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Washington State Parks


crouchcrew

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"Q. Why can't I transfer one Discover Pass among my vehicles?

A. The Discover Pass legislation specifically states the pass applies to one vehicle. "

 

What kind of answer is that? The state must think we are little kids, and the answer "because I told you so" should be good enough.

 

Why can't those idiots in control try to give a reason we won't be able to transfer one pass between all our own vehicles.

Because they can make more money by forcing you to buy a pass for each vehicle you own. We won't even go in to what happens if you sell that vehicle. It's all about the money.

More precisely, it's all about the lack of money.

 

It is a *vehicle* pass. As long as you are not using a registered motor vehicle as defined in RCW 27 46.04.320, you do not need a pass at all.

 

The need for the vehicle pass is lack of money. The idea that I need to buy three passes because I have three vehicles, is all about the money, and the greed of this state. I can only use one vehicle at a time. Requiring a pass for each of them is typical of this government.

 

I really don't like the idea of having the passes, but I can understand why they need them. But to try to grab $60 extra from me because I have different vehicles, and use them separately, is GREED.

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"Q. Why can't I transfer one Discover Pass among my vehicles?

A. The Discover Pass legislation specifically states the pass applies to one vehicle. "

 

What kind of answer is that? The state must think we are little kids, and the answer "because I told you so" should be good enough.

 

Why can't those idiots in control try to give a reason we won't be able to transfer one pass between all our own vehicles.

Because they can make more money by forcing you to buy a pass for each vehicle you own. We won't even go in to what happens if you sell that vehicle. It's all about the money.

More precisely, it's all about the lack of money.

 

It is a *vehicle* pass. As long as you are not using a registered motor vehicle as defined in RCW 27 46.04.320, you do not need a pass at all.

 

The need for the vehicle pass is lack of money. The idea that I need to buy three passes because I have three vehicles, is all about the money, and the greed of this state. I can only use one vehicle at a time. Requiring a pass for each of them is typical of this government.

 

I really don't like the idea of having the passes, but I can understand why they need them. But to try to grab $60 extra from me because I have different vehicles, and use them separately, is GREED.

I agree. With my National Parks and Federal Recreation Land Pass (old farts pass) it does not matter what car I am in. I can ride in some elses car and can have up to three other adults with me. They don't have to be over 65. This is an example of "it's not about the money".

 

I understand that there is a lack of money and this is a way to address the problem. I don't have a problem with that. But the implementation smells an awful like "its about the money". If I pay $30 for a pass to bring a vehicle into the park, it should not matter what or who's vehicle it is, I paid my $30 for vehicle admission.

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I really don't like the idea of having the passes, but I can understand why they need them. But to try to grab $60 extra from me because I have different vehicles, and use them separately, is GREED.

Not really. The per vehicle fee is the result of projecting how much revenue will be collected per biennium by charging $30.00 per vehicle. As a comparison, how much money does it cost to gas up one of your vehicles? Probably more than a Discovery Pass. Even if we include the handling and transaction fees.

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I really don't like the idea of having the passes, but I can understand why they need them. But to try to grab $60 extra from me because I have different vehicles, and use them separately, is GREED.

Not really. The per vehicle fee is the result of projecting how much revenue will be collected per biennium by charging $30.00 per vehicle. As a comparison, how much money does it cost to gas up one of your vehicles? Probably more than a Discovery Pass. Even if we include the handling and transaction fees.

 

What in the world does the cost of gas have to do with this? That is the kind of convoluted thinking that the leaders of this state cannot get away from.

 

It's not that I can't afford the pass, it just isn't right or necessary to charge for each vehicle you have.

 

There are very good reasons I have three vehicles, and no good reason for the state to stick me with three pass because of it.

 

By the way for those of you who say it's cheaper then filling your tank, or cheaper than a latte or cheaper than buying a beer on the weekend. You are the kind of people who want the state to tax you to the point you can no longer afford any of those.

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I really don't like the idea of having the passes, but I can understand why they need them. But to try to grab $60 extra from me because I have different vehicles, and use them separately, is GREED.

Not really. The per vehicle fee is the result of projecting how much revenue will be collected per biennium by charging $30.00 per vehicle. As a comparison, how much money does it cost to gas up one of your vehicles? Probably more than a Discovery Pass. Even if we include the handling and transaction fees.

And that is where the math breaks down. A family that has a couple cars that would have bought a pass if they could bring either car, (the small sedan Dad drives or the bigger van/suv Mom drives) depending on who all is going that day may well decide the county/town parks are fine and skip the state parks this year. If you use last year number to project what your going to get this year when you start charging people your going to end up with less than what you expect. I have two vehicles, a truck and a car. If I decide to help someone put on an event at a state park and want to use my truck to haul stuff, well sorry, I got the pass for my car.

 

And that is another point. Somewhat limited, but still a factor. Geocaching events held in state parks after July 1 will probably have a lot fewer people showing up than before, but I guess that will make for a more cozy event.

 

I still look at it as I paid the vehicle fee, what difference does it make which vehicle I bring? If you want me to buy a pass for each car even though I only use one at a time then it is a greedy money grab.

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What in the world does the cost of gas have to do with this? That is the kind of convoluted thinking that the leaders of this state cannot get away from.

 

It's not that I can't afford the pass, it just isn't right or necessary to charge for each vehicle you have.

 

There are very good reasons I have three vehicles, and no good reason for the state to stick me with three pass because of it.

 

By the way for those of you who say it's cheaper then filling your tank, or cheaper than a latte or cheaper than buying a beer on the weekend. You are the kind of people who want the state to tax you to the point you can no longer afford any of those.

Since when is a little perspective convoluted thinking? You may or may not factor in the cost of fuel every time you go somewhere, but it is something you have to consider when deciding how far to go and which vehicle to take. The same is now true when you are going where the passes are required.

 

Apparently there is an inverse relationship between the amount of taxes people actually pay and the amount of shrieking they do about it. Just wait until everything is required to be 100% self-sustainable like snow parks currently are. Then the shrieking will really begin.

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What in the world does the cost of gas have to do with this? That is the kind of convoluted thinking that the leaders of this state cannot get away from.

 

It's not that I can't afford the pass, it just isn't right or necessary to charge for each vehicle you have.

 

There are very good reasons I have three vehicles, and no good reason for the state to stick me with three pass because of it.

 

By the way for those of you who say it's cheaper then filling your tank, or cheaper than a latte or cheaper than buying a beer on the weekend. You are the kind of people who want the state to tax you to the point you can no longer afford any of those.

Since when is a little perspective convoluted thinking? You may or may not factor in the cost of fuel every time you go somewhere, but it is something you have to consider when deciding how far to go and which vehicle to take. The same is now true when you are going where the passes are required.

 

Apparently there is an inverse relationship between the amount of taxes people actually pay and the amount of shrieking they do about it. Just wait until everything is required to be 100% self-sustainable like snow parks currently are. Then the shrieking will really begin.

 

You and I will never agree, because you and I have a different view of what Government is supposed to be.

 

However, I really try to keep politics out of my Geocaching, and I'm not sure why I didn't on this matter. So you go ahead and buy your passes for all your vehicles and I will not buy any, but I'm done with this.

 

Other then to add, I do not factor in the cost of fuel when I am deciding which vehicle I need to take, or how far to go.

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You and I will never agree, because you and I have a different view of what Government is supposed to be.

You don't really have much to work with, so that is quite an assumption, but this is all pretty far from the topic at this point.

 

 

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The $30 annual Discover Pass is on sale. But it costs $35 when purchased from "a license dealer, by phone or online." The only other way to buy it is "When you renew your vehicle license (beginning fall of 2011)." :(

10% to pay for the WILD system adjustments, .77 FTE, etc, plus a $2.00 dealer fee. In other exciting news, we get a chance to pay more later. Better park in the shade.

 

If your license documents fade or become unreadable, please visit any licensed dealer to get replacements (a replacement fee may be charged).

 

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You bought an annual pass that isn't needed until July 1 and they gave you only 11½ months on it?

 

If your license documents fade or become unreadable, please visit any licensed dealer to get replacements (a replacement fee may be charged).
So we should take a scan of the pass so we can print a fresh copy whenever it fades. Hmmm ...
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The $30 annual Discover Pass is on sale. But it costs $35 when purchased from "a license dealer, by phone or online." The only other way to buy it is "When you renew your vehicle license (beginning fall of 2011)." :(

 

An article on why it is $35...Wait... Is the Discover Pass Really $35? Looks like the original proposal was $40 :blink: ...which then mean it probably would have been $46 (10% plus $2)...sheesh. BUT..It was proposed to go PER PERSON...not per vehicle. The per vehicle is probably a better choice especially for those with families.

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You bought an annual pass that isn't needed until July 1 and they gave you only 11½ months on it?

 

If your license documents fade or become unreadable, please visit any licensed dealer to get replacements (a replacement fee may be charged).
So we should take a scan of the pass so we can print a fresh copy whenever it fades. Hmmm ...

Considering its a thermal print, that would be about every 6 months. I think lamination will slow down the fade effect.

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You bought an annual pass that isn't needed until July 1 and they gave you only 11½ months on it?

 

If your license documents fade or become unreadable, please visit any licensed dealer to get replacements (a replacement fee may be charged).
So we should take a scan of the pass so we can print a fresh copy whenever it fades. Hmmm ...

Considering its a thermal print, that would be about every 6 months. I think lamination will slow down the fade effect.

Not sure how hot a laminator gets but if it gets hot enough it may actually darken the thermal paper during the lamination process.

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I feel like I need to mention that this is the Washington State Parks we're talking about. They are charging for use of the parks because the state has cut $10 million dollars out of the parks budget. If you are trying to cheat your way around paying your way, you are eliminating revenue that will be used to pay rangers' salaries, keep up the trails, etc.

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You bought an annual pass that isn't needed until July 1 and they gave you only 11½ months on it?

 

Nope. They gave us the full 12 months.

 

Your Discover Pass Purchase will be honored for the full 365 days of use it was purchased for. Continue to display your Annual Discover Pass as required. If you are contacted by Enforcement they will see that it was purchased prior to the effective date and honor it for the full 365 days.

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It's like the difference between buying a couple T-bones, a good 6pak for dinner or Top ramen and budlight! Just spent $10 bucks parking for a sounders game. skip your latte twice AND JUST PAY!!!!! or go hiking in downtown seattle good luck finding free parking!

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It's like the difference between buying a couple T-bones, a good 6pak for dinner or Top ramen and budlight! Just spent $10 bucks parking for a sounders game. skip your latte twice AND JUST PAY!!!!! or go hiking in downtown seattle good luck finding free parking!

 

I think that you miss the point; this is OUR land to begin with, we shouldn't have to pay again to access it. Next on the list will be a fee to access city and county parks. Then public beaches. Then maybe even walking on the sidewalk.

 

To use your logic correctly, the state government should end some of it's more frivolous expenses and instead invest the money into more beneficial programs. For one, promoting outdoor activities (exercise!) will increase the health of our population.

 

More to the topic: I spoke with a Federal Ranger the other day and they are very frustrated because they are going to have to deal with all the PO'd people that come to the ranger station only to learn that not only can't they buy the pass there but the rangers will not know where to direct them to purchase it.

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The real insult to me is that you can't buy the stupid thing without paying yet another fee. I love it, pay a fee to pay a fee.

You've never bought a hunting or fishing license, or a concert ticket before?

 

You actually can avoid the fees by purchasing a pass at the State Parks HQ in Olympia, or the regional offices in Burlington or East Wenatchee. They will even be open this weekend:

 

Olympia: 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Saturday, July 2 and Sunday, July 3, at Washington State Parks Headquarters: 1111 Israel Road SW, Olympia, WA 98504

 

East Wenatchee: 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. Saturday, July 2 and Sunday, July 3, at Washington State Parks Eastern Region Office: 270 Ninth Street N.E., Suite 200, East Wenatchee, WA 98802

 

Burlington: 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. Saturday, July 2 and Sunday, July 3, at State Parks Northwest Region Office: 220 N. Walnut St., Burlington, WA 98233

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Also, anyone with a disability pass now for camping, etc. is exempt from having to pay for the new pass.

 

I also read somewhere that its only people with disabilities that LIVE in the state of WA, anyone outside of WA who have a disability do not qualify and must buy a pass now they have lost my visits. If it were discounted, yes that's fine I don't mind but the fact they exclude out of state people with disabilities now that's just a shame cuz I have my golden access pass for COE/NPS

 

EDIT I had the wrong quote, so added the right quote I had intended to quote.

 

 

Edited by mynetdude
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There is no senior waver or discounts nor do I believe there is any disability waver for day use. Personally I say tax us and leave the parks open to all with no fee. With the current insane revenue craze everywhere I'm surprised they haven't installed red-light cameras and sold pot at the entrance booths.

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The real insult to me is that you can't buy the stupid thing without paying yet another fee. I love it, pay a fee to pay a fee.

You've never bought a hunting or fishing license...?

 

In my opinion, that's different because you're actually taking some of the resources. I won't have an issue with the fee if the were for hunting, fishing, cutting firewood for home heating, maybe even rock hunting. While I do use the roads and trails, this basic level of service, along with ownership of the land, is paid for through our taxes. Access to our lands should generally be free and unlimited (except when taking resources).

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The real insult to me is that you can't buy the stupid thing without paying yet another fee. I love it, pay a fee to pay a fee.

You've never bought a hunting or fishing license...?

 

In my opinion, that's different because you're actually taking some of the resources. I won't have an issue with the fee if the were for hunting, fishing, cutting firewood for home heating, maybe even rock hunting. While I do use the roads and trails, this basic level of service, along with ownership of the land, is paid for through our taxes. Access to our lands should generally be free and unlimited (except when taking resources).

 

Sorry, I realized that I might have missed the point on this one; are we talking about the fee, or the fee to pay the fee? :blink:

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There is no senior waver or discounts nor do I believe there is any disability waver for day use. Personally I say tax us and leave the parks open to all with no fee. With the current insane revenue craze everywhere I'm surprised they haven't installed red-light cameras and sold pot at the entrance booths.

 

Yeah I don't know about day use, there is verbaige that says that if you CAMP (and pay for camping, duh) you do not have to pay for day use at the park which you are staying at but you would need a pass for other parks nearby.

 

but here's what they say:

 

Disability Pass - No Charge

Good for 50 percent discount on nightly camping/moorage. Free watercraft launching and trailer dump. Valid all year round. Available for one-year (short-term disability) or five-year (permanent disability) periods. Offered to Washington state residents who are legally blind, profoundly deaf, developmentally disabled or who meet the disability definition used by the U.S. Social Security Administration.

 

Note: A Permanent Disability Parking Permit, issued by the Washington State Department of Licensing, also entitles you to the 50 percent disability discount on camping and moorage and waives the trailer dump and boat launch fee. Simply show your placard, license plate or issued wallet card along with matching I.D. directly to the park ranger.

 

Note about the parking permit, it seems to me you don't even need a pass if you have a WA state parking permit I don't know why they don't just honor any handicap parking permit from any state. Oregon does not offer discounts to disabled persons that live in the state but WA does for its residents? Kinda unfair; but that's ok! I am avoiding state parks that don't give a discount including Oregon state!

 

Edited by mynetdude
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The real insult to me is that you can't buy the stupid thing without paying yet another fee. I love it, pay a fee to pay a fee.

You've never bought a hunting or fishing license...?

 

In my opinion, that's different because you're actually taking some of the resources. I won't have an issue with the fee if the were for hunting, fishing, cutting firewood for home heating, maybe even rock hunting. While I do use the roads and trails, this basic level of service, along with ownership of the land, is paid for through our taxes. Access to our lands should generally be free and unlimited (except when taking resources).

 

Sorry, I realized that I might have missed the point on this one; are we talking about the fee, or the fee to pay the fee? :blink:

Both. The part you are quoting is about paying a transaction/dealer fee in addition to the regular fee. If our choice is between losing access or paying a fee, then I will reluctantly pay the fee. EraSeek has some pretty good ideas about about generating revenue, but beware the Eyeman.

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Also, anyone with a disability pass now for camping, etc. is exempt from having to pay for the new pass.

Not exactly true, I have a disability pass, and under the new rules it will only get me into some state parks, and campgrounds. It will not be good on the DNR lands.

 

Disabled veterans and other State Parks pass holders: Washington State Parks offers pass programs that reduce or waive camping, moorage and watercraft launch fees for limited-income senior citizens, disabled veterans, foster parents and people with disabilities who qualify for and receive a pass. These pass holders are not required to display the Discover Pass while visiting state parks but are required to display the Discover Pass while on WDFW or DNR lands. While on state park land, display your State Parks free or reduced pass on your dashboard in lieu of the Discover Pass.

Edited by uxorious
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"Washington State Parks offers pass programs that reduce or waive camping, moorage and watercraft launch fees..."

This is I believe just for those activities or rather if you have a pass of some kind for those activities then you don't need to pay the $10 or the Discovery pass in the state parks. I called the discovery pass people and they said no breaks on the discovery pass. Full price for seniors.

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Reluctantly bought mine today (I already have the fishing license and donated $3 when my tabs were renewed). I went in to the Fish and Wildlife headquarters and they still charged me the $35. They said the only way to get the $30 price is directly from a State Park Ranger. They have pre-purchased a coupon book type thing and they tear one of these out and give them to you for $30. However I called St Edward state park and they said they were all out.

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:unsure: Interesting fact......... 07-01-2011, Little Si Parking area & Mt Si Parking, signs are up and say Discovery Pass Required.

 

I roamed in to check on all these REQUIRED PASSES. How about 80% did not have them and did not see any TICKETS on those without the PASS.

 

Just maybe the 1st was a freebie day.

 

Today, 07-02-2011, will be a true test as Saturday Morning these lots are packed, we shall see if anything is done to those without a PASS. <_<

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:unsure: Interesting fact......... 07-01-2011, Little Si Parking area & Mt Si Parking, signs are up and say Discovery Pass Required.

 

I roamed in to check on all these REQUIRED PASSES. How about 80% did not have them and did not see any TICKETS on those without the PASS.

 

Just maybe the 1st was a freebie day.

 

Today, 07-02-2011, will be a true test as Saturday Morning these lots are packed, we shall see if anything is done to those without a PASS. <_<

There was an news article I caught that indicated that they were going to give the 4th of July weekend a free pass as it were and start ticketing on Tuesday.

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:unsure: Interesting fact......... 07-01-2011, Little Si Parking area & Mt Si Parking, signs are up and say Discovery Pass Required.

 

I roamed in to check on all these REQUIRED PASSES. How about 80% did not have them and did not see any TICKETS on those without the PASS.

 

Just maybe the 1st was a freebie day.

 

Today, 07-02-2011, will be a true test as Saturday Morning these lots are packed, we shall see if anything is done to those without a PASS. <_<

 

I was nearby at Mailbox Peak on the 1st. I thought the Discovery Pass was only for State Parks and did not know one would be needed for Mailbox Peak. When we got to the parking lot there was no sign indicating that a pass was required. Like what EraSeek said, it's confusing sometimes figuring out who operates the land. When we got back down the mountain there was a sign at both the gate and the kiosk at the trail head. No ticket on the car fortunately. Perhaps the 1st was a freebie day because they had not yet officially put up all the signs?

Edited by tsunami_KNUW
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Here's part of a log today from the "Room with a view" cache at Cape Disappointment State Park (maybe they just got a warning): "Best cache I've been to yet. My only advise is not to forget to pay for parking. The Rangers are quick to ticket, but it was worth it."

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Sometimes its hard to tell what is DNR, what is Fish and Wildlife, what is State Park, and what is Federal. Very confusing! Not altogether fair.

 

It is very confusing. We are attending a Geocaching event next weekend at Rock Creek Park in Stevenson, WA. I spent quite some time last night checking the web for some indication of whether or not we'll need a pass to park there. I couldn't find anything other than it isn't a state park. But is it a "wildlife area" or a "recreation site"?

 

I did email the event organizers pf the event but haven't heard back yet. I guess I shouldn't assume we won't need to pay for a day pass but it sure would be nice to know in advance. *sigh*

 

I'm all for supporting the state parks that I use and enjoy but whoever was in charge of public relations and information on the website needs some serious retraining.

 

Also...if I purchase a pass for the year and then wind up selling my car then I'm just SOL? Doesn't seem fair. <_<

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We were out for a Sunday Monday drive today and drove through a couple of Washington State Parks and the only Discover Pass I saw was the one on my dashboard. Was at Tiger Mtn on Sunday and like today the only pass I saw was the one on my dashboard. Interesting note, the gate to the upper parking area at Tiger Mtn Summit off Hwy18 is locked but they have signs up that the Discover Pass required to park in that lot too, too bad you can't get to it.

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:unsure: Draw a line through the current plate number keeping it visible yet voided, then put on the NEW Plate number. you even put a note below explaining you sold the vehicle and you should not have a problem. DMV will have the record of date of sale to cover you.

 

From the articles I've read this won't be allowed. One fee per vehicle. They don't care if you sell your car. If you alter or mar the pass, it becomes invalid.

 

I thought about using it as a selling point on the car, but I live in Oregon so this may or may not be a benefit the buyer would care about.

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I want to make sure I understand this correctly.

 

For Washington State Lands we need to have the Discover Pass, and on National Forests Lands (inside Washington State) we need the Northwest Forest Pass. And if we display the wrong pass we can still get a ticket just as if we did not have the correct pass.

 

With all of this in mind, I have two questions:

 

1. Are there other passes that we should know about if we are just geocaching for the day.

 

2. Is there one pass that covers all State and Federal lands inside the state.

 

Tobias

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I want to make sure I understand this correctly.

 

For Washington State Lands we need to have the Discover Pass, and on National Forests Lands (inside Washington State) we need the Northwest Forest Pass. And if we display the wrong pass we can still get a ticket just as if we did not have the correct pass.

 

With all of this in mind, I have two questions:

 

1. Are there other passes that we should know about if we are just geocaching for the day.

 

2. Is there one pass that covers all State and Federal lands inside the state.

To cover everything, you need to purchase a Federal interagency pass and a Discovery Pass.

 

America The Beautiful - The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass

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We are attending a Geocaching event next weekend at Rock Creek Park in Stevenson, WA. I spent quite some time last night checking the web for some indication of whether or not we'll need a pass to park there. I couldn't find anything other than it isn't a state park. But is it a "wildlife area" or a "recreation site"?

No. Rock Creek Park is owned by the county, not the state. http://www.skamaniacounty.org/facilities-rec/homepage/parks/

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We are attending a Geocaching event next weekend at Rock Creek Park in Stevenson, WA. I spent quite some time last night checking the web for some indication of whether or not we'll need a pass to park there. I couldn't find anything other than it isn't a state park. But is it a "wildlife area" or a "recreation site"?

No. Rock Creek Park is owned by the county, not the state. http://www.skamaniacounty.org/facilities-rec/homepage/parks/

 

Thanks klossner. I did actually a replay from the event organizers saying there would be no fee for attendees.

 

Looking forward to caching the Gorge on Saturday! B)

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Well, thanks to jerks like me, the Discover Pass looks like it's going to be a huge FAIL for the state.

 

Disappointing sales of a new parking pass in its first three months leave the state parks system staring at an uncertain future. Lawmakers have mostly cut parks off from taxpayers’ help – regardless of whether the new $30 annual parking fees fill the gap. If the program fails in the long run, the parks agency says it would have to find new money or close most of the state’s 116 parks.

 

Popularity of the Discover Pass is sure to vary with the seasons, and maybe its first spring will bring a burst of sales that didn’t come after its July 1 debut.

 

But parks officials and lawmakers suspect they have also lost potential buyers because of an unpopular feature: Passes can’t be transferred from one car to another. Expect the Legislature to tackle that issue this winter.

 

“I heard from dozens of people personally that just said ‘I’m not buying it,’ ” said state Sen. Kevin Ranker, who is writing a proposed update to the law he sponsored that created the pass.

 

Complaints also come from outdoor enthusiasts surprised by extra charges on some sales or by the extent of the lands that are no longer free to the public.

 

Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/11/12/1903830/discover-pass-not-raising-the.html#ixzz1dj1tesTi

 

...MORE

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Jerks like you?

 

We bought one pass but I refuse to buy one for each of our vehicles. If we know we are going to a Discover Pass trail-head, we always take the same vehicle.

 

Looks like we aren't the only ones annoyed by the pay-per-vehicle policy of the pass.

+1. I only have one car but I am still annoyed by that provision, since I sometimes carpool and am the pass-holder.

 

But I bought an annual Discover pass, because the reality is, our parks don't have funding and if we want them open and maintained, the money has to come from somewhere. WSGA also helped Iron Horse SP by buying $1500 worth of Discover day passes for the Going APE event.

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