Coordinates way off

[+geocat_]

I am used to the "30 ft rule" with a GPS only getting you close to a hide and I can live with that. But there is a hide (http://coord.info/GC2TMX1) near me which is nearly 3/4 of a mile off. What I am saying is that the posted coordinates are .69 miles from the actual hide in a straight line! It was the CO's first hide but now that this discrepancy has been pointed out to him, he still has not changed the coordinates. Luckily others have posted the proper coordinates. What I was wondering was if others have experienced this type of problem. A situation in which the actual hide is literally hundreds or more feet from the posted coordinates. I posted a "needs maintenance" log and others are kind of letting him to fix it as well. Just curious how often and to what degree this goes on.

 

[+StarBrand]

Mistakes happen.

 

Send a polite note with instructions for fixing the coordinates (essentially - contact the reviewer for that distance). Let them know the importance of good coords.

 

If no action - do not hesitate to put a NA log type on it with an explicit reason.

[+LukeTrocity]

I wanna know how anyone found it when its that far off? Thats some serious searching.

 

Edit: read the logs...gg guys!

Edited May 17, 2011 by LukeTrocity

[Pup Patrol]

Calling Keystone, Keystone please pick up your message at the white phone.

 

[+luvvinbird]

I've run into one or two that were found no where near the posted co-ords. Going through the logs and picking up hints or even new coordinates someone posted, enabled a find. In some cases I noticed that the CO's had changed the numbers but others still have the incorrect ones listed despite numerous log entries indicating the inaccuracy. Just another case of an uncaring cache owner. Post your concern and move on to the next cache.

[+ngrrfan]

Let a reviewer figure out what should be done. Many times they will contact the CO to correct the coords or will archive it.

[+Bear and Ragged]

A new cacher posted his first cache.

Coordinates were 58 miles wrong.

 

The joys of living in the UK with the Greenwich Meridian, he got his East/West mixed up.

[+Spraginator]

How did anyone find it in the first place being 3/4 mile off? I would post a needs archived if the CO has not responded to NM logs

[Andronicus]

I am supprised it took till the 4th finder for someone to post correct coordinants. Also, the problem with this is that after a few finds, the correct coordinates will drop off the bottom of a PQ. Where does that leave searchers?

[+ras_oscar]

Obviously there was sufficient information on the cache page to make the find, unless the CO gave the first finder a spoiler hint. There are some caches that are "offset caches. The coordinates on the cache page list a start point and the page lists a series of directions that lead to seeker from there to the cache. If such a hide was mislisted as a traditional it could very likely lead to such a coords discrepency.

 

Or it could be a CO that is trying to derive coords from google earth.

 

If the hide is on the side of a steep hill, distances are greatly magnified. It may be necessary to travel 30 feet on the ground to register a coords change of 20 feet. (think hypotenuse)

 

If the hide is more than 20 feet from the PC I usually include the distance in my found it log and move on to the next one. Something like "found container 75 feet from posted coordinates" that alerts future seekers that widening the search radius may be required. It also verifies that the container is there.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I'm surprised that nobody has posted a NA log. Apr. 21/Apr. 29 NM logs, but everyone seem lackadaisical about posting a NA. I guess it's called "pass the buck".

[+fuzziebear3]

I am used to the "30 ft rule" with a GPS only getting you close to a hide and I can live with that. But there is a hide (http://coord.info/GC2TMX1) near me which is nearly 3/4 of a mile off. What I am saying is that the posted coordinates are .69 miles from the actual hide in a straight line! It was the CO's first hide but now that this discrepancy has been pointed out to him, he still has not changed the coordinates. Luckily others have posted the proper coordinates. What I was wondering was if others have experienced this type of problem. A situation in which the actual hide is literally hundreds or more feet from the posted coordinates. I posted a "needs maintenance" log and others are kind of letting him to fix it as well. Just curious how often and to what degree this goes on.

 

Haha ... I read this post and thought - gee, that sounds just like one in my area. Oh, I see, it is the exact one I was thinking of! Hi geocating!!

 

I had hoped with someone posting the correct coordinates in the log, that the CO would be reminded to update them on the cache page, especially since the legwork was done for him. I don't know if he just doesn't know how, or just doesn't feel it is necessary.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

All the more reason to change the "Needs Archived" log type to be "Needs Reviewer Attention." I went ahead and logged NA since no one else seems willing to contact a reviewer about it.

[Pup Patrol]

All the more reason to change the "Needs Archived" log type to be "Needs Reviewer Attention." I went ahead and logged NA since no one else seems willing to contact a reviewer about it.

 

I was hoping that Keystone would have seen this thread before now.

 

Guess he knows about this cache now.

[+Shrektrician]

Geocaching is being ruined by noobs who get coords with a cell phone. I'd say 30% of all new hides in the Bay Area have rotten coords. I say you can't hide a cache until you have at least 100 finds.

[Pup Patrol]

Geocaching is being ruined by noobs who get coords with a cell phone. I'd say 30% of all new hides in the Bay Area have rotten coords. I say you can't hide a cache until you have at least 100 finds.

 

Not sure how finding 100 skirt lifters and other micros will help.

[+skraeling]

Geocaching is being ruined ... coords with a cell phone...

 

Those that insist on using cell phones to get coords should learn how to use google maps/earth (or other online maps) to verify those coords. We have had a lot of new caches out here done by people with cell phones - coords are always off by 50+ feet (sometimes well into the + ). When you get the coords, plug them in to google maps - you will get something like this. Note the green arrow. If that isnt where the cache is supposed to be, add/subtract from the coords as needed until that arrow is where the cache is.

Edited May 17, 2011 by skraeling

[+kpanko]

You can make the green arrow go away by adding (something) after the coordinates.

 

Like this: link

Edited May 17, 2011 by kpanko

[+Panther&Pine]

Geocaching is being ruined ... coords with a cell phone...

 

Those that insist on using cell phones to get coords should learn how to use google maps/earth (or other online maps) to verify those coords. We have had a lot of new caches out here done by people with cell phones - coords are always off by 50+ feet (sometimes well into the + ). When you get the coords, plug them in to google maps - you will get something like this. Note the green arrow. If that isnt where the cache is supposed to be, add/subtract from the coords as needed until that arrow is where the cache is.

Depending on where you live that might be accurate, but for many places that is not true. Here one part of town is off by a few feet, maybe ten, another part of town Google is off by around 200 feet.

Plus the coords for a hide are supposed to be obtained with a GPS unit.

[+niraD]

Not sure how finding 100 skirt lifters and other micros will help.

Or an hour or two on a numbers run trail.

[+Panther&Pine]

Not sure how finding 100 skirt lifters and other micros will help.

Or an hour or two on a numbers run trail.

Or impossible depending on where you live.

[+DanOCan]

I had a similar situation recently.

http://coord.info/GC2BBRM

 

Two Finds, both from the same account a day before publication so I assume that person was with the cache owner when it was hidden.

 

13 DNFs since then and no one decided to pull the trigger on more than a NM log until I did it -- a violation of my armchair SBA log rule. Let the reviewer deal with it is the best answer.

[+Doctroid]

We have had a lot of new caches out here done by people with cell phones - coords are always off by 50+ feet (sometimes well into the + ).

 

And you know these are all cell phone users how? And you know no accurate coords are from cell phone users how?

[+Team GPSaxophone]

a violation of my armchair SBA log rule. Let the reviewer deal with it is the best answer.

I don't armchair SBA often but every once in a while a cache just needs reviewer attention and it's the quickest way to get it.

[+geocat_]

I am used to the "30 ft rule" with a GPS only getting you close to a hide and I can live with that. But there is a hide (http://coord.info/GC2TMX1) near me which is nearly 3/4 of a mile off. What I am saying is that the posted coordinates are .69 miles from the actual hide in a straight line! It was the CO's first hide but now that this discrepancy has been pointed out to him, he still has not changed the coordinates. Luckily others have posted the proper coordinates. What I was wondering was if others have experienced this type of problem. A situation in which the actual hide is literally hundreds or more feet from the posted coordinates. I posted a "needs maintenance" log and others are kind of letting him to fix it as well. Just curious how often and to what degree this goes on.

 

Haha ... I read this post and thought - gee, that sounds just like one in my area. Oh, I see, it is the exact one I was thinking of! Hi geocating!!

 

I had hoped with someone posting the correct coordinates in the log, that the CO would be reminded to update them on the cache page, especially since the legwork was done for him. I don't know if he just doesn't know how, or just doesn't feel it is necessary.

 

Hahaha! Hey fuzzybear! I guess we are just too nice and tried to give a gentle nudge when we most likely needed to give a shove, haha Someone posted a NA log today and reminded me that if an edit moves a cache's coordinates more than 528 ft then it needs to be edited by a moderator. I wonder if the CO actually tried to fix it and was unable (doubtful or he should have left a log) or just doesn't care (more likely since he doesn't bother to answer my emails about this problem). Sadly, it's a case of a newbie not knowing what he is doing and not seeking help or heeding advice.

[+geocat_]

All the more reason to change the "Needs Archived" log type to be "Needs Reviewer Attention." I went ahead and logged NA since no one else seems willing to contact a reviewer about it.

 

I guess you are the "someone" who posted the NA. Thanks! I actually found this one on my way to work this morning so I can start ignoring it a bit more, but I just think it is sad when COs have/develop a sense of apathy.

 

 

[+geocat_]

Thanks for all the thoughts on this topic. We'll see how this joker responds to the inevitable reprimand from keystone. My guess is this will be the last time we hear from the CO. I am wagering he is in it for his 6 or 7 finds and then will move on to other hobbies.

 

Similarly, I have been frustrated with another cacher in my area who has almost 6000 finds and over 100 hides. He has a good history of some really excellent hides and seems to be well-respected in my area. He seems to be on a hiatus or has simply stopped geocaching for the last 310 days. Many of his hides are missing and I have posted several NM logs and a few NA logs. I don't want to appear like I am disrespecting him since he has a good reputation around here, but what is proper etiquette in this type of situation? Is is proper to do a NM log, wait a couple weeks and then do a NA log? Lastly, would it be considered rude or otherwise unacceptable to place a cache on or very near a site where I have done a NA log and the cache gets archived?

[+Coldgears]

Geocaching is being ruined by noobs who get coords with a cell phone. I'd say 30% of all new hides in the Bay Area have rotten coords. I say you can't hide a cache until you have at least 100 finds.

Biggest load of BULL i've ever heard. Last saturday I spent the entire day geocaching and chatting at an event. The group I went out with to geocache with said at one of the caches, "wow, great coords, it says it's four feet from here", mine said it was 5 feet away. Then, at another cache, he said, "Wow, another cache with great coords, 0 feet" my GPS also said 0 feet away.

 

He had a handheld GPS, I had my cell phone.

[+popokiiti]

a violation of my armchair SBA log rule. Let the reviewer deal with it is the best answer.

I don't armchair SBA often but every once in a while a cache just needs reviewer attention and it's the quickest way to get it.

Had to do it myself, almost a year after our DNFs on a cache.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Geocaching is being ruined by noobs who get coords with a cell phone. I'd say 30% of all new hides in the Bay Area have rotten coords. I say you can't hide a cache until you have at least 100 finds.

Biggest load of BULL i've ever heard. Last saturday I spent the entire day geocaching and chatting at an event. The group I went out with to geocache with said at one of the caches, "wow, great coords, it says it's four feet from here", mine said it was 5 feet away. Then, at another cache, he said, "Wow, another cache with great coords, 0 feet" my GPS also said 0 feet away.

 

He had a handheld GPS, I had my cell phone.

Have to agree with Coldgears on this one. I believe the overall problem with bad coords is a lack of understanding AND/OR caring. True, the guidelines say that a person should have twenty finds before placing a hide, but some nØØbs make very nice hides, just as some don't -- ditto on seasoned geocachers.

 

The highlighted statement is just a bit into left field, or maybe it's just a plain foul ball... IMO.

[+skraeling]

We have had a lot of new caches out here done by people with cell phones - coords are always off by 50+ feet (sometimes well into the + ).

 

And you know these are all cell phone users how? And you know no accurate coords are from cell phone users how?

here is the answer you are seeking: I've actually met some of the hiders and when I ask what kind of GPS they are using, the answer is "my phone"... and more often than not, the coords are off.

Edited May 18, 2011 by skraeling

[+Manville Possum]

I have never found a phone hide at the posted coordinates.

[+Happy Humphrey]

I've had the same experience with a new cacher posting coordinates about 200 feet to 3/4 mile out (on three caches). I'm not sure how it happened as the CO didn't respond to logs pointing out the discrepancy. Luckily in each case the location could be surmised using pointers in the description and hints, although there was a lot of unnecessary wandering about required.

[+luvvinbird]

Can you "average" coordinates on a cell phone? I can on my Garmin handhelds. Just curious.

[+Manville Possum]

I've had the same experience with a new cacher posting coordinates about 200 feet to 3/4 mile out (on three caches). I'm not sure how it happened as the CO didn't respond to logs pointing out the discrepancy. Luckily in each case the location could be surmised using pointers in the description and hints, although there was a lot of unnecessary wandering about required.

We have a cache in our area that has been around science 2004 and has only been found a few times. When I went to log my DNF I saw a note from the CO that says to use another users coordinates, .2 mile away. This is no help for those of us who download to our GPS unit.

[+fuzziebear3]

Similarly, I have been frustrated with another cacher in my area who has almost 6000 finds and over 100 hides. He has a good history of some really excellent hides and seems to be well-respected in my area. He seems to be on a hiatus or has simply stopped geocaching for the last 310 days. Many of his hides are missing and I have posted several NM logs and a few NA logs. I don't want to appear like I am disrespecting him since he has a good reputation around here, but what is proper etiquette in this type of situation? Is is proper to do a NM log, wait a couple weeks and then do a NA log? Lastly, would it be considered rude or otherwise unacceptable to place a cache on or very near a site where I have done a NA log and the cache gets archived?

 

Not sure what is up with g---e, but since he hasn't done any caching in more than 6 months, I think you are fine to take a space he previously used. I think some of his caches are being maintained by the community. If not, if they get archived and then a new one is placed, all the better, a spot that we can revisit and find again.

[+geocat_]

Similarly, I have been frustrated with another cacher in my area who has almost 6000 finds and over 100 hides. He has a good history of some really excellent hides and seems to be well-respected in my area. He seems to be on a hiatus or has simply stopped geocaching for the last 310 days. Many of his hides are missing and I have posted several NM logs and a few NA logs. I don't want to appear like I am disrespecting him since he has a good reputation around here, but what is proper etiquette in this type of situation? Is is proper to do a NM log, wait a couple weeks and then do a NA log? Lastly, would it be considered rude or otherwise unacceptable to place a cache on or very near a site where I have done a NA log and the cache gets archived?

 

Not sure what is up with g---e, but since he hasn't done any caching in more than 6 months, I think you are fine to take a space he previously used. I think some of his caches are being maintained by the community. If not, if they get archived and then a new one is placed, all the better, a spot that we can revisit and find again.

 

Thanks fuzzybear3. You mean I wasn't vague enough for you to not figure out who I was talking about, lol!?! I might place a hide or two on previously claimed areas because they are nice places for a hide which is why he did them in the first place. I agree that we need more finds especially since the rain can't last forever!!!

 

 

[+va griz]

A while back we got a notification for a new cache. It was clear from the description that it was supposed to be a parking lot hide at a brand new Walmart. The only problem was the coords put you in the middle of the woods where there wasn't even a hint of a new road, much less a store. I figured it had to be a mistake and even looked for new Walmarts that were directly in line with the coords but didn't see anything close that matched up. Not too long after that they fixed the coordinates, they were off by exactly one degree, so that put it over 50 miles away as the crow flies. Separated by the Chesapeake Bay, it was about 150 miles driving. Turns out nobody looked for it for over a week because the notification is based on the first published coords, so it was a while before anybody realized it was there.

[+Doctroid]

Can you "average" coordinates on a cell phone? I can on my Garmin handhelds. Just curious.

There's an Android app for just that purpose — I haven't played with it much so can't say how well it works or how useful it is.

[+geocat_]

Well the reviewer fixed the coordinates today.

 

Coordinates changed from:

N 39° 38.564 W 084° 17.254

 

Coordinates changed to:

N 39° 38.017 W 084° 16.930

 

Distance from original: 3657.1 feet or 1114.7 meters.

I am still wondering how someone can be that far off. Probably just entered the coords wrong when he created the listing. But how? Look at them. Not even entering one or two digits incorrectly can get you those goofy coordinates he used. Oh well....

On a separate but similar note, I went out to try for a FTF on this cache (http://coord.info/GC2WFW0) and found a similar situation to the cache mentioned in my original post. Here's my log....

Well I ran out to try for a FTF and when I got to the posted coordinates, I was in the middle of the street in a residential neighborhood. I checked around but to no avail. Thinking of the name, I searched for the closest Assembly of God church and, using the hint, checked as many of the obvious spots as I could with no luck. I wonder where it is?

I wonder if it's going to be deja vu all over again???

 

Edited May 20, 2011 by geocating

[+fuzziebear3]

On a separate but similar note, I went out to try for a FTF on this cache (http://coord.info/GC2WFW0) and found a similar situation to the cache mentioned in my original post. Here's my log....

Well I ran out to try for a FTF and when I got to the posted coordinates, I was in the middle of the street in a residential neighborhood. I checked around but to no avail. Thinking of the name, I searched for the closest Assembly of God church and, using the hint, checked as many of the obvious spots as I could with no luck. I wonder where it is?

I wonder if it's going to be deja vu all over again???

 

 

Yep, that is what I think. I think Luke--- and Jake--- are friends, they both have minimal finds and this is each of their first hides. Either they really don't understand that they are supposed to make the coordinates as accurate as they can, or they are playing some other kind of game. (like trying to see who will find it based on name/description/hint, not coordinates; or just seeing how wrong it can be).

 

Both caches are/were listed at coordinates in the middle of a road, and not anywhere near their actual location. I think this one is also about .7 miles away, really not even close. And again, after someone gets good coordinates it will require a reviewer to fix it.

[+geocat_]

On a separate but similar note, I went out to try for a FTF on this cache (http://coord.info/GC2WFW0) and found a similar situation to the cache mentioned in my original post. Here's my log....

Well I ran out to try for a FTF and when I got to the posted coordinates, I was in the middle of the street in a residential neighborhood. I checked around but to no avail. Thinking of the name, I searched for the closest Assembly of God church and, using the hint, checked as many of the obvious spots as I could with no luck. I wonder where it is?

I wonder if it's going to be deja vu all over again???

 

 

Yep, that is what I think. I think Luke--- and Jake--- are friends, they both have minimal finds and this is each of their first hides. Either they really don't understand that they are supposed to make the coordinates as accurate as they can, or they are playing some other kind of game. (like trying to see who will find it based on name/description/hint, not coordinates; or just seeing how wrong it can be).

 

Both caches are/were listed at coordinates in the middle of a road, and not anywhere near their actual location. I think this one is also about .7 miles away, really not even close. And again, after someone gets good coordinates it will require a reviewer to fix it.

 

I agree with all you said fuzzybear3. I just sent a message to Luke to see if he is just confused or if he is playing games with us. If he needs help, I don't mind giving it to him, but honestly, I don't see how you can be off by nearly a mile in your posted coordinates. My bet is that they are up to no good. Seems like spring is the time of year for newbies both good and bad.

[+fuzziebear3]

On a separate but similar note, I went out to try for a FTF on this cache (http://coord.info/GC2WFW0) and found a similar situation to the cache mentioned in my original post. Here's my log....

Well I ran out to try for a FTF and when I got to the posted coordinates, I was in the middle of the street in a residential neighborhood. I checked around but to no avail. Thinking of the name, I searched for the closest Assembly of God church and, using the hint, checked as many of the obvious spots as I could with no luck. I wonder where it is?

I wonder if it's going to be deja vu all over again???

 

 

Yep, that is what I think. I think Luke--- and Jake--- are friends, they both have minimal finds and this is each of their first hides. Either they really don't understand that they are supposed to make the coordinates as accurate as they can, or they are playing some other kind of game. (like trying to see who will find it based on name/description/hint, not coordinates; or just seeing how wrong it can be).

 

Both caches are/were listed at coordinates in the middle of a road, and not anywhere near their actual location. I think this one is also about .7 miles away, really not even close. And again, after someone gets good coordinates it will require a reviewer to fix it.

 

I agree with all you said fuzzybear3. I just sent a message to Luke to see if he is just confused or if he is playing games with us. If he needs help, I don't mind giving it to him, but honestly, I don't see how you can be off by nearly a mile in your posted coordinates. My bet is that they are up to no good. Seems like spring is the time of year for newbies both good and bad.

 

Yes, I scouted both areas this morning, and dropped the NA on the cache listing.

[+fuzziebear3]

Yes, I scouted both areas this morning, and dropped the NA on the cache listing.

 

Which sunk like a lead balloon. Keystone said the cache owner said the coordinates were correct when the cache was submitted. Bah.

[+kpanko]

The Google map seems to confirm what you are saying.

 

Edit: Oops, I wanted the map to show both the cache location, and the church location at the same time, but the link I used is not showing the cache location. So, that is this map where Mound Ave and Mound Rd come together.

Edited May 20, 2011 by kpanko

[+Sol seaker]

Geocaching is being ruined by noobs who get coords with a cell phone. I'd say 30% of all new hides in the Bay Area have rotten coords. I say you can't hide a cache until you have at least 100 finds.

Biggest load of BULL i've ever heard. Last saturday I spent the entire day geocaching and chatting at an event. The group I went out with to geocache with said at one of the caches, "wow, great coords, it says it's four feet from here", mine said it was 5 feet away. Then, at another cache, he said, "Wow, another cache with great coords, 0 feet" my GPS also said 0 feet away.

 

He had a handheld GPS, I had my cell phone.

 

Cell phones find them much better than they hide them.

 

As I've said before, after trying to find some caches from a newbie who placed them with her phone, I went around with her to her caches and got coords for her with my GPS.

 

Her caches were sometimes more than 100 feet off with her phone coords.

[+Sol seaker]

This particular cache has been fixed by Keystone. Here's his log:

 

Update Coordinates May 19 by Keystone (1 found)

 

N 39° 38.017 W 084° 16.930

 

Coordinates changed from:

N 39° 38.564 W 084° 17.254

 

Coordinates changed to:

N 39° 38.017 W 084° 16.930

 

Distance from original: 3657.1 feet or 1114.7 meters.

 

I am updating the coordinates to match the correct location as reported by prior finders. The corrected spot appears to meet the listing guidelines.

 

Cache owner, please see the following articles in the Groundspeak Knowledge Books:

"Editing Your Cache Coordinates" (visit link)

Listing Guidelines - "Geocache Maintenance" (visit link)

 

Regards,

Keystone

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

[+fuzziebear3]

This particular cache has been fixed by Keystone. Here's his log:

 

Update Coordinates May 19 by Keystone (1 found)

 

N 39° 38.017 W 084° 16.930

 

Coordinates changed from:

N 39° 38.564 W 084° 17.254

 

Coordinates changed to:

N 39° 38.017 W 084° 16.930

 

Distance from original: 3657.1 feet or 1114.7 meters.

 

I am updating the coordinates to match the correct location as reported by prior finders. The corrected spot appears to meet the listing guidelines.

 

Cache owner, please see the following articles in the Groundspeak Knowledge Books:

"Editing Your Cache Coordinates" (visit link)

Listing Guidelines - "Geocache Maintenance" (visit link)

 

Regards,

Keystone

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

 

Nope, that was the first one it happened on, called Mound Tech. That one has been resolved.

The new issue is with this one, called assembly of God

[+fuzziebear3]

Cell phones find them much better than they hide them.

 

As I've said before, after trying to find some caches from a newbie who placed them with her phone, I went around with her to her caches and got coords for her with my GPS.

 

Her caches were sometimes more than 100 feet off with her phone coords.

 

And the magnitude of what we are talking about here is being lost. We are not talking about 100 feet, we are talking about .7 miles (3700 ft).

[+dfx]

And the magnitude of what we are talking about here is being lost. We are not talking about 100 feet, we are talking about .7 miles (3700 ft).

 

Which can still happen if they take the coordinates without actually having a GPS fix. Been there, done that (with geotagged photos taken by the phone).