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KaneNorth

A little rant about cito and caches

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Does anyone else sometimes feel like taking an entire cache and tossing it in the garbage? Yesterday a friend and I were caching and we lost count of how many caches in the area are in such bad shape that they could be considered trash. Water filled caches and logs so wet its nearly impossible to sign without tearing up the pages. It really annoys me when people think containers like the blue lid ziploc plastics and icecream buckets are excellent ideas for a cache. I find it hard to keep myself from leaving nasty comments venting my disgust at their containers which are similar quality to the often surrounding trash... And when the cache owner actually admits to doing maintenance it more often than not just involves wrapping it in a grocery bag or garbage bag. I feel like showing up at their homes and throwing a pelican case or a good ammo box at their face with all the force I can muster. Id like to just do a CITO of my area and start tossing caches and i'm sure most of you feel the same way. Although I currently have no caches of my own, over the summer I will be placing some and they'll be pelican cases or similar. I hope some of the local cachers with bad caches see these and feel embarrassed and it motivates them to replace their caches or toss them in the garbage. :mad:

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Does anyone else sometimes feel like taking an entire cache and tossing it in the garbage? Yesterday a friend and I were caching and we lost count of how many caches in the area are in such bad shape that they could be considered trash. Water filled caches and logs so wet its nearly impossible to sign without tearing up the pages. It really annoys me when people think containers like the blue lid ziploc plastics and icecream buckets are excellent ideas for a cache. I find it hard to keep myself from leaving nasty comments venting my disgust at their containers which are similar quality to the often surrounding trash... And when the cache owner actually admits to doing maintenance it more often than not just involves wrapping it in a grocery bag or garbage bag. I feel like showing up at their homes and throwing a pelican case or a good ammo box at their face with all the force I can muster. Id like to just do a CITO of my area and start tossing caches and i'm sure most of you feel the same way. Although I currently have no caches of my own, over the summer I will be placing some and they'll be pelican cases or similar. I hope some of the local cachers with bad caches see these and feel embarrassed and it motivates them to replace their caches or toss them in the garbage. :mad:

 

You can't expect every cache you see to be a plain bison tube or an ammo can or a lockn lock. The logs will get wet after a few months, so the CO is not to blame.

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Feels good to vent doesn't it? Always put a needs maintenance note on a cache like that, and if you have a local geocaching group with a forums, bring it up there, where the guilty parties will read it. There are ways to get your point across in a log, without sounding mean and nasty. You can describe how gross the cache was in the most polite way, and warn other finders about the condition of the cache. And rescue all trackables left in these caches, before they rust away!

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Does anyone else sometimes feel like taking an entire cache and tossing it in the garbage? Yesterday a friend and I were caching and we lost count of how many caches in the area are in such bad shape that ...

You can't expect every cache you see to be a plain bison tube or an ammo can or a lockn lock. The logs will get wet after a few months, so the CO is not to blame.

 

Certainly the CO bears the responsibility if not the blame. Weather is a factor in wet logs. Knowing that why do some cachers use such flimsy plastic as a container when creating a cache? I have come upon more than one cache that was basically just a zip lock bag or a discarded cool whip container. These items tend to get brittle with cold and to deteriorate in sunlight.

 

The CO who elected to use such an inferior cache container probably is to blame.

 

We recently cached up the east coast from Florida to NJ and encountered quite a few caches with creative, weather-proof and critter proof containers. The workmanship and creativity added to the fun of the cache. Several of these caches had been in place for two or more years. Fredericksburg was a delight. We wanted to stay an extra day to find more of the caches placed by one particular cacher.

 

After arriving home and doing some local caching, we noticed a log about a cache that had been chewed by a squirrel. When we went to find that cache, we found a Skippy peanut butter jar lid on the path that had been squirrel chewed. The cache itself was the remains of the Skippy jar. There was no log. The previous finder, who had posted a Needs Maintenance, had used a piece of birch bark to sign his name. We fixed what we found the best we could, left a replacement log, and added comments in our online log. Most squirrels probably get excited at the smell of peanut butter. A Skippy jar probably retains some of that odor even after being run through the dishwasher. Who is to blame? The squirrel or the CO who used squirrel bait as a cache container? Why wasn't the Needs Maintenance honored?

 

Logs will get wet after a few months. That's why we post a Needs Maintenance. Who is to blame if no maintenance gets accomplished?

 

I do expect other cachers to do a satisfactory job of planning their caches, setting up their containers, and providing a durable log. Post It Notes are not durable.

 

Eartha is correct that venting does one good in many ways. I realize that my expectations won't always be met, but I do encourage all cachers to place quality caches. Some of the poor cache placements we see from new cachers may be the result of some of the poor caches they have found. If one is new to caching and rarely sees a strong watertight container with a durable log, how would he or she know that the poor caches are not the norm?

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I eat TONS of peanut butter. I figure its just wasteful of me to not reuse the empty containers.

I find that washing them out thoroughly, rinsing them in bleach several times and wiping them down with mineral spirits before spray painting them inside and out with Krylon seems to work. No critters have chewed on my caches in their short lives. I'm sure the containers will get brittle and will eventually get replaced, bt all my caches are near my home and are checked frequently. When it comes time to throw the cache in the recycling bin, I already have a replacement ready to go.

Just saying.

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I eat TONS of peanut butter. I figure its just wasteful of me to not reuse the empty containers.

I find that washing them out thoroughly, rinsing them in bleach several times and wiping them down with mineral spirits before spray painting them inside and out with Krylon seems to work. No critters have chewed on my caches in their short lives. I'm sure the containers will get brittle and will eventually get replaced, bt all my caches are near my home and are checked frequently. When it comes time to throw the cache in the recycling bin, I already have a replacement ready to go.

Just saying.

In certain part of the country, those would be torn apart in no time. Animals have an extremely good sense of smell. Even after it's washed. Krylon would be toxic for them, so they probably won't touch that. There's nothing like the old ammo can to insure a long cache life.

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I just gotta hop in here. I'm a newb. My wife and I have found a total of 2 caches, so take this for what you will. Our first was a good sized pill bottle covered in green camo tape...and totally empty. I used a business card as the log, signed it & stuffed it. The second was an awesome cache to find, but not so awesome itself. Without giving too much away, it took my caching skills to new heights. And all there was in the cache was a single tradeable item. No log. No waterproof container. Not even an attempt at a container. Not even a leaky gladware. As is my way, I'm one of the most laid back humans on the planet, my blood pressure didn't even flicker. What did flicker (also pretty normal for me) was my old boy scouts days. I went home and emailed the owners. Today, when I didn't hear back, I went to the evil empire (walmart) and bought a pack of small post-its, some small trinkets, a few stickers, and a water-tight box made to put your cell phone in (very nice btw for $5) I hiked back out to the two caches I visited originally, and put the post it's and a few stickers in the pill bottle, cleared a dead bird that was nearby, and went back to the second cache where I put a few small tradeables, a stack of post its for the log, and the water tight container In the cache.

 

Guess it's a case of don't-get-mad-get-to-work. This is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be a community. I have always made it a point to leave things better than you found them. The boy scout "leave no trace" policy is deeply embedded in me, and I guess I just wanna make the world a better place, and have a good time doing it. Guess that's why I love caching so far. Gives me a chance to be me.

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I, too, have been finding a good number of caches lately with poor containers, wet logs, soaked contents, etc. Heck, someone used a pirouline cookie tin for a cache, and the damned thing was nearly rusted shut, not to mention half filled with water. Maybe it's because I'm almost 40, maybe it's because I've been caching for almost 10 years, but I'm done being nice. For me, crappy caches will be met with satirical (dare I say harsh?) log entries. Of course its the CO's fault, and being overly nice in your log is over-rated. Let 'em have it, I say!

Edited by TaranWanderer

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You just never know... Today I found one cache in a nice woodland after a longish walk in the woods. Loads of great spots for a hide and it turned out to be a "pick a rock.. just any rock in a pile and look for the taped Gladware leftover box". The other one was between two rocks behind a church and was a well stocked ammo can set out by a Boy Scout group.

Edited by edscott

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Does anyone else sometimes feel like taking an entire cache and tossing it in the garbage? Yesterday a friend and I were caching and we lost count of how many caches in the area are in such bad shape that they could be considered trash. Water filled caches and logs so wet its nearly impossible to sign without tearing up the pages. It really annoys me when people think containers like the blue lid ziploc plastics and icecream buckets are excellent ideas for a cache. I find it hard to keep myself from leaving nasty comments venting my du hoc|du hoc singapore disgust at their containers which are similar quality to the often surrounding trash... And when the cache owner actually admits to doing maintenance it more often than not just involves wrapping it in a grocery bag or garbage bag. I feel like showing up at their homes and throwing a pelican case or a good ammo box at their face with all the force I can muster.noi that fami Id like to just do a CITO of my area and start tossing caches and i'm sure most of you feel the same way. Although I currently have no caches of my own, over the summer I will be placing some and they'll be pelican cases or similar. I hope some of the local cachers with bad caches see these and feel embarrassed and it motivates them to replace their caches or toss them in the garbage. :mad:

 

 

There are ways to get your point across in a log, without sounding mean and nasty. You can describe how gross the cache was in the most polite way

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1) Be vigilant about NM logs.

 

2) Be vigilant about NA logs when NM logs are ignored. Offer to CITO the geo-trash if you can.

 

If you've got some experience and a good rep with the community and your local reviewer you may also consider:

 

3) If the cache is a wreck AND has numerous NM logs going back several months AND the CO has not logged into the site for a year or more then consider CITOing it yourself and posting a NA log explaining you've done so and why. I've done this a few times: 2 broken magkeys with wet logs, 1 rusted out altoids container with wet logs, and some painted foam creation that was in pieces. I would only do #3 if it is very clear the cache is both badly in need of maintenance and abandoned.

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It is 100% the CO's fault and if they have the time to place a cache they should also make the time every so often to just go do basic maintenance even if no one has posted a NM log. I take a NM log as we need to get out there ASAP to see what is going on with OUR cache, my son knows if he can not take care of the caches he puts out I will shut them down. My son is constantly cleaning out caches, bagging logs and adding swag to caches we find that need it. His words when I told him that he was using up all his swag filling other CO's caches were "That's OK mom if I help keep them full then maybe people will see that and stop emptying them out". He honestly hardly ever uses his swag for himself, he only uses it when his little bro wants something. He is more interested in grabbing all the trackables and moving them on, he is on the site almost daily trying to see where every one he has touched has gone.

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I was going to multi-reply but I figured this would be cleaner.

 

Back in December, I had been out on the Canadian East coast. Did 20-30 caches out there and was discussed with the quality of the caches.

I accepted that some would be damp/wet as it had been raining for over a month out that way, but it was the quality and choice of containers. I was finding Kinder Suprise egg caches, excel gum containers (the hard plastic container) and my favorite, a pringles container.

I posted on this forum my complaint about the quality of caches in the area and oh did I start up a storm (which was partially the intent). I did start discussions about cache quality and maintenance which was what I was looking for.

 

The only conclusion I have been able to come to after this caching run is this;

- If the cache is damaged, place a NM log and send the CO a quick note with as much info as they may need to make it right (ie container cracked, or log wet, but container is ok...)

- If you are not the first in a long line of NM logs, it may be time for a NA log

- If the cache is trash, and should be cito, go straight to NA.

- If the cache needs maintenance, and you have the means to repair it (i.e have a spare log book,etc) go for it and post up a note stating it was repaired. (I only do this on occation where it is worth while)

(should be considered on a case per case basis)

 

One of the arguments I have heard while ranting about poor cache quality was the area in question doesn't have the $$ available for cachers to place expensive caches. I do not agree with this, and here is why;

- Only play the game within you means. Can't afford to place caches, hunt for them only.

- The average cost of the last 25+ caches I placed this year was ~$3-$4. This included either a dollar store or name brand L&L (depending on when they go on sale), dollar store memopad logbook (4pack for $1), ziplock sandwich bag, and dollar store or most cases, thrift store swag (a bag of small toys for $3-$5)

 

I guess my post is a bit of a rant as well.

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Sounds like a good use of the Needs Maintenance Archive Log.

Fixed.

Around here the locals ignore maintenance logs, but a NA will get them out there so it is not archived.

Korean caches as a whole don't realize that archival is not bad -- it is a important par of a game. I give it another few year and Seoul is going to be mega saturated -- with micros/nanos which is the only size they hide (even in the mountains).

Edited by releasethedogs

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I eat TONS of peanut butter. I figure its just wasteful of me to not reuse the empty containers.

I find that washing them out thoroughly, rinsing them in bleach several times and wiping them down with mineral spirits before spray painting them inside and out with Krylon seems to work. No critters have chewed on my caches in their short lives. I'm sure the containers will get brittle and will eventually get replaced, bt all my caches are near my home and are checked frequently. When it comes time to throw the cache in the recycling bin, I already have a replacement ready to go.

Just saying.

In certain part of the country, those would be torn apart in no time. Animals have an extremely good sense of smell. Even after it's washed. Krylon would be toxic for them, so they probably won't touch that. There's nothing like the old ammo can to insure a long cache life.

 

I'm in Minnesota and I have found a good deal more peanut butter and mayo jar caches than just about anything else. They seem to hold up very well. I can remember a few that had been nibbled at, and I can remember one that looked as though it had been attacked by an animal, but for the most part, they seem to be quite durable, and if well cleaned out, don't seem to attract animals any more than any other container, in my experience.

 

[Edit to add: Yes, an ammo can is still much more durable, but are considerably larger and can't be hidden in some of the same ways that a jar can]

Edited by knowschad

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The other one was between two rocks behind a church and was a well stocked ammo can set out by a Boy Scout group.

 

lol When I read this I had to look up your finds and see if you were caching in Colorado that day, because that exactly describes one I found last month.

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The area where I go to school (about an hour away from where I live) is littered with bad caches. In fact earlier this month on a numbers run with 4 other cachers we used every single extra log we had with us. What I find is that if its in the city / urban areas the caches seem to be less well taken care of. Especially if the rating is a one star (aka LPC or similar). If I want good quality caches I go trekking through the woods for my ammo cans, and skip my LPCs.

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I do have to chuckle about the Ammo Cans.. Most I have found have 1/2 - 2" of water in the bottom. They seem to lose their seals faster than a lot of other containers. I carry a cache repair kit most of the time, and will do repairs on generic containers. Any custom made or handcrafted container will not be touched. I then send a message directly to the CO.

 

JW

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I've guess I've been fortunate. I haven't found any caches that were in terrible shape. However, there was one in AZ that could not be opened (sliding key container) because it was overstuffed with logs. It absolutely is the CO's fault and they should be responsible. I want to place a cache, but caches are so abundant where I live that it's difficult to find available hiding spots. It's rude to take up a spot with an abandoned/unmaintained cache.

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Guess it's a case of don't-get-mad-get-to-work. This is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be a community. I have always made it a point to leave things better than you found them. The boy scout "leave no trace" policy is deeply embedded in me, and I guess I just wanna make the world a better place, and have a good time doing it. Guess that's why I love caching so far. Gives me a chance to be me.

+1

 

Trade Even or Trade Up.. in these cases' cases trade up.

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