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teamwsmf

Cache Licenses

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Im my quest to come up with some cool local web projects using geaching as a theme I have come across a problem.

 

I want to include local cache info on the site but each author here is the sole rights holder to thier data. To include the data I would want I would need to contact each author and get permission.

 

Then I thought, well heck , in the day and age of plaes like the Creative Commons (http://creativecommons.org) why dont we just apodt a simple notation system so cache creators can say how thier caches can be used.

 

Rough catagories would be

---------------------------------------

Geocaching.com Only - the cache data can not be scrapped, lifted or used on any other web site/service other than geocaching .com

 

NonCommercial - the cache data can be used on other web sites/servers but only for noncommercial uses.

 

Share Alike - the cache data can be used on other web sites/servers but only if that web site/server allows it it be shared in the same manner set out by the creator.

 

Open - the cache data can be used anywhere anyhow by anyone, its in the wild, have at it.

 

--Some extras that can be added---

 

Attribution - the cache data can be used but it must be attributed to the original author with or without an url that links back to them

 

No Derivative - the cache data can be used but must be used as it was created, no altering, editing adding or changing is allowed

 

---------

Well thats the rough idea. Im sure we can hash out a good set of standards to use. It would certianly make clear how each creator wants thier data used.

 

-tomwsmf

 

----------------------------

 

 

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

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Why?

 

If you want to have other people's cache on your site, why not just ask they post them? Why muddy GC.com and their hard work so you can ride on their coattails? I'm not going to grant just anyone license to be able to list my caches. At best, I'd selectively list. I might want to be on Joe's site, but not John's site. With your method, I couldn't be listed on either.

 

That's not to mention the confusion to newbies.

 

Not to mention the potential for abuse.

 

No, I think it a bad idea in the extreme. If it were implemented, I'd advise against granting license to anyone who asks.

 

If you want a local club with club caches, let your club members post them theirselves and stop trying to create a backdoor for people who like to exploit others.

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quote:
Originally posted by SE7EN:

Why?

 

If you want to have other people's cache on your site, why not just ask they post them? Why muddy GC.com and their hard work so you can ride on their coattails? I'm not going to grant just anyone license to be able to list my caches. At best, I'd selectively list. I might want to be on Joe's site, but not John's site. With your method, I couldn't be listed on either.

 

That's not to mention the confusion to newbies.

 

Not to mention the potential for abuse.

 

No, I think it a bad idea in the extreme. If it were implemented, I'd advise against granting license to anyone who asks.

 

If you want a local club with club caches, let your club members post them theirselves and stop trying to create a backdoor for people who like to exploit others.


Well put.

 

Where does that mentality come from that everything on the internet should be free and shared? Utopia doesn't exist. We tried it in the 70's and it didn't work. If you want to build a website that lists geocaches, go right ahead. Call up papers and TV and anyone who will listen and get them to promote your site. You already have a headstart, since this site has already taken the number of active geocachers in the world from a handful to 100,000 or more. Offer up Terabytes of data for free every month, and pay for that out of your pocket. I'm sure if you build a better site, you will have all the cache listings you could want, without having to piggyback off someone else. Isn't that the way things are supposed to work? Person A comes up with a better service then person B, person A becomes sucessful and person B fades away. Happens all the time. Look at Dell, or Home Depot, or Walmart.

Good luck, can't wait to see your new site.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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If you want my permission, the answer is NO. For now, I will let Geocaching.com have the exclusive dibs on my caches. If someone want to see them, they can do it here...... for free.

 

Besides, you didn't say what kind of 'project' it is. If you have ask for permission, you must have some sort of commercial goal. If it were just to promote geocaching, probably nobody would have minded.

 

"It's free advice and worth every cent."

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If Jeremy ever kicks himself for saying "There will always be free geocaching"......

 

Honestly, he could have charged a basic membership fee from the beginning, or not made that claim and gone ahead and charged ALL users $40 a year or whatever. I hop the charter membership has been able to pay him and his staff WELL.

 

The charter membership is an awesome idea. When is my membership up for renewal? I wonder if Jeremy is running low on lobster and is having to resort back to frozen pizza again. I hope not. He deserves Mignon!

 

---------------

burnout.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

 

[This message was edited by VentureForth on February 12, 2003 at 07:32 AM.]

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It seems to me that we have a lot of UNAMERICAN COMMUNIST PINKOS roaming around the forums these days... but oh, my friends, it isn't limited just to these forums! Its spreading everywhere! Why won't the senate DO something about this?

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quote:
Originally posted by TeamWSMF:

Im my quest to come up with some cool local web projects using geaching as a theme I have come across a problem.


 

.............is geaching? icon_confused.gif

 

My wife says put a coordinate on it and I'll find it.

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It is possible, isn't it, to state how wrong the idea is without tromping so hard?

 

This forum used to have some of the most congenial discussions on the web with occasional light hearted stomping and periodic debates, but I'm seeing a lot more aggression in insults and the trashing of others.

 

Why have the moderators allowed this to continue?

 

---------------

burnout.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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I'm a newbie, but greatly appreciate this site's existence and believe if we want to promote the hobby/sport we should focus it on this site.

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quote:
Originally posted by VentureForth:

It is possible, isn't it, to state how wrong the idea is without tromping so hard?


 

Actualy this has been a good thread for me. I thought the idea had some merit, and I still do. What I have realised though is the vocal audience here is of a differnt ilk. I have found a place where folks dig it, in fact are doing it, so we will see what comes of it.

 

Its not so much about bad ideas, just bad audiencesicon_smile.gif- Live and learn.

 

AS for the whole idea of sharing, might I suggest a quick look at the following places where "giving it away" is the way things work, and work well.

 

http://www.wikipedia.org/

http://www.openoffice.org/

http://www.winamp.com/

http://www.gutenberg.net/

http://gnuwin.org/index.html

http://sourceforge.net

http://countermoves.sourceforge.net

 

For those who still dont get it, thats ok, seems there are more who do such that the tide will turn.

 

-tomwsmf

 

----------------------------

 

 

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

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Too funny! Yeah, those sites give away stuff, so does GC.com. (BTW, two of those sites wouldn't even come up. Money probelms maybe?) GC.com is free for the most part. So where's your gripe?

 

Anyway, go to those sites and see if they will let you take parts of their sites and put them up on your site to do as you will. How many do you suppose will do that?

 

But that's okay. Blame the people who think your ideas stink. Better yet, insult the very audience you're trying to woo. Good job!

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quote:
Originally posted by TeamWSMF:

Actualy this has been a good thread for me. I thought the idea had some merit, and I still do. What I have realised though is the vocal audience here is of a differnt ilk. I have found a place where folks dig it, in fact are doing it, so we will see what comes of it.

 

Its not so much about bad ideas, just bad audiencesicon_smile.gif- Live and learn.

 

AS for the whole idea of sharing, might I suggest a quick look at the following places where "giving itaway" is the way things work, and work well.

 

http://www.wikipedia.org/

http://www.openoffice.org/

http://www.winamp.com/

http://www.gutenberg.net/

http://gnuwin.org/index.html

http://sourceforge.net

 

For those who still dont get it, thats ok, seems there are more who do such that the tide will turn.


You had be rolling on the floor laughing! THANKS! I'm sure Jeremy wishes he was making the BILLIONs of dollars the companies that host those sites do! HAHAHAHA!

FREE! You kill me! You TRY and use the copyrighted stuff from winamp.com for your personal site, and see how fast AOL/Time Warner shuts you down.

http://www.wikipedia.org - Owned by Bomis, Inc. A highly profitable web portal, search engine and web host. Mostly deals in "guy oriented" sites (soft porn)

http://www.openoffice.org - Owned by Sun. A little ol' computer company ya'll might have heard of....

http://www.winamp.com - Nullsoft, a division of AOL/Time Warner. 'Nuff said.

gutenberg.net - OK truly a non-profit labor of love. But wait, whats this?

Q: Can I copy your site, or your site materials?

A: No.

Keeping the PG site updated with the latest e-text releases is an ongoing job, and our experience is that people, however well-intentioned, do not keep copies up to date. We want there to be one clear source for people seeking the latest Project Gutenberg information, and we think that having a lot of out-of-date copies and partial copies scattered around the net would be a bad thing. HMMMM. Sounds alot like the reasons I've heard used for geocaching.com not allowing it. Maybe not such good example. Let's try again.

http://gnuwin.org - I admit I know little about this project, and it seems pretty legit. There does appear to be some Swiss Corporate backing, but I'm really not sure, so I'll let you have this one.

http://sourceforge.net(including your countermoves subdomain) - Sourceforge is owned by VA Software. Besides owning many of the major tech websites, they also SELL software, services, and support. Sell. For money. Not give away for free. Oh, and lest you think for a second that VA hosts sites like sourceforge out of the kindness of their hearts, they made over $20mil profit last year just on selling all that advertising you see plastered all over their sites.

So, out of all your examples, there was ONE "where "giving itaway" is the way things work, and work well." Every other site you mentioned either does not share as freely as you would like, or is subsidizing thru other parts of billion dollar corporations.

Can you please explain how they relate to Geocaching.com?

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

+ http://www.wikipedia.org - Owned by Bomis, Inc. A highly profitable web portal, search engine and web host. Mostly deals in "guy oriented" sites (soft porn)


 

They give away the full database of the project and update it on a daily basis. There project has not fallen down or died because they allow the whole database to be handed out IN TOTAL to anyone that wants..heck they even throw in the code to run the web site that serve it up...And yet they still thrive.

 

THey got good backing, gee now theres an idea.

 

quote:

+ http://www.openoffice.org - Owned by Sun. A little ol' computer company ya'll might have heard of....


 

SO why does a big company GIVE AWAY not nly the app but the source code? Could it be they get the idea that given the open access to things the users tend to work things out for themsleves? Hmmmm.

 

quote:

+ http://www.winamp.com - Nullsoft, a division of AOL/Time Warner. 'Nuff said.


 

The company was origanly a three or four person deal run out of the south west. The Nullsoft team was giving it away LONG befor they got bought out by AOL. Ok, so in your mind the buyout invalidates the whole concept , so take Winamp and discet ZINF, QJOFOL, Audacity, Virtual Dub just to name a few audio based projects.

 

quote:

+ gutenberg.net - OK truly a non-profit labor of love. But wait, whats this?

_Q: Can I copy your site, or your site materials?

A: No.

Keeping the PG site updated with the latest e-text releases is an ongoing job, and our experience is that people, however well-intentioned, do not keep copies up to date.


 

Actualy they will galdly help you become a Mirror site , that is someone who carries full or partial copies of the entire data store, all they ask is you stay current to avoid confusion.

 

See you need to dig just a little bit deeper in your studies, points off for incompleteness.

 

Next...

 

quote:

+ http://sourceforge.net(including your countermoves subdomain) - Sourceforge is owned by VA Software. Besides owning many of the major tech websites, they also SELL software, services, and support. Sell. For money. Not give away for free.


 

The bulk of the projects that have a source forge page though do not run behind major corporations, I know Im one of them. Do a little digging, where does countermoves.sourceforge.net get its funding?

 

We would be doing our project regardless of there being a Sourceforge to post on, Sourceforge is simply an easy way to post in one place where everyone can find you easier than a google.

 

BUT, the projeccts themselves, where is thier funding. Who funds MULE or Virtual Linux or PDFcreator or QUB or most of the other 56k projects listed (figure maybe 10k of them are actualy active, still a good chunk)

 

quote:

Can you please explain how they relate to Geocaching.com?


 

They each show that things can be given without the world falling down in some chicken little nightmare of doom you hear around here.

 

Open data, open access, and open sharing works.

 

-tomwsmf

 

----------------------------

 

 

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

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quote:
Originally posted by TeamWSMF:

Open data, open access, and open sharing works.


 

Get a job, hippie!

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Why is this even being proposed? Sounds like you have too much free time outside of geocaching!! I'm sure that in the world inside your head you're thinking that this would be a good idea. It is...Jeremy has already done it. He's sharing his idea with us and I personally am grateful for a new hobby.

 

What is a mirror site anyway?? Why not go to the original instead of a cheap imitation?

 

ok done...for now.

 

kc

row, row, row your boat

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quote:
Originally posted by TeamWSMF:

They each show that things can be given without the world falling down in some chicken little nightmare of doom you hear around here.

 

Open data, open access, and open sharing works.

 

-tomwsmf


The point is few of them are totally open and free of any restrictions (even in the beginning, Nullsoft didnt give away the source) like you desire here. Even fewer of them are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. The 10K of "free " projects are earning 100's of millions of dollars, just not for the people actually doing the work. Most of the sites are also backed by larger corporations that can afford to give away a few crumbs in exchange for the advertising. The day geocaching.com's front page looks like winamp or sourceforges if the day I start looking for a different way to play this GAME. Thats right. GAME. Not a noble project to digitize all the UNCOPYRIGHTED text in the world, or develop leading edge applications. A GAME.

Maybe in the future, someone like Disney will offer Jeremy 20mil to sellout, so they can plaster the site with ads for "A Billion And One Dalmations". Then if they lose $5,000 a month giving stuff away, no big deal. Until then I think Groundspeak has done a fine job running geocaching.com. (not .org, DOT COM. As in COMmercial. As in try to make money by selling your services) There are several other geocaching sites that promote the same ideals you do. I'm sure since your way is the way that "works", those sites are doing much better then this one anyway, so why don't you offer your services and suggestions to them?

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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Sorry. I'm with everyone else. If I choose to list my caches here and no where else, then that's my business. I have the option to list my caches at other places, but I don't. I might in the future, but I've listed them at the most popular site with the best features. I don't need anyone else, quite frankly. This site suits me and until such time as it doesn't, I'm going to list my caches here. If TPTB offer--which I seriously doubt--the ability to let users tag their caches as "open" then so be it, but I'd probably be inclined to keep control over mine.

 

Another thought: You mentioned something about being about to serve up caches and lists in different formats. Users can do that now with GPSbabel. I've been using it to convert from one format to another quite successfully. No need for someone to offer it up. Unless, of course, you're trying to get around the membership required for the pocket queries. If you're talking about making things "Palmable," then we already have two excellent programs that do that already--and they're getting better!

 

Quite frankly, I see absolutely no need for anyone to mirror caches from GC.com, especially mine.

 

CR

 

72057_2000.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

If you're talking about making things "Palmable," then we already have two excellent programs that do that already--and they're getting better!


 

Only two? Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. icon_wink.gif

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

If you're talking about making things "Palmable," then we already have two excellent programs that do that already--and they're getting better!


 

Only two? Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. icon_wink.gif

 

http://216.202.195.127/warm.gif


 

Well, poop! I forgot about yours! I was just thinking about it yesterday, but I haven't gotten around to that the thing that will convert the output of the GPX to HTML. Been meaning to get to that, but...

 

Sorry!

 

CR

 

72057_2000.gif

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quote:
Actualy this has been a good thread for me. I thought the idea had some merit, and I still do. What I have realised though is the vocal audience here is of a differnt ilk. I have found a place where folks dig it, in fact are doing it, so we will see what comes of it.

 

Its not so much about bad ideas, just bad audiences- Live and learn.

 

AS for the whole idea of sharing, might I suggest a quick look at the following places where "giving it away" is the way things work, and work well.


 

Any of these places giving away clues? Because you are SORELY in need of one....

 

When GPSr's are outlawed, only Outlaws will have GPSr's.

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