Posting a note instead of a DNF

[+PalmettoBuckeye]

I have a multi-stage cache that a cacher has twice posted a note instead of a DNF. This is the second time he has done this. I deleted the first one because they so helpfully posted a picture of where the cache was hidden. That earned me a huffy email which I ignored. Now they posted another note instead of a DNF. Do I delete again or just leave it?

Edited May 8, 2011 by PalmettoBuckeye

[+StarBrand]

If it isn't a spoiler - why delete it?? Sure a DNF may be more accurate but some folks think that equates to a demerit of sorts and won't use them. I log all my DNFs.

 

I'd let it go - not worth the ill feelings it may create.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Delete spoilers....... they can huff & puff all they want.

 

Note vs DNF? Apparently they don't want to "spoil" their "perfect" record (it REALLY, REALLY, REALLY matters to some). It's their problem, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Multis get lots of notes because cachers like to document stages. Your issue shouldn't be with notes v. dnf, but rather will you allow the picture to stand. I am really curious why you put a physical log in a stage. Is this a regional thing? It would confuse me if I found a log in a stage that wasn't the final.

[+kunarion]

I deleted the first one because they so helpfully posted a picture of where the cache was hidden. That earned me a huffy email which I ignored. Now they posted another note instead of a DNF. Do I delete again or just leave it?

Don't discourage logs, if they're possibly helpful to others, who are deciding which caches to try. "DNF" is played in so many different ways, a Note means just as much. It just makes the icon count different than it would be.

 

If I can't find a cache, I often resist taking pictures or waxing eloquent about where I suspect the cache to be. I'd probably unknowingly reveal the exact location. So it's fine to delete "spoiler" photo, but you could first suggest the cacher remove the photo from their log. If you've had to delete the whole log, you could ask them to replace the log without the photo. But since the cacher didn't know where the container is, you have kinda given away the location, anyway. At least to one person.

Edited May 8, 2011 by kunarion

[+Bear and Ragged]

I post a note if I go for a cache but can't search, eg It's an urban cache with lots of muggles around.

 

It's my record of having an attempt at the cache and that I may return another time, it also shows you that a cacher has at least looked at finding your cache, but couldn't due to the circumstances.

Please don't delete it.

 

However, spoilers/spoiler photos can be/should be deleted!

 

Everyone plays their own way.

[+L0ne.R]

With regards to a Note vs. DNF, I'm with those that say that it doesn't matter. I know you are not alone though as many COs want folks to post DNFs instead of notes. Some won't provide hints unless you post a DNF. My guess is they like hiding tricky caches and want the difficulty to be reflected in the cache's DNF count. As a CO I don't care, because a note or a dnf accomplishes the same thing - it let's me and other cachers know that there might be a problem. If I insist on a dnf I may not get the cacher, who prefers notes, to post anything and end up wasting the time of future finders if the cache is really missing. .

Edited May 8, 2011 by Lone R

[+gsmX2]

I am sure that there are several reasons people would use a note instead of a DNF to log a cache they haven't found other than "spoiling their perfect record." As a CO, I would prefer people use them in some circumstances because I believe a DNF discourages others from visiting a cache. Here are some examples of a notes I have left:

 

"There were too many muggles around for me to search for the caches, so I moved on."

"I was short of time, so did a cursory search. It's very likely the cache could be there."

"As I was on my hands and knees looking under one set of rocks, I looked by my feet and there was a rattlesnake under a ledge about 3 feet from my left foot. I stopped looking."

 

When I see similar wording on DNFs on my cache, I get a little annoyed, but am able to move on.

[+ThePetersTrio]

I will post a note if I got to a cache location but don't have a chance to actually search. This doesn't happen often but yes - if there are too many muggles to search safely or (like this past very rainy January) arriving to the location and finding it surrounded by deep water and not having waders with me to even approach GZ, let alone search.

 

The note isn't because I'm embarrassed to post a DNF. I post a note to let other cachers know - hey, come prepared for deep water or a lot of muggles on a Saturday morning, etc.

[+PalmettoBuckeye]

Multis get lots of notes because cachers like to document stages. Your issue shouldn't be with notes v. dnf, but rather will you allow the picture to stand. I am really curious why you put a physical log in a stage. Is this a regional thing? It would confuse me if I found a log in a stage that wasn't the final.

There's no log in the first stage just the final stage. The only thing in the first stage is a laminated piece of paper that has the next set of coordinates on it.

[+PalmettoBuckeye]

I am sure that there are several reasons people would use a note instead of a DNF to log a cache they haven't found other than "spoiling their perfect record." As a CO, I would prefer people use them in some circumstances because I believe a DNF discourages others from visiting a cache. Here are some examples of a notes I have left:

 

"There were too many muggles around for me to search for the caches, so I moved on."

"I was short of time, so did a cursory search. It's very likely the cache could be there."

"As I was on my hands and knees looking under one set of rocks, I looked by my feet and there was a rattlesnake under a ledge about 3 feet from my left foot. I stopped looking."

 

When I see similar wording on DNFs on my cache, I get a little annoyed, but am able to move on.

 

OK, I thought all those examples (especially the last two)you just gave WERE typical DNFs. I guess I'm still a little confused about what is a DNF and what isn't a DNF.

[+kunarion]

I am sure that there are several reasons people would use a note instead of a DNF to log a cache they haven't found other than "spoiling their perfect record." As a CO, I would prefer people use them in some circumstances because I believe a DNF discourages others from visiting a cache. Here are some examples of a notes I have left:

 

"There were too many muggles around for me to search for the caches, so I moved on."

"I was short of time, so did a cursory search. It's very likely the cache could be there."

"As I was on my hands and knees looking under one set of rocks, I looked by my feet and there was a rattlesnake under a ledge about 3 feet from my left foot. I stopped looking."

 

When I see similar wording on DNFs on my cache, I get a little annoyed, but am able to move on.

 

OK, I thought all those examples (especially the last two)you just gave WERE typical DNFs. I guess I'm still a little confused about what is a DNF and what isn't a DNF.

All of the above are DNF. They "Did Not Find", so they should do a DNF. A note "I did not find" is not appropriate when it's a DNF by definition. However, even a Note is something, and if they can justify it in their own mind (particularly if it's the mindset of "well okay in that case then every other cache in the world's a DNF" hyperbole), I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.

 

My general rule is:

I post a DNF if I did not find,

a "Found It" if I did, and

a note if it's neither (nor a NM/NA). I also avoid going back to the same cache a dozen times, for a dozen DNFs with no particular plan (moderation, people). But all that is not everyone's general rule.

 

And some Cache Owners place their own nutty DNF rules upon the finders. Present company excluded of course.

Edited May 8, 2011 by kunarion

[+Viajero Perdido]

I think of a DNF as a signal to the owner and other cachers that there may be a problem with the cache.

 

If I haven't had the opportunity to do a thorough search, I don't want to falsely send that message. So I use a note in those cases.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

I am sure that there are several reasons people would use a note instead of a DNF to log a cache they haven't found other than "spoiling their perfect record." As a CO, I would prefer people use them in some circumstances because I believe a DNF discourages others from visiting a cache. Here are some examples of a notes I have left:

 

"There were too many muggles around for me to search for the caches, so I moved on."

"I was short of time, so did a cursory search. It's very likely the cache could be there."

"As I was on my hands and knees looking under one set of rocks, I looked by my feet and there was a rattlesnake under a ledge about 3 feet from my left foot. I stopped looking."

 

When I see similar wording on DNFs on my cache, I get a little annoyed, but am able to move on.

 

OK, I thought all those examples (especially the last two)you just gave WERE typical DNFs. I guess I'm still a little confused about what is a DNF and what isn't a DNF.

 

If I walk away an think "this is a good hide, I don't know where it could be", I would DNF. If I didn't get a chance to properly look, I wouldn't post anything. If I didn't get a chance to properly look and something noteworthy happened, I would log a note. But that's just me.

[+captnemo]

I am sure that there are several reasons people would use a note instead of a DNF to log a cache they haven't found other than "spoiling their perfect record." As a CO, I would prefer people use them in some circumstances because I believe a DNF discourages others from visiting a cache. Here are some examples of a notes I have left:

 

"There were too many muggles around for me to search for the caches, so I moved on."

"I was short of time, so did a cursory search. It's very likely the cache could be there."

"As I was on my hands and knees looking under one set of rocks, I looked by my feet and there was a rattlesnake under a ledge about 3 feet from my left foot. I stopped looking."

 

When I see similar wording on DNFs on my cache, I get a little annoyed, but am able to move on.

 

OK, I thought all those examples (especially the last two)you just gave WERE typical DNFs. I guess I'm still a little confused about what is a DNF and what isn't a DNF.

In the first example I would post a note as I didn't search and therefore couldn't find.

In the 2nd example I would post a DNF as I did search but didn't find.

In the the 3rd I would run and then post a DNF as I did search but didn't find.

 

IMHO not using DNFs is like claiming you never get stuck while 4 wheeling. All it means is you just are not playing hard enough. The shame will fade

[AZcachemeister]

It's a fine line between when a failed search is a DNF log, or a note proclaiming DNF.

In the end it really doesn't matter...they failed to find the cache for whatever reason.

In general, I will post a note if I didn't get out of the vehicle due to heathens, earthquake, hurricane, flood, or whatever.

If I DID, IN FACT get out of the vehicle and actually attempt to locate the container, then it's (usually! ) a DNF.

 

Posting photos of the suspect final location is a whole other issue, and the owner would have to decide how much the photo gave away...or didn't.

[+gsmX2]

I think of a DNF as a signal to the owner and other cachers that there may be a problem with the cache.

 

If I haven't had the opportunity to do a thorough search, I don't want to falsely send that message. So I use a note in those cases.

 

Explains my philosophy very well. And I accept that others feel differently.

[mresoteric]

I think of a DNF as a signal to the owner and other cachers that there may be a problem with the cache.

 

If I haven't had the opportunity to do a thorough search, I don't want to falsely send that message. So I use a note in those cases.

 

I think of Did Not Find as I did not find the cache. The contents of my log will indicate whether or not there may be a problem with the cache.

[+Chrysalides]

OK, I thought all those examples (especially the last two)you just gave WERE typical DNFs. I guess I'm still a little confused about what is a DNF and what isn't a DNF.

Log as you think makes sense. But do allow others to log as they think make sense as well. As long as they didn't post anything inappropriate, I'd let the log stand.

[+DanOCan]

I think of a DNF as a signal to the owner and other cachers that there may be a problem with the cache.

 

If I haven't had the opportunity to do a thorough search, I don't want to falsely send that message. So I use a note in those cases.

I think of Did Not Find as I did not find the cache. The contents of my log will indicate whether or not there may be a problem with the cache.

 

Ah yes, but with the volume of caches many people don't even bother to read the description, nevermind the previous logs to gain that level of context. I know for myself if the last three logs on a cache are DNFs I filter them out in GSAK before they ever hit my GPSr.

 

That is my fundamental reason for only posting Notes when I am unable to reach ground zero AND perform a proper search. Anyone who looks at my history will see there is no shortage of DNFs so it is certainly nothing to do with me wanting to avoid blemishes on my record.

[+Too Tall John]

I am really curious why you put a physical log in a stage. Is this a regional thing? It would confuse me if I found a log in a stage that wasn't the final.

I have a multi-stage Letterbox Hybrid. Each stage is listed on one of the letterbox websites as it's own letterbox, so each stage has a log & stamp. Despite this being spelled out in the cache page AND the logs being clearly labeled "For Letterboxers, Cachers Go On to the Next Stage", it has tended to confuse several people, but short of eliminating two of the letterboxes, I see no way of fixing it.

 

So, yes, you are absolutely right that the practice of putting logs in stages of a regular Multi Cache could be confusing, and unless there are circumstances like mine, I see no good reason for it, it's just a maintenance hassle for the CO.

I am sure that there are several reasons people would use a note instead of a DNF to log a cache they haven't found other than "spoiling their perfect record." As a CO, I would prefer people use them in some circumstances because I believe a DNF discourages others from visiting a cache. Here are some examples of a notes I have left:

 

"There were too many muggles around for me to search for the caches, so I moved on."

"I was short of time, so did a cursory search. It's very likely the cache could be there."

"As I was on my hands and knees looking under one set of rocks, I looked by my feet and there was a rattlesnake under a ledge about 3 feet from my left foot. I stopped looking."

 

When I see similar wording on DNFs on my cache, I get a little annoyed, but am able to move on.

OK, I thought all those examples (especially the last two)you just gave WERE typical DNFs. I guess I'm still a little confused about what is a DNF and what isn't a DNF.

No.

 

That is to say, you are not confused about what a DNF is. DNF=Did Not Find. If your log includes the verbiage "I looked" or "I searched" or the like, and does not end with you finding the cache, you Did Not Find the cache. Anyone who thinks that posting a DNF is an automatic Red Flag that something's wrong thinks too highly of themselves. I cache with the #1 Cacher in New Hampshire (according to the Grand Poobah) on a regular basis, and we DNF easy caches all the time. Sometimes they turn out to be missing, but more often than not, we just miss the obvious. A cache owner can usually read into a log which is the case, and if they need, they can email the hunter for further information before making a maintenance run.

 

All that being said, if someone looks for one of my caches but doesn't find it, I'm happy that they log AT ALL saying that they didn't find it, be it a DNF or a Note. "Found It" logs that I read (with no prior logs) that say "This was our 6th trip to this cache, we finally found it!" drive me nuts! What if the cache were actually gone? I'd like to know that this is actually in the realm of possibilities. Come to think of it, there's one of mine that hasn't been logged in a while, it's on a trail that I have a couple other caches on, too. I need to go check on it because people have been logging the other 2 caches, but not this one. It is a more challenging hide, but no logs at all? C'mon, people...

[+kunarion]

there's one of mine that hasn't been logged in a while, it's on a trail that I have a couple other caches on, too. I need to go check on it because people have been logging the other 2 caches, but not this one. It is a more challenging hide, but no logs at all? C'mon, people...

True, that's likely due to people not logging their search at all (the Found It log later revealing they've "tried several times"). If I think I'll have plenty of time to search, or that there will me no muggles, and thus I can't search when I expected to be able to, I'll type an appropriate log. Lots of people don't, and that's OK, but withholds important info from the rest of us who do review the cache pages before the hunt. If it's for fear of others filtering out "too many DNFs", a lack of DNFs is especially tough to filter out.

 

I also think that many people resist logging due to other logs getting deleted. So that's why the OP should be a little lenient towards log types, when they may almost work as either a "Note" or "DNF". Many cachers would have rationalized it away and left no log, and if a log's deleted by the CO, they're less likely to type anything.

Edited May 9, 2011 by kunarion

[+A & J Tooling]

It'd be neat that if the CO went to their cache and verified that all was good, all the notes were instantly turned into DNF's. Would shut up a lot of the people that assume they know it all.

[+kunarion]

It'd be neat that if the CO went to their cache and verified that all was good, all the notes were instantly turned into DNF's. Would shut up a lot of the people that assume they know it all.

Although I usually do a DNF if I Did Not Find, there's one recent cache I went to (on the way to another cache), that's the “needle-in-a-haystack” kind. I just wanted to see what it was like. Sure I looked around for a couple of minutes, but I shouldn't have gone, since it's rated high-difficulty and I knew I would not take the time for the meticulous search of hundreds of square feet for a blinkie. There's no maintenance problem with the cache (if the container's still there, which it probably is). By many people's definition, that should be a “Note” or “No Log”. Now my DNF, if added with other people's DNFs, may get that one filtered out. What a shame.

[+A & J Tooling]

But those are the fun ones to find. All those dnfs. Enjoy the challenge.

[+Too Tall John]

It'd be neat that if the CO went to their cache and verified that all was good, all the notes were instantly turned into DNF's. Would shut up a lot of the people that assume they know it all.

Your suggestion implies that a DNF is a mark against you. It isn't. It just means that you didn't find the cache. So what if you don't find it? If you found every cache you looked for, that wouldn't be very sporting. It's why people will never go Big Game Hunting in the local zoo. Well, aside from the fact you'd get arrested...