...I've got a gun

[+jipow]

 

I hate to give up the cache just because of a grumpy old lady, but I also don't want to put anyone in danger. Other than suggesting that the cacher file a criminal complaint, what you you do?

 

Why ask? If you dont want to put other cachers in danger, pull it! I would hate to be the owner of a cache that someone warned me about a angry crazy lady nearby and I didnt pull it and someone got shot later.Think of your fellow cachers.

Of course, It wouldnt be a bad idea to make sure neighbors know about near caches and that there OK with them.

[+Walts Hunting]

It would do no good for the CO to call the police. Without being able to talk to the actual person who was there the police would not get involved.

[+popokiiti]

Unpleasant experience - I would go and remove the cache from that location, maybe with the cacher mentioned. Perhaps with a police officer in plain clothes if possible as protection. Do you have any friends on the force?

She may be a old lady on her own, who is scared - who knows. Maybe the gun she has belongs to the grandchildren, a water pistol maybe. We have a gun. It is one of those air pellet things. She may not even have a gun. Not worth finding out the bad way though.

[Clan Riffster]

If the cache was mine, I would pull it. The cachers I know don't play this game for the purpose of adding stress to their lives.

On a side note: If this had happened, as described, in Florida, it would not be criminal.

When someone states "I have a gun", that is more informative than hostile.

Just because a person feels threatened, doesn't mean a criminal threat was made.

[+hzoi]

Without more (hand gestures, resting your hand on the butt of the gun, pulling the gun out of the holster, etc.) the statement "I have a gun" does not seem to rise to the level of an assault or threat. For those of you who are keeping score at home, that's two police officers (Walts Hunting, Clan Riffster) and one attorney (me).

 

Given the facts as stated in post 1, this statement was not a criminal act.

[+Snoogans]

Without more (hand gestures, resting your hand on the butt of the gun, pulling the gun out of the holster, etc.) the statement "I have a gun" does not seem to rise to the level of an assault or threat. For those of you who are keeping score at home, that's two police officers (Walts Hunting, Clan Riffster) and one attorney (me).

 

Given the facts as stated in post 1, this statement was not a criminal act.

 

How does your assertion factor in if the person making the statement is a CHL holder? In Texas that's a big no-no. Of course, you would have to prove or get them to admit they were packing when they made the statement.

 

The minute you tell someone you have a gun as a CHL holder, you have failed to conceal. See ya in court if ya say it to me. Of course, you'll probably see my gun before I see yours in that particular scenario. Showing and shooting are different things entirely.

 

I said "probably" for the exact same reasons you mentioned in the first line of your reply. I would have to feel threatened. If my child was with me, I would feel threatened just by the mere mention of it in the presence of a child. However, in that case, I'm most likely gonna make the second move hoping for things to stay cool rather than taking the upper hand from someone acting overtly agressive as you described.

[knowschad]

One part of the last finder's log that has not been addressed, and I am very curious about, is and she said that it was a possible breach in "homeland security."

 

Is she really that paranoid, or is the cache on or near something that could seriously be considered a security issue?

[+Too Tall John]

One part of the last finder's log that has not been addressed, and I am very curious about, is and she said that it was a possible breach in "homeland security."

 

Is she really that paranoid, or is the cache on or near something that could seriously be considered a security issue?

It's down the road a bit from a power station of some sort, but...

[jholly]

As one that was on the business end of a very irate property owner I can say it was not a pleasant experience. I sure would have hated to been there with my grandkids. The one I had this experience at some other fellow cachers got to meet the county mounties later that day. Seems to me if the seekers of you cache might have less than a pleasant experience I would have to wonder why you want to continue to maintain the cache. The one I had the experience at is still there as far as I know. I suspect others got to meet the very nice lady also. I would put it to rest and move on.

[knowschad]

One part of the last finder's log that has not been addressed, and I am very curious about, is and she said that it was a possible breach in "homeland security."

 

Is she really that paranoid, or is the cache on or near something that could seriously be considered a security issue?

It's down the road a bit from a power station of some sort, but...

 

Yeah, I see what looks like a small power transformer station, but its a ways away. But who knows what might have been put up after those photos were taken?

[+roziecakes]

I side with Too Tall John in perhaps considering that it might actually be private property. I live in a fairly rural area on three acres. My property extends over a block down the road and there are no fences between my property and the property next door; just a small easement road. To the front, our property extends halfway into the front yard of the person across the street; but the property lines are not obvious except to my husband and I and the folks across the street, and we let them use it for their lawn.

 

This is a small example, but point being is that to the passerby, it would not be obvious what was property and what wasn't, and where property lines end. So what may look like public land may not be.

 

I know that the lady's reaction may seem extreme, but it may just be that she's frightened, and that's her way of defending herself. She may not have a gun at all.

 

That being said, I would pull the caches and move them elsewhere.

[+Walts Hunting]

There's an expression we used to use in law enforcement. When people would insist on doing something dangerous just because they were in the righ. Yes sir you are within your rights in fact you could be dead right.

[+A & J Tooling]

It's in the country, she's the nearest landowner and some of you say you have a right? I'm sure she lives out there because she likes the solitude. If someone is always stopping and getting out of their vehicles in front of her property, I think she has every right to be paranoid. I'm also willing to bet she really does have a weapon.

 

Don't you think it'd be the best choice for this community to move the cache? Are you really willing to take the negative press for your 'right' to cache here?

 

"Officer, I swear he had something in his hand! I thought it was a pistol! I was terrified for my life and defended myself."

[+TheLoneGrangers]

I think you should make a comment about it on the cache page. Give the seekers the choice, we should be given the choice in a free country correct?

[+TheLoneGrangers]

double post sorry

Edited May 3, 2011 by TheLoneGrangers

[knowschad]

I think you should make a comment about it on the cache page. Give the seekers the choice, we should be given the choice in a free country correct?

 

Give the seekers a choice as to whether or not they want to risk upsetting a neighbor?

[+TheLoneGrangers]

If it's not on private property she can get upset all she wants

[+Too Tall John]

If it's not on private property she can get upset all she wants

If it's not on private property, what kind of property does that make it? Public. I see no evidence that the cache is on public property, in fact it looks like it is on the edge of someone's field.

[+jipow]

If it's not on private property she can get upset all she wants

 

I can almost guarantee you, when she finds the cache (and she will) She wont be the one upset, it will be all the people who DNF it because it;s muggled.

I still say its good manners to let homeowners near a cache know about it.

We have a long driveway and have a cache at the end of it, we let our neighbors know about it. My next door neighbor loves watching others look for it, but it could be another story if he didnt know about it (and he does have a gun).

[+captnemo]

Report it to the police and move the cache. While it isn't worth placing cachers and this woman in each others way anytime someone threatens people with a gun, even verbally , it should be brought to the authorities attention.

+1 Move the cache to avoid the problem. Report the problem to prevent problems.

[GOF and Bacall]

If it's not on private property she can get upset all she wants

If it's not on private property, what kind of property does that make it? Public. I see no evidence that the cache is on public property, in fact it looks like it is on the edge of someone's field.

 

Agreed. I don't think that is public property.

[+geodarts]

Without more (hand gestures, resting your hand on the butt of the gun, pulling the gun out of the holster, etc.) the statement "I have a gun" does not seem to rise to the level of an assault or threat. For those of you who are keeping score at home, that's two police officers (Walts Hunting, Clan Riffster) and one attorney (me).

 

You might as well make that two attorneys.

 

Back in the day when I lived down a rural road, I once was in the sheriff's department on some business when a person who lived nearby came in to collect a rifle that had been taken into evidence in connection with a homicide (after a jury found the killing was in self defense). He was not the shooter in that case, but he owned the gun and ran his fingers down the barrel, looked at me, and said "You never know when this could be of use in the neighborhood." Now part of my business that day did have to do with him, and while that is another story, I will say that there are some people along country roads who tend to say things that would give the average person pause. The woman who encountered the cacher might be one of them.

 

(As an aside, even if the situation seems unlikely to escalate beyond words, I sometimes think about one of my favorite cases, People v. Gleghorn (1987) 193 Cal.App.3d 196, which warns about "the dangers of weaponry in the hands of unreasonable powers who become unduly provoked over minor irritations." It can happen.)

 

Now if someone like that did not appreciate my cache along the road, I would probably move it. There are some things that are worth taking a stand about, principles that are worth upholding even in the face of opposition. I don't think leaving a container by the side of the road is one of them, particularly if that cache might be on private property (even assuming that it could be within an easement).

Edited May 3, 2011 by mulvaney

[knowschad]

If it's not on private property she can get upset all she wants

Legally, yes. If that's all you care about. Hopefully, you are a bigger human being than that.

[+JL_HSTRE]

Based on what I've read in this thread, I would remove the cache. It doesn't seem to be worth the trouble/danger.

 

If I had the time, I might also look into the situation a little further such checking if the cache was placed on private property (property appraiser, especially if they have an online map feature).

 

It would also be good to make the local Reviewer aware of the situation if they are not already. It might be relevant for future cache placements in the area.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Joshism

[+emilymelonhead]

 

I hate to give up the cache just because of a grumpy old lady, but I also don't want to put anyone in danger. Other than suggesting that the cacher file a criminal complaint, what you you do?

 

Why ask? If you dont want to put other cachers in danger, pull it! I would hate to be the owner of a cache that someone warned me about a angry crazy lady nearby and I didnt pull it and someone got shot later.Think of your fellow cachers.

Of course, It wouldnt be a bad idea to make sure neighbors know about near caches and that there OK with them.

Wait! Can you give me the GC code?

[knowschad]

I hate to give up the cache just because of a grumpy old lady, but I also don't want to put anyone in danger. Other than suggesting that the cacher file a criminal complaint, what you you do?

 

Why ask? If you dont want to put other cachers in danger, pull it! I would hate to be the owner of a cache that someone warned me about a angry crazy lady nearby and I didnt pull it and someone got shot later.Think of your fellow cachers.

Of course, It wouldnt be a bad idea to make sure neighbors know about near caches and that there OK with them.

Wait! Can you give me the GC code?

It is in the very first post: GC23ZP8

[+TheLoneGrangers]

Chad if a neighbor came at me like this lady was said to have done, thats how I feel, now if she was a concerned neighbor and asked what I was doing, then I would feel differently and agree with most here that the cache should be moved or disabled.

Edited May 4, 2011 by TheLoneGrangers

[GOF and Bacall]

Chad if a neighbor came at me like this lady was said to have done, thats how I feel, now if she was a concerned neighbor and asked what I was doing, then I would feel differently and agree with most here that the cache should be moved or disabled.

 

The thing is that it isn't the person she came out and confronted that will have to endure her further confrontations. It is every cacher that follows. Would you really want to leave that for fellow cacheres to experience?

 

Besides, that isn't Chad. It's just some cacher who knows Chad. Although some claim he don't know Chad about nuth'n.

Edited May 4, 2011 by GOF and Bacall

[knowschad]

Chad if a neighbor came at me like this lady was said to have done, thats how I feel, now if she was a concerned neighbor and asked what I was doing, then I would feel differently and agree with most here that the cache should be moved or disabled.

"Came at you"? I didn't see any "came at you" about it. The way I imagine it, she pulled up in her car, probably for the n'th time, and told these people to skedaddle. I have no idea if it was her property, or not, but she wasn't happy about them being there, and to me, her privacy and sense of happiness is much more important than the rights of a few people to stop there and get a smiley. Look at the big picture. She feels invaded or she would not have gone to such extremes.

 

PS: I'm not "Chad".

Edited May 4, 2011 by knowschad

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Without more (hand gestures, resting your hand on the butt of the gun, pulling the gun out of the holster, etc.) the statement "I have a gun" does not seem to rise to the level of an assault or threat. For those of you who are keeping score at home, that's two police officers (Walts Hunting, Clan Riffster) and one attorney (me).

 

You might as well make that two attorneys.

 

Back in the day when I lived down a rural road, I once was in the sheriff's department on some business when a person who lived nearby came in to collect a rifle that had been taken into evidence in connection with a homicide (after a jury found the killing was in self defense). He was not the shooter in that case, but he owned the gun and ran his fingers down the barrel, looked at me, and said "You never know when this could be of use in the neighborhood." Now part of my business that day did have to do with him, and while that is another story, I will say that there are some people along country roads who tend to say things that would give the average person pause. The woman who encountered the cacher might be one of them.

 

(As an aside, even if the situation seems unlikely to escalate beyond words, I sometimes think about one of my favorite cases, People v. Gleghorn (1987) 193 Cal.App.3d 196, which warns about "the dangers of weaponry in the hands of unreasonable powers who become unduly provoked over minor irritations." It can happen.)

 

Now if someone like that did not appreciate my cache along the road, I would probably move it. There are some things that are worth taking a stand about, principles that are worth upholding even in the face of opposition. I don't think leaving a container by the side of the road is one of them, particularly if that cache might be on private property (even assuming that it could be within an easement).

As an Attorney you should know the laws vary across the country. I don't know where this is at but around here, telling someone you have a gun to get them to do as you wish is called Intimidation and is illegal. They do not need to show, touch or even own or possess a gun, the threat itself is illegal.

[+WRASTRO]

I certainly would not want to place and own a cache that would cause searchers to be confronted by neighbors or LEOs. If this was my cache I would move it or archive it. End of story.

[+geodarts]

As an Attorney you should know the laws vary across the country. I don't know where this is at but around here, telling someone you have a gun to get them to do as you wish is called Intimidation and is illegal. They do not need to show, touch or even own or possess a gun, the threat itself is illegal.

 

In California, where the incident occurred and I practice, the woman's statement would not be a criminal threat (PC 422) -- something that is unequivocal. immediate, specific, with a gravity of purpose, causing sustained fear. It would not be brandishing a weapon (PC 417) since she did not draw or exhibit the gun. Courts distinguish between "true threats" and hyperbole or emotional outbursts (which the laws against threats were not designed to punish).

 

So yes, under some circumstances, a statement about a gun could constitute a threat -- particularly if the person does something in conjunction with it. But in this situation? I don't see it rising anywhere near that level -- although I recognize that we know little about what actually happened.

Edited May 4, 2011 by mulvaney

[+power69]

Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also.

 

And bring a printout of the CCW thread with you to show her!

Bury her in 12 feet of computer paper? that'll do it.

[+TheLoneGrangers]

Chad if a neighbor came at me like this lady was said to have done, thats how I feel, now if she was a concerned neighbor and asked what I was doing, then I would feel differently and agree with most here that the cache should be moved or disabled.

"Came at you"? I didn't see any "came at you" about it. The way I imagine it, she pulled up in her car, probably for the n'th time, and told these people to skedaddle. I have no idea if it was her property, or not, but she wasn't happy about them being there, and to me, her privacy and sense of happiness is much more important than the rights of a few people to stop there and get a smiley. Look at the big picture. She feels invaded or she would not have gone to such extremes.

 

PS: I'm not "Chad".

 

knowschad,

 

If I am not on her property, I have as much right to be there as she does. I am not going to give up my rights because someone feels "invaded" on what may not even be her property. We can just agree to disagree I guess because my feelings won't change, and neither will yours.

[+A & J Tooling]

So, now we know. If you come across someone baking/making dope out in the boonies, stand your ground. Inform them you have every right to be there. They are in the wrong.

 

Some of you are gonna' get yourselves hurt (or worse) over trivial BS.

[knowschad]

Here is the Alemeda County GIS: http://www.acgov.org/assessor/maps.htm

 

East side of Dyer Road (where the cache is)

Parcel 99B-6051-1

Situs Address: DYER RD LIVERMORE 94550

Description: Rural property used for agriculture, 10+ acres

Mailing address: PO Box 6389, Santa Fe, NM

 

West side of Dyer Road (where the lady lives)

Parcel 99B-6075-3

Situs Address: 2766 DYER RD LIVERMORE 94550

Description: Rural property used for agriculture, 10+ acres

Mailing address: PO Box 6389, Santa Fe, NM

 

I am no GIS expert. Can anybody tell from this if the homeowner also owns the parcel on the west side of Dyer road?

[+geodarts]

If I am not on her property, I have as much right to be there as she does. I am not going to give up my rights because someone feels "invaded" on what may not even be her property.

 

What are the rights at issue? Even assuming that the cache is on a public right of way and that there is legal parking on the side of the road, then is the issue over the right to leave a container by the side of the road? As we have seen in other situations, the answer may depend on whether the agency responsible for the right of way gives permission. If the cache is on private property, do your rights change?

 

I don't have any interest in placing a cache where it will be a problem with neighbors regardless of whether the property is public or private. I suppose the CO could attempt to contact her, to explain the game, and assure her that no harm is intended -- and see if that eases the situation. But if I were her, I would figure out why people were stopping at that location and then call in a report to the sheriff that there is a suspicious object that may look like a bomb. Or simply remove the container as litter.

 

Now I have, in a situation unrelated to caching, told a resident who did not want me parking on a street -- who told me it would be unfortunate if my tires were slashed -- that I had a legal right to park for two hours and it would be unfortunate if I had to take action to protect that right. But I was not leaving a container in front of their property. And I knew enough about the person to judge the circumstances at issue. In contrast, if a person dressed in certain colors told me that I was parking on a shrine and had better move, I would do so without question.

 

Ultimately, I do not know why that particular spot might be so important that I would want to assert any right to cache there.

Edited May 4, 2011 by mulvaney

[+TheLoneGrangers]

Well I will agree that it IS trival.

[+Don_J]

Remove the caches and don't get involved.

 

It doesn't need to be 'her property'. She can be an annoyed neighbor who has the right to claim 'disturbing the peace' (or anything she wants).

 

The last thing this hobby needs is bad press. Avoid the situation completely. Silently walk away (with caches in hand) and preserve whatever peace there is left.

 

Disturbing the peace, a misdemeanor offense, does not give someone the right to commit assault with a deadly weapon. Under California law, "I have a gun" can be be charged as a felony if a gun is present

 

I look at this spot on Google Earth and I see a two lane Rd with a center line. It seems to be a short cut between two highways. The land around it seems to be dead. Of course the image is four years old.

[+Walts Hunting]

Remove the caches and don't get involved.

 

It doesn't need to be 'her property'. She can be an annoyed neighbor who has the right to claim 'disturbing the peace' (or anything she wants).

 

The last thing this hobby needs is bad press. Avoid the situation completely. Silently walk away (with caches in hand) and preserve whatever peace there is left.

 

Disturbing the peace, a misdemeanor offense, does not give someone the right to commit assault with a deadly weapon. Under California law, "I have a gun" can be be charged as a felony if a gun is present

 

I look at this spot on Google Earth and I see a two lane Rd with a center line. It seems to be a short cut between two highways. The land around it seems to be dead. Of course the image is four years old.

 

Thirty years as a California Peace Officer and I have never ever heard of that being done and SF is a pretty busy place. Can you cite the case?

[knowschad]

Remove the caches and don't get involved.

 

It doesn't need to be 'her property'. She can be an annoyed neighbor who has the right to claim 'disturbing the peace' (or anything she wants).

 

The last thing this hobby needs is bad press. Avoid the situation completely. Silently walk away (with caches in hand) and preserve whatever peace there is left.

 

Disturbing the peace, a misdemeanor offense, does not give someone the right to commit assault with a deadly weapon. Under California law, "I have a gun" can be be charged as a felony if a gun is present

 

I look at this spot on Google Earth and I see a two lane Rd with a center line. It seems to be a short cut between two highways. The land around it seems to be dead. Of course the image is four years old.

 

Assault with a deadly weapon? Where did that come from?

 

If you want to look at a map that matters, take a look at the County GIS map that I linked to in this thread.

[+hzoi]

Without more (hand gestures, resting your hand on the butt of the gun, pulling the gun out of the holster, etc.) the statement "I have a gun" does not seem to rise to the level of an assault or threat. For those of you who are keeping score at home, that's two police officers (Walts Hunting, Clan Riffster) and one attorney (me).

 

Given the facts as stated in post 1, this statement was not a criminal act.

 

How does your assertion factor in if the person making the statement is a CHL holder? In Texas that's a big no-no. Of course, you would have to prove or get them to admit they were packing when they made the statement.

 

It doesn't, because I was working off the facts as stated. No gun was seen, no concealed carry permit was flashed. If it was in Texas, they had a CHL, they were actually carrying, and they made such a statement, I would agree that they had violated the CHL rules. But those weren't the facts as given.

 

As an Attorney you should know the laws vary across the country. I don't know where this is at but around here, telling someone you have a gun to get them to do as you wish is called Intimidation and is illegal. They do not need to show, touch or even own or possess a gun, the threat itself is illegal.

 

I took a look at IC 35-45-2-1, the Indiana intimidation statute you're apparently referring to. I stand by my statement. There's nothing special about it that applies here -- basically it's a law against making threats. That statute specifically refers to communicating a threat, where "threat" is defined as "an expression, by words or action, of an intention to: (1) unlawfully injure the person threatened or another person, or damage property."

 

I'll say it again: the statement "I have a gun," without more, does not seem to rise to the level of assault or threat.

 

The common law on assault goes back hundreds of years. There has to be a present intent to injure in order to be an assault, and I don't see it here.

 

The classic case on assault is Tuberville v. Savage, from 1669. Tuberville and Savage were having words, and Tuberville, who was wearing a sword, put his hand on his sword and told Savage that, if the visiting judge hadn't been in town that day, he wouldn't take that kind of talk from Savage. ("If it were not assize-time, I would not take such language from you.") The court held that intention plus act makes an assault -- if Tuberville had just put his hand on his sword, it would have been an assault, a threat, if you will. But he showed that he had no present intent to injure Savage by his statement that he wasn't going to do anything because the judges were in town -- thus, no assault.

Edited May 5, 2011 by hzoi

[+Shelly69]

Im just wondering after reading this.. Has anyone, ever, taken a fruit cake or a bunch of flowers to the woman and EXPLAINED what is going on? (I would think the owner of the cache) It occurs to me (as a future crazy, old woman who lives alone), that she is indeed scared of what is going on by her house? Lets face it the world is a screwed up place and older people living alone have to be extra careful these days.

There is the possibility that if someone shows her what your doing she might stop being scared and start laughing at everyone looking for a box of "stuff" in the field...

It may be your right to cache where you want, but isnt it her right to know exactly what is happening by her house and not live in fear at the strange goings on near her home... or deal with a bunch of people turning around in her driveway? You dont know what others are doing when they are there.

If after explaining... and shes still angry.. moving it out of sight of her house would be a good idea. Why keep poking a beehive? Sooner or later your gonna get stung. Is it worth all this to have 1 cache is a certain spot?

 

Ok I said my piece which I dont usually do on here. I didnt mean to offend anyone. Hope I didnt.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Shelly69

[+A & J Tooling]

Im just wondering after reading this.. Has anyone, ever, taken a fruit cake or a bunch of flowers to the woman and EXPLAINED what is going on? (I would think the owner of the cache) It occurs to me (as a future crazy, old woman who lives alone), that she is indeed scared of what is going on by her house? Lets face it the world is a screwed up place and older people living alone have to be extra careful these days.

There is the possibility that if someone shows her what your doing she might stop being scared and start laughing at everyone looking for a box of "stuff" in the field...

It may be your right to cache where you want, but isnt it her right to know exactly what is happening by her house and not live in fear at the strange goings on near her home...

Ok I said my piece which I dont usually do on here. I didnt mean to offend anyone. Hope I didnt.

 

Now, now. let's not bring common sense into this argument. You're gonna' ruin all the fun. People should be awarded free year subscriptions or something when common sense prevails in a thread.

[+geodarts]

Im just wondering after reading this.. Has anyone, ever, taken a fruit cake or a bunch of flowers to the woman and EXPLAINED what is going on? (I would think the owner of the cache) .. moving it out of sight of her house would be a good idea.

 

You have to be careful with fruitcake. Many people take the position that if you see someone coming with fruitcake you have the right to shoot first and ask questions later. The famed decision of Betty Crocker v. Sara Lee was based in part upon this principle. Chocolate cake might work, though.

 

The people who met this woman apparently tried to let her know that it was a harmless game. And it has been suggested that if the CO wants to keep a cache there then he might try to reassure her and ease the situation, but I had not thought about adding flowers or cake into the equation. In fact, even if he moves the cache, a bunch of flowers and a note stating that no harm was intended would not hurt, as long as they were not picked from her yard.

Edited May 5, 2011 by mulvaney

[+TheLoneGrangers]

Ok. I actually took the time last night and really thought about this, (actually my 45 minute drive home from work), i took a look at the maps when I got home, hadn't done that previously, and I came to the conclusion that I was being too extreme with my comments, and I feel that Shelly has the best resolution over the situation. Also would like to add, that there is nothing wrong with debating our opinions, we all have different ones, as long as no one is being personnally attacked then no hard feelings.

Edited May 5, 2011 by TheLoneGrangers

[+Kameharem]

If you live your life in fear; the terrorists have won.

If you allow yourself to be bullied; the bullies will continue to bully others.

Someone has to stand up to this behaviour before freedom is a just a slogan and a memory.

IMO

[knowschad]

Im just wondering after reading this.. Has anyone, ever, taken a fruit cake or a bunch of flowers to the woman and EXPLAINED what is going on? (I would think the owner of the cache) .. moving it out of sight of her house would be a good idea.

 

You have to be careful with fruitcake. Many people take the position that if you see someone coming with fruitcake you have the right to shoot first and ask questions later. The famed decision of Betty Crocker v. Sara Lee was based in part upon this principle. Chocolate cake might work, though.

 

Actually, my thoughts is that she might get offended by what bringing a fruitcake might be implying about her.

[+A & J Tooling]

I actually like fruitcake. Why? It'll last forever and then some.

[+A & J Tooling]

If you live your life in fear; the terrorists have won.

If you allow yourself to be bullied; the bullies will continue to bully others.

Someone has to stand up to this behaviour before freedom is a just a slogan and a memory.

IMO

 

But, you're the one being a bully. She is in her part of the world and we're intruding on her. She feels threatened and intimidated and you're re-enforcing that behavior.

 

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.