+plugh1980 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 In a recent log to one of my caches,GC23ZP8, the finder tells me that they were threatened by a passerby. It seems that the lady said that, "she is the owner of the surrounding property and is TIRED of everyone coming for the 3 nearby caches! She states, I have a gun!". The cache is off the side of a road in a rural area. It is not on private property. There are no buildings within 750 feet. The other caches that she mentioned are even further away. I hate to give up the cache just because of a grumpy old lady, but I also don't want to put anyone in danger. Other than suggesting that the cacher file a criminal complaint, what you you do? Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Seems like you have two options: 1) Report her behavior to the police, who at best might go out and explain to her that she shouldn't be doing that, or 2) Pull your caches. The only option that is guaranteed to work is the second one. Quote Link to comment
+Ecylram Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I'd contact the police. Anyone in the area, geocacher or not, could be at risk. (Notifying the police doesn't require filing a formal complaint.) Quote Link to comment
+Jayman11 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Personally I would probably just pull them and move on. If she's crazy enough to make threats like that, she's probably crazy enough to go through with them. I wouldn't want to find out if she's bluffing or not. These days, chances are that she isn't bluffing. Quote Link to comment
+Sol seaker Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I would remove or move the caches. If the neighbors don't want the caches there, there is no sense fighting over where the property lines are... and chances are they may be right about them. Even if they are not on private property, it's not worth making the neighbors upset. It gives the people searching a lousy day, it gives geocaching a bad name, and chances are the caches will end up being muggled by the neighbors anyway. What have you got to gain by fighting the issue? Chances are if she says they are on private property, even if they look like they aren't, they probably are, so you will most likely lose the fight. Even if you win you still end up with caches in a hostile environment that are likely to be muggled anyway. Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 http://coord.info/GC23ZP8 Easy to find that one. My suggestion would be to remove the cache. There is a house across the street. Cachers are probably pulling off on the west side of the road to park in some instances. That sure does appear to be the property of that house. In this case, she would appear to be right and is probably tired of people stopping there at all hours. Quote Link to comment
+TerraViators Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. And bring a printout of the CCW thread with you to show her! The concept of turning the other cheek, btw, has nothing to do with it not getting slapped. Quote Link to comment
+A & J Tooling Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Standing your ground? WTF? Someone wants to get shot. Common sense isn't. Quote Link to comment
+Too Tall John Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The cache is off the side of a road in a rural area. It is not on private property. There are no buildings within 750 feet. The other caches that she mentioned are even further away. Just because it isn't Posted Property doesn't mean that it isn't Private Property, and I see absolutely no evidence that it is Public Property, so I'm curious how you back your claim that it isn't Private Property. Proximity to houses is irrelevant. I hate to give up the cache just because of a grumpy old lady, but I also don't want to put anyone in danger.Safety trumps ego. Just because you hate to do the safe thing doesn't mean you shouldn't do the right thing. Quote Link to comment
+Too Tall John Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also.The concept of turning the other cheek means that you are offering the other cheek to be slapped. It sounds like you've been surprised by that fact. Edited May 2, 2011 by Too Tall John Quote Link to comment
mresoteric Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Seems like you have two options: 1) Report her behavior to the police, who at best might go out and explain to her that she shouldn't be doing that, or 2) Pull your caches. The only option that is guaranteed to work is the second one. I do not have any hides, but I agree 100% with your assessment of this situation. Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 34 finds in over a year and she's concerned with additional traffic on her street? Guess that is why some people choose to live 'out there' and feel the need to announce the fact that they have a gun to complete strangers? I'd move the caches dude-it isn't worth the hassle for anyone. It's a big world with plenty of room to play and avoid the nutjobs too. Quote Link to comment
+Coldgears Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I would remove or move the caches. If the neighbors don't want the caches there, there is no sense fighting over where the property lines are... and chances are they may be right about them. Even if they are not on private property, it's not worth making the neighbors upset. It gives the people searching a lousy day, it gives geocaching a bad name, and chances are the caches will end up being muggled by the neighbors anyway. What have you got to gain by fighting the issue? Chances are if she says they are on private property, even if they look like they aren't, they probably are, so you will most likely lose the fight. Even if you win you still end up with caches in a hostile environment that are likely to be muggled anyway. I had a bad case of Deju Vu reading this. Too many "Chances are". Although as for the comment, I agree with it one-hundred, percent, move the cache, secondly, I also agree with the other commenters, somebody needs to tell the police, gun-threats are not a joking matter. Quote Link to comment
+Cpt.Blackbeard Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Actually the statement "I have a gun" used as a threat as it was is a criminal offense, the Police need to be notified before she decides that Hey, it scared away these people, lets see if what else I can accomplish with it. Quote Link to comment
+Coldgears Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Just too add, it seems that the cache is on a road where not many caches are. Why not move it down to another grate? Surely there is more then on grate, and if you move it to a grate out of her sight then she probably won't mind. Quote Link to comment
+Max and 99 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Standing your ground? WTF? Someone wants to get shot. Common sense isn't. I totally agree. Maybe the lady feels scared when she sees people near her property? Just pull the caches. It's not worth upsetting a neighbor and scaring cachers. Quote Link to comment
+ThePetersTrio Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Actually the statement "I have a gun" used as a threat as it was is a criminal offense, the Police need to be notified before she decides that Hey, it scared away these people, lets see if what else I can accomplish with it. My first thought as well. Move the cache but don't forget to notify the police. Threatening people with a gun is definitely a crime. Quote Link to comment
+Coldgears Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Just pull the caches. Is that an "S" in the "cache"? The other two caches are nowhere near her property, and she could'nt even have a clear view of them from her house. Unless she owns every house on the block and an invisible house near the cache at the end of the street. While I agree moving the one in view of her house, moving the others is a little-bit OVER exessive. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Seems like you have two options: 1) Report her behavior to the police, who at best might go out and explain to her that she shouldn't be doing that, or 2) Pull your caches. The only option that is guaranteed to work is the second one. I do not have any hides, but I agree 100% with your assessment of this situation. Yes, but do you own a gun? Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 34 finds in over a year and she's concerned with additional traffic on her street? 34 finds? How many hides? Quote Link to comment
+Lieblweb Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Remove the caches and don't get involved. It doesn't need to be 'her property'. She can be an annoyed neighbor who has the right to claim 'disturbing the peace' (or anything she wants). The last thing this hobby needs is bad press. Avoid the situation completely. Silently walk away (with caches in hand) and preserve whatever peace there is left. Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 In this instance I wouldn't provoke the crazy lady. Just get rid of the one cache near her property. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report it to the police and move the cache. While it isn't worth placing cachers and this woman in each others way anytime someone threatens people with a gun, even verbally , it should be brought to the authorities attention. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 In this instance I wouldn't provoke the crazy lady. Just get rid of the one cache near her property. Is anybody else picturing someone like this? Quote Link to comment
MisterEFQ Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I suggest you change the name to "Janie's Cache". Quote Link to comment
+Coldgears Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I suggest you change the name to "Janie's Cache". OMG, that was my first thought. The whole world's come undone. Quote Link to comment
+WRASTRO Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 In this instance I wouldn't provoke the crazy lady. Just get rid of the one cache near her property. Is anybody else picturing someone like this? I wasn't until now. Quote Link to comment
+Jayman11 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 i was picturing the Fratelli brothers mother from the Goonies. LOL Quote Link to comment
+TerraViators Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. And bring a printout of the CCW thread with you to show her! The concept of turning the other cheek, btw, has nothing to do with it not getting slapped. Yes, I understand the reference. That's my point, I refuse to let the other cheek get slapped. In Texas, if a person threatens with a gun, they can be arrested. They don't even have to brandish the weapon. Also, that won't work on any cacher packing with their CHL. My reply would be, "I have one, also." My original point is don't be bullied or intimidated by another human being. How is that bad advice? If you are not breaking the law, you do not have to move the cache or put up with gun threats for looking for the cache. Just my opinion on the subject. Of course, if you feel the need to move the cache, then I support that. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. And bring a printout of the CCW thread with you to show her! The concept of turning the other cheek, btw, has nothing to do with it not getting slapped. Yes, I understand the reference. That's my point, I refuse to let the other cheek get slapped. In Texas, if a person threatens with a gun, they can be arrested. They don't even have to brandish the weapon. Also, that won't work on any cacher packing with their CHL. My reply would be, "I have one, also." My original point is don't be bullied or intimidated by another human being. How is that bad advice? If you are not breaking the law, you do not have to move the cache or put up with gun threats for looking for the cache. Just my opinion on the subject. Of course, if you feel the need to move the cache, then I support that. Is that the advice they give you in the CHL/CCW classes? From what I hear, the advice is to back down until you can't possibly back down any further. What you are advocating is the very worst advice possible for someone carrying a deadly weapon. Quote Link to comment
+Coldgears Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. And bring a printout of the CCW thread with you to show her! The concept of turning the other cheek, btw, has nothing to do with it not getting slapped. Yes, I understand the reference. That's my point, I refuse to let the other cheek get slapped. In Texas, if a person threatens with a gun, they can be arrested. They don't even have to brandish the weapon. Also, that won't work on any cacher packing with their CHL. My reply would be, "I have one, also." My original point is don't be bullied or intimidated by another human being. How is that bad advice? If you are not breaking the law, you do not have to move the cache or put up with gun threats for looking for the cache. Just my opinion on the subject. Of course, if you feel the need to move the cache, then I support that. Is that the advice they give you in the CHL/CCW classes? From what I hear, the advice is to back down until you can't possibly back down any further. What you are advocating is the very worst advice possible for someone carrying a deadly weapon. Is this the reason why so many people are agaisn't it, not because it's bad, but because people don't know how to use what they are given? Quote Link to comment
mresoteric Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 If you are not breaking the law, you do not have to move the cache or put up with gun threats for looking for the cache. He doesn't have to move the cache, but it may be the best choice in this instance. I see the cache has 5 favorite votes, so there must be something special. If it's the location, then maybe he should stand his ground. If it's the cache placement, style, hide, etc., then perhaps he can move it and still retain the specialness while avoiding the conflict with the neighbor. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 If you are not breaking the law, you do not have to move the cache or put up with gun threats for looking for the cache. He doesn't have to move the cache, but it may be the best choice in this instance. I see the cache has 5 favorite votes, so there must be something special. If it's the location, then maybe he should stand his ground. If it's the cache placement, style, hide, etc., then perhaps he can move it and still retain the specialness while avoiding the conflict with the neighbor. Maybe he should just raise the difficulty level. Quote Link to comment
MisterEFQ Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) If you are not breaking the law, you do not have to move the cache or put up with gun threats for looking for the cache. He doesn't have to move the cache, but it may be the best choice in this instance. I see the cache has 5 favorite votes, so there must be something special. If it's the location, then maybe he should stand his ground. If it's the cache placement, style, hide, etc., then perhaps he can move it and still retain the specialness while avoiding the conflict with the neighbor. Maybe he should just raise the difficulty level. He just needs to add to the cache page: Needs TOTT - Bullet proof jacket. Edited May 2, 2011 by EhFhQ Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. And bring a printout of the CCW thread with you to show her! The concept of turning the other cheek, btw, has nothing to do with it not getting slapped. Yes, I understand the reference. That's my point, I refuse to let the other cheek get slapped. In Texas, if a person threatens with a gun, they can be arrested. They don't even have to brandish the weapon. Also, that won't work on any cacher packing with their CHL. My reply would be, "I have one, also." My original point is don't be bullied or intimidated by another human being. How is that bad advice? If you are not breaking the law, you do not have to move the cache or put up with gun threats for looking for the cache. Just my opinion on the subject. Of course, if you feel the need to move the cache, then I support that. Is that the advice they give you in the CHL/CCW classes? From what I hear, the advice is to back down until you can't possibly back down any further. What you are advocating is the very worst advice possible for someone carrying a deadly weapon. I used to teach CHL in Texas and you are absolutely correct. In my course, I had to teach (by law) that it was okay to shoot to protect tangible movable property or properly marked grounds (purple paint imagine that) BUT I leaned heavily on the psychological impact of taking a human life (over stuff or a territorial boundry) and that fun little clause- Civil penalties not withstanding.... Oh the horror stories I could tell. By the time you got outta my class, you think twice about shooting a paper target. The minute you tell someone you have a gun as a CHL holder, you have failed to conceal. See ya in court if ya say it to me. Of course, you'll probably see my gun before I see yours in that particular scenario. Showing and shooting are different things entirely. Quote Link to comment
+M 5 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Disable it. Suggest an attribute for firearms. Enable when the attribute gets put into use. Easy!!! Quote Link to comment
Andronicus Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. That is kind of the point of the statment "turn the other cheek"... Quote Link to comment
Night_Hiker Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) I'd pull the caches just for the safety of fellow cachers. Even though the women should still deserves to be hassled by the cops for here foolish actions. I don't understand why people are like that. They have nothing better to do in their lives then threatened and treat others poorly. She must be a very unhappy person, but you cant sympathize for ignorant people I know I dont Edited May 2, 2011 by Night_Hiker Quote Link to comment
+Walts Hunting Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Actually the statement "I have a gun" used as a threat as it was is a criminal offense, the Police need to be notified before she decides that Hey, it scared away these people, lets see if what else I can accomplish with it. 30 years in law enforcement. That is not a threat. The police would just go out and tell her to cool it but that is about it. We spend much of our time abating these kind of things and try not to clog up the courts with something this trivial. I would bet the cop would suggest you move it since it isn't worth the hassle. If you wanted her arrested you would have to sign a citizens arrest card opening yourself up for all kinds of legal hassles. Quote Link to comment
+Cpt.Blackbeard Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Actually the statement "I have a gun" used as a threat as it was is a criminal offense, the Police need to be notified before she decides that Hey, it scared away these people, lets see if what else I can accomplish with it. 30 years in law enforcement. That is not a threat. The police would just go out and tell her to cool it but that is about it. We spend much of our time abating these kind of things and try not to clog up the courts with something this trivial. I would bet the cop would suggest you move it since it isn't worth the hassle. If you wanted her arrested you would have to sign a citizens arrest card opening yourself up for all kinds of legal hassles. Depends on how it is said, said to threaten it is indeed a threat and it is a criminal offense in my area. Quote Link to comment
+Sol seaker Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. That is kind of the point of the statment "turn the other cheek"... Uh... I don't think so. It's from the bible. Look it up. Quote Link to comment
+Sol seaker Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Actually the statement "I have a gun" used as a threat as it was is a criminal offense, the Police need to be notified before she decides that Hey, it scared away these people, lets see if what else I can accomplish with it. 30 years in law enforcement. That is not a threat. The police would just go out and tell her to cool it but that is about it. We spend much of our time abating these kind of things and try not to clog up the courts with something this trivial. I would bet the cop would suggest you move it since it isn't worth the hassle. If you wanted her arrested you would have to sign a citizens arrest card opening yourself up for all kinds of legal hassles. Depends on how it is said, said to threaten it is indeed a threat and it is a criminal offense in my area. Yes, and so is trespassing, although you would be right to argue two wrongs don't make a right. We really don't know for sure whether this is on private property or not. Chances are that it is. There really aren't a lot of lots in CA that are not owned. Land is at a premium there not known in other states. (well except New York) The woman was probably feeling threatened herself. We have no idea of the actions of any other cachers in the past. Maybe she has some reason to feel threatened, we don't know. Maybe she gets robbed a lot. The point is that everyone is jumping on this woman and we don't know the whole story. We don't need to know the story though. We're in this for fun, not drama. Just move the caches and let's get on with our game. Quote Link to comment
+Cpt.Blackbeard Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Actually the statement "I have a gun" used as a threat as it was is a criminal offense, the Police need to be notified before she decides that Hey, it scared away these people, lets see if what else I can accomplish with it. 30 years in law enforcement. That is not a threat. The police would just go out and tell her to cool it but that is about it. We spend much of our time abating these kind of things and try not to clog up the courts with something this trivial. I would bet the cop would suggest you move it since it isn't worth the hassle. If you wanted her arrested you would have to sign a citizens arrest card opening yourself up for all kinds of legal hassles. Depends on how it is said, said to threaten it is indeed a threat and it is a criminal offense in my area. Yes, and so is trespassing, although you would be right to argue two wrongs don't make a right. We really don't know for sure whether this is on private property or not. Chances are that it is. There really aren't a lot of lots in CA that are not owned. Land is at a premium there not known in other states. (well except New York) The woman was probably feeling threatened herself. We have no idea of the actions of any other cachers in the past. Maybe she has some reason to feel threatened, we don't know. Maybe she gets robbed a lot. The point is that everyone is jumping on this woman and we don't know the whole story. We don't need to know the story though. We're in this for fun, not drama. Just move the caches and let's get on with our game. We weren't there, but if you were feeling threatened would you go outaside and confront them yourself or would you call the Police in on them? I'm not saying the cops would arrest her but they would know about her and would then be able to take any action they deemed necessary, including no action if they choose. Move the cache yes, but don't leave the job half finished and then see on the news two weeks later that she shot a jogger passing through. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. That is kind of the point of the statment "turn the other cheek"... Uh... I don't think so. It's from the bible. Look it up. I suspect you misunderstood what Andronicus was saying. I think what he was really trying to say was, "that is NOT the point". Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Actually the statement "I have a gun" used as a threat as it was is a criminal offense, the Police need to be notified before she decides that Hey, it scared away these people, lets see if what else I can accomplish with it. 30 years in law enforcement. That is not a threat. The police would just go out and tell her to cool it but that is about it. We spend much of our time abating these kind of things and try not to clog up the courts with something this trivial. I would bet the cop would suggest you move it since it isn't worth the hassle. If you wanted her arrested you would have to sign a citizens arrest card opening yourself up for all kinds of legal hassles. Depends on how it is said, said to threaten it is indeed a threat and it is a criminal offense in my area. I think I will listen to 30 years in law enforcement. Besides, whether or not it was a threat is going to be strictly the opinion of the persons that reported it, unless the woman is dumb enough to agree with them, when asked. Where's your witness? Quote Link to comment
+Fianccetto Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Report her to the police and hold your ground. If you are on a public road, nothing is illega. Don't be bullied. I often find that if you turn the other cheek, you just get that one slapped, also. That is kind of the point of the statment "turn the other cheek"... Yeah, eventually you run out of cheeks and they have either gotten to know you REALLY well by then and backed down or they want to go and wash their hands of you...and back down). Doesn't work so well with getting shot though, huh? It isn't nice to hear tell of a neighbour saying something like that, but if 35 people a year parked on my land to go rummaging around in the bushes nearby, I'd be pretty concerned too. Maybe she thinks they are checking out her property to rob her. Perhaps she is on a silver surfers website right now giving updates on the strange happenings along the road, getting advice about not backing down, or turning the other cheek. Quote Link to comment
+sword fern Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I strongly recommend you to report her to the police. Wait. I think you should report her to the police. But wait. Before reporting her to the police, ask the cacher who got threatened. If he/she is ok with it, go ahead. Quote Link to comment
+dakboy Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 But wait. Before reporting her to the police, ask the cacher who got threatened. If he/she is ok with it, go ahead. The police will take a firsthand "I got threatened" more seriously than "this guy I know was out for a hike and got threatened." Tell the cacher who got threatened to report it to the police. Quote Link to comment
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