Forget about "TFTC" logs...

[+Icenians]

I rarely log any GC finds online. Most of the GC's I do I do in the company of others and it's their company I'm there for, not the caches. I couldn't even tell you which caches I've done anymore. Occasionally I log a bunch but normally I just don't bother. The reason I don't bother is because the caches are rarely worthy of a log. Sometimes I log, sometimes I don't. If I enjoyed the cache I'll say so, if something stood out I'll write a longer log. If I think the cache was crap, I generally won't bother, yes there are exceptions to that when I foolishly and shamefully grabbed a motorway madness just to colour in a county for example. I've learnt that logging your true feeling about a cache gets you into all sorts of bother so now I just let GC caching and the good caches out there, and there are some, just sink into the mire of crud ones.

 

All I see in these types of threads are cache owners DEMANDING thanks and respect. In no other walk of life does one get respect or thanks by demanding it. You earn it!

[+Icenians]

Strange, but I rarely get tricked into lame caches. I've got no problem with critiquing a cache that needs maint. If you are consistantly finding those caches, then it sounds like a problem with the way you decide which caches to go for. If its a bad owner, that hides lame caches and doesn't maintain them, then post a log online about it, a NM or NA, but post something. The trend that is disturbing is the frequency of blank or tftc or short cnp logs. They are not just showing up on the crappy caches you are tricked into finding.

 

I rarely pick the GC caches I do. I rarely actually know the caches I do. I don't know who placed them, what they are called, or anything else about them. I just go along with my friends for the company. If I want a good cache then I look elsewhere and pick my caches with a bit more care. Today I had a blast doing just one cache. The owner got a pressy and a nice log.

[+Icenians]

I'm not saying that I post blank logs or do crappy caches etc, I'm saying that the finder has the right to log the cache their way and that the owner, in the main, get's the thanks they deserve and not the thanks they demand.

 

As I've said before the log is the opinion of the cache FINDER and not the opinion of the owner. The finders opinion is his opinion of your cache and so cannot be wrong. If the finder decided THEY felt your cache was not worthy of a longer log then that is their opinion. It isn't wrong, it cannot be wrong.

[knowschad]

All I see in these types of threads are cache owners DEMANDING thanks and respect. In no other walk of life does one get respect or thanks by demanding it. You earn it!

Where do you see anybody demanding thanks and respect? Just one link will satisfy my curiosity.

[+Icenians]

All I see in these types of threads are cache owners DEMANDING thanks and respect. In no other walk of life does one get respect or thanks by demanding it. You earn it!

Where do you see anybody demanding thanks and respect? Just one link will satisfy my curiosity.

 

OK, I'm not going to go crawling back through all these threads looking as I doubt I'll find anything to satisfy you on that front anyway. I'll rephrase it instead.

 

It seems to me as if some cache owners are expecting thanks and gratitude for placing a cache and that thanks and gratitude must come in some form that only they approve of.

 

Of course, having never had a blank log or a TFTC log as an owner I would actually know what that feels like so best I stop commenting

[+StarBrand]

....

The growing number of poor logs are already leading to a degradation of the game. There are some fantastic hiders out there who have stopped hiding because of that trend. For them it got to the point where it wasn't worth the effort to put the effort into a great cache only to get a bunch of tftc or blank logs.

 

Or let me put it another way.

 

Suppose you invite someone over for dinner and put a lot of effort into making a very nice meal.

 

The guest arrives, eats the meal, and then gets up and leaves without a word. That's a blank log.

 

If the guest eats, then gives a burp and leaves, that's a tftc.

 

If the guest thanks you for the meal, compliments your cooking, and offers to help clean up, well, that's a nice log.

 

Are you going to be motivated to put out the effort again for the first two?

 

Unfortunately, it seems that the trend has gotten to where it's considered a very polite thing if you at least burp...

 

Perfect analogy.

 

...and if you don't want to say thanks for the meal - at least have the courtesy to be grateful for the invitation to come over. And if you cannot do that - maybe just let me know how my house and yard look. Something.

[+BCandMsKitty]

The growing number of poor logs are already leading to a degradation of the game. There are some fantastic hiders out there who have stopped hiding because of that trend. For them it got to the point where it wasn't worth the effort to put the effort into a great cache only to get a bunch of tftc or blank logs.

 

Or let me put it another way.

 

Suppose you invite someone over for dinner and put a lot of effort into making a very nice meal.

 

The guest arrives, eats the meal, and then gets up and leaves without a word. That's a blank log.

 

If the guest eats, then gives a burp and leaves, that's a tftc.

 

If the guest thanks you for the meal, compliments your cooking, and offers to help clean up, well, that's a nice log.

 

Are you going to be motivated to put out the effort again for the first two?

 

Unfortunately, it seems that the trend has gotten to where it's considered a very polite thing if you at least burp...

 

Excellent analogy!

However, there are many in this world who feel they are entitled to a meal from you just because they are! They obviously feel that it is your job to hide caches for them because they want caches to hunt, and they deserve to be able to. Just don't ask for any comment from them concerning it!

I used to not like TFTC logs, but they're MUCH better than blank logs! Just to have the honour of having someone find my cache isn't thanks to me. (sarcasm intended)

If it all revolves around smart phone logging, then smart phone cachers, do me a favour and quit searching for my caches! I'd rather have no-one finding my cache than have my face figuratively slapped by a blank thankless log!

 

To those of you who think blank logs won't result in fewer caches, think again. If the trend increases, I'll be one who will simply pull my caches and not bother to hide more, and I'd bet there are lots more hiders who feel the same! I do not hide caches for the enjoyment of people who don't have the common courtesy to at least thank me for the "meal"!

Edited May 1, 2011 by BC & MsKitty

[+M 5]

Are LPC's bolonga sandwiches? Are broken/wet containers burnt food?

[+BCandMsKitty]

All I see in these types of threads are cache owners DEMANDING thanks and respect. In no other walk of life does one get respect or thanks by demanding it. You earn it!

 

I think it is more a demand for common courtesy, and in my opinion, that's the way it should be! And according to your own words, I'm right! I have to be.. it's my opinion. It isn't wrong, it cannot be wrong!

[+TerraViators]

I agree that blank e-logs are annoying, but cachers are not required to even record an e-log. Some may only write physical log entries and we'd never see them. At least a blank log lets us know that the cache was found that day.

[+BCandMsKitty]

Are LPC's bolonga sandwiches? Are broken/wet containers burnt food?

Could be, but I don't have any LPCs, and I maintain my caches very well, thank you.

[mresoteric]

Communications must be made clearly and consistently or readers will "read between the lines" for some context (as they do with all things they read).

 

If someone chooses to assume negative intents where none were proffered then that's really something that person needs to work through.

 

...I reminded him that I would only get an email notice of his blank log and wouldn't see his edited log unless I went looking for it...

Then it's your responsibility to check your page for logs. If submitting a blank log from the field and then editing it later works for him, he hasn't done anything wrong. No one should have to change their logging practices just because it would be more convenient for the CO if they did it a certain way.

Depends on your point of view. As a finder, the online log may be looked at as a logging mechanism for a smilie. As a cache owner - you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found. With 150+ active caches - I do not peruse them regularly to see if anybody has edited a previous log - and I am not notified of changes anybody makes. Thus, as a courtesy, I should strive to make my first 'find' loga note to the owner and as complete as possible.

 

Seriously? Now not only do I have to worry about the content of my log, but I have to make sure that I have it all good to go in the field because someone has more caches hidden than they can reasonably keep up with?

 

If you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found, then a blank log fulfills that requirement nicely.

 

If, however, you are really depending on the emails as a way to conveniently get your thanks and accolades, then I submit that you might put a little effort into checking your cache listings periodically. With the recent thread on bugs being marked missing, perhaps proper listing maintenance would head those issues off at the pass.

 

Either way, I find it ridiculous that someone would try to not only dictate to me what I put in my log but the manner in which I fullfill that order as well.

 

True. Buuuuuuuuut...

 

The growing number of poor logs are already leading to a degradation of the game. There are some fantastic hiders out there who have stopped hiding because of that trend. For them it got to the point where it wasn't worth the effort to put the effort into a great cache only to get a bunch of tftc or blank logs.

 

Or let me put it another way.

 

Suppose you invite someone over for dinner and put a lot of effort into making a very nice meal.

 

The guest arrives, eats the meal, and then gets up and leaves without a word. That's a blank log.

 

If the guest eats, then gives a burp and leaves, that's a tftc.

 

If the guest thanks you for the meal, compliments your cooking, and offers to help clean up, well, that's a nice log.

 

Are you going to be motivated to put out the effort again for the first two?

 

Unfortunately, it seems that the trend has gotten to where it's considered a very polite thing if you at least burp...

 

If you personally invite me into your home to partake of a meal with you, then you can be certain that I will properly acknowledge the effort put forth.

 

However, if you toss the food in a box and put it out on the sidewalk for anyone who might walk by to eat, then I cannot say what my response would be. If there is a nice filet minon in there with a juicy baked potata, I might leave you a thank you note. Otherwise, I might just grab a sandwich out of the box and be on my way.

 

Please understand that some of us may have a few more hides than you do. It woud take a lot of time to look at each and every cache page just to read the recent logs.

 

Then either you have too many caches or it isn't as big of a concern as you make it out to be. Couldn't it be said that this is lazy cache owning? (if blank logs = lazy finders)

[+BCandMsKitty]

I agree that blank e-logs are annoying, but cachers are not required to even record an e-log. Some may only write physical log entries and we'd never see them. At least a blank log lets us know that the cache was found that day.

 

Now that's where I get lost. In the area where it is stated that a physical log is required for a cache find, it also says to log online and share experiences, etc. Why is that part of the list of caching requirements ignored so much? If you ignore one part, you should be able to ignore other parts too, like the signing of the physical log! Leaving out part of it leads to the disintegration of the whole!

 

Forget it, I know I'm not going to win here, I just hate blank online logs!

Edited May 1, 2011 by BC & MsKitty

[+SooMukwas]

Some must be in it for the numbers game, I guess. Otherwise, why even waste any time to post a blank log?

[+StarBrand]

Communications must be made clearly and consistently or readers will "read between the lines" for some context (as they do with all things they read).

 

If someone chooses to assume negative intents where none were proffered then that's really something that person needs to work through.

 

...I reminded him that I would only get an email notice of his blank log and wouldn't see his edited log unless I went looking for it...

Then it's your responsibility to check your page for logs. If submitting a blank log from the field and then editing it later works for him, he hasn't done anything wrong. No one should have to change their logging practices just because it would be more convenient for the CO if they did it a certain way.

Depends on your point of view. As a finder, the online log may be looked at as a logging mechanism for a smilie. As a cache owner - you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found. With 150+ active caches - I do not peruse them regularly to see if anybody has edited a previous log - and I am not notified of changes anybody makes. Thus, as a courtesy, I should strive to make my first 'find' loga note to the owner and as complete as possible.

 

Seriously? Now not only do I have to worry about the content of my log, but I have to make sure that I have it all good to go in the field because someone has more caches hidden than they can reasonably keep up with?

 

If you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found, then a blank log fulfills that requirement nicely.

 

If, however, you are really depending on the emails as a way to conveniently get your thanks and accolades, then I submit that you might put a little effort into checking your cache listings periodically. With the recent thread on bugs being marked missing, perhaps proper listing maintenance would head those issues off at the pass.

 

Either way, I find it ridiculous that someone would try to not only dictate to me what I put in my log but the manner in which I fullfill that order as well.

 

True. Buuuuuuuuut...

 

The growing number of poor logs are already leading to a degradation of the game. There are some fantastic hiders out there who have stopped hiding because of that trend. For them it got to the point where it wasn't worth the effort to put the effort into a great cache only to get a bunch of tftc or blank logs.

 

Or let me put it another way.

 

Suppose you invite someone over for dinner and put a lot of effort into making a very nice meal.

 

The guest arrives, eats the meal, and then gets up and leaves without a word. That's a blank log.

 

If the guest eats, then gives a burp and leaves, that's a tftc.

 

If the guest thanks you for the meal, compliments your cooking, and offers to help clean up, well, that's a nice log.

 

Are you going to be motivated to put out the effort again for the first two?

 

Unfortunately, it seems that the trend has gotten to where it's considered a very polite thing if you at least burp...

 

If you personally invite me into your home to partake of a meal with you, then you can be certain that I will properly acknowledge the effort put forth.

 

However, if you toss the food in a box and put it out on the sidewalk for anyone who might walk by to eat, then I cannot say what my response would be. If there is a nice filet minon in there with a juicy baked potata, I might leave you a thank you note. Otherwise, I might just grab a sandwich out of the box and be on my way.

 

Please understand that some of us may have a few more hides than you do. It woud take a lot of time to look at each and every cache page just to read the recent logs.

 

Then either you have too many caches or it isn't as big of a concern as you make it out to be. Couldn't it be said that this is lazy cache owning? (if blank logs = lazy finders)

 

So I am suppose to troll through all of my cache listings (some of which are 9 years old with over 400 logs) and just hope that on the off chance I might accidently spot an edited log that I had not previously seen because some cachers are too dang lazy to thumb out a few words to take away a few precious moments of caching in the field!!!???!!! Thanks for clarifying that it not just my perception of a blank log but in fact some cachers are being lazy and inconsiderate - thinking of their logging habit more than caring about any polite notions.

Edited May 1, 2011 by StarBrand

[+RobDJr]

If you personally invite me into your home to partake of a meal with you, then you can be certain that I will properly acknowledge the effort put forth.

 

However, if you toss the food in a box and put it out on the sidewalk for anyone who might walk by to eat, then I cannot say what my response would be. If there is a nice filet minon in there with a juicy baked potata, I might leave you a thank you note. Otherwise, I might just grab a sandwich out of the box and be on my way.

 

If you're hungry and a buddy tosses you a day-old bologna sandwich, a 'thanks, bud' would suffice. That's your basic, unimaginative lpc or guardrail at a big box store type cache.

 

If your buddy serves up grilled burgers and cold beer, you'd make sure he knows you appreciate it. That's a good, solid cache with an ammo box at the end.

 

A well-though out cache with a background story, multiple stages of creative hides and a few twists, which keeps you entertained all the way to the end, well jeez. That's when your buddy serves up steak and baked potatoes with quality beer, scintillating conversation, and tops it off with cheesecake. And at the end of all that, maybe it's just me, but you'd darn well better leave no doubt how much you enjoyed that.

 

I try to always say something in my logs, if only as a way to thank the person who made the effort to put out something for others to enjoy. I know not everyone will do that, and some people can't, and that's OK. But even a minimal amount of effort in a short log can go a long way towards making a cache owner happy.

 

There's a pretty big upside to keeping cache hiders happy. Blank logs and TFTC's just won't do that.

[+crazysnowbdr]

I never leave a blank log I always post something about the log how it is looking, if the log sheet is full or if anything needs to be replaced. I also thank them for the cache and sending me on a great hike. I think every cache owner should be thanked if it wasn't for them you wouldn't be out there. If you don't give a good log you are just plain rude

[knowschad]

All I see in these types of threads are cache owners DEMANDING thanks and respect. In no other walk of life does one get respect or thanks by demanding it. You earn it!

Where do you see anybody demanding thanks and respect? Just one link will satisfy my curiosity.

 

OK, I'm not going to go crawling back through all these threads looking as I doubt I'll find anything to satisfy you on that front anyway. I'll rephrase it instead.

 

It seems to me as if some cache owners are expecting thanks and gratitude for placing a cache and that thanks and gratitude must come in some form that only they approve of.

 

Of course, having never had a blank log or a TFTC log as an owner I would actually know what that feels like so best I stop commenting

 

In that case, please don't be making accusations or hyperbole that you can't back up, lest you be as bad as those that you are criticizing, OK? I have seen no demands being made at all, and I am not seeing any expectations of thanks being made of the sort that you claim. What I am seeing is disappointment being registered at certain forms of non-logging. We, as cache owners, have every right to express that disappointment, don't we?

[+EXMAN]

As have many others, I have put a lot of time and effort into presenting the best cache I can to the Geocaching public.

In return, I would hope to recieve a comment that says my efforts are appreciated to some degree.

 

A TFTC at least says something, even "no comment" would say something, but a blank log?, A blank log says nothing at all.

I would rather a log say "expletive deleted" than say nothing at all.

I have too much time, effort and resources invested in the program to be ignored, or perhaps disrespected would be a better word for it.

 

That said, I am not going to stop geocaching nor am I going to lose any sleep over it, but I don't have to like it upon getting a blank log.

 

WELL SAID !

[+BCandMsKitty]

 

If you personally invite me into your home to partake of a meal with you, then you can be certain that I will properly acknowledge the effort put forth.

 

However, if you toss the food in a box and put it out on the sidewalk for anyone who might walk by to eat, then I cannot say what my response would be. If there is a nice filet minon in there with a juicy baked potata, I might leave you a thank you note. Otherwise, I might just grab a sandwich out of the box and be on my way.

 

But don't you see it? I AM personally inviting anyone who reads my cache page! I'm even telling you where to look for it!

I certainly wouldn't expect a muggle, or anyone just walking by to thank me.

[+EvilTree]

No one should have to change their logging practices just because it would be more convenient for the CO if they did it a certain way.

 

True. Buuuuuuuuut...

 

The growing number of poor logs are already leading to a degradation of the game. There are some fantastic hiders out there who have stopped hiding because of that trend. For them it got to the point where it wasn't worth the effort to put the effort into a great cache only to get a bunch of tftc or blank logs.

 

Or let me put it another way.

 

Suppose you invite someone over for dinner and put a lot of effort into making a very nice meal.

 

The guest arrives, eats the meal, and then gets up and leaves without a word. That's a blank log.

 

If the guest eats, then gives a burp and leaves, that's a tftc.

 

If the guest thanks you for the meal, compliments your cooking, and offers to help clean up, well, that's a nice log.

 

Are you going to be motivated to put out the effort again for the first two?

 

Unfortunately, it seems that the trend has gotten to where it's considered a very polite thing if you at least burp...

 

That is an awesome analogy!! It should be stuck at the top of the forum. It should be sent out in Groundspeak's next newsletter. Amen!

 

+1

[mresoteric]

 

If you personally invite me into your home to partake of a meal with you, then you can be certain that I will properly acknowledge the effort put forth.

 

However, if you toss the food in a box and put it out on the sidewalk for anyone who might walk by to eat, then I cannot say what my response would be. If there is a nice filet minon in there with a juicy baked potata, I might leave you a thank you note. Otherwise, I might just grab a sandwich out of the box and be on my way.

 

But don't you see it? I AM personally inviting anyone who reads my cache page! I'm even telling you where to look for it!

I certainly wouldn't expect a muggle, or anyone just walking by to thank me.

 

No you're not. You're essentially placing a sign up pointing the general public towards the cache.

 

From time to time local charities put on fundraisers. Most of the time it's just advertised to the public. When I go I may or may not buy something or give a donation. But ever so often, a friend or business client will send me a personal invitation. I am much more likely to give a donation or buy something then.

[mresoteric]

So I am suppose to troll through all of my cache listings (some of which are 9 years old with over 400 logs) and just hope that on the off chance I might accidently spot an edited log that I had not previously seen because some cachers are too dang lazy to thumb out a few words to take away a few precious moments of caching in the field!!!???!!! Thanks for clarifying that it not just my perception of a blank log but in fact some cachers are being lazy and inconsiderate - thinking of their logging habit more than caring about any polite notions.

 

If you are that concerned about getting thanked, then yes, take the time to go through your cache listings.

 

If you just want to know it was found, then the blank log lets you know that.

[+M 5]

There are a few newbies that will read these types of threads and adjust their way of thinking. The others on here that are pro crappy, blank or short cnp logs will never "get it". I doubt most of them will be active members of the geocaching community and most will not give back by placing many, if any, caches. Not worth the effort to educate them. I am more concerned about groundspeaks actions towards this trend and their lack of action to attempt to curb it.

[+Flintstone5611]

Some must be in it for the numbers game, I guess. Otherwise, why even waste any time to post a blank log?

 

 

Edited to add nothing.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Flintstone5611

[mresoteric]

The others on here that are pro crappy, blank or short cnp logs will never "get it".

 

It's not that black and white. Some of us are not so much Pro Crappy, blank or short cnp log as we are just not Pro Dictation of Caching Practices.

[+M 5]

The others on here that are pro crappy, blank or short cnp logs will never "get it".

 

It's not that black and white. Some of us are not so much Pro Crappy, blank or short cnp log as we are just not Pro Dictation of Caching Practices.

 

.

[+BuckeyeClan]

There are a few newbies that will read these types of threads and adjust their way of thinking. The others on here that are pro crappy, blank or short cnp logs will never "get it". I doubt most of them will be active members of the geocaching community and most will not give back by placing many, if any, caches. Not worth the effort to educate them. I am more concerned about groundspeaks actions towards this trend and their lack of action to attempt to curb it.

 

What exactly do you expect Groundspeak to do? I really don't think they want to get into the business of judging what is or isn't a satisfactory log. Sure, they can remove the ability to post a blank log from the smartphone apps, but then people will just post tftc or ".".

[knowschad]

If you personally invite me into your home to partake of a meal with you, then you can be certain that I will properly acknowledge the effort put forth.

 

However, if you toss the food in a box and put it out on the sidewalk for anyone who might walk by to eat, then I cannot say what my response would be.

If you passed it up, I wouldn't expect a thing from you.

[+boda]

There are a few newbies that will read these types of threads and adjust their way of thinking. The others on here that are pro crappy, blank or short cnp logs will never "get it". I doubt most of them will be active members of the geocaching community and most will not give back by placing many, if any, caches. Not worth the effort to educate them. I am more concerned about groundspeaks actions towards this trend and their lack of action to attempt to curb it.

 

What exactly do you expect Groundspeak to do? I really don't think they want to get into the business of judging what is or isn't a satisfactory log. Sure, they can remove the ability to post a blank log from the smartphone apps, but then people will just post tftc or ".".

+1

I don't want Groundspeak to dictate the way I log a cache. It's just that simple. That being said, I don't agree with blank logs and will never leave one.

[+BCandMsKitty]

 

If you personally invite me into your home to partake of a meal with you, then you can be certain that I will properly acknowledge the effort put forth.

 

However, if you toss the food in a box and put it out on the sidewalk for anyone who might walk by to eat, then I cannot say what my response would be. If there is a nice filet minon in there with a juicy baked potata, I might leave you a thank you note. Otherwise, I might just grab a sandwich out of the box and be on my way.

 

But don't you see it? I AM personally inviting anyone who reads my cache page! I'm even telling you where to look for it!

I certainly wouldn't expect a muggle, or anyone just walking by to thank me.

 

No you're not. You're essentially placing a sign up pointing the general public towards the cache.

 

From time to time local charities put on fundraisers. Most of the time it's just advertised to the public. When I go I may or may not buy something or give a donation. But ever so often, a friend or business client will send me a personal invitation. I am much more likely to give a donation or buy something then.

 

Yes I am .. I absolutely am. You have to join geocaching and log in to get the coordinates. I don't put them out there for the general public.

[mresoteric]

Yes I am .. I absolutely am. You have to join geocaching and log in to get the coordinates. I don't put them out there for the general public.

 

Did anyone invite you to respond to this thread or were you reading the forums, saw a post you wanted to respond to and posted?

[+roziecakes]

I saw it, and got it immediately. Yes, it was personally aimed at mresoteric.

 

That's too bad that he felt that way I for one am glad that mresoteric is posting, it's nice to have intelligent contributions from a new cacher. However, I don't feel that the post was that bad. Mresoteric; the folks on this forum are very opinionated, and that's a good thing. I know I've learned a lot from them. Try not to take it personally.

 

Anyhoo, back to the OP. I prefer to read longer logs, but I'm not terribly concerned that people don't post them. Some people can't type very fast, or don't have a lot of time, or have some other reason why they don't post long logs; no matter. As for blank logs, I do have to admit it bothers me a little, and it has become more prevalent since people started logging from their phones. However, I think the greater majority of cachers will still post at least TFTC; so I don't feel like it's much of a problem, and I don't think I'd delete a log if someone did it.

 

If it did happen, I'd probably take it as a hint that my cache needed to be more interesting.

Edited May 2, 2011 by nymphnsatyr

[+BCandMsKitty]

Yes I am .. I absolutely am. You have to join geocaching and log in to get the coordinates. I don't put them out there for the general public.

 

Did anyone invite you to respond to this thread or were you reading the forums, saw a post you wanted to respond to and posted?

I had to have a user ID and log in. Thus I have an implied invitation to join in any thread I wish to. Anyway, all that is completely beside the point.

 

The bottom line is It is a poor person who can't take the time to thank anyone for something they have presented for them. Is a simple "thanks for the cache" too much to ask?

Apparently so.

I've only been bantering words here because I have nothing better to do. Guess I'll quit wasting my time here, and go do something constructive and watch something mindless on TV.

[knowschad]

So I am suppose to troll through all of my cache listings (some of which are 9 years old with over 400 logs) and just hope that on the off chance I might accidently spot an edited log that I had not previously seen because some cachers are too dang lazy to thumb out a few words to take away a few precious moments of caching in the field!!!???!!! Thanks for clarifying that it not just my perception of a blank log but in fact some cachers are being lazy and inconsiderate - thinking of their logging habit more than caring about any polite notions.

 

If you are that concerned about getting thanked, then yes, take the time to go through your cache listings.

 

If you just want to know it was found, then the blank log lets you know that.

 

You know, if you had at least one hide, I would find it a little easier to listen to that sort of advice. You really should wait until you have some experience as a cache owner before you start giving cache owners advice about such things. You may just find that you have a whole different view of things.

[mresoteric]

Yes I am .. I absolutely am. You have to join geocaching and log in to get the coordinates. I don't put them out there for the general public.

 

Did anyone invite you to respond to this thread or were you reading the forums, saw a post you wanted to respond to and posted?

I had to have a user ID and log in. Thus I have an implied invitation to join in any thread I wish to.

 

The point is that anyone can read these forums, but you do need an account to post. Anyone can use geocaching.com to search for caches but you do need an account to get coordinates and post a find. When you list a cache on this site, it is not a personal invitation to look for it.

 

Editing because I don't think what I was saying was clear. You do not have to have a user id to peruse either these forums or search for geocaches. They are viewable to the general public. You only need a membership id if you want actual coordinates or to post.

Edited May 2, 2011 by mresoteric

[+StarBrand]

So I am suppose to troll through all of my cache listings (some of which are 9 years old with over 400 logs) and just hope that on the off chance I might accidently spot an edited log that I had not previously seen because some cachers are too dang lazy to thumb out a few words to take away a few precious moments of caching in the field!!!???!!! Thanks for clarifying that it not just my perception of a blank log but in fact some cachers are being lazy and inconsiderate - thinking of their logging habit more than caring about any polite notions.

 

If you are that concerned about getting thanked, then yes, take the time to go through your cache listings.

 

If you just want to know it was found, then the blank log lets you know that.

 

Not talking thanks here - not what I expect to read. Just a few polite comments about the cache state, the hide spot, your journey there, the logsheet, the weather, how your sister was feeling - something - some acknowledgement that you were actually there and had some amount of thought in your head when you signed the logsheet and bothered to log it as a find online. You know - words.

 

I took the time to pick out a spot, camo paint the cache, do a write up, get coordinates, buy a logbook, put in some swag, maintain the thing, read the notification email logs and try to be nice. All I ask in return is a few real words typed online - they do not even have to be nice. If that is expecting too much, then I have badly misunderstood this little activity of ours for over 9 years now.

Edited May 2, 2011 by StarBrand

[mresoteric]

So I am suppose to troll through all of my cache listings (some of which are 9 years old with over 400 logs) and just hope that on the off chance I might accidently spot an edited log that I had not previously seen because some cachers are too dang lazy to thumb out a few words to take away a few precious moments of caching in the field!!!???!!! Thanks for clarifying that it not just my perception of a blank log but in fact some cachers are being lazy and inconsiderate - thinking of their logging habit more than caring about any polite notions.

 

If you are that concerned about getting thanked, then yes, take the time to go through your cache listings.

 

If you just want to know it was found, then the blank log lets you know that.

 

You know, if you had at least one hide, I would find it a little easier to listen to that sort of advice. You really should wait until you have some experience as a cache owner before you start giving cache owners advice about such things. You may just find that you have a whole different view of things.

 

But I don't need to have any hides to read the reason being given by current cache owners as to why they don't like blank logs and now why they don't like good logs which happen to be edited in later with an initial blank log up front.

 

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache. I'm just saying that he doesn't have to. A blank log let's him know his cache was found, unless I am missing something that only a cache owner is aware of.

[knowschad]

So I am suppose to troll through all of my cache listings (some of which are 9 years old with over 400 logs) and just hope that on the off chance I might accidently spot an edited log that I had not previously seen because some cachers are too dang lazy to thumb out a few words to take away a few precious moments of caching in the field!!!???!!! Thanks for clarifying that it not just my perception of a blank log but in fact some cachers are being lazy and inconsiderate - thinking of their logging habit more than caring about any polite notions.

 

If you are that concerned about getting thanked, then yes, take the time to go through your cache listings.

 

If you just want to know it was found, then the blank log lets you know that.

 

You know, if you had at least one hide, I would find it a little easier to listen to that sort of advice. You really should wait until you have some experience as a cache owner before you start giving cache owners advice about such things. You may just find that you have a whole different view of things.

 

But I don't need to have any hides to read the reason being given by current cache owners as to why they don't like blank logs and now why they don't like good logs which happen to be edited in later with an initial blank log up front.

 

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache. I'm just saying that he doesn't have to. A blank log let's him know his cache was found, unless I am missing something that only a cache owner is aware of.

 

You do not yet know the reality of the cache owner's experience. Until you do, you should be listening and learning, not teaching and preaching.

 

edit to add:

Yes, you are missing something that only a cache owner is aware of. That is called pride of ownership. Someday, if the hides that you place, when you place them, are quality hides, you will probably feel that as well.

 

In addition to that, there are lesser things that are still important to know... a group of teenagers saw the cacher rehiding the cache. The cache was found out in the open and had to be rehidden, using the hider's best guess of where it should go. Various things that don't really require a NM log, but are still important for a cache owner to know.

Edited May 2, 2011 by knowschad

[+StarBrand]

....

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache.

...

Where did I say that?? I said I didn't want to troll through to find later (possible, maybe) edits.

[mresoteric]

You do not yet know the reality of the cache owner's experience. Until you do, you should be listening and learning, not teaching and preaching.

 

Who is teaching and preaching? So basically, since I haven't hidden a cache I need to shut and go sit in the corner? My opinion has no validity here?

 

I possess a reasonable ability to read and understand other people's posts. I also possess a reasonable ability to understand a wide range of topics for which I have no direct personal experience.

 

We are not discussing rocket science. We are essentially discussing cache owner's logging preferences vs cache finder's logging preferences. Opinions. That's all it is. And mine is just as valid as anyone else's because I have logged caches and I know a number of other people who have logged caches as well. I have every right to give my "opinion" on finder laziness vs owner's unreasonable expectations.

 

For the record, I do understand your stance. I just don't agree with it.

[mresoteric]

....

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache.

...

Where did I say that?? I said I didn't want to troll through to find later (possible, maybe) edits.

 

Depends on your point of view. As a finder, the online log may be looked at as a logging mechanism for a smilie. As a cache owner - you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found. With 150+ active caches - I do not peruse them regularly to see if anybody has edited a previous log - and I am not notified of changes anybody makes. Thus, as a courtesy, I should strive to make my first 'find' loga note to the owner and as complete as possible.

[+StarBrand]

....

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache.

...

Where did I say that?? I said I didn't want to troll through to find later (possible, maybe) edits.

 

Depends on your point of view. As a finder, the online log may be looked at as a logging mechanism for a smilie. As a cache owner - you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found. With 150+ active caches - I do not peruse them regularly to see if anybody has edited a previous log - and I am not notified of changes anybody makes. Thus, as a courtesy, I should strive to make my first 'find' loga note to the owner and as complete as possible.

 

Gee thanks for pointing out where I talked about looking for edited logs....

 

Got anything for the question I asked??

[+M 5]

You do not yet know the reality of the cache owner's experience. Until you do, you should be listening and learning, not teaching and preaching.

 

Who is teaching and preaching? So basically, since I haven't hidden a cache I need to shut and go sit in the corner? My opinion has no validity here?

 

I possess a reasonable ability to read and understand other people's posts. I also possess a reasonable ability to understand a wide range of topics for which I have no direct personal experience.

 

We are not discussing rocket science. We are essentially discussing cache owner's logging preferences vs cache finder's logging preferences. Opinions. That's all it is. And mine is just as valid as anyone else's because I have logged caches and I know a number of other people who have logged caches as well. I have every right to give my "opinion" on finder laziness vs owner's unreasonable expectations.

 

For the record, I do understand your stance. I just don't agree with it.

 

[mresoteric]

 

edit to add:

Yes, you are missing something that only a cache owner is aware of. That is called pride of ownership. Someday, if the hides that you place, when you place them, are quality hides, you will probably feel that as well.

 

Perhaps you are right. I won't really know until I hide a cache. However, I have high degree of confidence that I will probably be like some of the more easy going cachers that have chimed in on this subject. While I will probably cherish the great logs, I doubt I will get worked up much over the less than average logs. It's just not my nature and I understand there are a multitude of reasons other than laziness to account for such logs.

[mresoteric]

....

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache.

...

Where did I say that?? I said I didn't want to troll through to find later (possible, maybe) edits.

 

Depends on your point of view. As a finder, the online log may be looked at as a logging mechanism for a smilie. As a cache owner - you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found. With 150+ active caches - I do not peruse them regularly to see if anybody has edited a previous log - and I am not notified of changes anybody makes. Thus, as a courtesy, I should strive to make my first 'find' loga note to the owner and as complete as possible.

 

Gee thanks for pointing out where I talked about looking for edited logs....

 

Got anything for the question I asked??

[knowschad]

You do not yet know the reality of the cache owner's experience. Until you do, you should be listening and learning, not teaching and preaching.

 

Who is teaching and preaching? So basically, since I haven't hidden a cache I need to shut and go sit in the corner? My opinion has no validity here?

 

I possess a reasonable ability to read and understand other people's posts. I also possess a reasonable ability to understand a wide range of topics for which I have no direct personal experience.

 

We are not discussing rocket science. We are essentially discussing cache owner's logging preferences vs cache finder's logging preferences. Opinions. That's all it is. And mine is just as valid as anyone else's because I have logged caches and I know a number of other people who have logged caches as well. I have every right to give my "opinion" on finder laziness vs owner's unreasonable expectations.

 

For the record, I do understand your stance. I just don't agree with it.

 

I am trying to be as respectful as I can about this, mresoteric. Yes, you are obviously an intelligent and well-spoken man. And no... this is not rocket science. And I have looked at a few of your logs and I know that you are not a "TFTC" type of logger (or worse, blank logs). I am not trying to alienate you. But, honestly... you have 28 finds and 0 hides, and you are trying to tell people with hundreds of hides how they should feel, and what they should do, about something that you have no experience at yet.

 

Ever hear that saying, "Walk a mile in my shoes"?

Edited May 2, 2011 by knowschad

[+StarBrand]

....

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache.

...

Where did I say that?? I said I didn't want to troll through to find later (possible, maybe) edits.

 

Depends on your point of view. As a finder, the online log may be looked at as a logging mechanism for a smilie. As a cache owner - you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found. With 150+ active caches - I do not peruse them regularly to see if anybody has edited a previous log - and I am not notified of changes anybody makes. Thus, as a courtesy, I should strive to make my first 'find' loga note to the owner and as complete as possible.

 

Gee thanks for pointing out where I talked about looking for edited logs....

 

Got anything for the question I asked??

 

Ok then......

 

You know if all I ever got was TFTC and/or blank logs over the past 9 years - I gaurantee you that my hide count would be closer to 10. That is about I can say.......

[+M 5]

....

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache.

...

Where did I say that?? I said I didn't want to troll through to find later (possible, maybe) edits.

 

Depends on your point of view. As a finder, the online log may be looked at as a logging mechanism for a smilie. As a cache owner - you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found. With 150+ active caches - I do not peruse them regularly to see if anybody has edited a previous log - and I am not notified of changes anybody makes. Thus, as a courtesy, I should strive to make my first 'find' loga note to the owner and as complete as possible.

 

Gee thanks for pointing out where I talked about looking for edited logs....

 

Got anything for the question I asked??

 

Ok then......

 

You know if all I ever got was TFTC and/or blank logs over the past 9 years - I gaurantee you that my hide count would be closer to 10. That is about I can say.......

10..........you are a Pillar of Strength. I would have 0. I already have numerous ideas and several partial completed containers that I haven't felt like finishing. Not just because of this issue, but it doesn't help.

[mresoteric]

you are trying to tell people with hundreds of hides how they should feel, and what they should do, about something that you have no experience at yet.

 

No I'm not. I am giving you my perspective. There are several people including yourself who have continually called people that post short or blank logs lazy.

 

All I have attempted from the beginning is to offer you an alternative perspective. A lot of posters feel that these logs are either a slight against them or that the person posting the log is lazy. I say that is not the only explanation. I've already detailed a number of times why I feel this way. You just don't happen to agree with my assessment. And that is ok. I respect your opinion. I would just like it if you would a least acknowledge that my opinion has some validity.