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CacheFreakTim

Webcam Geocaches?

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Does anyone know why Webcam caches are no longer offered? These are a cool spin on traditional Geocaches and now with everyone having smart phones they make more sense than ever.

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It is true, they don't technically fall under the definition of a geocache; although I think they're fun! I love the ones I have found.

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According to the Lillypad they are no longer Geocaches :( Never got around to finding one but the I always felt they were a neat idea. :grin:

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Does anyone know why Webcam caches are no longer offered? These are a cool spin on traditional Geocaches and now with everyone having smart phones they make more sense than ever.

 

Because people wouldn't wear the required "trackable shirts" in the webcam images. :laughing:

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Probably because they fell into the ALR category -- you know, that category of EVIL, which required people to do more than log "TNLNSL TFTC!"

 

I find them quite fun. Some are highly challenging (usually due to the unreliability of the cam operator) but it adds to the game, just like having to climb up some mountain trail to find an ammo box (the utter nerve!)

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Does anyone know why Webcam caches are no longer offered? These are a cool spin on traditional Geocaches and now with everyone having smart phones they make more sense than ever.

 

It was decreed when Waymarking.com went online (late Summer of 2005) that they weren't Geocaches, and no more were accepted. So they are listed on Waymarking.com, or there are many alternative Geocaching websites that still list them. And at all these places, they get very little traffic.

 

Makes more sense with the smartphone explosion? Not really, Webcams are notorious for going offline for months at a time, and sometimes forever. B)

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they make more sense in the smart phone era in that you can view the webcam while on site and take the picture while on site...you do not need a person to call or a laptop anymore.

 

Not sure I could log it and attach the picture on site with such a phone, but perhaps one can.

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Does anyone know why Webcam caches are no longer offered? These are a cool spin on traditional Geocaches and now with everyone having smart phones they make more sense than ever.

 

What is or isn't a geocache can and is a separate debate altogether, but if we broaden the definition of a geocache as "something you find", I would say that you ARE finding something with a webcam cache. An area, yourself, etc. :anibad:

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Does anyone know why Webcam caches are no longer offered? These are a cool spin on traditional Geocaches and now with everyone having smart phones they make more sense than ever.

 

What is or isn't a geocache can and is a separate debate altogether, but if we broaden the definition of a geocache as "something you find", I would say that you ARE finding something with a webcam cache. An area, yourself, etc. :anibad:

 

That is true, and you do use a GPS to navigate to the webcam cache.

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Webcam caches were a neat idea, but many people did not feel they were really geocaches. The idea of geocaches is to use a GPS to find something hidden at particular location. It is not to use the GPS to go to a location then call a friend to capture your picture using a webcam pointed at that spot.

 

In the early days of geocaching the site was more open to various ideas like this. Virtual caches were allowed where you would use a GPS to find an existing object and take its picture or answer questions in lieu of signing logs. Locationless (or reverse) caches were listed where you would find something and then post the coordinates where you found it. Webcams were another experiment along these lines.

 

These various caches each brought its own set of problems and issues to geocaching. Webcams were not a problematic as the others, still there were issues with webcams being offline (either temporarily or permanently) and with the quality of some captures where you could not actually tell if the "finder" was in the picture. These were not as serious as the problems with virtuals and locationless caches (IMO). Still, when Groundspeak rolled out the Waymarking site as a solution for virtual and locationless caches, they decided to include a Webcam Waymarking category and asked that new webcam sites be listed on Waymarking.com

 

Many geocachers are quite happy to limit geocaching to its core definition and have these other games relegated to a different site. Others see the grandfahered caches and wonder why they can't put out new ones. Some find the Waymarking site a bit confusing (since it is set up to handle almost anything that can be identified through a GPS location) and hard to use if you want to visit webcam sites (or any other categories) along with finding geocaches (which are not listed on the Waymarking site).

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Earthcaches and events aren't geocaches, either.

If you define a geocache as something that has a logbook then events are caches. All the events I go to have logbooks.

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Earthcaches and events aren't geocaches, either.

If you define a geocache as something that has a logbook then events are caches. All the events I go to have logbooks.

Lots of things have logbooks but are not geocaches: commercial and navy ships, aircraft, amateur radio operators, some office buildings, etc. Besides, I've attended plenty of events where there was no logbook.

 

EarthCaches, events, GPS Adventures Mazes, and even webcams and virtual caches are geocaches because Groundspeak has designated them as such.

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they make more sense in the smart phone era in that you can view the webcam while on site and take the picture while on site...you do not need a person to call or a laptop anymore.

 

Not sure I could log it and attach the picture on site with such a phone, but perhaps one can.

 

I knew how to do it on my Blackberry, but got a new Android phone just before a trip and did not know how to do it. I ended up taking a photo of the camera screen. The picture was lousy. Later my daughter showed me how to save a picture.

 

I've done a few webcam caches and they were all pretty fun to do.

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Earthcaches and events aren't geocaches, either.

((Checks the fact that I'm posting int he Geocaching Discussions - an area for which I'm not a moderator))

 

I've long since advocated removing Earthcaches from this portion of the site, and thus removing their find count, and have ALWAYS been against events having a find count.

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I love webcam caches and there is a webcam near me keeping an eye on a village pond witch would have been perfect as people could be seen without any disturbance to the pond or wildlife. I think it’s stupid I would have to join another website just to do them! GPS coordinates are still given to go to the point. It’s up to the people going there if they use them or not.

Bring them back I say. It was something a bit different than doing 1 after another traditional cache

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I think it’s stupid I would have to join another website just to do them!

The same login you use on geocaching.com also works on Waymarking.com and all other Groundspeak sites.

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We just logged our 1st Webcam in mid April while in Newport Beach, CA at the Balboa Fun Zone I. If it were not for the webcam, we may not have met a geocacher (bigdaddygrc) and his family from the High Desert. He had seen us on the dock area facing the webcam. When I saw us in line for the whale watching tour and I had put my phone away, he asked if we were Geocachers. We struck up a conversation regarding mostly about geocaching of course. I had mentioned we had just reached our 500th Find earlier in the month. Later, after boarding the boat, George (bigdaddygrc) presented me with his 500th Find pin his brother had given to him when he reached his 500th Find, which was hundreds of caches ago.

We've kept in touch via email or messages ever since. In fact, I learned his buddy who had captured the webcam photo was having some difficulty finding or loading the photo. I went to the site, found the webcam photo and forwarded it to George.

Although webcam's may not be an actual or physical cache, I met a very cool geocacher and his family.

IMHO, that tops a container and a log sheet!

 

Chuck

CacheKidz!

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When I was first introduced to geocaching it was explained to me that a geocache basically has 2 components, the log book and the opportunity to trade items. Regardless of the merit or lack there of in that definition, it has sort of stuck for me. In that sense, I would say webcams aren't caches but I would also say that nanos aren't either, because you can't trade.

 

All that being said, I enjoy both of them. I don't go out of my way to track down webcams to log, unless they're part of a challenge but the one I did was fun. If I ever get bored with the array of things on the GC.com site, I may branch out to Waymarking, benchmarking etc but, for now, I'm fine with what's on the one site to keep me entertained.

 

One argument for not having webcams is that I would be a little annoyed if there I tried to hide a physical cache and was unable to because there was a webcam too close.

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Is it permitted (to get a listing on geocaching.com) to have an accepted cache type that includes a requirement to upload a photo from a webcam?

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Is it permitted (to get a listing on geocaching.com) to have an accepted cache type that includes a requirement to upload a photo from a webcam?

 

No, not for a new cache listing. The requirement to upload a webcam photograph would be an ALR ("Additional logging requirement") which is no longer allowed. You can suggest that finders might like to do so, but that's all.

 

MrsB

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35 minutes ago, dennistubaplayer said:

Isn't it possible to still hide a webcam but label it as a mystery? I thought I read that somewhere

 

 

There would still be a container and a log required for a Mystery cache.  And, the cache owner could not require that a finder must post a webcam photo capture - that would be an additional logging requirement.  I suppose the webcam could focus the cacher to the area shown in the webcam, as ground zero for a container search, but the coordinates would do the same thing (since meaningful GPS use would be required).  To get around the GPS requirement, the container shown in the webcam view could contain coordinates for a final second stage container, but that would be a multi-cache.

 

So, I am curious where you read this, and how it would work.

Edited by Keystone
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This is what I read. All credits go to The vinny and sue team for teaching me this.

 

A note to the OP: While it is true that webcam caches have been eliminated as a cache type, it is still entirely possible, and in fact, quite easy, to place a webcam-involved cache as follows:

 

Emplace a cache container at or near the area surveyed by a webcam of your choice, and list the cache as an additional logging requirement (ALR) cache, that is, as a "?" type, which is a category which subsumes ALR caches as well as mystery/puzzle caches. Then, on both the cache listing page and on notes in the logbook and in small cards which you will place inside a small ziplock bag inside the cache, you will explain that this cache is an ALR cache, and that the additional logging requirement is that anyone wishing to claim a find must not only sign the logbook, but must also upload to their find log entry on the cache listing page an image (a screen shot) taken from the webcam site of the finder standing at a specified spot within the range of the webcam. You see, the primary complaint about the webcam cache type was that the "caches" did not employ a cache container and did not require signing a logbook (in fact, there was no logbook to sign...), whereas the ALR approach described above neatly takes care of all these loose ends.

 

 

 

Edited by dennistubaplayer
typo
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7 minutes ago, dennistubaplayer said:

I have never tried this myself- can you still add ALRs?

 

No, what you described above will not be allowed, either the person who wrote it has misunderstood the current rules, or it was written a very long time ago.

 

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7 minutes ago, dennistubaplayer said:

I have never tried this myself- can you still add ALRs?

No, you can't. Additional Logging Requirements haven't been allowed for years. They were not grandfathered in existing caches either.

 

See also the Help Center article Additional logging requirements (ALR).

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31 minutes ago, dennistubaplayer said:

so I can't make the webcam a requirement, only a sugestion?

 

That's correct but perhaps that is allowed (ask your reviewer):

 

Put out a hard but solvable mystery cache with the webcam's name and offer anyone using the webcam a hint. It might be a "bonus cache" to a traditional cache at the webcam's position.

Then there are two ways to solve it: the hard way solving it on your own (this way must exist!) and the easy way using the webcam and getting the hint (or the final coordinates directly).

 

That would make the suggestion still a suggestion but you could offer the people something for following the suggestion. ;-)

 

Or - and that's allowed for sure - offer anyone a cold drink if you meet them at an event and they used the webcam!? Cheers!

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3 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

No, what you described above will not be allowed, either the person who wrote it has misunderstood the current rules, or it was written a very long time ago.

 

It's been a very long time since I've seen Vinny and Sue post.

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13 hours ago, dennistubaplayer said:

So an ALS (additional logging sugestion?)

 

You can suggest taking a webcam shot but it cannot be compulsory or enforced and a normal signature log would still be required for the find. If you do suggest it, be prepared for a heap of selfies.

Edited by colleda
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5 hours ago, dennistubaplayer said:

Emplace a cache container at or near the area surveyed by a webcam of your choice, and list the cache as an additional logging requirement (ALR) cache,

Can't do.

5 hours ago, dennistubaplayer said:

anyone wishing to claim a find must not only sign the logbook, but must also upload to their find log entry on the cache listing page an image (a screen shot) taken from the webcam site

Can't do.

Sorry for the bad news.

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If the listing implies that the intended and proper way to the cache is to solve the puzzle, you could add on a side note that anyone who posts a Note to the listing with a selfie at the webcam will receive a hint.  But that means it has to be clear it's optional, someone not doing it can't have their find deleted, choosing that route means they could potentially wait a long time for contact from the CO with a hint, and even then your reviewer would still need be convinced it's an approvable idea.   But it's certainly an interesting way to get people possibly using a webcam. Technically, that doesn't even have to a webcam - do that for any very difficult puzzle cache. Could be a good alternative for unchallenges too.

 

Might be interesting to see what TPTB think, if a cache in question has a ridiculous crazy puzzle, and ends up 500 Finds from people who've posted 499 Notes with webcam pics, and 1 person who solved the puzzle. Might raise questions about intent of the cache, legitimacy of the DT ratings, etc... Kind of like Liar caches. 

 

I'll tell ya though, this is an interesting line of thought....

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2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

If the listing implies that the intended and proper way to the cache is to solve the puzzle, you could add on a side note that anyone who posts a Note to the listing with a selfie at the webcam will receive a hint.  But that means it has to be clear it's optional, someone not doing it can't have their find deleted, choosing that route means they could potentially wait a long time for contact from the CO with a hint, and even then your reviewer would still need be convinced it's an approvable idea.   But it's certainly an interesting way to get people possibly using a webcam. Technically, that doesn't even have to a webcam - do that for any very difficult puzzle cache. Could be a good alternative for unchallenges too.

 

Might be interesting to see what TPTB think, if a cache in question has a ridiculous crazy puzzle, and ends up 500 Finds from people who've posted 499 Notes with webcam pics, and 1 person who solved the puzzle. Might raise questions about intent of the cache, legitimacy of the DT ratings, etc... Kind of like Liar caches. 

 

I'll tell ya though, this is an interesting line of thought....

I think we may be on to somepthing :) I will contact my reviewer and ask if this is acceptable. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 3:19 PM, NYPaddleCacher said:

It's been a very long time since I've seen Vinny and Sue post.

 

Indeed.  I miss Vinny's posts - it earned me combat pay as a moderator, but as a geocacher those posts were wildly entertaining.

 

Additional Logging Requirements were prohibited beginning in April 2009.  There is always that risk when reading super-old forum posts.

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11 hours ago, Keystone said:

 

Indeed.  I miss Vinny's posts - it earned me combat pay as a moderator, but as a geocacher those posts were wildly entertaining.

 

 

 

Especially when Sioneva was posting around the same time.  She was posting in another forum I read for awhile, give day-by-day updates on her hike of the Appalachian trail. 

 

I remember when the ALR rule when into effect.  I had recently done an island cache where the CO had asked for people post their online logs in pirate speak.  I realize that was just the kind of cache which the ALR guideline was trying to address but a lot of people were having fun with that one.  I even included a photoshop picture when I found it with an eye patch and parrot on my shoulder. 

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I did notice at least one of the new virtual reward caches that had the logging requirement to capture a picture of yourself on the webcam at the location.

 

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