+The Leprechauns Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 I'm working with other Pennsylvania geocachers to develop a workable policy for placing caches in State Parks with permission from the Park manager. Our ongoing efforts are achieving success! (For details, see this thread in the Northeast forum.) In doing research for this project, I noticed that many other discussions have taken place, with varying results. It seems like we keep re-inventing the wheel with each land manager. I would like to request that a separate forum area be established just for keeping track of the cache placement policies in various States, Counties, Cities, etc. A separate forum means that future cache placers will know where to go to read about the rules. Postings in the regional or general forums tend to slide off the front page into history, and people are less likely to go search for them. It is important to follow the policy once a cooperative land manager reaches an agreement with concerned geocachers. The forum would also help in mobilizing campaigns to allow caching in places that presently prohibit it. Finally, you can point a ranger or park supervisor to a specific area in the forums to show what their colleagues are doing in other places. Also in my research, I noted that this is not a new request. Before Markwell goes and does a search of the old forums, I hasten to add that this idea was suggested in June of 2001 by, well, Markwell. It was a good idea then, and it's a good idea now. I have collected dozens of links to threads discussing this issue in the regional forums. If we don't have a new forum, I will post a master index in the General forum. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x- "Daddy, are we there yet? No, .17 to go. Are we there yet? No, .16 to go....." Link to comment
+Markwell Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 ...and a year later, we're finally getting results too. The reason I suggested that (I did? I don't remember that one!) was that we were working hard with a county Forest Preserve District. They basically said no. Now, a year later, they've seen what good Geocaching can be, and they want us there, under guidelines. Still not official yet, but it is looking promising. One catalyst was the Cleveland Metroparks. Check out what they've done! Markwell Chicago Geocachers Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted July 30, 2002 Author Share Posted July 30, 2002 What, you mean you don't remember each and every one of your 857 forum postings? To give credit where credit is due, in this old thread Markwell wrote on June 12, 2001: quote: Thanks for posting these type of conversations in this area. It will undoubtably help our cause in the Chicago area if we have others' experiences on which to draw. Maybe Jeremy should open a new forum, specifically for positive interactions with Park Services. I was glad to hear your progress report on your local situation. And yes, Cleveland Metroparks is a shining example of cooperative geocaching. We were going to point the PA State officials to Cleveland as an example, but people like MissJenn, QuestMaster, Mikechim, Smoochnme, Puppyman, Cachier, Team Grayrun and others were so persuasive in their letter writing and face-to-face meetings with rangers, we never needed to do that! The point is, someone facing the Park permission issue for the first time in Anytown, Any State ought to be able to EASILY find past discussions and positive examples in places like Cleveland, Maryland and so forth. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x- "Daddy, are we there yet? No, .17 to go. Are we there yet? No, .16 to go....." [This message was edited by The Leprechauns on July 31, 2002 at 07:50 PM.] Link to comment
+worldtraveler Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 It would also be a good place to post templates of letters that have been used successfully in obtaining permission for cache placements. Worldtraveler Link to comment
+MissJenn Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 by the Leprechauns: quote: I have collected dozens of links to threads discussing this issue in the regional forums. If we don't have a new forum, I will post a master index in the General forum. I noticed that when the Benchmarking Section was added, someone (Jeremy? Elias? an angel?) kindly transfered all relevant threads into the new section. Perhaps this list that the Leprechauns have already compiled would be a great help -- IF a new section is, in fact, born. ----- You must be present to win. Link to comment
+Markwell Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 My 857 current postings aren't the problem. It was the 1200 (yes, 1200) posts prior to forum conversion that I don't remember as well. This thread has my post count at 1282. Markwell Chicago Geocachers Link to comment
+SherwoodForest Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 I also second the motion for a regulations/permit topic. I'm really happy with the policy that Cleveland Metroparks has in place (Congrats to Carly), but it would be helpful if we had some place to gather all the info (I've been following the PA park thread, but only because I regularly check the NorthEast pages because I do some caching in western PA. It would also be good to have who the contacts are for different regions. I'm struggling with that right now, because I have a series of virtual, on-trail caches planned for Cuyahoga Valley National PArk, but I don't want to get them mad at us (again), but I don't know who to talk to there (my e-mail to their catch-all e-mail addy seems to have gone unnoticed...) "You will kneel before her in her altar in the trees" - Tara MacLean, Let Her Feel The Rain Link to comment
+SherwoodForest Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Okay, time for an update. I finally have a name for a person(s) to contact about policy regarding virtual geocaching in CVNP. I am going to call this person tomorrow and get a dialogue going with her about virtual geocaching, and hopefully good things will happen, and the other 4 virtuals that I and another local geocacher have planned will be appearing soon. And I'll let this forum know what happens (unless we get our own category before then ) "You will kneel before her in her altar in the trees" - Tara MacLean, Let Her Feel The Rain Link to comment
iryshe Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Geocaching Activists? We've been considering ways of creating technology around this idea. One thought is to request a shapefile (which is basically a digital map) from each park of the areas they manage, and acquire their policy. That way you can visualize what areas have policies on a map, as well as contact info, etc. It's also a good way for planning to see all the areas that may be off limits (or allowed). Obviously we would need a map server, but we're getting close to acquiring one. We do want to create tools for this effort but we're overwhelmed, and I doubt the park systems would pitch in to help us out. They're underbudgeted and understaffed as it is. But they'll have to at least take some initiative so we know their stance on the sport/hobby/etc. I suppose this is a post to let you know that we have thought about it, and we are considering options to address it. But from here it looks like the community is doing a heck of a lot of positive work already to put a good face on this hobby. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Link to comment
+Markwell Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 We're not really activists - that sounds too much like "extremist" which we are, but we can't demonstrate our insane addiction and be taken seriously by park personnel. The shape files would be nice, but I think all we're looking for is a place where people can tell their success stories. What tipped the scales in the balance of having a park accept Geocaching vs. deny it? Then people who are fighting their own smaller battles can learn from others. The eventual end product might be a basic template of a workable method of trying to procure permission. Of course, that template would have to be tailored for the individual situation. This forum could also have emblazoned across the top National areas (National Parks) and their stance (nothing but virtual). Markwell Chicago Geocaching Link to comment
+worldtraveler Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):We've been considering ways of creating technology around this idea... Jeremy, Like so many others, I appreciate the fact that you're thinking "outside the box" and looking for the ultimate fix; but what we're requesting here is a simple interim solution requiring no (or very little) additional cost/time. Please just add a new forum that can be used as a common repository for ideas, communications, templates, published policies, contact names, etc. that will aid us in our attempts to acquire permission from land managers. It can help geocaching have a consistent, unified voice when speaking to authorities, thereby increasing our credibility; and it may aid the authorities in developing/changing policies if they know there is a forum available where they can find published policies used by other land managers and where they can post their own with reasonable assurance they will be read by the target audiences. And IF we keep it civil, it could even become a "town hall" where land managers will feel comfortable soliciting feedback regarding proposed policies before they enact them or perhaps even ask for our help in developing them. Worldtraveler Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted August 3, 2002 Author Share Posted August 3, 2002 for responding here and for letting us in on your ideas. The map tool is too cool for school. I agree with Worldtraveler... it ought to be easy to give us a forum now, and then a fancy page on the main site later on after the 67 other "priority items" are implemented on the site. You could use the info. collected from the forums to seed the new "official contact" area. Let the USERS collect the info from the parks! We really need both... a forum to debate and lobby and complain and applaud the positions of the various land managers, and report progress on developing policies (or lack of progress)... then the final policies get published in some sort of orderly way on a page in the main site. Thanks for listening everybody. NOW... I am late getting started on a cache trip to 3 state parks this weekend! x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x- "Daddy, are we there yet? No, .17 to go. Are we there yet? No, .16 to go....." Link to comment
+MissJenn Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Markwell:geocaching advocacy that has a nice ring to it. Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted October 2, 2002 Author Share Posted October 2, 2002 The idea of having a place on the geocaching site where permission policies can be collected and discussed continues to surface in the many regional threads that discuss the cache placement policies of various land managers. So, I'm renewing this request. Not sure where a "geocaching advocacy" section fits in on the list of site improvements, but at least it's on the list.... x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x- It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. Link to comment
+Markwell Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Heh - the site moves about as fast as the bureaucratic red tape around here. I am having a meeting on MONDAY with the DuPage County people about placing their first official Geocache. Markwell Chicago Geocaching Link to comment
Pubo Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 In addition to a forum, (I know...first thing's first) how about a zipcode lookup database for park personel contact info. The database could have a field containing any status information on placing caches in the area. If it's allowed, are permits required, who to contact for a go-ahead...etc. Possibly the meeting schedules for the local advisory commitees, contact phone numbers... Anything and everything that's pertinent to getting approval for the community without having every (twelth) cacher contact them with an individual request. Link to comment
+gonini Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Hola ! I'm new in Geocaching, and already starting to love it. I want to cooperate in the promotion of this sport in my area (Monterrey, Mexico), and I already have a couple of ideas to go plant caches, but I was wondering: I don't believe the US rules for National Parks apply here in Mexico. Actually, rock climbers out there will know what I'm talking about; we get lots of US rockclimbers here just because of the fact that there are no rules prohibiting building new, permanent trails (hammering nails on the climbing rocks) here in Mexico. So anyway, my question is: if there is no rule against planting an cache in a national park here in Monterrey (known as Chipinque, a cool place with lots of trails suitable for caches!), could I still plant some, despite the fact that the park charges about 10 pesos (that's about the equivalent of a US dime...) for the entrance? And what about caches planted in places where you would have to travel on a toll road to get there? Does the "commercial" restriction apply in any of these two cases? Thanks in advance for your response! AH! One suggestion: Have you thought about a "cache mission" to "geocaching developing" countries? Maybe the folks at the border (Texas, New Mexico, Arizona) could help us promote Geocaching in Mexico by organizing expeditions to come and plant more caches in places other than Baja and Cancún Have fun! Take time to laugh, it's the music of the soul. My Last Dove Chocolate Link to comment
+Jennifer&Dean Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Just wanted to ask if there was going to be a forum/database of the different policies. It would be nice to have access to a bunch of different ones to scan through and examine. Searching for the info brings up lots of posts that all ask the same thing: "has anybody heard". Just wondering. -Jennifer Nothing is really work unless you would rather be doing something else. (JM Barrie) Link to comment
+ict X ckr Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Seems like a good place to say, the state of Kansas does not require permits or permission to place a cache in any state park (this from a e-mail from the State). They do ask to be respectful of the areas, a very small fee indeed. Link to comment
+Smitherington Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Regarding the email sayint that Kansas state parks require no permission or permits: Is that in an email to you? Can you provide a copy of that email? In attempting to get permission from a township park board near here, that would be interesting info to add. Thanks. Link to comment
+briansnat Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I started a similar thread, but instead of park policies, it's about park managers, rangers, etc... who have positive things to say about Geocaching. Here is the link. Something like this may be able to convince local land managers of the benefits of our sport. "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" - Abraham Lincoln Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ict X ckr:Seems like a good place to say, the state of Kansas does not require permits or permission to place a cache in any state park (this from a e-mail from the State). They do ask to be respectful of the areas, a very small fee indeed. Way to go! How's that little song go?.."Everything's up-to-date in Kansas City...." Alan Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 The recent outstanding work done by the Geocachers in Arkansas in getting a workable policy for their State Parks provides a good excuse for me to renew this request for some type of a centralized place to publish and discuss the permission policies of various land managers. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return? Link to comment
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