Cut N Paste Logs

[+bflentje]

My inherent laziness leads me to be a copy/paster. Here's my log from a recent weekend long event, as an example:

 

Page 1 of 2

 

It was a dark and stormy night...

Except... It wasn't dark... or stormy... or even night...

But if Snoopy can start all his tales that way, why can't I?

 

Friday afternoon brought the whole herd to Green Swamp. Vince & Janet, of Flatouts, Mark & Peggy of The Jailbirds, Jody, AKA JACMyth, and yours truly, the ole fat crippled guy with the smelly hat, descended upon Dade City for a weekend of food, finds and fellowship.

 

We started with "S'more Time in the Green Swamp, where we schmoozed, and tortured Peeps, roasting them slowly over a hot fire before squishing them between two Graham crackers, along with a bit of chocolate. A suitable death for those evil pink and purple buggers! Death to the Peeps! Fully sated, we gathered at the Hampton for some rest, before diving right back into the schmoozing at the "2nd Annual FGA Geo-Extravaganza" Saturday morning. Marc & Mimi of M&M Melted fame played Master of Ceremonies, getting us started on a rousing game of geobingo, then turning us loose on a unique version of Boggle, where we had to find 5 unlisted caches containing trinkets, which we exchanged for rounds of Boggle. Sadly, I never stood a chance. Being Svottish pretty much excludes me from any game that requires even a modicum of intellect. Still, I had fun staring at all the letters, pretending I knew how to ferret out words from the jumble. I was fortunate, in that a few cachers took pity on me, pointing out a few words, so at least I didn't end with a score of zero. Thanx guys!

 

As we hunted the boggling containers, we opted to snag a few real caches along the way, scoring finds on "M&M-222 Acorn, All Growed Up", which highlighted the amazing oak trees that call this park home, "Creek Village Micro", which brought us to replicas of several early American structures, including a round, pointy one that looked like a perfect place for hippies to gather. A bit further along brought us to "M&M-223 Holy Oak, Batman", which was at a way kewl tree which looked like it tried growing a branch at some point in the distant past, then gave up, calling the branch back into itself, leaving a neat photo opportunity. We drifted over to a copse of trees near a pond, where we conversed with a friendly frog by the name of "Croaked".

 

When I read the next cache page on our list, "GP B-Day", I perked right up. An ammo can! At a scenic spot! Whoo Hoo!! I dropped in a Clan Riffster Pathtag to mark my passage, then continued on to "Slope". Another ammo can! Holy Carp! You guys are gonna spoil me! I dropped another Pathtag, then moved onto a micro, (yes, Riffsters sometimes hunt micros), at a most cache worthy spot. "Tower Two Step" turned into tower forty step, 'cuz I had to take in the view from the top. The breeze way up there, combined with the scenery, made this breathtaking! The clock was ticking, so we had to say goodby to the tower, heading back to the event. As we neared the pavilion, we noticed another green box getting closer, realizing we had passed up a cache, "M&M-221 Gobble Gobble Oak" on our way in. What a kewl custom container! All it lacked was an overweight caterpillar smoking a hooka!

 

To be continued...

 

Page 2 of 2

 

With smiles on our faces, and smilies in our Garmins, we commenced with the most important part of the day for us fat guys; the food! There was so much wonderful grub, that anyone going home hungry had only themselves to blame. As the crowd thinned out, I talked the crew into accompanying me on a multi, "Sometime Wetland". Meg felt sorry for me, as she knew how bad I was at math, and went with us as a guide to correct my mistakes. Once we got to the damp part of the trail, the crew opted for the smarter, drier route, whilst I waded right in, feeling right at home. As I got close, and the trail grew dry, the crew joined me in the hunt. We eventually located the well hidden cache, and I once again got to bask in the WHOOSH-CLUNK of an ammo can being opened. Ahhh... There ain't nothin' like it! The crew again opted for the dry route as we headed out, but I couldn't leave the swamp without at least taking a look around, chasing a huge, camera shy woodpecker all over the place before giving up and returning to the real world. As I was sloshing around in the muck, the rest of the guys scored a find on "End of the Road". I added my name to the log before it was replaced, then we hit the road, ending up at a picturesque little restaurant, Kafe Kokopeli, in honor of the Flatouts wedding anniversary. I can say, with all the qualifications of a fat guy, that this place is worth a visit. After stuffing ourselves stupid, (a short trip for a Riffster), we were ready to go back to the hotel, till Vince mentioned that there was a cache nearby. By the light of a single Mini-Mag, "Peek-A-Boo, I See You" was found. We gave a hearty wave to the suggested window, but being late at night, we didn't expect a reply.

 

We returned to the Hampton, fired up a microwave, made hot chocolate, and talked caching till well after Midnight, when we crashed and burned, not waking up till our collective alarm clocks made nuisances of themselves, pestering us with racket till we drug ourselves out of bed. We gathered at the "Withlacoochee River Park Breakfast & CITO" for some last minute schmoozing. I took my trusty Cannondale geosteed out for a kwick peddle, gathering up all the boggle containers from yesterday.

 

The crew put our heads together, coming up with a plan for just a couple more smilies, focused more on quality instead of quantity. As a certifiable Wherigo nut, I begged, pleaded, cajoled and whined until the others agreed to try out their devices. Since this was a test drive, I wanted to start with a very basic cartridge first, selecting "Where Tigers Train". I had my iPad and my Oregon 300, Mark and Vince had their iPhones, and Joshism, who met us in the parking lot, had his Droid. The cartridge played flawlessly on all of them, and following a brief tour of the Joker Marchant Stadium, we had the micro in hand. Joshism had crashed his Droid attempting "Walk in the Park" earlier, we headed over to rectify his DNF. We biked from stage to stage, enjoying the shaded, paved pathway, marveling at all the critters we saw along the way. The county really has a gem here, and this Wherigo highlights all the best parts. Oddly enough, the only device to crash on this go around was my Oregon. After I entered an affirmative for the last question, it shut down. I fired it back up, going back into the final zone, and again it shut off when I picked Yes. Still, it was an awesome cache. I took a bracelet thingy TB, and left a Pathtag.

 

Thanx for the hides!

 

-Sean

 

Post script: This log copy/pasted 'cuz I'm too dang lazy to type it a dozen more times.

 

I had to split it into one "Found It" and one "Note" due to the 4000 character limit. I haven't had any complaints, yet.

 

I think a log long enough to require two posts is as thoughtless as the no-log logs. Not that I don't love to read your story that is.

[+adrians.galaxy.crew]

(and the trend seems to be that TFTC only logs and even blank logs are on the rise) it's just more courteous to express a proportionally greater amount of thanks to the cache owner.

 

I think this is a pretty good indicator that these people are not posting to give genuine thanks, but rather because you are required to post something in order to log a find. (nothing in the case of iPhone app).

 

I think the real problem is that emails are sent to the CO regardless of what is written. This would annoy me to no end if all it contained was TFTC, or a period, or nothing at all.

 

So, that is why I think it would be great if they could all finders to just check that they have found the cache without forcing them to log anything. But they could offer an option to post a log if they wanted. If the finder opted for the log, then an email would be generated. Otherwise, the CO would just receive a single email once a week with stats of who found their cache. That should satisfy everyone because really, do you want to received a forced thanks or a genuine one?

 

Exactly, you shouldn't feel obligated to post a long log. If CO are putting caches out there just to receive compliments on how cool the cache was, that's wrong too, I think.

[+sbell111]

If you don't want Cut & Paste logs, don't place Cut & Paste caches...

 

Oh, believe me... it no longer takes a "cut & paste cache" to get cut & paste logs. Not even close!!

That is for sure! Recent logs on one of my hides:

 

April 23 "This is one of the best hides in one of the nicest locales I've ever found. Kudos to WRASTRO! Definitely will be tagged a fave. Thanks for the hide! SL."

 

April 19 "Thank you so much for re-enabling this. Not just panda's pleasure but a poppa pleasure to finally have this one. This one eluded me on multiple attempts (I checked and embarrassedly I admit I didn't post any DNFs). But on this majestic sunny day I finally found it. This is truly a splendid cache."

 

April 17 "I searched for two other types of hides before hitting on the right idea. Well done and TFTC!"

 

April 13 "TFTC"

I'm pretty sure that you just proved the rule. Sure, good caches can still catch the random c&p log, but lame caches will get bunches of them. If your cache gets lots of them, you might want to think about your cache's quality a bit more. If someone's cache only gets the rare c&p log and it still bothers him, perhaps he needs thicker skin.

So what you're saying is that if a cache owner shows some initiative and creates what should be a memorable cache rather than throw a film can into a bush, it's the cache owners fault for not having a thick skin when a bunch of lazy cachers can't be bothered to post a log with nothing more than TFTC.

I'm pretty certain that my post stated nothing of the sort. Perhaps you should stick to the words as they are actually typed rather than something else.

While I understand the official stance and I would never delete any cut and paste logs - I still find them lazy and disrespectful.

 

Seriously, look at the cache page and a map - if you can't remember anything about it a few hours later with the cache page and map as an aid, sounds like you wasted your own time. I suspect most such loggers are just far too interested in the smiley to worry about writing a few words - nothing to do with a poor memory.

GASP!! You can't mean...? How can I...? You expect me to...? OMG!!! This is going to take more than thirty seconds!!! I don't have that kind of time!!! If I am to find more than fifty roadside film cannisters in a day I can't be bothered with actually TYPING A RESPONSE!!!

This is going to totally detract from the amount of time I spend looking at my smilies on the map and feeling all warm and fuzzy over my accomplishments.

Geez, I might have to actually THANK someone??? Next thing you will expect me to actually OPEN the container and SIGN the log!!!!!! Where will it all end!!! Good grief!

One more person who doesn't understand that 'TFTC'is an acronym.

I understand what TFTC means and that's it's an acronym. To me, when someone shortens "thanks for the cache" to a four letter acronym it indicates that it's from someone that can't even take the time to type 20 additional characters.

Again, if a person chooses to read more into the written word than is actually there, he does it at his own peril.

[+Icenians]

A big part of the problem with logs on GC is the attitude of a number of the cache owners and it is clearly being demonstrated in this topic.

 

There are a few cache owners replies in here where they state that they have interesting caches and still get cut and paste logs.

 

Cache owners, a log is NOT your opinion of the cache, it's the cache finders opinion. You have absolutely no right to expect any kind of log that fits your opinion of your cache. If you do then really ought to reconsider placing caches at all. If the finder thinks that your cache is worthy of a full log then they will generally write a full log. If the finder thinks your cache is worthy of a cut and paste nondescript log then that's what you get. It's their thoughts on your cache not the other way round.

 

There are cache owners who demand thanks for their cache. They don't say it outright and none will admit it but re-read the forums where this subject keeps coming up and you'll see it all over the place. There are way too many people in this game that EXPECT thanks for putting out a cache. In my world you get thanks and respect by earning it and never by demanding it.

 

There is a big problem with log honesty in caching which is partly why people use short codes. If a cache is complete rubbish, in the finders view, they should be able to say that however, as is evidenced again and again in these forums, the last thing a finder can say in a log is his true feelings if those are negative. So, people either say nothing or say TFTC. If the cache was truly interesting and fun to do then the majority of logs will be descriptive. If it was just another in a series then it'll be unmemorable to the finder and get a cut and paste log. If you want great logs, place great caches (ones that the finders think are great).

 

There are ways to correct these things. Personally, if I have a cache that is receiving cut and paste logs or TFTC only logs I deal with the problem and archive the cache. A few more people really should remember that archiving a poor cache is always an option.

 

To those that readily blame the iPhones etc for short logs, rubbish. I can type TFTC just as easily from my keyboard at home as I can from the iPhone. I can also just as easily write a good log in the field on the phone. People that send blank logs or short ones from the field are just as likely to do the same from a desktop computer. Some people just don't have much to say.

 

Maybe if cache owners were a bit less touchy about the true opinions of the finders there would be far more better caches out there.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Icenians

[+roziecakes]

Cache owners, a log is NOT your opinion of the cache, it's the cache finders opinion. You have absolutely no right to expect any kind of log that fits your opinion of your cache.

 

YES! I agree 110% percent. It's cache logging, not cache bu**-kissing. The cache logs are there for us to share our experience, whatever that may be. If you didn't like the cache, you have every right to say so.

 

Of course I don't think that people should be rude; it is possible to express a negative feeling about something without being mean... but if you feel unsatisfied, you should be able to say so.

[lbiislander]

I'm fairly new so pardon the questions, but what is a cut & paste log? In the cache logbook or on-line? In the cache book, I usually only sign my name and the date. I do take the time to write a personal note on-line, but then I only do 1 or 2 a day. I think the most is 3. Why would anyone want to do 50 in a day? That's not enjoyment, that's competition, i/j/s.

[+roziecakes]

I'm fairly new so pardon the questions, but what is a cut & paste log? In the cache logbook or on-line? In the cache book, I usually only sign my name and the date. I do take the time to write a personal note on-line, but then I only do 1 or 2 a day. I think the most is 3. Why would anyone want to do 50 in a day? That's not enjoyment, that's competition, i/j/s.

 

A cut and paste log is when you post an online log, and then copy it and paste it for all of the other caches you've found for that day.

 

As for finding 50 caches in a day, I DO find it enjoyable, and I'm not competing with anyone. I just like the adventure of it. When I first started I never imagined how anyone could find 15 in a day, and that's a fairly regular day for me nowadays. It's okay that you don't want to find 50 in a day, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should assume it's competition. We all play the game differently.

 

Anyhoo, I'm personally not bothered that much by cut and paste logs as long as they say something interesting. I try not to use them, but yes, I do sometimes; and when I do, I try to say something nice; and add a little bit of unique info for each cache after I paste.

[+Chokecherry]

I'm fairly new so pardon the questions, but what is a cut & paste log? In the cache logbook or on-line? In the cache book, I usually only sign my name and the date. I do take the time to write a personal note on-line, but then I only do 1 or 2 a day. I think the most is 3. Why would anyone want to do 50 in a day? That's not enjoyment, that's competition, i/j/s.

 

Cut and paste means online logs. People will say something like "Out caching today on a run of 50 caches..." and cut and paste that into every cache they found on that day/trip or whatever.

 

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand. Cache owners need to quit reading so much into stuff. If I write a short log it's because something else is or was on my mind at the time I was caching as I said before. You may have a wonderful cache but my mind was processing something that happened at work or whatever on my trip out and back and during the find. I may just not have a lot to say as a result. I don't cut and paste logs (quicker for me to just type stuff out) and sometimes my logs look similar if I don't have a lot to say. Sometimes I have a lot to say on a cache that isn't that great to most people. Just a mood thing with me.

[+TerraViators]

As a CO, I don't care about blank logs, cut-n-paste logs, TFTF logs, etc. I hide the cache to be found. I don't even care if you make an e-log.

 

I do support CnP logs on some power trails. If you're going to make CnP caches with CnP cache pages, you deserve CnP logs, IMO.

[knowschad]

What would happen if I signed my name, made a bunch of copies, and then glued them in log books?

People do that all the time, except that they don't bother to sign their name first. Haven't you seen little stickers stuck in the log book in place of a signature?

 

If they are acceptable in the physical logbook, then what is wrong with them in the online logs?

 

Do it all the time. Not every cache is interesting enough to write a whole story about. Im usually doing the logging on my phone and dont want to do it over when i get home.

 

Please excuse me for grabbing your post to respond to... you are hardly the only one to state that opinion. First, nobody is asking anybody to "write a whole story". All that is being asked for, as far as I can see, is common courtesy. Thank the cache owner, and thank them sincerely. I don't know about you, but when I buy something at the store, and instead of getting a "thank you", I get the change dumped in my hand and "have a good 'un", I feel a bit cheated. I'm not asking that clerk to kiss my feet or any other part of my anatomy. I'm simply asking for the thanks that I deserve for shopping at the store that pays their wages. Thanking a cache owner is no different. If the cache was good enough to claim a smiley for, then its good enough to thank the one that put it out. TFTC or less is the geocaching version of "have a good 'un".

[+StarBrand]

What would happen if I signed my name, made a bunch of copies, and then glued them in log books?

People do that all the time, except that they don't bother to sign their name first. Haven't you seen little stickers stuck in the log book in place of a signature?

 

If they are acceptable in the physical logbook, then what is wrong with them in the online logs?

 

Do it all the time. Not every cache is interesting enough to write a whole story about. Im usually doing the logging on my phone and dont want to do it over when i get home.

 

Please excuse me for grabbing your post to respond to... you are hardly the only one to state that opinion. First, nobody is asking anybody to "write a whole story". All that is being asked for, as far as I can see, is common courtesy. Thank the cache owner, and thank them sincerely. I don't know about you, but when I buy something at the store, and instead of getting a "thank you", I get the change dumped in my hand and "have a good 'un", I feel a bit cheated. I'm not asking that clerk to kiss my feet or any other part of my anatomy. I'm simply asking for the thanks that I deserve for shopping at the store that pays their wages. Thanking a cache owner is no different. If the cache was good enough to claim a smiley for, then its good enough to thank the one that put it out. TFTC or less is the geocaching version of "have a good 'un".

I don't even care if you thank me. But I would like to know if my cache is still in good shape as well as the hide area. Fill the rest of your post with hateful commentary on my lack of creativity if you must but please indicate the state of the hide. Pretty please.....

[knowschad]

What's wrong with going home and logging? That's what all of us did for the first 9 years of Geocaching.

 

Things change. My grandparents write letters. My parents write emails. I tweet.

 

What some see as rudeness, others see as a natural extension of modern communication.

Our grandparents had it right, at least when it comes to considerate human relations.

[knowschad]

(and the trend seems to be that TFTC only logs and even blank logs are on the rise) it's just more courteous to express a proportionally greater amount of thanks to the cache owner.

 

I think this is a pretty good indicator that these people are not posting to give genuine thanks, but rather because you are required to post something in order to log a find. (nothing in the case of iPhone app).

 

I think the real problem is that emails are sent to the CO regardless of what is written. This would annoy me to no end if all it contained was TFTC, or a period, or nothing at all.

 

So, that is why I think it would be great if they could all finders to just check that they have found the cache without forcing them to log anything. But they could offer an option to post a log if they wanted. If the finder opted for the log, then an email would be generated. Otherwise, the CO would just receive a single email once a week with stats of who found their cache. That should satisfy everyone because really, do you want to received a forced thanks or a genuine one?

That is what they have now, only there is no checkbox. They can log nothing (from an app. They need at least a period to log from the website), they can log TFTC, or they can log "Hey, thanks for the cache!"

[+StarBrand]

What's wrong with going home and logging? That's what all of us did for the first 9 years of Geocaching.

 

Things change. My grandparents write letters. My parents write emails. I tweet.

 

What some see as rudeness, others see as a natural extension of modern communication.

Our grandparents had it right, at least when it comes to considerate human relations.

My grandparents wrote letter. My parents used a typewriter to write letters. I use email to write letters. Tweeting and texting is to short for a sensible form of a complete letter.

 

Point is - writing a whole letter instead of broken fragmented parts of a sentence is still polite. Whatever form of communication is used.

[knowschad]

I understand things used to be different but about 75-90% of caches out there are light post and quick P&G caches and no one could possibly take the time to write a story about each of them.

Who on God's Green Earth said that anybody should write a story? I'm really getting tired of that line. No story, no essay, no book, no novel. Just a thanks. A real thanks. A genuine thanks. You took the smiley, you give the thanks. If the cache is too lame for a thank you, then do not log the smiley.

[mresoteric]

Thank the cache owner, and thank them sincerely.

 

What if I am not thankful? What if I am just out caching and don't really care about specific caches? Wouldn't you rather not see an email at all than a blank email or TFTC email? Wouldn't you rather have emailed logs reserved for the truly thankful and interesting logs? Wouldn't you rather just receive the stats for the other finders?

 

I don't know about you, but when I buy something at the store, and instead of getting a "thank you", I get the change dumped in my hand and "have a good 'un", I feel a bit cheated.

 

I don't know where you live, but that is a pretty standard exchange here. I would not feel slighted in the least bit.

 

If the cache was good enough to claim a smiley for, then its good enough to thank the one that put it out.

 

That is a matter of opinion. I'd rather someone thank me because they really felt like telling me thanks. Not because they felt compelled to do so.

[mresoteric]

What's wrong with going home and logging? That's what all of us did for the first 9 years of Geocaching.

 

Things change. My grandparents write letters. My parents write emails. I tweet.

 

What some see as rudeness, others see as a natural extension of modern communication.

Our grandparents had it right, at least when it comes to considerate human relations.

 

I'm guessing you are in your 50's or above? You may feel that the younger crowd is rude, but is that because we are truly rude or because your perspective has changed as you have grown older?

 

I see it as our grandparents had their way of communicating and we have ours.

Edited April 26, 2011 by mresoteric

[mresoteric]

That is what they have now, only there is no checkbox. They can log nothing (from an app. They need at least a period to log from the website), they can log TFTC, or they can log "Hey, thanks for the cache!"

 

You are probably right. I don't know as I don't own any caches. But I was under the impression that every find log generated an email to the owner. What I am suggesting is that an email be generated only if the finder chooses to post the optional log. Otherwise they just check "found" and you get emailed the stats once a week.

[mresoteric]

My grandparents wrote letter. My parents used a typewriter to write letters. I use email to write letters. Tweeting and texting is to short for a sensible form of a complete letter.

 

Point is - writing a whole letter instead of broken fragmented parts of a sentence is still polite. Whatever form of communication is used.

 

That is your opinion. My generation grew up with texting and Facebook. I see TFTC the same as the Like button in Facebook. It conveys that I enjoyed your cache. If I want to say more, then I can. But if I don't, that should be fine too.

 

However, I can see where older generations can find it rude. That is why I have suggested that the log itself be made optional, not mandatory. Checking the Found box would let you know the cache was found. You would not be emailed every blank or TFTC log.

[knowschad]

Thank the cache owner, and thank them sincerely.

 

What if I am not thankful? What if I am just out caching and don't really care about specific caches? Wouldn't you rather not see an email at all than a blank email or TFTC email? Wouldn't you rather have emailed logs reserved for the truly thankful and interesting logs? Wouldn't you rather just receive the stats for the other finders?

In that case, have some pride. Don't take a smiley if you can't at least thank the cache owner sincerely. They put it out there for you to find. I'll bet if all cache owners but one pulled all of their caches, you would thank that one cache owner. They hid it, they (hopefully) maintain it... thank them.

 

I don't know about you, but when I buy something at the store, and instead of getting a "thank you", I get the change dumped in my hand and "have a good 'un", I feel a bit cheated.

 

I don't know where you live, but that is a pretty standard exchange here. I would not feel slighted in the least bit.

It isn't a matter of where I live... it is a matter of when I've lived. It is pretty standard here these days, too. But that has not always been the case. The clerk has a job only because people spend their money there, instead of that place down the street.

 

If the cache was good enough to claim a smiley for, then its good enough to thank the one that put it out.

 

That is a matter of opinion. I'd rather someone thank me because they really felt like telling me thanks. Not because they felt compelled to do so.

I agree 100% You should not feel compelled to thank them. Nor should you feel compelled to log a find. But if you found it worth taking something (a smiley) for, then you should find it worth giving something (thanks) for.

[+roziecakes]

That is what they have now, only there is no checkbox. They can log nothing (from an app. They need at least a period to log from the website), they can log TFTC, or they can log "Hey, thanks for the cache!"

 

You are probably right. I don't know as I don't own any caches. But I was under the impression that every find log generated an email to the owner. What I am suggesting is that an email be generated only if the finder chooses to post the optional log. Otherwise they just check "found" and you get emailed the stats once a week.

 

You are right, every log does generate an email to the cache owner. I actually like getting them

[+M 5]

I'll be willing to bet that if blank and only tftc or short cnp logs turn into the norm, cache quality and the amount of caches will lower.

[+B+L]

That is your opinion. My generation grew up with texting and Facebook.

The poor carpenter blames his tools.

 

I see TFTC the same as the Like button in Facebook. It conveys that I enjoyed your cache. If I want to say more, then I can. But if I don't, that should be fine too.

Even the olds know there is no "unlike" button. Your TFTC is conveying something, but it's not really what you think it is. Sure, you are completely free to write as little or as much as you want, but people will form impressions based on what you give them to work with.

[+TerraViators]

My grandparents wrote letter. My parents used a typewriter to write letters. I use email to write letters. Tweeting and texting is to short for a sensible form of a complete letter.

 

Point is - writing a whole letter instead of broken fragmented parts of a sentence is still polite. Whatever form of communication is used.

 

That is your opinion. My generation grew up with texting and Facebook. I see TFTC the same as the Like button in Facebook. It conveys that I enjoyed your cache. If I want to say more, then I can. But if I don't, that should be fine too.

 

However, I can see where older generations can find it rude. That is why I have suggested that the log itself be made optional, not mandatory. Checking the Found box would let you know the cache was found. You would not be emailed every blank or TFTC log.

 

I do not agree with your opinion, but as former journalist, I support your right to have it and express it.

[+StarBrand]

My grandparents wrote letter. My parents used a typewriter to write letters. I use email to write letters. Tweeting and texting is to short for a sensible form of a complete letter.

 

Point is - writing a whole letter instead of broken fragmented parts of a sentence is still polite. Whatever form of communication is used.

 

That is your opinion. My generation grew up with texting and Facebook. I see TFTC the same as the Like button in Facebook. It conveys that I enjoyed your cache. If I want to say more, then I can. But if I don't, that should be fine too.

....

 

How sad that anybody of any age would equate a little "thumbs up" icon with the actual exchange of a handful of polite words by another means.

[+Don_J]

That is what they have now, only there is no checkbox. They can log nothing (from an app. They need at least a period to log from the website), they can log TFTC, or they can log "Hey, thanks for the cache!"

 

You are probably right. I don't know as I don't own any caches. But I was under the impression that every find log generated an email to the owner. What I am suggesting is that an email be generated only if the finder chooses to post the optional log. Otherwise they just check "found" and you get emailed the stats once a week.

 

I don't like that idea at all. If someone is finding my cache, I want to know about it, blank log or not. And, I don't want to wait a week for some report to be sent.

[+BuckeyeClan]

My grandparents wrote letter. My parents used a typewriter to write letters. I use email to write letters. Tweeting and texting is to short for a sensible form of a complete letter.

 

Point is - writing a whole letter instead of broken fragmented parts of a sentence is still polite. Whatever form of communication is used.

 

That is your opinion. My generation grew up with texting and Facebook. I see TFTC the same as the Like button in Facebook. It conveys that I enjoyed your cache. If I want to say more, then I can. But if I don't, that should be fine too.

 

However, I can see where older generations can find it rude. That is why I have suggested that the log itself be made optional, not mandatory. Checking the Found box would let you know the cache was found. You would not be emailed every blank or TFTC log.

 

You know, that's a really interesting point! I use Facebook too, and when I see somebody "like" my post I'm happy that they enjoyed it, and not upset that they didn't write something back. Maybe the influx of short logs and "TFTC" is just a sign of more participants from a younger generation (many of whom just happen to be armed with smartphones). I'll admit that reading "text-speak" drives me a little bonkers, because my brain can process a full sentence faster than it can interpret acronyms that I don't know very well. But I can see how people that have grown up with it just view it as short-hand and convenient (rather than insulting or lazy).

[knowschad]

That is what they have now, only there is no checkbox. They can log nothing (from an app. They need at least a period to log from the website), they can log TFTC, or they can log "Hey, thanks for the cache!"

 

You are probably right. I don't know as I don't own any caches. But I was under the impression that every find log generated an email to the owner. What I am suggesting is that an email be generated only if the finder chooses to post the optional log. Otherwise they just check "found" and you get emailed the stats once a week.

 

You know, that's a couple of times now that you have posted opinions regarding the way cache owners should feel or how they should check their logs, without actually owning any caches. Perhaps you would be wise to hold off on such opinions until you do have a few hides out there. You may not find that your opinions have changed one bit, but I would be surprised.

 

By the way, I was thinking... maybe my example of using a store clerk and "have a good 'un" was a poor example to you of someone being discourteous, so let me ask you... what would make you feel that someone was not being appropriately courteous to you? I can't believe that you are immune to that feeling.

[NeecesandNephews]

If you don't want Cut & Paste logs, don't place Cut & Paste caches...

 

Oh, believe me... it no longer takes a "cut & paste cache" to get cut & paste logs. Not even close!!

That is for sure! Recent logs on one of my hides:

 

April 23 "This is one of the best hides in one of the nicest locales I've ever found. Kudos to WRASTRO! Definitely will be tagged a fave. Thanks for the hide! SL."

 

April 19 "Thank you so much for re-enabling this. Not just panda's pleasure but a poppa pleasure to finally have this one. This one eluded me on multiple attempts (I checked and embarrassedly I admit I didn't post any DNFs). But on this majestic sunny day I finally found it. This is truly a splendid cache."

 

April 17 "I searched for two other types of hides before hitting on the right idea. Well done and TFTC!"

 

April 13 "TFTC"

I'm pretty sure that you just proved the rule. Sure, good caches can still catch the random c&p log, but lame caches will get bunches of them. If your cache gets lots of them, you might want to think about your cache's quality a bit more. If someone's cache only gets the rare c&p log and it still bothers him, perhaps he needs thicker skin.

So what you're saying is that if a cache owner shows some initiative and creates what should be a memorable cache rather than throw a film can into a bush, it's the cache owners fault for not having a thick skin when a bunch of lazy cachers can't be bothered to post a log with nothing more than TFTC.

I'm pretty certain that my post stated nothing of the sort. Perhaps you should stick to the words as they are actually typed rather than something else.

While I understand the official stance and I would never delete any cut and paste logs - I still find them lazy and disrespectful.

 

Seriously, look at the cache page and a map - if you can't remember anything about it a few hours later with the cache page and map as an aid, sounds like you wasted your own time. I suspect most such loggers are just far too interested in the smiley to worry about writing a few words - nothing to do with a poor memory.

GASP!! You can't mean...? How can I...? You expect me to...? OMG!!! This is going to take more than thirty seconds!!! I don't have that kind of time!!! If I am to find more than fifty roadside film cannisters in a day I can't be bothered with actually TYPING A RESPONSE!!!

This is going to totally detract from the amount of time I spend looking at my smilies on the map and feeling all warm and fuzzy over my accomplishments.

Geez, I might have to actually THANK someone??? Next thing you will expect me to actually OPEN the container and SIGN the log!!!!!! Where will it all end!!! Good grief!

One more person who doesn't understand that 'TFTC'is an acronym.

I understand what TFTC means and that's it's an acronym. To me, when someone shortens "thanks for the cache" to a four letter acronym it indicates that it's from someone that can't even take the time to type 20 additional characters.

Again, if a person chooses to read more into the written word than is actually there, he does it at his own peril.

Oh the irony!

sbell111 I would think someone of your self proclaimed intellectual superiority would recognize someone being facetious when you read it. I know full well what TFTC means. I use it nearly every time I log. I also show the cache owner the simple courtesy of posting a few words more in appreciation. A concept you don't seem to understand.

I have shown the same courtesy to you in not attempting to belittle you by mocking your posts, or your opinions. You seem to wander the forums looking for someone to argue with. Keep looking.

Edited April 26, 2011 by NeecesandNephews

[mresoteric]

I'll bet if all cache owners but one pulled all of their caches, you would thank that one cache owner. They hid it, they (hopefully) maintain it... thank them.

 

That's a point I made earlier about there being too many caches. Maybe if there were less caches, cachers would be more thankful. But when you have an over abundance it dilutes the "thankful" pool, so to speak.

 

It isn't a matter of where I live... it is a matter of when I've lived. It is pretty standard here these days, too. But that has not always been the case. The clerk has a job only because people spend their money there, instead of that place down the street.

 

I think you are right. My grandfather felt like that and my dad is beginning to talk like him too. I don't know if it the times though or your perspective. Because for me, this is how things are. I haven't seen enough changes to start thinking about how things used to be.

 

But if you found it worth taking something (a smiley) for, then you should find it worth giving something (thanks) for.

 

Maybe you're right. And maybe my opinion will change when I get around to hiding my first cache. And I do try to write something. I just think the CO would prefer I right what I really feel and not just something to appease him.

[mresoteric]

You are right, every log does generate an email to the cache owner. I actually like getting them

 

You may like getting all of them but it is very obvious that several people in this thread do not enjoy them unless they have a certain content. I am just suggesting a way to try to appease everyone.

[mresoteric]

I'll be willing to bet that if blank and only tftc or short cnp logs turn into the norm, cache quality and the amount of caches will lower.

 

If some of the threads are any indication, cache quality is already an issue. I cannot help but think that not all hiders really want a thanks. I get the impression that a very large percentage of cachers hide caches so that other cachers will hide caches so they can find more caches. For a lot of cachers having more caches to find seems to be all the thanks they really need.

[mresoteric]

Even the olds know there is no "unlike" button. Your TFTC is conveying something, but it's not really what you think it is. Sure, you are completely free to write as little or as much as you want, but people will form impressions based on what you give them to work with.

 

You are probably right, but I bet you that in a high percentage of cases the impression formed is not the impression intended.

[knowschad]

I'll bet if all cache owners but one pulled all of their caches, you would thank that one cache owner. They hid it, they (hopefully) maintain it... thank them.

 

That's a point I made earlier about there being too many caches. Maybe if there were less caches, cachers would be more thankful. But when you have an over abundance it dilutes the "thankful" pool, so to speak.

 

It isn't a matter of where I live... it is a matter of when I've lived. It is pretty standard here these days, too. But that has not always been the case. The clerk has a job only because people spend their money there, instead of that place down the street.

 

I think you are right. My grandfather felt like that and my dad is beginning to talk like him too. I don't know if it the times though or your perspective. Because for me, this is how things are. I haven't seen enough changes to start thinking about how things used to be.

 

But if you found it worth taking something (a smiley) for, then you should find it worth giving something (thanks) for.

 

Maybe you're right. And maybe my opinion will change when I get around to hiding my first cache. And I do try to write something. I just think the CO would prefer I right what I really feel and not just something to appease him.

 

First, let me say that I very much appreciate that you are willing to listen to other opinions. I give you high praise for that!

 

Second, though... what is a "thankfulness pool"? Does the newer generation come with a limited amount of thankfulness that they must carefully distribute to only the most worthy? If so, that's a real shame. We came with an infinite amount of thankfulness, although many didn't care to use it. Some learned, though, that thanking others made their own lives richer.

[mresoteric]

My grandparents wrote letter. My parents used a typewriter to write letters. I use email to write letters. Tweeting and texting is to short for a sensible form of a complete letter.

 

Point is - writing a whole letter instead of broken fragmented parts of a sentence is still polite. Whatever form of communication is used.

 

That is your opinion. My generation grew up with texting and Facebook. I see TFTC the same as the Like button in Facebook. It conveys that I enjoyed your cache. If I want to say more, then I can. But if I don't, that should be fine too.

 

However, I can see where older generations can find it rude. That is why I have suggested that the log itself be made optional, not mandatory. Checking the Found box would let you know the cache was found. You would not be emailed every blank or TFTC log.

 

You know, that's a really interesting point! I use Facebook too, and when I see somebody "like" my post I'm happy that they enjoyed it, and not upset that they didn't write something back. Maybe the influx of short logs and "TFTC" is just a sign of more participants from a younger generation (many of whom just happen to be armed with smartphones). I'll admit that reading "text-speak" drives me a little bonkers, because my brain can process a full sentence faster than it can interpret acronyms that I don't know very well. But I can see how people that have grown up with it just view it as short-hand and convenient (rather than insulting or lazy).

 

Thank you. It just happens to be the way my generation grew up.

 

And I can understand why a lot of people look down on my generation for the way we communicate. They are used to a certain style they grew up with which equates to their standard. It is nice to receive handwritten letters from time to time as well. I actually cherish them.

[knowschad]

My grandparents wrote letter. My parents used a typewriter to write letters. I use email to write letters. Tweeting and texting is to short for a sensible form of a complete letter.

 

Point is - writing a whole letter instead of broken fragmented parts of a sentence is still polite. Whatever form of communication is used.

 

That is your opinion. My generation grew up with texting and Facebook. I see TFTC the same as the Like button in Facebook. It conveys that I enjoyed your cache. If I want to say more, then I can. But if I don't, that should be fine too.

 

However, I can see where older generations can find it rude. That is why I have suggested that the log itself be made optional, not mandatory. Checking the Found box would let you know the cache was found. You would not be emailed every blank or TFTC log.

 

You know, that's a really interesting point! I use Facebook too, and when I see somebody "like" my post I'm happy that they enjoyed it, and not upset that they didn't write something back. Maybe the influx of short logs and "TFTC" is just a sign of more participants from a younger generation (many of whom just happen to be armed with smartphones). I'll admit that reading "text-speak" drives me a little bonkers, because my brain can process a full sentence faster than it can interpret acronyms that I don't know very well. But I can see how people that have grown up with it just view it as short-hand and convenient (rather than insulting or lazy).

 

Thank you. It just happens to be the way my generation grew up.

 

And I can understand why a lot of people look down on my generation for the way we communicate. They are used to a certain style they grew up with which equates to their standard. It is nice to receive handwritten letters from time to time as well. I actually cherish them.

 

In addition, there is a bit of difference between making a Facebook post and hiding/maintaining a geocache. When you "Like" my facebook post, you have usually exerted just about as much energy as I put into the Facebook post. When you "Like" my cache, I have exerted a whole lot more energy, time, and gas then you did "Liking" my cache.

 

("you", obviously, is used in the collective sense, and not aimed at you, personally)

[mresoteric]

You know, that's a couple of times now that you have posted opinions regarding the way cache owners should feel or how they should check their logs, without actually owning any caches. Perhaps you would be wise to hold off on such opinions until you do have a few hides out there. You may not find that your opinions have changed one bit, but I would be surprised.

 

By the way, I was thinking... maybe my example of using a store clerk and "have a good 'un" was a poor example to you of someone being discourteous, so let me ask you... what would make you feel that someone was not being appropriately courteous to you? I can't believe that you are immune to that feeling.

 

I agree with you that my opinion might change when I hide my own cache. I still think my opinions are valid. If nothing else, I give insight from a younger, newbie cacher. Maybe it helps others to understand that not all blank logs or acronyms are meant malevolently.

 

As for the store example, for me it is when the clerk drops the money on the counter and doesn't bother to make eye contact.

[mresoteric]

Second, though... what is a "thankfulness pool"?

 

It's a word I just invented to try to explain quickly what I spent a full post on earlier with my steak dinner example. Basically I was trying to say that when you are inundated with a ton of options, you don't appreciate each of them as much as you do when you have very few options.

[mresoteric]

In addition, there is a bit of difference between making a Facebook post and hiding/maintaining a geocache. When you "Like" my facebook post, you have usually exerted just about as much energy as I put into the Facebook post. When you "Like" my cache, I have exerted a whole lot more energy, time, and gas then you did "Liking" my cache.

 

("you", obviously, is used in the collective sense, and not aimed at you, personally)

 

What are your thoughts on the Favorites button? It takes way less time for me to hit the Favorites on a cache I really like than it probably took for the hider to hide that cache. Does that make the vote any less valid?

[+BuckeyeClan]

My grandparents wrote letter. My parents used a typewriter to write letters. I use email to write letters. Tweeting and texting is to short for a sensible form of a complete letter.

 

Point is - writing a whole letter instead of broken fragmented parts of a sentence is still polite. Whatever form of communication is used.

 

That is your opinion. My generation grew up with texting and Facebook. I see TFTC the same as the Like button in Facebook. It conveys that I enjoyed your cache. If I want to say more, then I can. But if I don't, that should be fine too.

 

However, I can see where older generations can find it rude. That is why I have suggested that the log itself be made optional, not mandatory. Checking the Found box would let you know the cache was found. You would not be emailed every blank or TFTC log.

 

You know, that's a really interesting point! I use Facebook too, and when I see somebody "like" my post I'm happy that they enjoyed it, and not upset that they didn't write something back. Maybe the influx of short logs and "TFTC" is just a sign of more participants from a younger generation (many of whom just happen to be armed with smartphones). I'll admit that reading "text-speak" drives me a little bonkers, because my brain can process a full sentence faster than it can interpret acronyms that I don't know very well. But I can see how people that have grown up with it just view it as short-hand and convenient (rather than insulting or lazy).

 

Thank you. It just happens to be the way my generation grew up.

 

And I can understand why a lot of people look down on my generation for the way we communicate. They are used to a certain style they grew up with which equates to their standard. It is nice to receive handwritten letters from time to time as well. I actually cherish them.

 

I think some of the problems arise when you cross mediums. Even the most text-happy teen probably wouldn't write a handwritten note in text-speak. And most Facebook posters keep it short and use abreviations. Logging a cache is a bit of a cross between mediums. Most people that have been around for awhile see it as similar to the forums, where full sentences is the norm. But I can see how newer (and younger) cachers would see it more along the lines of a text or tweet, especially using their phones to log it. And after all, there is a smiley face associated with the "found it" log; you aren't simply "taking" a smiley, you are leaving one too. Again, it's not at all unusual for someone to text or post a as a simple affirmation.

 

I'm all for encouraging cachers to write a bit, and to try to inform them about how much CO's appreciate unique logs. I like to read the logs of caches I'm planning to look for, so I enjoy seeing more than "TFTC" or "find #12 of 17". But I don't think every short log means somebody is lazy or being insulting.

[+BuckeyeClan]

My grandparents wrote letter. My parents used a typewriter to write letters. I use email to write letters. Tweeting and texting is to short for a sensible form of a complete letter.

 

Point is - writing a whole letter instead of broken fragmented parts of a sentence is still polite. Whatever form of communication is used.

 

That is your opinion. My generation grew up with texting and Facebook. I see TFTC the same as the Like button in Facebook. It conveys that I enjoyed your cache. If I want to say more, then I can. But if I don't, that should be fine too.

 

However, I can see where older generations can find it rude. That is why I have suggested that the log itself be made optional, not mandatory. Checking the Found box would let you know the cache was found. You would not be emailed every blank or TFTC log.

 

You know, that's a really interesting point! I use Facebook too, and when I see somebody "like" my post I'm happy that they enjoyed it, and not upset that they didn't write something back. Maybe the influx of short logs and "TFTC" is just a sign of more participants from a younger generation (many of whom just happen to be armed with smartphones). I'll admit that reading "text-speak" drives me a little bonkers, because my brain can process a full sentence faster than it can interpret acronyms that I don't know very well. But I can see how people that have grown up with it just view it as short-hand and convenient (rather than insulting or lazy).

 

Thank you. It just happens to be the way my generation grew up.

 

And I can understand why a lot of people look down on my generation for the way we communicate. They are used to a certain style they grew up with which equates to their standard. It is nice to receive handwritten letters from time to time as well. I actually cherish them.

 

In addition, there is a bit of difference between making a Facebook post and hiding/maintaining a geocache. When you "Like" my facebook post, you have usually exerted just about as much energy as I put into the Facebook post. When you "Like" my cache, I have exerted a whole lot more energy, time, and gas then you did "Liking" my cache.

 

("you", obviously, is used in the collective sense, and not aimed at you, personally)

 

But I obviously exerted a fair amount of time and effort in finding your cache. Maybe I (used in the collective sense) think that just finding and logging the cache shows that I thought it worthwhile. Actually, this is my gripe about people who log "TFTC" and actually mean it as an insult. Why would you even bother hunting and logging a cache you consider lame? Simply logging the cache is a sort of validation. Maybe if people just stopped finding and logging what they consider to be "lame" hides, then those hiders wouldn't get many logs, and maybe they'd archive it sooner, or at least not put out any similar hides.

 

(Please note that I personally *do* write at least a sentence or 2 when I log; I'm just trying to see this from another perspective.)

[+B+L]

Even the olds know there is no "unlike" button. Your TFTC is conveying something, but it's not really what you think it is. Sure, you are completely free to write as little or as much as you want, but people will form impressions based on what you give them to work with.

You are probably right, but I bet you that in a high percentage of cases the impression formed is not the impression intended.

Precisley, but you do have some say in the matter.

[+M 5]

blah

[+the4dirtydogs]

blah

+1

[mresoteric]

blah

+1

 

Oh the irony.

[+M 5]

blah

+1

 

Oh the irony.

It was directed as a response to your numerous posts on this subject.

[mresoteric]

blah

+1

 

Oh the irony.

It was directed as a response to your numerous posts on this subject.

 

I was referring to the +1.

 

But since you mentioned it, I consider your post to be rude. If you think I post too much, don't read my posts.

[+Chrysalides]

Second, though... what is a "thankfulness pool"?

Diminishing returns

[mresoteric]

blah

+1

 

Oh the irony.

It was directed as a response to your numerous posts on this subject.

 

I was referring to the +1.

 

But since you mentioned it, I consider your post to be rude. If you think I post too much, don't read my posts.

 

What is truly ironic is I took no offense to the original "blah" comment. I didn't even realize it was directed towards me. It was only when you used a full sentence to explain that it was a dig at me that it became offensive.

[+M 5]

blah

+1

 

Oh the irony.

It was directed as a response to your numerous posts on this subject.

 

I was referring to the +1.

 

But since you mentioned it, I consider your post to be rude. If you think I post too much, don't read my posts.

 

I thought you would just be happy someone was responding to your posts and not care so much about the content. That is in part what you have been championing. Guess content does matter. Who knew!