A so called good container not be

[+softballmom19]

I have read the forums stating that most people have found certain type of containers to be good ones. The ammo can, the lock and lock, true nano and of course the bsion tube. Now have any of you found these containers and because of location the turned out not to be a good container? I have found ammno cans with dry contents but the smell inside was just awful. I have also found ammno cans that are rusted and hard to open. I have had a nano screwed so tightly that a all purpose tool couldn't open it without fear of breaking it or stripping the threads, bison tube as well. Of course all of these had dry contents which is the big purpose. Guess maintence plays a big factor as well which I'm sure some of these didn't get.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Micros in the woods.

[+L0ne.R]

Now have any of you found these containers and because of location the turned out not to be a good container?

 

Lock and locks with 20 pound rocks resting on top of it. And the kind of hide where you have to step on the rocks to search for the cache, adding your weight to the pressure on the lid of the container. The only container that could make it through that weight challenge might be an ammo can.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Ammo cans need to be clean to start (I use denatured alcohol), and in good condition (good seal). Found mine floating in a creek after terrential rains and the contents were completely dry. It doesn't take much to test for water-tite before turning it into a cache.

[+Don_J]

Lock n' Locks in direct sunlight in the Mojave Desert don't last long.

The cheap bison tubes are likely to get cross threaded, plus the gaskets fail after little use.

[knowschad]

There is no perfect container. Those that you listed are simply among the best that we've found. Ammo cans particularly are susceptible to getting that funky, musty smell simply because they ARE so waterproof. If any moisture does get in (from cachers logging it in the rain or snow, or simply high humidity) it can't get out. Nothing much you can do about that except hold your nose.

 

The weak spot in bison tubes and matchstick containers is the gasket, or o-ring that seals the top. Once that breaks down (UV and ozone eventually will break down rubber) you have a potentially leaky container.

 

Lock & Locks can break, they can be resealed incorrectly.

 

Many of us also have no problem whatsoever with a well-cleaned peanut butter or mayo jar. They're very tough, and while they don't have any sort of gasket, they do seem to hold up pretty darned well.

[TheCacheSeeker]

In my area, lock and locks usually get moist and smelly. It really depends on the weather conditions to determine whether a container is good or not.

[sdarken]

Ammo cans may not be perfect but they are still the best option for a low maintenance cache in non-urban locations. In urban/suburban locations I'd use plastic containers (with a clear side). No container is perfect but there are better and worse containers for every location.

[+power69]

I have read the forums stating that most people have found certain type of containers to be good ones. The ammo can, the lock and lock, true nano and of course the bsion tube. Now have any of you found these containers and because of location the turned out not to be a good container? I have found ammno cans with dry contents but the smell inside was just awful. I have also found ammno cans that are rusted and hard to open. I have had a nano screwed so tightly that a all purpose tool couldn't open it without fear of breaking it or stripping the threads, bison tube as well. Of course all of these had dry contents which is the big purpose. Guess maintence plays a big factor as well which I'm sure some of these didn't get.

I've seen ammo can with 2 inches of water[someone thought it would be cool to leave "snow from utah" in a gallon ziplock bag and guess what? YES! the ziplock popped open.

[sabrefan7]

The cheap bison tubes are likely to get cross threaded, plus the gaskets fail after little use.

 

Even the good bison tubes take a beating in a WNY winter. I replaced one yesterday that had surface rust on the stainless steel and the O rings worn out. At least you can fix and reuse the good ones.

[+power69]

The cheap bison tubes are likely to get cross threaded, plus the gaskets fail after little use.

 

Even the good bison tubes take a beating in a WNY winter. I replaced one yesterday that had surface rust on the stainless steel and the O rings worn out. At least you can fix and reuse the good ones.

A little mineral oil on the O rings could extend their life.

[+A & J Tooling]

The cheap bison tubes are likely to get cross threaded, plus the gaskets fail after little use.

 

Even the good bison tubes take a beating in a WNY winter. I replaced one yesterday that had surface rust on the stainless steel and the O rings worn out. At least you can fix and reuse the good ones.

A little mineral oil on the O rings could extend their life.

 

Mineral oil will cause an o-ring to fail if used too often.

[+roziecakes]

I admit, I have actually found an ammo can that was FULL of water. Why? Well, ammo cans have a rubber seal on the inside, and this one was just so old it was worn out... also, it was hidden under a water fall. Bad combo.

[+Mudfrog]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned 35mm film canisters. They are the best i've come across. Wait,, nevermind.

 

Like has been mentioned, bison tubes and nanos with O rings seem to do pretty good, however, we have found them with wet logs on occasion. I figure the big cause of these failures is that cachers sometimes screw the lids back on too tight which pinches or flat out ruins the O ring. Of course, old age and cold weather can also play a part in the failure.

 

One that i have found that works well is a plastic (comes in half and gallon size) storage container with screw on lid found at your local Walmart store. I've been using them for years, i'm thinking probably 20 or so caches, and have never found one to be wet inside. That's not to say that i would submerge one, but they have worked very well for us over the years.

[knowschad]

ANY container that can be opened can get wet inside. What is the point here?

[+GeoGeeBee]

I've found one ammo can with really wet contents. It's a "themed" hide, behind a comic book store. It's stuffed full of comic books in plastic bags. That's the problem, it's stuffed way too full. Someone closed it with a bag sticking out, and all of the comic books are now soaking wet.

[+sseegars]

I have an ammo can secured to a tree (chained with enough chain so as not to impede the trees growth) on a river in SC. The river is low on water most of the year due to water being diverted for hydro-electric use. On one occasion this cache was under somewhere between 15' and 24' of water. When we checked it after that it was dry as a bone. No container is perfect but THIS is why I prefer and always will prefer the ammo can.

 

To answer the OP question, I have had some success with the small aspirin tubes for micros. Never really had any problems with them. But I find them all the time with wet nasty logs in them. I don't know what I am doing right. But I will continue to do it.

 

FK

[AZcachemeister]

No plastic in the desert, please...that one's a gimme.

 

In general, there are a multitude of containers that would work just fine...IF THEY ARE LEFT ALONE.

When you add in the human factor, all bets are off!

For every seemingly bullet-proof container, there are several cachers out there who can easily (and inadvertently) cause it to fail.

[+AlohaBra and MaksMom]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned 35mm film canisters. They are the best i've come across. Wait,, nevermind.

 

Like has been mentioned, bison tubes and nanos with O rings seem to do pretty good, however, we have found them with wet logs on occasion. I figure the big cause of these failures is that cachers sometimes screw the lids back on too tight which pinches or flat out ruins the O ring. Of course, old age and cold weather can also play a part in the failure.

 

One that i have found that works well is a plastic (comes in half and gallon size) storage container with screw on lid found at your local Walmart store. I've been using them for years, i'm thinking probably 20 or so caches, and have never found one to be wet inside. That's not to say that i would submerge one, but they have worked very well for us over the years.

 

Since you mentioned Walmart... these cases by Outdoor Products are totally waterproof. Cost is 6-8 dollars depending on size.

 

Tried to post a picture but this text only reply won't allow it.

[+d+n.s]

I find a LOT of cracked decon container lids.

[+Don_J]

I find a LOT of cracked decon container lids.

 

I have never seen a cracked decon lid. I have found a couple of hundred of them, and my climate is similar to yours.

 

BTW, anyone know where to buy decons. I have eight saved, that I plan to use for maintenance. New ones seem to be rare, and the price is five times what I used to pay.

[+Don_J]

A so called good container not be".

 

People seem to think that ammo cans are fireproof. After recovering my own, and ammo cans for other local cachers, after our mountain fires in Southern California, I can say that the can seems to be intact, but the crucial gasket around the lid, has been turned to ash. I marched two of my ammo cans out of a canyon, days after a devastating fire. The lids clanked against the can to the point that it was getting annoying. They were no longer fireproof, and went into the blue bin, after I scraped out the melted contents.

 

Take an empty ammo can and shake it. If you hear rattling, the seal has been compromised.

[OliverrWilliams]

I have just 'acquired' 4 fairly good condition ammo cans. Even though the seals are in great condition, and no rust on the cans. I was wondering if I should chuck a few sillica packs in to deal with the slight amount of water that may enter from cachers hands etc in the wet? Yay? Nay?

[+power69]

No plastic in the desert, please...that one's a gimme.

 

In general, there are a multitude of containers that would work just fine...IF THEY ARE LEFT ALONE.

When you add in the human factor, all bets are off!

For every seemingly bullet-proof container, there are several cachers out there who can easily (and inadvertently) cause it to fail.

yeah whats up with that.

I got one thats a tin with magnet stuck under something and looks like it was smashed with a 100 pound rock[no, not a mountain cache]

[+A & J Tooling]

I have just 'acquired' 4 fairly good condition ammo cans. Even though the seals are in great condition, and no rust on the cans. I was wondering if I should chuck a few sillica packs in to deal with the slight amount of water that may enter from cachers hands etc in the wet? Yay? Nay?

I say yay, might check to ensure they have that 'do not ingest' warning on them (mine do). I toss those little packets in all the cans I come across that are showing signs of getting damp on the inside.

[+A & J Tooling]

A so called good container not be".

 

People seem to think that ammo cans are fireproof. After recovering my own, and ammo cans for other local cachers, after our mountain fires in Southern California, I can say that the can seems to be intact, but the crucial gasket around the lid, has been turned to ash. I marched two of my ammo cans out of a canyon, days after a devastating fire. The lids clanked against the can to the point that it was getting annoying. They were no longer fireproof, and went into the blue bin, after I scraped out the melted contents.

 

Take an empty ammo can and shake it. If you hear rattling, the seal has been compromised.

 

Just remove the lid and replace. Open the lid all the way and slide it sideways off of it's hinge.

[+GeoGeeBee]

I have just 'acquired' 4 fairly good condition ammo cans. Even though the seals are in great condition, and no rust on the cans. I was wondering if I should chuck a few sillica packs in to deal with the slight amount of water that may enter from cachers hands etc in the wet? Yay? Nay?

Don't bother. The silica gel will become saturated in a short time. After that, it will just be like having a wet sponge sitting in your cache.

[+paleolith]

Silica gel won't help unless you go replace it monthly. Once it's saturated, it doesn't do any good. It works better for lowering the relative humidity and will be very little help if someone opens the cache in a pouring rain.

 

I've seen totally waterproof containers wet inside because someone left hand cleaner or bubble stuff inside. Never leave any kind of liquid in a cache, no matter how well sealed. OK, I'll make one exception: towelettes sealed in foil packets (for cleaning, insect repellent, etc), since the quantity of liquid is very small.

 

The keys to a good container are a compressed seal and good material.

 

Ammo cans have a latch latch mechanism that compresses the seal. A screw top with a gasket works because screwing the lid on compresses the gasket; for example bison tubes, matchsafes, and preforms. Food-grade PETE jars (eg peanut butter jars) and some water bottles (eg Nalgene) seem to do well also, even though the gasket is mediocre in food jars and water bottles don't have a separate gasket. Lock-n-locks have a gasket of a different material from the body, and the locking mechanism compresses it.

 

"No plastic in the desert": it's better to know the materials rather than making a blanket statement, since "plastic" covers such a wide variety of materials. Learn what the codes mean, though recognize that some of the most radiation-resistant plastics aren't coded. Polyethylene (both HDPE and LDPE) breaks down quickly in sunlight, and unfortunately for cachers there's a lot of polyethylene lying around begging to be used -- Tupperware is LDPE. Polypropylene (PP) is in theory resistant to radiation damage but results vary: lock-n-locks do well in many environments (but check the material if you are getting a knock-off), but the quality of the PP seems to vary, and thin pieces degrade rapidly. (The cheap almost-disposable refrigerator containers are usually PP, and last about five minutes in sunlight. However, cosmetic jars are often PP and resist radiation very well, though they vary in water-tightness.)

 

PET/PETE, used in soda bottles, food-grade jars, and the like, resists radiation well. However, thin containers (thickness of soda bottles) are very susceptible to warping from heat -- the material may be OK yet the container is destroyed. Thicker containers, like PB jars and preforms, will handle sunlight well. However, the lid is usually a different material and unmarked, so you have to watch out for the case where the main container lasts but the lid doesn't. And there's nothing more waterlogged than a leak-proof container with a leaky lid.

 

ABS and polycarbonate (which are not labeled) are both very strong and highly resistant to radiation, and so make excellent containers when they have a good seal also. Matchsafes are made of ABS, as are various other containers you can buy intended for permanent use. Polycarbonate is harder to find as a container, though I've heard one person say he had found some. Acrylic (often known by the brand name Plexiglass) is fairly radiation-resistant though less so than ABS or polycarbonate (acrylic is often used for unbreakable windows, but sometimes yellows). I don't know of any containers available made from acrylic, but they should be good if you can find them.

 

And ... what was the question?

 

Edward

[knowschad]

I have just 'acquired' 4 fairly good condition ammo cans. Even though the seals are in great condition, and no rust on the cans. I was wondering if I should chuck a few sillica packs in to deal with the slight amount of water that may enter from cachers hands etc in the wet? Yay? Nay?

The way I see it, you may as well just drop a dry sponge in and see how well that works. Except that the sponge will soak up a lot more moisture. Those things are intended to remove a very small amount of humidity from a sealed container. Once they have done that, they need to be dried before they will remove any more. They don't get rid of moisture.

[+Paganmen]

Here in southwest VA I have placed a few caches using coffee cans or should I say the new plastic ones from Maxwell House or Folgers. They never get wet inside and they survive our winters. You can also spray paint them to blend in with their surroundings. They are also a decent size for medium size caches. I have seen other cachers now placing them as well.

[+nittanycopa]

Instead of the flimsy film containers, try diabetic test strip containers with the snap-top lid. They have to seal tight to protect the test strips. Downside - may crack in the heat or over a long span of time. Generally, though, they're a decent option for a smaller container.

[+d+n.s]

I find a LOT of cracked decon container lids.

 

I have never seen a cracked decon lid. I have found a couple of hundred of them, and my climate is similar to yours.

 

BTW, anyone know where to buy decons. I have eight saved, that I plan to use for maintenance. New ones seem to be rare, and the price is five times what I used to pay.

Weird. I wonder if we're just "lucky" ?

[+Too Tall John]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned 35mm film canisters. They are the best i've come across. Wait,, nevermind.

I just got an email with a suggestion on how to use film cans. Here's the video:

(BTW, some time ago, I posted instructions for an even more impressive film can gun.)

I started getting emails from the makers of the video after I bought a bunch of preforms from them. Good, inexpensive micros, in my opinion.

 

But then, the question was:

The ammo can, the lock and lock, true nano and of course the bsion tube. Now have any of you found these containers and because of location the turned out not to be a good container?

To limit the question to these 4 containers, yes.

1. Ammo Can: Anywhere these might be seen as a security risk (in front of a school, near a busy bridge, etc...) and a bomb squad might get called, this is a bad idea.
2. Lock'n'Lock: I think someone already said it, but put one of these under a rock & see how long before it is cracked, or at least warped enough for the gasket to fail. Also, I hid one in a spot where it got frozen in and someone tried to chip it out of the ice. Oops...
3. The Nano and the Bison Tube: I've found many of both of these containers that had completely degraded o-rings. I think a sheltered spot would help this, not sure, but I know that once they've failed a sheltered spot would have helped keep them dry.
    
   Also, as the Smurfy One implied above, hiding these in the woods might seem like a more challenging hide, but it just leads to more damage to surrounding vegetation.

To take the question in the opposite direction, there's containers that are a bad idea, unless you put them in the right location. The Altoids Tin and the above-mentioned Film Can come to mind. Neither is actually waterproof, in fact a flim flam can will suck water into itself, especially if it is hidden upside-down and water is resting in the edge of the lid lip.

[+hzoi]

Here in southwest VA I have placed a few caches using coffee cans or should I say the new plastic ones from Maxwell House or Folgers. They never get wet inside and they survive our winters. You can also spray paint them to blend in with their surroundings. They are also a decent size for medium size caches. I have seen other cachers now placing them as well.

 

Funny you should mention that. I just found a cache that used a plastic Maxwell House container. It was about half full of water and the contents were rotting away. So, they might be good, but they are far from infallible.

 

Not sure what you mean by "medium size," if you rate them as a regular, I guess that's technically correct, but they're on the small side of the "regular" range. I wouldn't use them, for the reasons I cited above, but if I did, I'd call them a small.

[+BlueDeuce]

...Guess maintence plays a big factor...

 

Yes it does.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

ANY container that can be opened can get wet inside. What is the point here?

If it can't be opened, it makes the container rather useless for geocaching.

[+A & J Tooling]

ANY container that can be opened can get wet inside. What is the point here?

If it can't be opened, it makes the container rather useless for geocaching.

 

Well if you use common sense then we can't have the drama! Party pooper!