DO you reviewers actually KNOW the area

[+Strange_Animal]

I recently tried to publish a second cache and a comment back that it was denied due to being on school property. The cache is obviously in a public park. Any IDIOT can tell just by puttting the co-ords in google maps. Interesting enough, not a bloody response when i relisted the cache explaining it wasnt on school property. Its bloody stupid, insane and anal retentive.

 

I am convinced half the reviewers dont know the area or even live in the same city or province

[Keystone]

I looked at your cache submission, whose coordinates are 300 feet across an open field from an elementary school. The test is not just "ON" school property, but rather "on or near."

 

Your reviewer did not "deny" your cache; rather, he asked for you to confirm permission for the hide. Permission is the best way to overcome an otherwise "off limits" location.

 

In your most recent reviewer note, you stated that "The school doesnt have teachers and security guards, patrolling the park, checking ID's." While that may be true, there will likely be teachers, security guards and parents present on the campus of the school, with eyes capable of seeing across the property border line. We saw example after example of "suspicious activity" calls to law enforcement in similar situations, and that is the reason why elementary and secondary schools are on the list of "off limits" locations.

 

I performed my analysis of your cache by looking at Google maps from my living room in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA. So, can I please be part of the bloody stupid, insane, anal retentive reviewer club like yours is there in Ontario? He is a great caching companion and I'd love to be in the same club.

 

As for reviewers knowing the area, it's impossible even to know one's immediate local area. I have been geocaching for almost nine years now, and fellow geocachers in my home area are STILL introducing me to new parks and trails, just miles from my own home. It's one of the coolest things about our hobby.

 

I hear the same sort of insult in my review territory, since I review many caches in Ohio though I live in Pennsylvania. I've found geocaches in all 88 counties in Ohio and all 67 counties in Pennsylvania, but odds are that I've not visited the parking lot or patch of woods where a particular cache is hidden. That is why reviewers use online mapping tools - the same ones available to cache owners.

[GOF and Bacall]

What kind of idiot would call his reviewer an idiot?

[+Bear and Ragged]

What kind of idiot would call his reviewer an idiot?

One that's:

bloody stupid, insane and anal retentive.

Or was your question rhetorical?

[GOF and Bacall]

What kind of idiot would call his reviewer an idiot?

One that's:

bloody stupid, insane and anal retentive.

Or was your question rhetorical?

[+wimseyguy]

There are probably several IDOITS who review in your province. Don't you want to call out the one who is also bloody stupid, insane and anal retentive before you get sent off to sit in the corner and cool down for a week?

 

PS if you spent more time in the forum you would already know that many reviewers are dogs. They tend to review by smell more than looking at the maps. I wonder how your cache smells now?

Edited April 10, 2011 by wimseyguy

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Hehehehehe.....

 

Sort of like calling the chef filthy names before he prepares your meal, isn't it? Now who is the idiot?

 

EDIT: Am glad that Keystone provided "the rest of the story" as that is usually the case when somebody blubbers and slobbers about how bad the reviewers are!

 

Hug your reviewer -- life is good.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Gitchee-Gummee

[Pup Patrol]

Beyond the issue of cache placement guidelines and polite communication with your reviewer is the breach of basic forum behaviour. On my forum, you would have earned a one week vacation with that opening post.

 

I don't know of any respectable forum that would allow postings that are insulting and are personal attacks. Posting insults and attacks against people who don't participate in the forum are especially low.

 

I also don't know of any respectable forum that doesn't have Guidelines clearly stated.

 

Groundspeak Forum Guidelines

 

The forum guidelines for posting are important and should be read and accepted before you choose to participate. Groundspeak and the global geocaching community encourage contributors who are courteous, polite and respectful. We discourage those who choose to behave in a disrespectful and/or irresponsible manner. Groundspeak, its staff and volunteer moderators will take appropriate steps to ensure discussions adhere to these guidelines.

 

Here are some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

1. Forum courtesy: Please treat Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, fellow community members, and guests on these boards with courtesy and respect. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they should be treated fairly.

 

3. Personal attacks and inflammatory behavior will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad. General attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

 

Simple rule of play: would you talk that way to the person if you were face-to-face with them?

 

One thing one should never do when in a rage is to log in. Take some time to cool down before posting.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Pup Patrol

[+-DeRock-]

Gee - an idiot is one of the nicer things I've been called!

 

Deane

[+narcissa]

We are lucky in Ontario to have several dedicated reviewers who are thorough, and make an effort to get out into the community to meet cachers. It is a comfort to know that they are on our side, trying to prevent the kind of disaster that can result from careless cache placements.

[Pup Patrol]

Gee - an idiot is one of the nicer things I've been called!

 

Deane

 

 

 

Your profile information is an excellent resource for all cachers. The detailed info for Michigan cachers is excellent.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Pup Patrol

[+Sapience Trek]

Add me to the "bloody stupid, insane and anal retentive" club. Is this an international club or is there a separate one for the states?

 

If this were in New York I would have posted the same thing whether the the cache were across the state or down the road. It's easy to resolve if you were to get proper permission so there aren't any incidents caused by security concerns around primary schools. It's not as easy to get resolved if you come to the forums to bash your reviewer for following the guidelines; believe it or not, that doesn't help your case at all.

[+BaylorGrad]

Just saying--This is the best topic ever. Love it.

[+onecrazycanadian]

Reviewers do not have an easy job and for obvious reasons cannot check each cache in person. Thus they use their best judgment when looking at a cache. After looking at the cache in question I agree with Keystones assessment. There is no need to insult the reviewer for doing their job. If the OP has a problem with a reviewers judgment they are free to contact appeals@geocaching.com for another opinion. The public forums are not the place for it.

[+ChileHead]

PS if you spent more time in the forum you would already know that many reviewers are dogs. They tend to review by smell more than looking at the maps. I wonder how your cache smells now?

 

Of course. They also tend to urinate in their review areas to make sure that other reviewers (dogs) who are not idiots, less bloody stupid, more sane and not anal retentive from coming in to review the area.

[+popokiiti]

Not on school grounds, but near...if I was a reviewer, I would double check cache placement too. The OP has beaten cancer twice - I would rather that was achieved than a cache be published without question and we lost you.

My Mum used to say "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" - it's better for us that way too.

Please remember swan_jun, that it is just a cache and work with] your reviewer...they are there to guide us to the best of their (non-paid) ability.

Edited April 10, 2011 by popokiiti

[+LukeTrocity]

Your reviewer probably loves geocaching and wants to protect the hobby. Don't hate on him/her for that!

[+StarBrand]

There's is usually a bit more to the story............

[+Strange_Animal]

Its frustrating and annnoying when i have come across many caches on school property. Right by the back school playground and in somne cases almost right in front of the school entrance.

 

I have come to a conclusion that if u r personal friends with a reviewer you caches tend to be reviewed quicker and / or a little bit more "flexibility" is given. Its not what you know...but who u know. Same with quite a few "FTF" in the Toronto area. I find it rather "coincidental" that a few ppl in my area always seem to have ftf's with people they go caching with on a regular basis.

 

As for the "life is good" comment someone wrote.... i would gladly trade places with u

[+Panther&Pine]

The reveiwers around here are nice. It helps if you are nice to them as well.

I don't think our reveiwer lives around here, but I don't know for sure- I don't know what their nonereveiwer account is so I wouldn't know it was them unless they told me.

 

 

 

 

Looks like you've got a few things that are irritating you right now.

[+popokiiti]

Those caches on school property/playgrounds (and we've found 'em) were placed before the latest guidelines came into effect and are now grandfathered.

Our reviewers for Vancouver Island are in the United States and Wizard of Ooze - I am not sure. Not personal friends at all.

Please bear in mind that our reviewers are volunteers, doing this in addition to everything life throws at them.

FTFs - there are groups and individuals who will drop everything,rush out in PJs

to grab the unsigned logbook. You have to have the energy and mindset to

do that - I don't. Reviewers DO NOT give advance notice of coords...some

COs might, though.

I wish you well, it sounds as if you're having a tough time and this cache thing is the final straw. If you think I can help in any way, pm me.

[+Sapience Trek]

Its frustrating and annnoying when i have come across many caches on school property. Right by the back school playground and in somne cases almost right in front of the school entrance.

I have published many caches on school property with permission from the school principal or superintendent. Often school science or gym classes will make a cache and submit it for publication to geocaching.com with explicit permission from the right people. Usually I'll ask that the cache page indicate this permission, but this may not always be the case. For the ones you have seen, it's likely they have proper permission already, but certainly some may have accidentally fallen through the cracks.

 

I have come to a conclusion that if u r personal friends with a reviewer you caches tend to be reviewed quicker and / or a little bit more "flexibility" is given. Its not what you know...but who u know.

Very unlikely. Personally, I am more likely to give less flexibility with my friends, and for my own caches even more so, to prevent any sort of indication of unfairness.

 

Same with quite a few "FTF" in the Toronto area. I find it rather "coincidental" that a few ppl in my area always seem to have ftf's with people they go caching with on a regular basis.

FTF is an unofficial side game that many do not play. If cachers want to share coordinates with their own friends first, or through an email, or local caching site, or on facebook, they have every right to. If it annoys you, then don't rush out to get FTFs on their caches.

[Keystone]

Its frustrating and annnoying when i have come across many caches on school property. Right by the back school playground and in somne cases almost right in front of the school entrance.

 

I have come to a conclusion that if u r personal friends with a reviewer you caches tend to be reviewed quicker and / or a little bit more "flexibility" is given. Its not what you know...but who u know. Same with quite a few "FTF" in the Toronto area. I find it rather "coincidental" that a few ppl in my area always seem to have ftf's with people they go caching with on a regular basis.

 

As for the "life is good" comment someone wrote.... i would gladly trade places with u

It's so sad to see you sink to mud slinging.

 

Knowing that there are people like you out there with your hand in the bucket of mud, I am actually stricter when reviewing caches submitted by a geocaching friend. Someone who favors their friends' caches would generate complaints to Groundspeak. A smart reviewer understands that. Your reviewer is smart - he's been doing this job for four years.

 

Ditto that for your veiled allegation that your reviewer whispers to his friends about FTF opportunities, or jumps the gun, looking for caches prior to publication. We follow ethical guidelines regarding such behavior. If you have specific examples with proof, you should contact Groundspeak. If not, then you should be thinking about your own ethical principles. There's a good person on the receiving end of that mud pie.

[+Starwolf013]

On a side note, I want to personally thank Keystone for the work that he does in reviewing and posting caches for the state of PA. With the quantity of emails I receive from this site informing me of a new cache placement approved by him, I can only imagine the amount of work he needs to put into reviewing caches! It seems like a thankless job, but it is one where recognition is deserved.

 

Thanks for keeping the game fresh and fun in the area, Keystone!

 

Oh... and be kind to your reviewers. They are the ones that work with CO's to give us something to do in this hobby.

[+Manville Possum]

I recently tried to publish a second cache and a comment back that it was denied due to being on school property. The cache is obviously in a public park. Any IDIOT can tell just by puttting the co-ords in google maps. Interesting enough, not a bloody response when i relisted the cache explaining it wasnt on school property. Its bloody stupid, insane and anal retentive.

 

I am convinced half the reviewers dont know the area or even live in the same city or province

 

Any responsable geocacher would know not to place a geocache on school grounds. That has been discussed in these forums before. Your listing should be denied.

[+CacheDrone]

Actually as the reviewer in question please allow me to walk you through the last few days.

 

Wednesday night I reviewed the note left for me and I took a few minutes to think about how I would respond to it. Then I decided that the note from the CO was just text and that I might be reading into it so I copied it to my wife via MSN and asked her "Please give me your opinion" and she felt there was attitude in the note left by the CO. Since her opinion matched mine I thought that it might be best to wait a few days to see if the CO opted to seek the requested permission or at least cool down a little. Thursday and Friday I didn't log on, instead I listened to a lot of music, watched some TV and generally enjoyed some non-reviewer time. Saturday I went caching and in the evening I logged on as CacheDrone only to help CacheViewer with some unresolved listings. So in short, over the last 72 hours I took a little "me" time to recharge. Considering that I normally volunteer 3-4 hours each and every day to geocaching.com, I think I'm allowed to do that.

 

You might want to ask some of my friends how little they get away with when it comes to me reviewing their caches. I'm very out in the open and I will not allow anyone to think that I gave a friend any special treatment. I am anal-retentive about the guidelines and my motto is "Granting exceptions requires exceptional reasons". My player friends all know that they are not friends with CacheDrone, they are friends with The Blue Quasar.

 

So if you have found caches that are published on or near school property that you feel are not inline with the guidelines then by all means enter a "Needs Archive" and I will look at it. As for your cache, I will get back to reviewing it shortly and please let me assure you that this thread will have no bearing on that process. I only review based on the Listing Requirements and Guidelines.

 

CD

[+popokiiti]

Nicely said CacheDrone.

[+narcissa]

Its frustrating and annnoying when i have come across many caches on school property. Right by the back school playground and in somne cases almost right in front of the school entrance.

 

I have come to a conclusion that if u r personal friends with a reviewer you caches tend to be reviewed quicker and / or a little bit more "flexibility" is given. Its not what you know...but who u know. Same with quite a few "FTF" in the Toronto area. I find it rather "coincidental" that a few ppl in my area always seem to have ftf's with people they go caching with on a regular basis.

 

As for the "life is good" comment someone wrote.... i would gladly trade places with u

 

1. If you find caches that break the guidelines in a manner that is so obviously detrimental to the game, report them to a reviewer. Things sometimes slip through despite the best efforts of the reviewers. Additionally, the guidelines are *very* clear that previously published listings do NOT set a precedent. Time to familiarize yourself with the guidelines so you can avoid these issues in the future.

 

2. The reviewers are very fair and do not play favourites. In fact, I suspect that if anything, a reviewer might lean towards being harder on his/her friends. If you're friends with a reviewer, you really ought to know better than to hide a cache in a place where it could cause serious public alarm, or to whine "but other caches are placed that way" when your cache is denied.

 

3. If your life isn't good, that's unfortunate, but it has no bearing on the reviewer's decision.

[+hukilaulau]

No, my local reviewer does not know all of the areas he/she reviews. Sometimes I have to provide more information before my cache is published. So approval might take an extra day as opposed to the few hours which seems like the typical amount of time it takes.

I don't know my reviewer personally. And yet I've had 84 caches approved and have gotten my share of FTF's without even really trying.

Being you must be painful.

[mresoteric]

I recently tried to publish a second cache and a comment back that it was denied due to being on school property. The cache is obviously in a public park. Any IDIOT can tell just by puttting the co-ords in google maps. Interesting enough, not a bloody response when i relisted the cache explaining it wasnt on school property. Its bloody stupid, insane and anal retentive.

 

I am convinced half the reviewers dont know the area or even live in the same city or province

 

Any responsable geocacher would know not to place a geocache on school grounds. That has been discussed in these forums before. Your listing should be denied.

 

If I am readying this right, the cache is NOT on school grounds. It is CLOSE to school grounds in a PUBLIC PARK.

 

I looked at your cache submission, whose coordinates are 300 feet across an open field from an elementary school. The test is not just "ON" school property, but rather "on or near."

 

While I don't agree with the OP's post, mostly because it is needlessly rude and agumentative, I do see why he is upset. He placed a cache in a public park, which normally only requires adequate permission. But due to the proximity to school property, the reviewer is requiring express permission.

 

Since we can't see the placement, we don't really know how it is situated in regards to the school. But I can understand the frustration.

[+Chokecherry]

Where I live it's not unusual for public parks to actually be on school property and not city property. Often very close to school grounds.

[sabrefan7]

Looks like some ones breakfast cereal was befouled. 4 different reviewers posting to your thread. Unless the cache has explicite permission granted, a school or play ground is the worst place for a cache to be near. Its just common sense

[+WRASTRO]

I recently tried to publish a second cache and a comment back that it was denied due to being on school property. The cache is obviously in a public park. Any IDIOT can tell just by puttting the co-ords in google maps. Interesting enough, not a bloody response when i relisted the cache explaining it wasnt on school property. Its bloody stupid, insane and anal retentive.

 

I am convinced half the reviewers dont know the area or even live in the same city or province

 

Any responsable geocacher would know not to place a geocache on school grounds. That has been discussed in these forums before. Your listing should be denied.

 

If I am readying this right, the cache is NOT on school grounds. It is CLOSE to school grounds in a PUBLIC PARK.

 

I looked at your cache submission, whose coordinates are 300 feet across an open field from an elementary school. The test is not just "ON" school property, but rather "on or near."

 

While I don't agree with the OP's post, mostly because it is needlessly rude and agumentative, I do see why he is upset. He placed a cache in a public park, which normally only requires adequate permission. But due to the proximity to school property, the reviewer is requiring express permission.

 

Since we can't see the placement, we don't really know how it is situated in regards to the school. But I can understand the frustration.

I really can't agree with seeing why the OP is upset. I do agree the OP is rude and other stuff. The guidlines do make it pretty clear a cache placement such as this is likely to be scrutinized rather carefully.

[+TerraViators]

I have come to a conclusion that if u r personal friends with a reviewer you caches tend to be reviewed quicker and / or a little bit more "flexibility" is given. Its not what you know...but who u know.

I don't believe Groundspeak or any reviewer would degrade the integrity of the process by playing favorites to personal friends. I at least hope that's not the case.

[+BCandMsKitty]

Sounds to me like a temper tantrum just because a reviewer asked for clarification/permission, and didn't respond RIGHT NOW!

 

I've dealt with cachedrone, and cacheviewer, and cacheminder, all very good reviewers for the area, and not one of them has ever been less than professional.

Sure, I've run afoul of some or other obscure (to me) listing guideline, from time to time, since they started helping me by reviewing my hides, and keeping me out of trouble, but maybe the difference is that I've been mature enough to take a deep breath, see the reason(s) for the hitch, and just change the cache to fit within the guidelines, or forget about it and move on.

 

AS far as I know, I've only met, and/or cached one of them, but to imply that they are less than ethical regarding their friends, to me is rude and uncalled for. Get a grip!

Edited April 11, 2011 by BC & MsKitty

[AZcachemeister]

We had a decent reviewer here in AZ a few years back... He would actually use tools not supplied by Groundspeak to see if a cache was on private property, a reservation, in a wilderness area.

 

Since then, we have had caches published in all three of the above forbidden zones. Recently these mistakes seem to have subsided.

 

@Keystone, 300 ft from the schoolyard? In AZ they can be published when they are attached to the freakin' schoolyard fence! Happened at least twice, and only comments from Geocachers got them shut down.

 

Let's just say that reviewer diligence and quality of effort varies widely from area to area, and no amount of complaining (or examples of poor performance) can get them 'relieved'.

[+entogeek]

This message is to the OP. May I suggest (and feel free to ignore my suggestion) that you take a deep breath, sit back a moment and exhale.

 

I see that this was to be your second cache and no doubt you are filled with anticipation and excitement waiting to see it published. BTW, in the interest of full disclosure, I was part of the FTF group on your first hide - we tend to travel in a pack as geocaching is very much a social activity. We were all moved by your story and pleased to share in on the find.

 

The first time I published a cache it was not accepted because I stated in my description that it was in a mailbox - caches cannot be located on Canada Post property. Being a newcomer I was quite disheartened - after all I was so excited waiting for my first cache to be published and it was denied. I wrote back to the reviewer and explained that it was an old rusty abandoned mailbox on a utility pole presumably for a house that existed decades ago but is no longer there. A simple response to the reviewer's request and my cache was published a few days later.

 

Fast forward a couple of years and 80 some odd hides later and that sense of anticipation is still there each and every time I wait to see if my new hide will be published. There have been hiccups along the way, and even an appeal to Groundspeak which was denied, but each reviewer demonstrated the utmost in professionalism. That's something to consider when you realize that they are volunteers who give freely of their time.

 

I'm sure if you work with your reviewer, that you can get your cache published.

Edited April 11, 2011 by entogeek

[+SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Placing caches near children schools may be a bit sketchy.

 

I placed a cache on my college campus property, with permission of faculty staff. Even gave him a run down, showed him where I placed it, and had him sign log. So that if he or staff sees somebody up to "suspicious behavior", they would be able to identify persons unknown. Although, I'm thinking if cache goes MIA, I'm going to relocate it to somewhere in camera view.

Did not have any issue getting it published, but cache placement near college may be more quickly acceptable than children school? /shrug

Edited April 11, 2011 by SaDiZTiKStyLeZ

[+Shop99er]

I have come to a conclusion that if u r personal friends with a reviewer you caches tend to be reviewed quicker and / or a little bit more "flexibility" is given. Its not what you know...but who u know.

 

I am friends with a number of reviewers, and I can't get away with squat. Mind sending me one of yours?

[+fizzymagic]

Isn't anal-retentive spelled with a hyphen?

 

(Yes, that is a classic one. I can't believe I got it first.)

[+hydnsek]

I have come to a conclusion that if u r personal friends with a reviewer you caches tend to be reviewed quicker and / or a little bit more "flexibility" is given. Its not what you know...but who u know.

 

I am friends with a number of reviewers, and I can't get away with squat. Mind sending me one of yours?

+1

Edited April 11, 2011 by hydnsek

[jholly]

I have come to a conclusion that if u r personal friends with a reviewer you caches tend to be reviewed quicker and / or a little bit more "flexibility" is given. Its not what you know...but who u know.

 

I am friends with a number of reviewers, and I can't get away with squat. Mind sending me one of yours?

And in fact one reviewer mentioned your better off not being friends because he runs his friends through a pretty tight ringer.

[knowschad]

What kind of idiot would call his reviewer an idiot?

I know someone that called their reviewer a doorknob once.

[Mr.Yuck]

My player friends all know that they are not friends with CacheDrone, they are friends with The Blue Quasar.

 

 

So then we can consider CacheDrone our enemy, right?

 

I'll bet you people deal with many angry people we'll never know about.

[+briansnat]

I have come to a conclusion that if u r personal friends with a reviewer you caches tend to be reviewed quicker and / or a little bit more "flexibility" is given. Its not what you know...but who u know.

 

I am friends with a number of reviewers, and I can't get away with squat. Mind sending me one of yours?

And in fact one reviewer mentioned your better off not being friends because he runs his friends through a pretty tight ringer.

 

I think most reviewers are a little harder on their friends. Best way to go is to not become friends with your reviewer. Then again, if your reviewer is in the closet, you might already be friends with your reviewer and not know it.

Edited April 11, 2011 by briansnat

[+Hemlock]

Then again, if your reviewer is in the closet, you might already be friends with your reviewer and not know it.

I'm not in the closet, but I don't advertise either. I was recently at an event and sitting at a table with a bunch of people. Somewhere along the line a newbie starts ranting about a new cache of his that his reviewer (not me) wouldn't publish because of an agenda. Several people around the table, who knew who I am, snickered. Meanwhile, I calmly asked him for a little more information, then explained the agenda guideline to him and suggested ways to tone his page down so it could be published. I also told him to knock off the attitude because his reviewer was a. just doing his job and b. is a human being just like him. And I told him "for all you know, your reviewer might be here at this event." (He was, standing just 50 feet away talking to another group of people.) In the end, I don't think this newbie ever got a clue that he was talking to a reviewer, but I do think I changed his attitude a little and hopefully he went home and edited his cache and got it published. Unfortunately he had a really long obtuse handle and I couldn't remember it if my life depended on it, so I can't look up his cache.

[+A & J Tooling]

Looks like some ones breakfast cereal was befouled. 4 different reviewers posting to your thread. Unless the cache has explicite permission granted, a school or play ground is the worst place for a cache to be near. Its just common sense

Looking at his profile, he seems to have limited mobility. So, I'd assume he's limited in where he goes.

 

You guys/gals are just too nice in the way ya'll are treating him.

[knowschad]

His reviewer... b. is a human being just like him.

That's not what this dog has heard.

[+Too Tall John]

Looking at his profile, he seems to have limited mobility.

Two things I don't see:

1. Evidence of the OP having limited mobility.
   
2. Why it matters.

Also, based on the pics in their profile that appear to be taken from arm's length, the OP appears to not be a he.

[+Castle Mischief]

I think most reviewers are a little harder on their friends. Best way to go is to not become friends with your reviewer. Then again, if your reviewer is in the closet, you might already be friends with your reviewer and not know it.

 

WINK WINK NOD NOD.