Inappropriate placement of nanos and micros

[knowschad]

Since the advent of soda machines millions of people have reached their hand into them to retrieve their sodas. I'd be more concerned that soda machines are private property.

 

So help me out here (seriously not sure of the definition). What constitutes adequate permission on a device placed for public use such as a pay phone, drinking fountain or, in this case a soda machine?

 

Asking the owner or his representative if it's ok to do so.

What I was looking for here was the difference between adequate and explicit permission. I have seen both terms used in this forum as if there was a distinction. Your reply seems like explicit permission.

 

Yes it is. But for a cache on private property like this explicit permission should be the minimum adequate permission. In a public park with no rules to the contrary assumed permission may be adequate. Each hide needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Some hides require a written permit as the minimum adequate permission acceptable.

So I may have adequate permission to place a cache on say a newspaper box located on a city sidewalk which I am rightfully able to be at any time of day just by my right to be there, whereas a cache on a similar paper box located at the front door of a private business may require explicit permission from the property owner?

 

Not quite right. You should get explicit permission for that paper box as it is private property. Look at it like this. If you park your bicycle in a public bike rack would it be ok if I put my bike lock on it? It's on public property that I am allowed to access.

I hate all the quotes, but I don't want to go outside of context (though it is getting kind of pretty.) Anyway, I totally disagree with this response. I'm not arguing that the paper box does or doesn't need permission, but I disagree with the comparison completely. We are NOT affecting use of the paper box or restricting use of the box in any way by placing a cache there. It would be more like placing a nano on the spokes of my bicycle. I doubt I'd ever notice it, if I did I would just get rid of it, and if I decided to use my bike, your nano would most likely be GONE.

 

I knew it would go this way. I never said I'd lock the bike up. Just lock my lock to your bike. Same as using the paper box for your cache. It is private property. It wouldn't be right. If you hid a cache on a paper box without asking you are assuming permission. That does not mean that it is adequate.

Don't I have permission to leave quarters in it? And nickles? Nanos? Dimes?

[knowschad]

My God! Think of the chinldren!

I thought we established years ago that Groundspeak hates chinldren?

 

No, I don't think they do hate chinldren. They just don't care about them.

Great guys now my daughter(7) thinks the Frog hates her.

 

You should NEVER let a frog talk to your daughter alone.

..................and police men too.

 

Its OK to let a frog talk to policemen alone.

[+the4dirtydogs]

My God! Think of the chinldren!

I thought we established years ago that Groundspeak hates chinldren?

 

No, I don't think they do hate chinldren. They just don't care about them.

Great guys now my daughter(7) thinks the Frog hates her.

She sounds very mature for her age.

She is.

[mresoteric]

 

Its OK to let a frog talk to policemen alone.

 

You shouldn't tell a frog what he can or cannot do. And don't tell him how to do his job either.

[AZcachemeister]

I appreciate your concerns.

So, someone put a gun to your head and FORCED you to find that cache?

 

Learn to walk away.

 

There are probably tens of thousands of caches out there that you won't enjoy.

 

Was it a stupid and pointless place to put a cache?

 

YOUBETCHA!

[knowschad]

I appreciate your concerns.

So, someone put a gun to your head and FORCED you to find that cache?

Hey... it could happen.

[+kissguy&frannyfru]

Look at it this way,there are 170 other logs,no other complaints about placement in any of em.... just sayin

[+headmj]

I said I found it. I did not say I pulled it out of the machine. A nice fellow from the fish store put his arm in the machine up to the elbow until he located it after I told him I did not find it and several before me did not find it. I did put it back about 2 inches above the opening. I also know that the vending machine engineers do great work but they don't know what's done to the machine after it leaves the plant. I do safety reviews and you would not believe the butchered repairs I have scene. Everybody thinks they are an electrician. Permission doesn't excuse stupid.

 

Also, it not an urban cache. The fish place is one of three places next to marina on Lake Erie near Westfield, NY.

 

Clearly nobody {remove inappropriate language] so I guess I won't care either.

 

Have a safe day.

 

[edit BruceS]

Edited April 8, 2011 by BruceS
Remove profanity

[+WRASTRO]

I said I found it. I did not say I pulled it out of the machine. A nice fellow from the fish store put his arm in the machine up to the elbow until he located it after I told him I did not find it and several before me did not find it. I did put it back about 2 inches above the opening. I also know that the vending machine engineers do great work but they don't know what's done to the machine after it leaves the plant. I do safety reviews and you would not believe the butchered repairs I have scene. Everybody thinks they are an electrician. Permission doesn't excuse stupid.

 

Also, it not an urban cache. The fish place is one of three places next to marina on Lake Erie near Westfield, NY.

 

Clearly nobody gives {remove inappropriate language} so I guess I won't care either.

 

Have a safe day.

Having worked for a number of years in the vending equipment industry, it is almost inconceivable to me that anyone could experience a problem with the electricity used to operate the soda machine simnply by reaching into the dispensing chute. These vending machines are built to be placed outside, in the rain. If there was a problem with the wiring or electronics the machine simply would not function. There are no exposed wires or electronics anywhere you could reach without opening the machine.

 

Lighten up just a bit.

Edited April 8, 2011 by BruceS
Remove quoted profanity

[+SwineFlew]

 

Save some for me please.

 

The more people whine about nano, the more I wanna hide one under a carpet of moss deep in the woods.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I guess I should archieve my "Nano in the Wood Chipper" cache.

 

That's the one up in Fargo, ND, isn't it?

 

Actually, it's the one up Brainerd, MN. Home of Paul Bunyan and Babe, the Blue Ox. I heard that it's a multi, and the final is a briefcase full of money.

[Mr.Yuck]

... I think the most likely listing issue is a lack of adequate permission.

Now that KBLAST has located the listing, I think the most likely listing issue is a faint whiff of commercialism.

 

The issue is not one of safety but rather one of permission. I seriously doubt such a cache had permission.

As was shown here, you'd be surprised how often caches like this have permission. Well less than half of urban micros hidden with permission will have cache pages that say this. The owners are happy to tell me this privately, however... often with contact information. Since so many ARE hidden with permission, I can assume that the rest do until proven otherwise. Or until Wal-Mart adopts an official geocaching policy so I have to ask prior to publication.

 

 

I don't live terribly far from your review area, and wild guess, I've probably found 100 caches in it. Have you ever considered that permission for retail store hides is a regional thing for your area? As in if a couple of well-known Western Pa. or Ohio cachers are known to always get permission for such hides, that it sort of catches on with others?

 

I just don't get the cache owners who get permission, but not say anything on the cache page. I can't remember seeing a cache in a State Park that doesn't list the CO's permit number. There are actually people like me out there who base their decision on looking for such caches on seeing this on the cache page. I clearly remember rummaging around in the bushes of a beauty shop in Central Ohio looking for an ammo box last summer.

[+sbell111]

Since the advent of soda machines millions of people have reached their hand into them to retrieve their sodas. I'd be more concerned that soda machines are private property.

 

So help me out here (seriously not sure of the definition). What constitutes adequate permission on a device placed for public use such as a pay phone, drinking fountain or, in this case a soda machine?

 

Asking the owner or his representative if it's ok to do so.

What I was looking for here was the difference between adequate and explicit permission. I have seen both terms used in this forum as if there was a distinction. Your reply seems like explicit permission.

 

Yes it is. But for a cache on private property like this explicit permission should be the minimum adequate permission. In a public park with no rules to the contrary assumed permission may be adequate. Each hide needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Some hides require a written permit as the minimum adequate permission acceptable.

So I may have adequate permission to place a cache on say a newspaper box located on a city sidewalk which I am rightfully able to be at any time of day just by my right to be there, whereas a cache on a similar paper box located at the front door of a private business may require explicit permission from the property owner?

 

Not quite right. You should get explicit permission for that paper box as it is private property. Look at it like this. If you park your bicycle in a public bike rack would it be ok if I put my bike lock on it? It's on public property that I am allowed to access.

I hate all the quotes, but I don't want to go outside of context (though it is getting kind of pretty.) Anyway, I totally disagree with this response. I'm not arguing that the paper box does or doesn't need permission, but I disagree with the comparison completely. We are NOT affecting use of the paper box or restricting use of the box in any way by placing a cache there. It would be more like placing a nano on the spokes of my bicycle. I doubt I'd ever notice it, if I did I would just get rid of it, and if I decided to use my bike, your nano would most likely be GONE.

 

I knew it would go this way. I never said I'd lock the bike up. Just lock my lock to your bike. Same as using the paper box for your cache. It is private property. It wouldn't be right. If you hid a cache on a paper box without asking you are assuming permission. That does not mean that it is adequate.

It's still a broken analogy.

 

A perfect one would be a micro cache on the public bike rack. A non-geocaching one would be whether it is OK for you to lock your skateboard to the bike rack.

[mresoteric]

I don't live terribly far from your review area, and wild guess, I've probably found 100 caches in it. Have you ever considered that permission for retail store hides is a regional thing for your area? As in if a couple of well-known Western Pa. or Ohio cachers are known to always get permission for such hides, that it sort of catches on with others?

 

I just don't get the cache owners who get permission, but not say anything on the cache page. I can't remember seeing a cache in a State Park that doesn't list the CO's permit number. There are actually people like me out there who base their decision on looking for such caches on seeing this on the cache page. I clearly remember rummaging around in the bushes of a beauty shop in Central Ohio looking for an ammo box last summer.

Maybe if it's a regional thing and everyone tends to ask for permission for their caches they assume that everyone knows permission was obtained without need to say so on the cache.

[+roziecakes]

I appreciate that I don't have to do this. I think this is UNSAFE. You had to reach well past where you would have retrieved a can of soda. This stuff is outside and I don't think we should be tempting the terminally dumb to do stupid things.

 

Mike

 

There are tons of caches out there that are unsafe. My husband climbed down the side of a ravine on cables to retrieve a cache inside an old train that was wrecked in a creek 150 feet below the road. There is a cache inside an old nuclear site, there are caches underwater, and caches in the tops of trees. What this boils down to, is we all have choice. Some folks get off on doing dangerous stuff.

 

As another poster said, my main concern would be that the pop machine is private property, but since the cache owner had permission, it's fine!

Edited April 8, 2011 by nymphnsatyr

[+skisidedown]

I guess I should archieve my "Nano in the Wood Chipper" cache.

 

Stumpy says it's about dang time!

 

(He'd type this himself but, well, you know what with the incident, and his fingers and all...)

I laughed at the first Nano in the Wood Chipper.

 

But i fell off my chair at stumpy!