FTF question

[+bsnyr]

My husband, son and I have been caching for a couple of years, we don't get out as much as we would like, but have 80 finds, own a eTrex Vista (that my husband operates, I haven't learned how, plus, I carry the compass when we cache anyways) and have a premium membership on geocaching.com.

 

Saw an email that a cache had been published about 30 minutes prior, very close to my home. So close in fact, that I knew EXACTLY where it was without the GPSr, by the title and description. I didn't look at the map, and had some errands to run in the area anyways so out I went. I was kindof excited because we had never had a FTF and it should have been a quick park and grab. I get to the location but I can't reach the cache without hurting myself, so I go on my way without logging. I run my errands and pick up my son, we head back because I knew that the boy was smaller and could get to the cache. Figured we wouldn't get to see that clean log book that everyone talks about but oh well. Son grabs the cache and I open it up and low and behold it is unsigned. I sign and head home to log the find. When I get home I see that the cache has been disabled because the co ordinates are wrong. I log that I found it, but noted that I didn't use the GPSr and commented that this "would have been my first FTF". Checked the map and saw that the co ordinates were off by about 1/2 mile. Got an email from a DNF because he was looking where the co ordinates were and asked me for a hint. I him a hint and he commented that I should claim the FTF, meanwhile cache owner posts a congratulations to me as well. When husband got home he took the GPSr out and got the correct coordinates and forwarded them to cache owner. Meanwhile another DNF posts upset that owner shouldn't have posted that I was FTF since I used the name and description to find the cache and not the coordinates.

 

I was excited about the find, but not if it is going to discredit us as cachers or ruin the owner's credibility. Wondering what the thoughts are about this?

Edited April 5, 2011 by bsnyr

[+Panther&Pine]

Doesn't matter that you didn't use a GPS to find it, you found it, you signed a blank log book, and you get to log your find online!

[+rawkhopper]

My husband, son and I have been caching for a couple of years, we don't get out as much as we would like, but have 80 finds, own a eTrex Vista (that my husband operates, I haven't learned how, plus, I carry the compass when we cache anyways) and have a premium membership on geocaching.com.

 

Saw an email that a cache had been published about 30 minutes prior, very close to my home. So close in fact, that I knew EXACTLY where it was without the GPSr, by the title and description. I didn't look at the map, and had some errands to run in the area anyways so out I went. I was kindof excited because we had never had a FTF and it should have been a quick park and grab. I get to the location but I can't reach the cache without hurting myself, so I go on my way without logging. I run my errands and pick up my son, we head back because I knew that the boy was smaller and could get to the cache. Figured we wouldn't get to see that clean log book that everyone talks about but oh well. Son grabs the cache and I open it up and low and behold it is unsigned. I sign and head home to log the find. When I get home I see that the cache has been disabled because the co ordinates are wrong. I log that I found it, but noted that I didn't use the GPSr and commented that this "would have been my first FTF". Checked the map and saw that the co ordinates were off by about 1/2 mile. Got an email from a DNF because he was looking where the co ordinates were and asked me for a hint. I him a hint and he commented that I should claim the FTF, meanwhile cache owner posts a congratulations to me as well. When husband got home he took the GPSr out and got the correct coordinates and forwarded them to cache owner. Meanwhile another DNF posts upset that owner shouldn't have posted that I was FTF since I used the name and description to find the cache and not the coordinates.

 

I was excited about the find, but not if it is going to discredit us as cachers or ruin the owner's credibility. Wondering what the thoughts are about this?

First to sign is first to find in my book. Even if you stumbled on it by accident before it was finally published I still say you got first to find. Everything on a cache page is a clue and just because the coordinates a bungled (likely due to typo) does not change the fact that you were first to find and retrieve log and sign it.

Edited April 5, 2011 by rawkhopper

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Congratulations with getting that first FTF out of the way!

 

It really doesn't matter how you found the cache -- you found it! It's YOUR FTF.

 

Any other person bemoaning your method of finding is simply off-base and nothing to be concerned about.

Nothing says you must use a GPSr to find, nor does anything say that the coords must be correct in order for you to make that find.

 

If you have the capabilities to recognize exactly where to look from the description, more power to you.

 

Good Job!

[Mr.Yuck]

You sir, are FTF. As they say, that and $7.50 will get you a Coffee at Starbucks.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

You sir, are FTF. As they say, that and $7.50 will get you a Coffee at Starbucks.

You should give her the $7.50 for calling her "sir". :lol:

[+buttaskotch]

Congrats! Many people use Google maps instead of GPSrs when they first start caching, others use compasses and maps. Your used your noggin and honestly thats part of the game. For those that said what they did on the cache page, just ignore em, they sound like they are sour because they didn't figure out what you did. had they, they probably would have done exactly what you did and claim the find,

[+wiseye]

You are first to find, no one can take that away from you. Be proud of how you found it....you don't need no stinkin' gps!

[+captnemo]

My husband, son and I have been caching for a couple of years, we don't get out as much as we would like, but have 80 finds, own a eTrex Vista (that my husband operates, I haven't learned how, plus, I carry the compass when we cache anyways) and have a premium membership on geocaching.com.

 

Saw an email that a cache had been published about 30 minutes prior, very close to my home. So close in fact, that I knew EXACTLY where it was without the GPSr, by the title and description. I didn't look at the map, and had some errands to run in the area anyways so out I went. I was kindof excited because we had never had a FTF and it should have been a quick park and grab. I get to the location but I can't reach the cache without hurting myself, so I go on my way without logging. I run my errands and pick up my son, we head back because I knew that the boy was smaller and could get to the cache. Figured we wouldn't get to see that clean log book that everyone talks about but oh well. Son grabs the cache and I open it up and low and behold it is unsigned. I sign and head home to log the find. When I get home I see that the cache has been disabled because the co ordinates are wrong. I log that I found it, but noted that I didn't use the GPSr and commented that this "would have been my first FTF". Checked the map and saw that the co ordinates were off by about 1/2 mile. Got an email from a DNF because he was looking where the co ordinates were and asked me for a hint. I him a hint and he commented that I should claim the FTF, meanwhile cache owner posts a congratulations to me as well. When husband got home he took the GPSr out and got the correct coordinates and forwarded them to cache owner. Meanwhile another DNF posts upset that owner shouldn't have posted that I was FTF since I used the name and description to find the cache and not the coordinates.

 

I was excited about the find, but not if it is going to discredit us as cachers or ruin the owner's credibility. Wondering what the thoughts are about this?

First to sign is first to find in my book. Even if you stumbled on it by accident before it was finally published I still say you got first to find. Everything on a cache page is a clue and just because the coordinates a bungled (likely due to typo) does not change the fact that you were first to find and retrieve log and sign it.

+1 You are the FTF!

[+M 5]

I claim all FTF's. You are 2nd. Congratulations!!!

[+bsnyr]

I claim all FTF's. You are 2nd. Congratulations!!!

 

Heck, I'd be happy with 2nd!

 

I never had much hope for a FTF before and it really didn't bother me, but this was so close, I saw it relatively soon after it was published and I was going that way anyways..... I got excited.

 

Thanks everyone!

[Pup Patrol]

Meanwhile another DNF posts upset that owner shouldn't have posted that I was FTF since I used the name and description to find the cache and not the coordinates.

 

Phhhttt to the sour grapes posted on the cache page.

 

congratulations on your FFTF!

 

Looks like the cache owner needs to post the correct coordinates through an "edit listing" log, though.

[+rawkhopper]

I claim all FTF's. You are 2nd. Congratulations!!!

 

Heck, I'd be happy with 2nd!

 

I never had much hope for a FTF before and it really didn't bother me, but this was so close, I saw it relatively soon after it was published and I was going that way anyways..... I got excited.

 

Thanks everyone!

I know what it is like to have a mediocre experience on the FTF. My first (of only two) was somewhere I frequent. So I was so excited, I got there only to find someone looking already. Then a few seconds after I found GZ I found it. I felt bad so I offered FTF to the other cacher since they were there first. They declined the offer graciously. It wasn't until my second FTF which was less than a mile from my house that I felt like a real FTF. I claim both but it was somewhat reluctantly. Although if I were the other cacher I would have declined as well. I just like things better when they are clear cut.

[+StarBrand]

FTF is a statement of fact not something that is awarded. First person to find the cache and sign the logbook by whatever method is at hand.

 

FTF and 2 quarters will get you a pop at the vending machine over on Main street in my town. As a bonus - 2 quarters work equally well.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Congrats on the FTF. One of my favorites had bad coords. I figured his west coords were bad, so I searched a line due south. Three trips later, I finally found it .18 due south. Astounded everyone with that one.

[+bflentje]

FTF. Ignore the whining FTF-Hound Wannabes.

[+elrojo14]

I have found two different caches first even though the coordinates were off by .5 miles and another by 1.5 miles. I know my town so well, I tracked them down. You bet I am going to claim FTF.

 

FTF is all about you. Post the name of the tool who thinks it is unfair you were the first to find the cache because the coordinates were off and they think they should get it for being not the first to find. People like this ruin Geocaching. There will be more caches. If I miss FTF, I miss FTF. The cache still is hopefully worth finding and a entertaining use of my time or it isn't. FTF doesn't change anything.

[+bflentje]

I have found two different caches first even though the coordinates were off by .5 miles and another by 1.5 miles. I know my town so well, I tracked them down. You bet I am going to claim FTF.

 

FTF is all about you. Post the name of the tool who thinks it is unfair you were the first to find the cache because the coordinates were off and they think they should get it for being not the first to find. People like this ruin Geocaching. There will be more caches. If I miss FTF, I miss FTF. The cache still is hopefully worth finding and a entertaining use of my time or it isn't. FTF doesn't change anything.

 

While I agree about FTF, the bolded comment you made is highly unecessary.

[+bsnyr]

I have found two different caches first even though the coordinates were off by .5 miles and another by 1.5 miles. I know my town so well, I tracked them down. You bet I am going to claim FTF.

 

FTF is all about you. Post the name of the tool who thinks it is unfair you were the first to find the cache because the coordinates were off and they think they should get it for being not the first to find. People like this ruin Geocaching. There will be more caches. If I miss FTF, I miss FTF. The cache still is hopefully worth finding and a entertaining use of my time or it isn't. FTF doesn't change anything.

 

While I agree about FTF, the bolded comment you made is highly unecessary.

 

It doesn't matter who it was, they just think that it was "silly" to name FTF as someone who didn't use the coordinates.

 

My family and I enjoy caching, it gets us outside, away from the tv and computer. My husband and I enjoy pointing out things to my son that many kids don't take the opportunity to see. We teach him to respect the beauty that is around us everyday. We have visited earth caches with fossils and historic WWII towers that have caches nearby. My husband is a history buff, so those things fascinate him and he passes his excitement onto us. My Dad would take my sisters and myself into the woods where he used to hunt and teach us about trees and plants, and I teach my son. We look for birds and wildlife. We practice CITO because too many people don't respect nature and our environment. Bottles and cans that we pick up get returned for the deposit and goes into the jar to pay for my son's cub scout summer camp. Sure we grab things from the car, it makes every trip an adventure. I just didn't want this FTF thing to be a big deal, I honestly didn't think I would care. I guess I just got my feelings hurt a bit by someone thinking that my excitement was silly. I will take my "first to have signed the log" and remind myself that if we weren't cachers I wouldn't even have known where to look. So there, I am a real geocacher after all. Thanks everyone

[+Team GPSaxophone]

FTF can also stand for beta-tester. Sometimes you have to do more work to earn that FTF. Seems like the other guy wanted to just put the coordinates in and go, you were willing to go the extra mile and rightly deserve the FTF.

[+RebelTJ]

That's one heck of a FTF!!! Ignore the person whining... they're just unhappy that you got to it first!

[+LewisClan77]

AHHHH! One of the perks of the FTF game. You get to be first to test the coords. Out of my 500 FTFs, I have seen this exact situation a few times. One of them had coords more than 10 miles off, but the description led me to it.

 

I do agree with the other guy though, AWARDING you the FTF would be silly. Good thing you found it first and earned the FTF.

[+badger10]

You are definitely FTF. I have had quite a few finds where I did not need a gps to find the cache. I had an experience where my daughter and I were a FTF on a cache. I was surprised to find someone had claimed FTF when we got home. I emailed the guy and after a few "What was in the cache?" "What did you take" "What time did you find it?" type questions he realized he was a little late. He didn't realize that on some logs there is a FTF section. All he saw was a blank log below the cache info on the log. Thats why I check out all the pages/sides of a log to make sure I am first. It was also my daughter first FTF.

[+the4dirtydogs]

That's a pretty sweet FTF. Congrats on your 1st FTF.

[+CanadianRockies]

AHHHH! One of the perks of the FTF game. You get to be first to test the coords. Out of my 500 FTFs, I have seen this exact situation a few times. One of them had coords more than 10 miles off, but the description led me to it.

It sounds like you had a similar experience to the only people to post an online log for GCW254. The cache owner mistakenly posted the parking coordinates, and the actual cache was 6 kilometres away. Unfortunately, the physical log wasn't empty, so the online loggers couldn't even claim a FTF.

[+rickardclan]

We went to find a cache a while back, the co-ords were duff - I found a mag nano that had a virgin log in it so I signed it (as did the team that was with us) but also searched nearby and found another, larger, cache that had the same name as the cache we'd come to find, so we signed that log too.

 

Turns out the mag nano was the actual cache, but that other cachers had found it previously (but not signed log) - when the mess was eventually sorted out - the other cache was an archived one it seemed - the other cachers claimed the FTF.

 

Now not being all that bothered about FTFs (I have a few on merit, so meh) but we did put ink on the log first!

 

On a related note, if you post a DNF and it turns out to be missing/not there when you searched, do you bother changing your log type to note, or otherwise?

[+Nived87]

I made a find without using my GPSr once. It was about a mile from my house in a very small park. I had forgot to print the cache listing or put the coordinates in my GPSr. I ended up being third to find.

 

If you signed the log first, it's a FTF. Geocaches have to have coordinates but you don't have to use them to make the find.

[+popokiiti]

Congratulations on your FTF!! Using the description, you (and especially your son) got the cache, and the blank log which you signed. You also made two trips, so you deserve it! It is unfortunate that the coordinates were in error, but that is not your fault. If anything the other cacher should take the matter up with the CO. They can always claim FTF with the revised coords if they want....

Here's to your next FTF - may it be trouble free!

[+kpanko]

On a related note, if you post a DNF and it turns out to be missing/not there when you searched, do you bother changing your log type to note, or otherwise?

Well, "did not find" seems to describe the situation for both "it was there" and "it was not there," so there is no need to change it.

 

It would be a lot of work for everyone to try to find out if it was there, and go back to change their DNF logs, if we were expected to be doing that.

[+baloo&bd]

If you look back through my posts, you will see that I neither care nor really recognize FTFs and EVEN I think that you got the FTF. Blank log, first to sign, first to find.

[+SteAngDavZac]

First to sign.....is a first to find(as long as it is not a replaced log )

[mresoteric]

You don't even have to be geocacher to be FTF, right? As long as you find it and are first to sign the log?

[+Tobias & Petronella]

There have been many FTFs that we have found were two to 200-300 feet off. Our personal record for an FTF with bad coords was a Multi that put the final over 3,500 feet from where we found the cache. As long as you didn't have special info from the CO then anybody could have done what you did. You were the first to find and sign the cache. The FTF and a good story is yours.

[+DanOCan]

It sounds like you had a similar experience to the only people to post an online log for GCW254. The cache owner mistakenly posted the parking coordinates, and the actual cache was 6 kilometres away. Unfortunately, the physical log wasn't empty, so the online loggers couldn't even claim a FTF.

 

Putting that one in my GSAK database (with the corrected coordinates, of course!) just in case I'm ever in the area. Shame that it's sitting there in an Archived state.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

On a related note, if you post a DNF and it turns out to be missing/not there when you searched, do you bother changing your log type to note, or otherwise?

Well, "did not find" seems to describe the situation for both "it was there" and "it was not there," so there is no need to change it.

 

It would be a lot of work for everyone to try to find out if it was there, and go back to change their DNF logs, if we were expected to be doing that.

If it isn't there you certainly didn't find it. If it is there and you didn't find it, well, same thing. It should never matter if the cache is in place or not, if you didn't find it it's a DNF.

[+bsnyr]

My find is even more interesting now, the CO has archived it so we were the first and only ones to find it.

[Mr.Yuck]

My find is even more interesting now, the CO has archived it so we were the first and only ones to find it.

 

Good thing the reviewer didn't decide to retract the listing! (as if it never existed). Obviously too close to a leg of a puzzle. Here's another vote from someone who couldn't care less about the whole "FTF thing" that you are FTF. Oh, and sorry about calling you a dude.

[+Kryten]

I found a puzzle cache which featured lots of questions about bridges. The dummy co-ordinates were on a modern concrete bridge over a freeway but I found the cache not by solving the puzzle but by assuming that the final co-ordinates was probably close to a bridge too. I then went to a really interesting old disused stone built bridge about half a mile away and used the clue once I got there. I had no qualms about claiming the find and if I had been FTF I'd have claimed that too. A find is a find.

[+hzoi]

After we moved back to the States, I noticed a cache around Charlottesville that hadn't been found yet and had a bunch of notes indicating the coordinates were on private land, posted "No Trespassing." I took a look at the description and the hints and guessed that the coordinates were off by a minute of longitude. That one key digit makes a big difference, in this case, about 4800 feet.

 

I figured I'd take a stab at it, so I took a break from unpacking our household goods and went for it. Found it, logged it, claimed the FTF, and took a picture of the log book (which had the correct coordinates on the cover). The local cachers were kind enough to congratulate us on being FTF, but we'd've claimed it regardless.

 

And now that you're the ONLY finder, it's a no-brainer. You also get LTF, which always makes things interesting.

[+SwineFlew]

No guideline for FTF so you can make your own rules.

[+rickardclan]

On a related note, if you post a DNF and it turns out to be missing/not there when you searched, do you bother changing your log type to note, or otherwise?

Well, "did not find" seems to describe the situation for both "it was there" and "it was not there," so there is no need to change it.

 

It would be a lot of work for everyone to try to find out if it was there, and go back to change their DNF logs, if we were expected to be doing that.

 

I have to be brutally honest, I'm not really worried about DNFs anymore, at one time I used to be (from say find 1 to find 200 - we've just passed 300 now) as I sort of saw it as a bad thing, but I realise the significance of the log now.

 

Know for a fact that other cachers have not found hides but not logged the fact either, kind of flies in the face of the spirit of the game really, so my DNF will stay as was, and we will get back there and find the cache (as it's now been replaced) this weekend.

 

Happy Days!

[+Tobias & Petronella]

No guideline for FTF so you can make your own rules.

So are you saying that I can tear out the pages of the logbooks so that my name is the only one there and back date the posts to claim the FTF for ALL caches that I find from now on?

 

Thanks! :laughing:

[+GeoGeeBee]

No guideline for FTF so you can make your own rules.

So are you saying that I can tear out the pages of the logbooks so that my name is the only one there and back date the posts to claim the FTF for ALL caches that I find from now on?

 

Thanks! :laughing:

No one will stop you. If you attend events, you'll hear a lot of giggling coming from behind you, and a lot of people will stop their conversations when you walk up to them. You might even catch someone, out of the corner of your eye, pointing at you.

[+roziecakes]

No guideline for FTF so you can make your own rules.

So are you saying that I can tear out the pages of the logbooks so that my name is the only one there and back date the posts to claim the FTF for ALL caches that I find from now on?

 

Thanks! :laughing:

 

Edit: Pardon me, that was rude. Mom said if you didn't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all, so I'm taking it off. Sorry to the mods.

Edited April 8, 2011 by nymphnsatyr

[+roziecakes]

Anyhoo, to the original poster; congratulations on your first FTF! That's awesome!! I'm sorry that you had to go through a bit of a fuss though. While it's true that there aren't any official rules regarding FTF, there are some widely accepted guidelines, like if you were the first to sign it, you are the FTF; regardless of the way you found it. I think some other FTF behavior is regional; like around here if we go with the CO to hide the cache, we won't claim firsties, we'll let someone else do it, even though we may be the first to sign. In other places, this may be perfectly acceptable. This is why you've gotten so many responses on here saying it's fine for you to claim FTF on this cache.

 

Again, congrats and here's to more FTFs for you in the future!!

[+Don_J]

Well, since the topic got bumped, I'll add that if I were in the area, I would build a multi cache based on the object at the site of the archived cache. Either that, or wait until Virtuals are restored.

 

If I was in the area, I would be very happy if someone brought me to the object by way of a Geocache.

[+Don_J]

Another thing to note. FTF caching has no real rules, but in certain regions, cachers kind of come to a agreement of what is acceptable. In my area, if a new cache comes out with a transposed coordinate, or some other such error, and some one is clever enough to see through it and find the cache, we pat them on the back, instead of sending annoying emails.

[+retrofit]

not that anyone is an authority on FTFs... but from my experence (530ftf with 42 months of consecutive FTF nov 2007 to april 2011), i feel that these issues are the fun part of FTF, the cache is set up an intended, you take a risk and have to deal with mistakes which sometimes ends with DNFs. I find no huge joy in locating a cache that has a trail to the cache site, a foot ring where the cache is located, the branches have all been bent back, and is visable from 10 feet away. I would disregard the cacher, wonder if he ever found one that was 20 feet off (same issue only larger) and be proud that even though the geocaching gods were against you, you came up victorious. anyone who gets to the finish line second always has an excuse or needs someone to blame.

 

what you found was a miss labled puzzle cache. (bad joke)

[+TerraViators]

Congrats on the FTF. One of my favorites had bad coords. I figured his west coords were bad, so I searched a line due south. Three trips later, I finally found it .18 due south. Astounded everyone with that one.

HD,

 

A local DFW cacher, auctnr, once found a cache that was two miles off the posted coords. He figured they fat fingered the numbers, so he searched the likey spots after transposing the coords. Pretty amazing. This guy is known for that kind of stuff. He has a bookmark for caches he's found with bad coords.

[+Sol seaker]

The guidelines say you have to sign the log. Nowhere do they say you have to use a GPS.