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Geocaching.com should create a leader board


rjt

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quote:
Originally posted by spinwebby:

GPGeocaching would be interested in developing a leader board,....... We had volunteers from our group offering to help, but we understand that its hard to organize that, too.

 

If gc.com would provide a web service of the data to us, we would be happy to provide a leaderboard for everyone.

 

SpinWebby

http://www.gpgeocaching.com


 

Great News!! icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif Thanks GPGeocaching and SpinWebby a lot!!!

 

Life short, Hunt more.

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I like having a way to quickly show me how my friends and fellow area cachers are doing. It is also fun to keep up with others met during trips to different areas. I would be willing to do whatever I could to support a stats page.

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One of the wonderful things about this sport is it's adaptability. For the entry price of a GPS device anyone can find an approach that will meet there desires. If you just want a lot of great hikes, you can do that. If you want to find lots of interesting spots you can do that. Like riddles? You can find plenty. If you want to rack up numbers you can do that too.

 

And if you want to compete you can do that. It's going on I assure you, whether there is a stats page or not. There is a significant (perhaps majority) for whom competition is an important part of caching.

 

The beauty is that those for whom it is NOT important need play no part. If you think caches that involve riddles are a foolish waste of caching time, then skip them and leave them to the people who enjoy them. If you don't care who the leaders are then don't pull up the stats page. Why would you need to enforce your antipathy toward competition on others for whom it is an important part of the fun?

 

The only question here is whether geocaching.com will fulfull the desires of those who want quick, convienient methods of tracking their results in relation to others. All the whinning type issues like, "What do we count?" or "Some people have more time", or "How the heck can I catch Lil' Otter?" can all be answered by making the stats as flexible as possible, allowing anyone to compete on a level and in a way that suits them. Or to not compete at all by ignoring the whole thing. They could even be allowed to opt out by an option that allowed them to keep their stats private.

 

Who doesn't love flexability?

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I would join immediately if a useful stats leaderboard similar to Dan's page was created.

 

I also love seeing geocachers that don't post regularly coming out of the woodwork to weigh in on this topic.

 

southdeltan

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

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quote:
There have always been people who pump up their totals through fake finds, or just by knocking off bunches of 1/1 caches and ignoring anything that takes more than 15 minutes to find.

 

If this is a concern you could always weight the finds for a leaderboard according to terrain and difficulty. Harder they are to get more points you receive.

 

I'm a birder and there are definitely two groups of people, those who care about stats and those who don't. For those who don't they just ignore the stats. For those who do we keep making up new stats just to make it more fun to go out to new places.

 

Stats by the year, county, state, etc.

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If there is a stats page or leaderboard, I would suggest giving hides the same credit as a find, in other words add hides+finds together for the total count (like Dan Miller's site did). If others can get credit for their totals by finding your cache, then you should also get a credit for hiding it. Otherwise, why hide caches if no credit given? Then if no one hides caches, eventually no one will be finding new caches, then the sport is no longer.

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quote:
Originally posted by geospotter:

quote:
Originally posted by IceCreamMan:

 

The beauty is that those for whom it is NOT important need play no part.


 

Except, of course, to pay for its development.


 

Development cost are certainly a factor, but I haven't seen any indication from gc.com that the costs are what is preventing it. At risk of sounding like a politition, it would probably pay for itself. This would give people another reason to become a Premium Member and to renew that Premium Membership. Supporting the web sight is nice but some need a dollars and sense reason to spend thirty bucks. I haven't been through all these forums but I've seen enough posts that say, "I would pay for this", with respect to stats.

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One of our local cachers to South Australia, KarmicKev, had an idea a while back for a weighted average he called "GeoBrags" - at least, I think it was his idea ... I haven't seen anyone else with a similar concept.

 

Basically, a score for each cache was calculated by multiplying the difficulty by the terrain by the distance from home. So 5/5 caches would be worth more than 1/1s, and finds on the other side of the country would be worth more than those local to you. It also means that a single cache would be "worth" a different amount to every team.

 

Me, Im quite happy just to work on numbers. Difficulties, multis, virtuals, etc... you only log the find once on the website, so you only get to claim one find. I'd also be willing to sign up as a member if stats were being offered.

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quote:
Basically, a score for each cache was calculated by multiplying the difficulty by the terrain by the distance from home. So 5/5 caches would be worth more than 1/1s, and finds on the other side of the country would be worth more than those local to you. It also means that a single cache would be "worth" a different amount to every team.


 

Problem with this is that people aren't consistent with they way they rate caches. I've been on "3 star terrain" that barely qualified as 1.5 star terrain and vice-versa.

 

There are also regional variations. I'm sure a 3 star cache in Kansas isn't the same as a 3 star cache in Utah. They should be, but in practice they often aren't.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

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quote:
Originally posted by rjt:

I think Geocaching.com should create an official leader board. Come on to support this opinion if you agree.

 

__Life short, Hunt more.__


 

This question reminds me of those idiots who like to make a big deal in the log that they found a cache first. Who cares? Geocaching should be about fun in the outdoors and solving the puzzle, not about who has found the most.

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-----------

This question reminds me of those idiots who like to make a big deal in the log that they found a cache first. Who cares? Geocaching should be about fun in the outdoors and solving the puzzle, not about who has found the most.

------------

 

Oh really? And just how do the folks who find enjoyment in being the first to find a cache keep you from having "fun in the outdoors and solving the puzzle"? Can't you both be right? Can't you both enjoy your particular little piece of heaven?

 

After all, wine drinking "should be" about enjoying complex dry reds with foods that complement it's characteristics. But all those folks at the next table swilling white Zin with their steak don't keep me from enjoying wine the way it "should be" enjoyed. Should I demand that a restaurant not put whites on the wine list because I think they suck?

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Guess I'll throw my 2 cents worth in, and after taxes, that ain't worth much!!!

 

The insider site posted stats whether you chose to be included or not. So, why not include stats here. They will be on another menu item, so if you wish to look, go look,...if you don't, don't.

 

As far as people going out and grabbing a bunch of 1/1 caches,....those same caches are available to everyone, so what's the problem with that?

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I enjoyed and visited the stats sight often. Right before it went down GLM (the previous poster), passed me in the Virigina rankings, and I said to myself, "Good for him!" Now, I've been out a few times and wonder if I'm closing the gap on him or not, and I just can't tell. Not a big deal really, but it would be nice to know.

 

I know at least one Geocacher (team) who is definitely interested in stats. Rumor has it they even contacted the Guinness Book of World Records to see if they'd start an entry for Most Geocaches found.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.

 

-Ambrose Bierce, writer (1842-1914)

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Like Joe and GLM I like to see how the people in the area are doing and how is active and who isnt.

 

I saw PKPaul kinda fade away over the winter and early spring and now he has come back and started hunting like a machine icon_smile.gif

 

Joe and I were alway kinda going back and forth on where we were in the list and it was fun. Its not liek I hunted him down and slashed his tires to beat him. I did plan on hitting a fer cluster further south than he has been icon_smile.gif

 

Its a game as people like to say, and well games are ments to be won. The fun thing about Geocaching is that there really CANT be a winner becaue it will always change but its fun to see how your doing vs people that started caching the same time you did ( JoeC and Leperchans come to mind real quick )

 

I say offer stats as a lower rung level of membership. TO get stats access charge $15-$20 a year and then charge $35-40 for full access to get PQ's and Stats and really cool state maps is they ever get done.

 

Again if you dont like stats dont look, its kinda like radio if you dont liek whats on change the station. No one forces anyone to view stats.

 

Viva la STATS !

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Man, at this point even totals would be nice. I recall Jeremy asking for help with a javascript totalizer. I thought I saw a solution posted. Whatever happened to that?

 

Considering the cult-like popularity of Dan's site because of all of the functionality that was available there, why not have similar functionality here and secure the position of geocaching.com as the most popular geocaching website?

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Just to throw out my opinion:

 

1. Stats would be nice, just for fun.

2. It should be for premium members only, although premium members should be able to compare or see the stats for ALL Geocaching members, whether they are paying or not.

3. If the GC.com website handled it (it is THEIR database, after all), at least stats would ALWAYS be 99.9% up to date.

 

Yes, a system would have to be worked out. It seems to me that the people who suggested that the stat pages are flexible and selectable by the user (i.e. today I want to compare all users who have done, for example, 3+ & 3+ caches) have the best idea.

 

I also think it would pay for itself in new paying members. Still can't believe the price is only $30... Shhh... don't tell TPTB I'd be willing to pay more! icon_wink.gif

 

"Not all who wander are lost." - J.R.R. Tolkien

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quote:
Originally posted by IceCreamMan:

-----------

Oh really? And just how do the folks who find enjoyment in being the first to find a cache keep you from having "fun in the outdoors and solving the puzzle"? Can't you both be right? Can't you both enjoy your particular little piece of heaven?

 

After all, wine drinking "should be" about enjoying complex dry reds with foods that complement it's characteristics. But all those folks at the next table swilling white Zin with their steak don't keep me from enjoying wine the way it "should be" enjoyed. Should I demand that a restaurant not put whites on the wine list because I think they suck?


 

Obviously I struck a nerve. You can be the first to find all of the caches you want to. I really don't care. If that is your thing, good for you. But my objection comes from the bragging about it when you make a log entry on the website. The time/date of the entry clearly shows who was first. And if someone else makes an entry before you, you can always list the time/date you found it.

 

Your analogy about the types of wine with specific foods totally misses the point. I'm not objecting to you drinking white wine with your steak. I'm only objecting to your loud boorish bragging that I have to listen while I'm trying to have other conversations.

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

Why should it, because you said so?


 

What is your problem? Trying to keep stats on an unregulated activity with absolutely no formal rules and no unbiased judges/referees, like geocaching, would be impossible and worthless. As stated in other messages, some "players" would just pad their totals with easy finds. Furthermore, what's to keep someone from just logging on the website that they found a cache that they never found? How many cache hiders take their logs from their caches periodically and check them against the website logs? Probably few or none. So how are you going to monitor for cheaters? Again, any stats would be worthless.

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quote:
Originally posted by Old River Runner:

quote:
Originally posted by IceCreamMan:

-----------

Oh really? And just how do the folks who find enjoyment in being the first to find a cache keep you from having "fun in the outdoors and solving the puzzle"? Can't you both be right? Can't you both enjoy your particular little piece of heaven?

 

After all, wine drinking "should be" about enjoying complex dry reds with foods that complement it's characteristics. But all those folks at the next table swilling white Zin with their steak don't keep me from enjoying wine the way it "should be" enjoyed. Should I demand that a restaurant not put whites on the wine list because I think they suck?


 

Obviously I struck a nerve. You can be the first to find all of the caches you want to. I really don't care. If that is your thing, good for you. But my objection comes from the bragging about it when you make a log entry on the website. The time/date of the entry clearly shows who was first. And if someone else makes an entry before you, you can always list the time/date you found it.

 

Your analogy about the types of wine with specific foods totally misses the point. I'm not objecting to you drinking white wine with your steak. I'm only objecting to your loud boorish bragging that I have to listen while I'm trying to have other conversations.


 

Your analogy might bear some weight if the first finder stood near the cache shouting his anouncement to everyone who found it latter. Having a little fun with an entry in a log book seems quit harmless (and quiet). If you don't care, then don't care. Bring it back to the subject at hand... If you don't care about stats then don't care. Why argue that since a an apparent minority doesn't care about stats, they should be provided for no one?

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quote:
Originally posted by Old River Runner:

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

Why should it, because you said so?


 

What is your problem? Trying to keep stats on an unregulated activity with absolutely no formal rules and no unbiased judges/referees, like geocaching, would be impossible and worthless. As stated in other messages, some "players" would just pad their totals with easy finds. Furthermore, what's to keep someone from just logging on the website that they found a cache that they never found? How many cache hiders take their logs from their caches periodically and check them against the website logs? Probably few or none. So how are you going to monitor for cheaters? Again, any stats would be worthless.


 

What is YOUR problem? It's not like we're distributing cash prizes based on stats. It just adds another level of enjoyment for those who are interested in them. Personally, I followed the stats of people I was familiar with in my area. I knew they were finding caches because I read their entries in the log books. Can some one enter a bunch of finds without having found them? Sure. So what? If you don't care about stats because they are hopelessly inaccurate then you won't be looking anyway. If they add fun to the sport for you, you can give them the weight you believe they deserve. If you suspect a cheater and you care about it enough you can go check the log book for yourself.

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quote:
Originally posted by Old River Runner:

Furthermore, what's to keep someone from just logging on the website that they found a cache that they never found?


You mean like the benchmark you logged as a find, even though it wasn't there?

quote:
Originally posted by Old River Runner:

So how are you going to monitor for cheaters?


With stats, you would get a point in the cheater's column. Got a problem with that?

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quote:
Originally posted by Old River Runner:

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

Why should it, because you said so?


 

What is your problem?


 

He has a valid point. Not all caches are about hiking and fresh air (think urban micro). Not all caches are about solving puzzles (think 3 mile hike). There thousands of cachers and I'm quite sure that there are almost as many opinions about 'what it's about'.

 

quote:

Trying to keep stats on an unregulated activity with absolutely no formal rules and no unbiased judges/referees, like geocaching, would be impossible and worthless.


 

Perhaps they would be worthless to you - but they were very useful to me and a lot of other cachers.

 

quote:

As stated in other messages, some "players" would just pad their totals with easy finds. Furthermore, what's to keep someone from just logging on the website that they found a cache that they never found?


 

Of course it will happen - it has in the past. If some new cacher suddently has a lot of new finds it catches peoples eye - they want to know about the person and will do research. Typically they are easily spotted - cachers will and have went and checked logbooks.

 

quote:

How many cache hiders take their logs from their caches periodically and check them against the website logs? Probably few or none. So how are you going to monitor for cheaters? Again, any stats would be worthless.


 

I check mine. The majority of cachers I have met or exchanged emails with check their caches regularly (no, that doesnt mean weekly, or even monthly - but regularly enough to make sure it's there and it's not harming anything) - not just when there is a string of DNF's. Just because you don't or wouldn't check on a cache you've placed doesn't make this the norm.

 

Again - some people fail to see this - it's NOT necessarily about RANKING. There were dozens of uses for Dan's stat pages. Keeping track of rank may have seemed like the only thing it was about - but to quite a large number it was about a helluva lot more. Rank is interesting - but I'm quite sure that most people who followed that understood there were dozens of variable that made it not accurate (it was still fun).

 

southdeltan

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

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quote:
Originally posted by The Navigatorz:

Otherwise, why hide caches if no credit given?


 

Now there's a question. Just why do you suppose that people have been hiding caches up until now? icon_rolleyes.gif

 

That Quack Cacher:

Lone Duck

 

When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there.

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I read a little bit of this when the thread first started. Paused for thought. Then wondered why it is that some people want to make everything they do competitive. Thought some more. No answer was to come. So, ok, to those that want to turn geocaching into some sort of contest, you win the competition. I think I'll just keep on finding a few and hiding a few and enjoying the activity until I'm forced into the contest thing. At that time I'll find another non-competitive activity.

 

Byron

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quote:
Originally posted by Byron & Anne:

I read a little bit of this when the thread first started. Paused for thought. Then wondered why it is that some people want to make everything they do competitive. Thought some more. No answer was to come. So, ok, to those that want to turn geocaching into some sort of contest, you win the competition. I think I'll just keep on finding a few and hiding a few and enjoying the activity until I'm forced into the contest thing. At that time I'll find another non-competitive activity.

 

Byron


 

Did Dan's Stats page prevent you from 'finding a few, hiding a few, and enjoying the activity' ?

 

Somehow I doubt it did.

 

Keeping track of stats wouldn't hurt you or anybody who doesn't care in any way, shape, or form. The presence of a PGA doesn't prevent the common man from going out and hitting a few balls, does it?

 

If you don't care - you don't have to look.

 

Besides - even without the stats page, it is still competitive for lots of people. I know quite a few that feel that something is missing now and arent as motivated to get out and geocache. Some may not care - but in the end that leads to less new caches for those that don't care about numbers? (If numbers don't matter, why sign the log book? It doesn't matter that you found the cache, no reason to prove you did)

 

Nobody was forced to visit Dan's Stats page. Nobody would be forced to click on a link to an official geocaching.com stats page either. Nobody forces you to fill out a profile, or provide any information you don't want to. Nobody forces you to log finds online, or sign logbooks. If you don't want to look, don't.

 

And again, as I've stated SEVERAL times - it's not necessarily about numbers (aka competetion). Statistics are useful in lots of ways.

 

southdeltan

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

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quote:
Originally posted by southdeltan:

(If numbers don't matter, why sign the log book? It doesn't matter that you found the cache, no reason to prove you did)


 

Perhaps it is to give the cache owner something. As a cache owner, I like seeing the logbook with everyone's logs . . . not to count, not to compare, but to be entertained. I have saved the logbooks of archived caches for this very reason.

 

Fro.

 

________________________________________

Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

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quote:
Originally posted by Frolickin:

quote:
Originally posted by southdeltan:

(If numbers don't matter, why sign the log book? It doesn't matter that you found the cache, no reason to prove you did)


 

Perhaps it is to give the cache owner something. As a cache owner, I like seeing the logbook with everyone's logs . . . not to count, not to compare, but to be entertained. I have saved the logbooks of archived caches for this very reason.

 

Fro.

 

________________________________________

Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose


 

That's a valid point, but quite a few people keep saying that cache hiders never check their logbooks - so according to them you are in the minority icon_smile.gif

 

Hehehe icon_smile.gif

 

I still stand by my statements. If people don't care, they don't have to look - they obviously didn't look at Dan's page. A lot of people who did enjoyed it. It was useful in lots of ways besides checking rankings.

 

southdeltan

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

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quote:
Originally posted by Byron & Anne:

I think I'll just keep on finding a few and hiding a few and enjoying the activity until I'm forced into the contest thing. At that time I'll find another non-competitive activity.

 

Byron


 

Can anyone give me a senario in which anyone could be "forced into the contest thing"? I've never been forced into doing a bunch of riddles to find a cache. I've never been forced to try to find a cache first. I've never been forced to hike 5 miles. I do what I enjoy doing. That others may be enjoying the sport in a different way has no impact on how I enjoy it. However, right now a cool tool to help those who enjoy a little competition in their sport is missing. I'd like to see geocaching.com fill that void.

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I voted for the "I don't care who is the top hunter or hi[n]der" option.

 

What I would personally enjoy more than actual leaderboards is some combination of:

 

Detailed stats on (or linked from) a user's profile page;

A map of all a user's finds (probably linked from their profile page);

Detailed stats on (or linked from) a cache page.

 

That way, you make a user's stats readily available, but without adding the competitive aspect, for which I don't particularly care.

 

Of course, I can see that plenty of people would be into the competitive/leaderboard thing, which is why I didn't vote for "Don't create an official leader board".

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quote:
Originally posted by Moonbase:

I would say no! then you would have to police the results. And segregate teams from individuals. I dont think it should be a competition but just a good time.


 

Why would you have to police the results? They'd be driven by the geocching.com Database. Cache owners already 'police' their logs. If somebody logs bogus finds, somebody usually notices that fairly quickly.

 

The issue of Teams vs Solo cachers isn't that big a deal either - people should have enough sense to realize that in most cases 2 people can rack up more numbers than one person. Yet again - it's not necessarily about ranking.

 

I personally don't feel that ranking leads to competition - we already have competition without a ranking board. I'm not sure why that would make it less of a good time.

 

sd

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

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Well it certainly sounds like you got your mind made up. You want this Leader Boared and that is that. I did not mean to Get ya bent. As you pointed out (if it dont matter dont look.) But as to the team versus Solo where is the Fairnees there? some teams consist of dozens if not hundreds of players. But I think maybe you are just curious as to a number that resides at the top of the list. I would geuss it must be in the thousands. Go Go Gadget Geo-cachers. Game on, we are now for most, so far down the list.It would take days just to find your self. If it means that much to ya I hope ya get yer list. print it out, update it daily and hang it on the wall. More power to ya. But try and have fun too. dont give your self an ulser.

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quote:
Originally posted by Moonbase:

Well it certainly sounds like you got your mind made up. You want this Leader Boared and that is that. I did not mean to Get ya bent. As you pointed out (if it dont matter dont look.) But as to the team versus Solo where is the Fairnees there? some teams consist of dozens if not hundreds of players. But I think maybe you are just curious as to a number that resides at the top of the list. I would geuss it must be in the thousands. Go Go Gadget Geo-cachers. Game on, we are now for most, so far down the list.It would take days just to find your self. If it means that much to ya I hope ya get yer list. print it out, update it daily and hang it on the wall. More power to ya. But try and have fun too. dont give your self an ulser.


 

Apparantly you never saw Dan's Stats page at Insidecorner. A leaderboard existed and it went down due to the large amount of work involved. Geocaching.com already has a database - it likely would require little maintainence after the initial programming.

 

I doubt many of the 'teams' are more than families. That has been my experience. I've never heard of a Team consisting of 'dozens' of people - and Hundreds is just silly. There were only about a dozen people (out of thousands) who cache that had over 1000 finds. A team of 100's of cachers would decimate even the fabled (and controversial to some) CCCooperAgency (a family team).

 

Dan's stat page only showed the top 25 cachers nationwide. It didn't compare every cacher from every state and/or nation. It did compare cachers in 'foriegn' countries and in US States and I think in Provinces in Canada.

 

I'm not sure how people miss this: IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ABOUT RANKING. The information is useful in lots of ways - and Dan's stat page provided a lot more than just a ranking list.

 

quote:
But I think maybe you are just curious as to a number that resides at the top of the list. I would geuss it must be in the thousands.

 

In my state - there were less than 50 active cachers. Over 500 had found at least 1 cache in our state. There are only 350ish active caches in my state. The leader in our state had about 300.

 

Please don't preach to me about accuracy of totals based on 'teams', 'inactive cachers', 'people in cache deprieved areas'. I have to drive 90 miles (although it's about 60 to a cache, the route is closer to 90). I, and a lot of people who were interested are aware of all of these things.

 

I do enjoy caching - the only thing that 'gets me bent' is when people post stuff without the necessary background information. There was a stats page, it didn't breed competition - american culture and/or human nature handles that. The stats page shows a lot of other things. A lot of those things were tied into the ranking system.

 

I lot of people had FUN by keeping up with it. I don't necessarily mean their ranking either.

 

sd

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

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O- come On little buddie. it sounds like you all ready got all the stats you need. This would indeed be a time consuming endever, that you would be willing to pay for. By becomeing a premium member. But have not done so as of this posting. And you would be willing to pay if they do something (so labor intensive that suits ya) before you Join the club?

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quote:
Originally posted by Moonbase:

O- come On little buddie. it sounds like you all ready got all the stats you need. This would indeed be a time consuming endever, that you would be willing to pay for. By becomeing a premium member. But have not done so as of this posting. And you would be willing to pay if they do something (so labor intensive that suits ya) before you Join the club?


 

How does it sound like I get all the stats I need? The stats site is DOWN permanantly. This is based on my memory from several weeks ago.

 

You know - I do totally appreciate you trying to belittle me because I do not pay for access to this site. If you will do some research you will find that there was no intent to make 'classes' of users. The main features of this website have always been free and the Admin claim they will always be free. Pocket queries are not something that interest me. If you'll read my profile - you'll see that I have in fact purchased a travel-bug (and other merchandise). Premium membership is not the only way to support this site.

 

I would indeed pay for stats. It is not nearly as labor intensive as you imply.

 

I know a LOT of people who would join just for the stats. This website is a business, seems like a way to make money to me.

 

If you'll read this thread, especially the first post with the quote from Jeremy, you'll see that he is already considering some sort of statatics tracking system.

 

I'm not holding my breath, the site has been promising new maps since February when I joined.

 

I would appreciate this if this doesn't develop into a personal flame war. If you're not interested in stats, you don't have to look. I'm not sure why the fact that I and others enjoy them bother you - they don't affect you in any way.

 

southdeltan

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

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I give up you win What-ever. I did not intent to start (Flame war) Just my opinion. But just maybe it will cost more for this sevice, that some of the rest of us do not care about.But there you have that money thing again that you are not willing to pay untill you get your way??

No belittling hear man just A thought.Why don't we just vote for you to be the leader and call it a day. icon_biggrin.gif Calm down no fight hear. I never intended to get you so riled. The competition in you. Rules you skywalker. I am now on you side I now want to know just who is the best in the world!! Just Gota know.

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quote:
Originally posted by rjt:

All the geography info belongs to all people, not to government;

All the data in Geocaching.com belongs to all users, not to administers.


 

You need to read the 'Terms of Service' (and the thread about that subject). That's not entirely true. The 'knowledge of geography' may belong to the people - but if a company takes the time to compile it (even if they use volunteers to gather info) then they are not likely to give their hard work away. Jeremy, et al, have spent a lot of time on this website - it is a business andit would be foolish to provide the info to another website who would compete with them.

 

Of course, that's also completely off topic to this thread.

 

BACK TO THE TOPIC:

 

The data for leaderboard and other things are already here, just totally unorganized. I would pay to have access to the data if it was compiled in a way that was easier to use.

 

It's not about getting 'my way' it's about paying for what I consider valuable. It's also about filling a void created by the loss of Dan's stats page. From what I've heard several states are scrambling to find ways to track their stats already - Jeremy said he would consider providing the data and individuals over groups (such as states) could handle scoring as they see fit ... or something like that.

 

southdeltan

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

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An official stats page.

 

I don't think it would work, because there are a lot of cheaters out there. This will only bring out more of them. I like keeping a tally of mine, just for my sake, but if there was a leader board, you would eventually get some clown that would actually want you to believe he could find 30 or 40 caches a weekend, every weekend, for a year. Not that it couldn't be done but, it would be hard to believe; unless he didn't have a real job, or life to go with it.

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quote:
Originally posted by Desert J-Dog:

An official stats page.

 

I don't think it would work, because there are a lot of cheaters out there. This will only bring out more of them. I like keeping a tally of mine, just for my sake, but if there was a leader board, you would eventually get some clown that would actually want you to believe he could find 30 or 40 caches a weekend, every weekend, for a year. Not that it couldn't be done but, it would be hard to believe; unless he didn't have a real job, or life to go with it.


 

There was an official UNofficial page for years. Did some people cheat? Yes. Most were spotted very quickly. People can still 'cheat' now by logging bogus finds. With or without a stats page it's still up to the owner to keep track.

 

There are quite a few people who routinelly find 30 or 40 caches a weekend. These people do have jobs. If you live in an area with enough caches this is easy enough to do. If the cache density supported it - I'm sure I could do 40 over a weekend (friday afternoon - sunday) easily.

 

There are already 'cheaters' out there - I think a leaderboard would help police this some. It'd make it easier to view certain things.

 

sd

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

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