Bottle preforms - small or micros?

[+L0ne.R]

Please consider those of us who who filter out micros. Please use the volumes set out by the old guidelines:

 

* Micro (35 mm film canister or smaller – less than approximately 3 ounces or .1 litres -- typically containing only a logbook).

* Small (Sandwich-sized Tupperware-style container or similar -- less than approximately 1 quart or litre -- holds trade items as well as a logbook)

[+BaylorGrad]

Large micro in my opinion. The inside area is not conducive to most swag. Sure I can cram a dime in it, but I can do that to a film can as well. I have never seen a preform listed as a small down here (Texas/Louisiana).

 

There's a trail in a park in the West Houston area that I did back in December... About 22-25 preforms, all listed as smalls. In fact, I've never seen them listed as micro in Texas/Louisiana!

[+Corp Of Discovery]

Large micro in my opinion. The inside area is not conducive to most swag. Sure I can cram a dime in it, but I can do that to a film can as well. I have never seen a preform listed as a small down here (Texas/Louisiana).

 

There's a trail in a park in the West Houston area that I did back in December... About 22-25 preforms, all listed as smalls. In fact, I've never seen them listed as micro in Texas/Louisiana!

 

I have.

[+TeamSeekAndWeShallFind]

When it works for certain cachers in their favor they say things like, "The game is always changing...." blah-blah-blah but they refuse to say that same thing when it comes to certain things like container size ratings.

 

Back in the day, 10 years ago, when the only cache containers were Rubbermaid sandwich boxes, ammo cans and( the oldest smallest container ), film canisters, it might have been acceptable to rate a preform a small. Not anymore !

 

Guess what ?? The game IS always changing and just like anything else, it has to keep up with the changes wether the "old timers," like it or not ! Welcome to Geocaching, present day !

 

Not only did the arrival of the Bison squash all the old size ratings,the latest arrival of the Nano and the Super Nano have rendered rating preforms, film canisters, pill bottles etc... as micros....RIDICULOUS.

 

Preforms are small and I believe my photo is pretty good proof of that. I don't care about all that liter mumbo-jumbo. Geocachers don't trade or swap liquids do they ? In my photo you'll see a preform containing 42 skull beads, 1 miniature race car from a McDonald's Happy Meal and a pair of Batman earrings. Next to the preform stands a Nano. That little beauty holds a sliver of paper.

 

 

I have preforms, Bisons and Nanos hidden in the deep woods. Which container do you think you have the best chances of finding ? I bet it's the preform right ? Why ? BECAUSE IT'S THE LARGEST ? and hunting a preform in the deep woods isn't nearly as scary or as intimidating as hunting a Bison or a Nano in the deep woods is it ? I rest.

Edited April 6, 2011 by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind

[Dj Storm]

According to the guidelines I follow when placing caches, a typical small is "the size of a sandwich box". If I cannot fit a geocoin in the container, it's a micro.

[GOF and Bacall]

When it works for certain cachers in their favor they say things like, "The game is always changing...." blah-blah-blah but they refuse to say that same thing when it comes to certain things like container size ratings.

 

Back in the day, 10 years ago, when the only cache containers were Rubbermaid sandwich boxes, ammo cans and( the oldest smallest container ), film canisters, it might have been acceptable to rate a preform a small. Not anymore !

 

Guess what ?? The game IS always changing and just like anything else, it has to keep up with the changes wether the "old timers," like it or not ! Welcome to Geocaching, present day !

 

Not only did the arrival of the Bison squash all the old size ratings,the latest arrival of the Nano and the Super Nano have rendered rating preforms, film canisters, pill bottles etc... as micros....RIDICULOUS.

 

Preforms are small and I believe my photo is pretty good proof of that. I don't care about all that liter mumbo-jumbo. Geocachers don't trade or swap liquids do they ? In my photo you'll see a preform containing 42 skull beads, 1 miniature race car from a McDonald's Happy Meal and a pair of Batman earrings. Next to the preform stands a Nano. That little beauty holds a sliver of paper.

 

 

I have preforms, Bisons and Nanos hidden in the deep woods. Which container do you think you have the best chances of finding ? I bet it's the preform right ? Why ? BECAUSE IT'S THE LARGEST ? and hunting a preform in the deep woods isn't nearly as scary or as intimidating as hunting a Bison or a Nano in the deep woods is it ? I rest.

 

Many things have changed. But the sizes are still the same. Try putting a sandwich in that preform. The only thing you have there is an argument for adding the size "nano".

[+TeamSeekAndWeShallFind]

How are the sizes still the same and when did container size ratings depend on wether or not you can fit a TB or Geocoin inside AND what is with the food thing and being able to stuff a corned beef sandwich inside ?

 

I'm sorry. I'm very analytical and I tend to pick things down to the bone. Most folks don't analyze things like I do, therefore they don't understand where I'm coming from or my point of view. That's ok.

 

All this talk about being able to fit TB's and Geocoins inside containers should determine their size rating ? In MY experience, TB's and Geocoins are one of the most disrespected aspects of the game ! 90% of TB's and Geocoins are not where they're supposed to be !

 

We don't even look at cache inventory anymore ! We used to. Not anymore. If you find a TB or Geocoin in a cache and that's where it's actually supposed to be ( in other words, listed in said cache's inventory ), that's rare !

 

So PLEASE don't USE TB's and Geocoins as a basis for cache size ratings.

 

There are more MIA TB's and Geocoins than there are ones that "make it !"

 

It's human nature to hate what you're not good at or what scares you ! If you hate micros, real micros like Bisons, Nanos, SuperNanos and they scare you because you're not good at finding them, say so but PLEASE stop fooling yourself into believing that preforms are micros !

[GOF and Bacall]

How are the sizes still the same and when did container size ratings depend on wether or not you can fit a TB or Geocoin inside AND what is with the food thing and being able to stuff a corned beef sandwich inside ?

 

I'm sorry. I'm very analytical and I tend to pick things down to the bone. Most folks don't analyze things like I do, therefore they don't understand where I'm coming from or my point of view. That's ok.

 

All this talk about being able to fit TB's and Geocoins inside containers should determine their size rating ? In MY experience, TB's and Geocoins are one of the most disrespected aspects of the game ! 90% of TB's and Geocoins are not where they're supposed to be !

 

We don't even look at cache inventory anymore ! We used to. Not anymore. If you find a TB or Geocoin in a cache and that's where it's actually supposed to be ( in other words, listed in said cache's inventory ), that's rare !

 

So PLEASE don't USE TB's and Geocoins as a basis for cache size ratings.

 

There are more MIA TB's and Geocoins than there are ones that "make it !"

 

It's human nature to hate what you're not good at or what scares you ! If you hate micros, real micros like Bisons, Nanos, SuperNanos and they scare you because you're not good at finding them, say so but PLEASE stop fooling yourself into believing that preforms are micros !

 

 

The description for a small says "Holds only a small logbook and small items." It used to say about the size of a sandwich container. That is why these have been used to describe the size small.

 

The official description for the size "micro" is "e.g. 35mm film canister or smaller". So film cans are micros. No possible argument for any other position.

 

As the normal sized preform used in geocaching is close to the volume of a film can I say it is a micro.

 

Your insistence that because some people hide extremely small containers that somehow changes things is unfounded. There is no change in the definitions of the sizes anywhere but in your posts. The question at hand is where in those definitions do preforms fit.

[+hzoi]

PLEASE stop fooling yourself into believing that preforms are micros !

 

Please stop fooling yourself into believing that we're all talking about the same size container when we're talking about "preforms."

 

There are many different sizes of PET bottles, so many different sizes of preforms.

 

 

The one pictured in your earlier post looks more like the one on the right. That's about twice the size of the ones on the left. You want to call that a small, knock yourself out.

 

I use preforms more like the ones on the left, and I cut my logs into strips to fit. No room for anything except the log, or perhaps 1 euro cent (about half the diameter of edit: smaller than a US penny). In fact, depending on how wide the mouth is on the preforms you use, I could probably fit one of mine in one of yours. Mine's a micro.

Edited April 6, 2011 by hzoi

[+ZSandmann]

TSAWSF: I respect your opinion but Groundspeak has issued no change to the sizes since they were introduced. Maybe Nano should be a size, that's not the point of this discussion. What I know is that a preform is not a small as it holds no "normal" swag. Yes it can hold some beads, and I even mentioned a dime in my previous post, but what your picture does not include is a log or a pen, something I try to always include in my cache sif possible. Start wrapping 4 or 5 sheets of log paper in that tube and the volume goes away really quick.

 

Also, what is a super nano? I must have missed those somewhere along the line.

[+L0ne.R]

TSAWSF: I respect your opinion but Groundspeak has issued no change to the sizes since they were introduced. Maybe Nano should be a size, that's not the point of this discussion. What I know is that a preform is not a small as it holds no "normal" swag. Yes it can hold some beads, and I even mentioned a dime in my previous post, but what your picture does not include is a log or a pen, something I try to always include in my cache sif possible. Start wrapping 4 or 5 sheets of log paper in that tube and the volume goes away really quick.

 

Agree. If you can only fit a couple of tiny beads in after you insert a logsheet and small pencil it's a micro. I wish Groundspeak would tighten up the guidelines to make it very clear, i.e. not open to interpretation. The old guidelines with volumes were pretty good:

 

* Micro (35 mm film canister or smaller – less than approximately 3 ounces or .1 litres -- typically containing only a logbook).

* Small (Sandwich-sized Tupperware-style container or similar -- less than approximately 1 quart or litre -- holds trade items as well as a logbook)

 

The addition of "capable of holding at least one small travelbug (1"x2") as well as a logbook" to the Small definition, would be a good visual representation to use. Almost everyone has seen a travelbug tag or a military dog tag so they can more easily visualize the size. This would mean that the neck of the jar (if for instance a spice jar, aspirin jar or preform is being used) would need to be at least 1" wide before you should post it as a small.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Lone R

[+niraD]

How are the sizes still the same and when did container size ratings depend on wether or not you can fit a TB or Geocoin inside AND what is with the food thing and being able to stuff a corned beef sandwich inside ?

As others have pointed out, most of us are familiar with the previous versions of the size descriptions, where a small cache was defined as "Sandwich-sized Tupperware-style container or similar -- less than approximately 1 quart or litre -- holds trade items as well as a logbook". A recent site update removed a lot of the detail on all of the size descriptions. Some of us have suggested that Groundspeak restore the previous descriptions:

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75863-report-a-problem/suggestions/1572833-size-descriptions-missing

 

Also, Groundspeak is planning to add a new "nano" size in a couple months. That should help resolve some of the desire to list micro size containers as small, just because they're so much bigger than blinkers and other nano-caches.

 

I'm sorry. I'm very analytical and I tend to pick things down to the bone.

You might enjoy gimmick car rallyes. The last I heard, there are a couple clubs in the Chicago area that still organize them:

http://www.brandxrallyeteam.com/

http://wheelsrallyeteam.com/

[+Maingray]

Micro!

 

My personal rule of thumb over the last few years is that a small should be able to hold a "TB tag plus some small tracked item".

[+Maingray]

Geocachers don't trade or swap liquids do they ?

 

I know a few that are happy to do so.

[+JirafaBo]

Call it what you want! It's obviously on the line. I know my gatorade preforms are about 3 times as thick as that thin thing and I definitely list them as small. I look forward to the nano classification, I think that will help.

Edited April 7, 2011 by JirafaBo

[+StarBrand]

Call it what you want! It's obviously on the line. ....

No its not. Clearly a micro.

[+JirafaBo]

Call it what you want! It's obviously on the line. ....

No its not. Clearly a micro.

 

From the two pages of thread here, doesn't seem like it's so clear at all, although the majority do seem to go with Micro. Also, if it were so clear, they wouldn't be using words like "approximately." And that's the old rules that are being quoted. No longer listed that way, so again, not so clear.

 

Some people see the size and think "how big does it look" and others think "how much liquid or items will it hold." It's all a matter of perception. When micro specifically says 35mm can or smaller, many will look at the preform and instantly conclude that it's 'bigger' than a 35mm canister, so it must be a small. This is often the case when referring to size, image wins. Volume is a little trickier to perceive. I think both sides of the argument have good points. Maybe Groundspeak could make the blowhards happier if they had a page with a bunch of pictures of different containers and labeled them. Or maybe they could add useless '.5s' and really screw things up!

[+JirafaBo]

There are many different sizes of PET bottles, so many different sizes of preforms.

 

 

Man, my preforms are bigger than all of these! I can see that some of these are easily micros. Pretty cool, I was looking for a picture of mine but couldn't find any. As long as nobody is listing them as "regular" i think everyone will be alright.

[+hzoi]

Call it what you want! It's obviously on the line. I know my gatorade preforms are about 3 times as thick as that thin thing and I definitely list them as small. I look forward to the nano classification, I think that will help.

 

Hmm. Where does one get Gatorade preforms? That would make a nice cache container. I was just looking at an OJ container and wondering about that as well, but all I normally see are the smaller soda bottle ones.

[+JirafaBo]

Call it what you want! It's obviously on the line. I know my gatorade preforms are about 3 times as thick as that thin thing and I definitely list them as small. I look forward to the nano classification, I think that will help.

 

Hmm. Where does one get Gatorade preforms? That would make a nice cache container. I was just looking at an OJ container and wondering about that as well, but all I normally see are the smaller soda bottle ones.

 

I'm lucky enough to have a friend that works at a plastic bottle factory, and that's one of their main bottles. When I first started geocaching, he gave me a few. The plastic is thicker, and they have the big mouth, so the preform is nice and solid and enough room for a coin and some smaller items, including a log.

[+StarBrand]

Call it what you want! It's obviously on the line. ....

No its not. Clearly a micro.

 

From the two pages of thread here, doesn't seem like it's so clear at all, although the majority do seem to go with Micro. Also, if it were so clear, they wouldn't be using words like "approximately." And that's the old rules that are being quoted. No longer listed that way, so again, not so clear.

 

Some people see the size and think "how big does it look" and others think "how much liquid or items will it hold." It's all a matter of perception. When micro specifically says 35mm can or smaller, many will look at the preform and instantly conclude that it's 'bigger' than a 35mm canister, so it must be a small. This is often the case when referring to size, image wins. Volume is a little trickier to perceive. I think both sides of the argument have good points. Maybe Groundspeak could make the blowhards happier if they had a page with a bunch of pictures of different containers and labeled them. Or maybe they could add useless '.5s' and really screw things up!

 

Please note the rather stark difference between cachers from years ago and accounts less than 2 years old in responding to this thread. I don't think cache sizes have somehow 'shifted' because they poorly worded the new guidelines.

 

Clearly - micro.

Edited April 8, 2011 by StarBrand

[+TeamSeekAndWeShallFind]

TSAWSF: I respect your opinion but Groundspeak has issued no change to the sizes since they were introduced. Maybe Nano should be a size, that's not the point of this discussion. What I know is that a preform is not a small as it holds no "normal" swag. Yes it can hold some beads, and I even mentioned a dime in my previous post, but what your picture does not include is a log or a pen, something I try to always include in my cache sif possible. Start wrapping 4 or 5 sheets of log paper in that tube and the volume goes away really quick.

 

Also, what is a super nano? I must have missed those somewhere along the line.

First,THANK YOU for saying you respect our opinion ! That's not said too often. A logsheet could easily be slipped into my preform. I only need one sheet and as far as the pen argument goes, don't even get me started ! I don't know about the rest of you but next to my iPhone, my pen is THE SECOND thing I make sure I have when I leave the house to go caching. I have my Inka...that's right..."the first pen designed especially for the adventurer," the Special Edition Titanium,indestructable, $25.95, strapped around my neck hanging from my "Get Outta My Face," lanyard. It writes on wet and frozen paper, upside down and at the highest altitudes. That's how important a pen is to me ! I spent 30 bucks on it !!

 

No real self-respecting Geocacher would EVER leave home without a pen and then expect to find one in every cache. If you don't bring a pen and there isn't a pen in my cache and you claim a find on my cache but say you couldn't sign the log because you didn't have a pen and there wasn't a pen in the cache.....sorry....you're looking at a log deletion.

 

Super Nanos ? You haven't seen these ? Where do you live ?

[+Don_J]

If you don't bring a pen and there isn't a pen in my cache and you claim a find on my cache but say you couldn't sign the log because you didn't have a pen and there wasn't a pen in the cache.....sorry....you're looking at a log deletion.

 

Darn it. The giant "log deletion" thread just died hours ago. Here we go again.

 

Super Nanos ? You haven't seen these ? Where do you live ?

 

I live in California. The nanos I typically see are 3/8" in diameter and 3/8" tall. I have seen a few that were 1/4" tall. Is this what you are referring to? Are they getting smaller than that? If they get so tiny that my poor eyes can't even focus and write on the itsy bitsy log, you make have to accept my Jethro Bodine style mark.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Don_J

[+TeamSeekAndWeShallFind]

Again, with the introduction of Bisons, Nanos and now SuperNanos, preforms aren't micros anymore. Pill bottles aren't micros. Film containers aren't micros. What is it going to take ?

[+Don_J]

Again, with the introduction of Bisons, Nanos and now SuperNanos, preforms aren't micros anymore. Pill bottles aren't micros. Film containers aren't micros. What is it going to take ?

 

No, No, No,

Under the current descriptions, you could cut a dried pee in half, figure out a way to add a log, and it would still be a micro. GS has stated that they will add a "nano" size, but until they do, just because your and others perception of size has shifted, does not mean that you are correct.

 

Currently, there is no "nano" size. Everything smaller than a 35mm film can is a micro. As far as preforms, just because it is slim and long does not make it bigger.

 

The fact that caches have become smaller and smaller does not mean that the sizes have shifted. A rusty Altoids tin does not suddenly become a small, just because some want to compare it to a button micro.

 

I did about ten caches out of a larger new series today, that had a lot of caches listed as size unknown. I was about 60 miles from home so I don't know if it is normal for the area, but they were the only caches, out of 66 we visited that were listed this way. They were not nanos, but they were about one 1/3 the size of a film can. In other words, they were micros.

 

It seems that the very new geocaching community has already mentally shifted the size definitions. I can't wait for the new nano size so that the rest of us can hopefully return to normal.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Don_J

[GOF and Bacall]

Again, with the introduction of Bisons, Nanos and now SuperNanos, preforms aren't micros anymore. Pill bottles aren't micros. Film containers aren't micros. What is it going to take ?

 

It's gonna take a change in the descriptions on this page.

 

Just because you say so doesn't mean anything.

[+slukster]

I had posed the question about what size my beach safe containers were considered a while ago and I believe the consensus was that they were considered micro. I measured the volume of the container and it ended up being slightly less than 3 ounces. I have listed the beach safes as small but put a picture of the container in the cache description to show those who prefer larger containers that it might not fit their description of a small and they can decide if it is something they want to seek.

 

Now the preform containers I have been using are larger than the beach safes (almost 6in long, 1in in diameter) and I have also been listing them as smalls. I recognize that many don't agree with my classification but I don't do it to piss people off. It just seems that the containers I consider micros and use as micros seem so much smaller that these larger containers. And since it meets the GC definition of a small (logbook and small items) I feel it is justified.

 

Edited April 10, 2011 by slukster

[+StarBrand]

Again, with the introduction of Bisons, Nanos and now SuperNanos, preforms aren't micros anymore. Pill bottles aren't micros. Film containers aren't micros. What is it going to take ?

I really don't believe for a second that the sizes have shifted at all.

 

What is so hard to understand about the "...and smaller" part of a micro definition that has always existed?

[Pup Patrol]

Again, with the introduction of Bisons, Nanos and now SuperNanos, preforms aren't micros anymore. Pill bottles aren't micros. Film containers aren't micros. What is it going to take ?

 

Knowledge Books, 6.2. Containers Explained

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=75

 

Sizes

1. micro: e.g. 35mm film canister or smaller

2. small: Holds only a small logbook and small items.

3. regular: e.g. ammo box

4. large: e.g. 5-gallon bucket (about 20 liters)

5. other: See the cache description.

 

Pill Bottles

A plastic pill bottle has some good qualities for a micro cache (albeit a large one): the plastic tends to be very tough and the lid usually fits well. However, water gets in quite easily.

 

So, what you want to see is Groundspeak to change their stance on cache sizes? Wouldn't that be a feedback topic?

Edited April 11, 2011 by Pup Patrol

[+ZSandmann]

I had posed the question about what size my beach safe containers were considered a while ago and I believe the consensus was that they were considered micro. I measured the volume of the container and it ended up being slightly less than 3 ounces. I have listed the beach safes as small but put a picture of the container in the cache description to show those who prefer larger containers that it might not fit their description of a small and they can decide if it is something they want to seek.

 

Now the preform containers I have been using are larger than the beach safes (almost 6in long, 1in in diameter) and I have also been listing them as smalls. I recognize that many don't agree with my classification but I don't do it to piss people off. It just seems that the containers I consider micros and use as micros seem so much smaller that these larger containers. And since it meets the GC definition of a small (logbook and small items) I feel it is justified.

 

 

Yes I would consider the beach safe a micro although I have seen them both ways and they do vary in size somewhat between makers.

 

That preform could very well be a small, but that is not the typical preform I see 99% of the time.

[+Chrysalides]

If that clear plastic container came from DealExtreme, it's not a preform. I bought one to check it out, and it has much thinner walls and feels flimsy compared to soda bottle preforms. It does have larger capacity though.

[+JirafaBo]

Again, with the introduction of Bisons, Nanos and now SuperNanos, preforms aren't micros anymore. Pill bottles aren't micros. Film containers aren't micros. What is it going to take ?

 

It's gonna take a change in the descriptions on this page.

 

Just because you say so doesn't mean anything.

 

Sweet so it's settled! By simple logic, anything larger than a 35mm canister is considered small. That makes it easy!

 

"Sizes

 

micro: e.g. 35mm film canister or smaller

small: Holds only a small logbook and small items.

regular: e.g. ammo box

large: e.g. 5-gallon bucket (about 20 liters)

other: See the cache description."

Edited April 12, 2011 by JirafaBo

[+Thrak]

Clearly a micro - no doubt in my mind at all.

 

Small should be something closer to a sandwich sized container. I think you could line up 4 or more preforms in what I call a small.

 

On the other hand - I see where a lot of newer cachers are calling .50 cal ammo boxes 'Large' caches these days. Sigh....

 

I fall into exactly the same camp as StarBrand. Preforms are MICRO caches. 50 Cal Ammo Cans are REGULAR caches - not large.

[+JirafaBo]

Clearly a micro - no doubt in my mind at all.

 

Small should be something closer to a sandwich sized container. I think you could line up 4 or more preforms in what I call a small.

 

On the other hand - I see where a lot of newer cachers are calling .50 cal ammo boxes 'Large' caches these days. Sigh....

 

I fall into exactly the same camp as StarBrand. Preforms are MICRO caches. 50 Cal Ammo Cans are REGULAR caches - not large.

 

Well, at least you're following some of the guidelines!

[+Chrysalides]

Well, at least you're following some of the guidelines!

It'll be pretty difficult to violate all of the guidelines...

[+briansnat]

Again, with the introduction of Bisons, Nanos and now SuperNanos, preforms aren't micros anymore. Pill bottles aren't micros. Film containers aren't micros. What is it going to take ?

 

Sorry but the introduction of smaller containers did not change the definition of the other sizes. Pill bottles, film canisters and Altoids tins were micros, are micros and will remain micros.

[+dfx]

FWIW, I've never heard of supernanos either. Shouldn't they be called picos?

[+Chrysalides]

FWIW, I've never heard of supernanos either. Shouldn't they be called picos?

Nah. It's a nano that's faster than a speeding satellite, stronger than an ammo box, able to leap tall lamp posts in a single bound.

[+dfx]

... able to leap tall lamp posts in a single bound.

So it's a moving cache? Those are not allowed!!!!!111111oneone

[+hzoi]

Well, at least you're following some of the guidelines!

It'll be pretty difficult to violate all of the guidelines...

 

[+ZSandmann]

Well, at least you're following some of the guidelines!

It'll be pretty difficult to violate all of the guidelines...

 

I so almost posted that

 

I'd like to see a picture of a "supernano." I suspect it is a regular nano with a superiority complex.

[+DanOCan]

It seems to me a lot of the confusion comes because Groundspeak chooses to include the part about how Small containers can handle small items instead of just leaving it to a size/volume distinction.

 

The preform I found earlier this week (They don't seem to be very common in our area.) was around six inches long and not much narrower (on the outside) than a film canister. It was listed as a Micro, although I think (again, from a strict volume perspective) it could easily have been considered a Small.

 

If I put it on a table next to a film can and asked 100 random people "Which of these is larger?" I would bet I'd get 90%+ of the people saying the preform is bigger. To me "bigger than film canister = Small" and if Groundspeak didn't include tha part about "small items" it wouldn't even be much of a debate.

 

I'll also remind everyone this was referring to the preform I found -- as shown in the above posts, not all preforms are the same size. From the photos I have seen I would say there are some preforms which are properly labeled as Micros and some that are properly labeled as Small.

 

I guess that means my final answer is "It depends."

[+ZSandmann]

Yes but a preform is smaller than a small tupperware

 

I suggest we add the size Large-ish Small Micro!

[+L0ne.R]

It seems to me a lot of the confusion comes because Groundspeak chooses to include the part about how Small containers can handle small items instead of just leaving it to a size/volume distinction.

 

Personally I'd like the distinction to be about swag.

 

Can it hold swag and approximately how much? I think the travelbug is a good measurement since most people have seen at least one travelbug. That way the dimensions of a 'small' would need to accommodate at least one small travelbug. The neck of the container (example an aspirin jar) would need to be more then 1" wide and the body of the container needs to be more then 2" long and at least 1" wide to fit a dog tag with a small item attached to it. Anything smaller is a micro, even if that micro could contain a logsheet and a couple of small beads.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Lone R

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

I'd like to see a picture of a "supernano." I suspect it is a regular nano with a superiority complex.

 

I never heard the term "supernano" before reading this thread, but here's what my imagination conjures up:

 

[+A & J Tooling]

So, just to clarify I am about to place one that is a full sized shipping container. You knowe the ones they load on trains and trucks? What would that size be listed under?

[+roziecakes]

Clearly a micro - no doubt in my mind at all.

 

Small should be something closer to a sandwich sized container. I think you could line up 4 or more preforms in what I call a small.

 

On the other hand - I see where a lot of newer cachers are calling .50 cal ammo boxes 'Large' caches these days. Sigh....

 

I fall into exactly the same camp as StarBrand. Preforms are MICRO caches. 50 Cal Ammo Cans are REGULAR caches - not large.

 

+1 That's the way I roll too. Just call them a micro, what's the problem? They're great as micro containers. I usually don't get on the "back in the day" bandwagon, but I have noticed that smalls often get rated as regulars and micros often get rated as smalls, and that has become a trend since I started caching. Not that it bothers me really, I've just noticed it, so I try in earnest to rate my hides appropriately.

[+OHail]

If the container will not hold a TB dog tag which has an attachment, I call it a micro.

[+roziecakes]

If the container will not hold a TB dog tag which has an attachment, I call it a micro.

 

Nice, I like that

[GOF and Bacall]

 

I'd like to see a picture of a "supernano." I suspect it is a regular nano with a superiority complex.

 

I never heard the term "supernano" before reading this thread, but here's what my imagination conjures up:

 

 

You need to put a cape on that for it to be a "super" nano.

Edited April 14, 2011 by GOF and Bacall