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Cache Saboteurs


90%Angel

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Ok....there seems to be a disturbing trend around here.. there is a local cacher with several very creative caches out around the area that continually go MIA. Some of them possibly could be muggled, however.. THIS is the disturbing part.. when Caches go missing that would be very unlikely to be found by muggles, it 'appears' as though it is an 'inside job' (Inside the Geo-caching community that is) Since I have really enjoyed finding some of these genuinely unique caches, I had looked forward to finding more..but, when I went out to search for a couple of them, they are apparently MIA. I messaged the CO to find out if the caches were still there and got a response that 'several of the CO's caches are definetly missing.

Personally I find that very sad. More importantly I think that if there are indeed Cachers that are determined to Sabotage (•Sabotage is a deliberate action aimed at weakening another entity through subversion, obstruction, disruption, or destruction)other Cachers Caches there should be some intervention from Groundspeak to curtail this pathetic behaviour. Has anyone else noticed this kind of trend? If so, was anything done to help prevent it from continuing?

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I had a cache of mine sabatoged by a geocacher. I reported it to contact@geocaching.com . Groundspeak then intervened and handled the situation nearly exactly how I asked them to.

 

The hard part is trying to prove who is doing the sabatoging so that there can be intervention. In my situation, I couldn't prove who it was, but it was kinda obvious who the guilty party was. Obvious enough at least that I had GS on my side from the get go.

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Ok....there seems to be a disturbing trend around here.. there is a local cacher with several very creative caches out around the area that continually go MIA. Some of them possibly could be muggled, however.. THIS is the disturbing part.. when Caches go missing that would be very unlikely to be found by muggles, it 'appears' as though it is an 'inside job' (Inside the Geo-caching community that is) Since I have really enjoyed finding some of these genuinely unique caches, I had looked forward to finding more..but, when I went out to search for a couple of them, they are apparently MIA. I messaged the CO to find out if the caches were still there and got a response that 'several of the CO's caches are definetly missing.

Personally I find that very sad. More importantly I think that if there are indeed Cachers that are determined to Sabotage (•Sabotage is a deliberate action aimed at weakening another entity through subversion, obstruction, disruption, or destruction)other Cachers Caches there should be some intervention from Groundspeak to curtail this pathetic behaviour. Has anyone else noticed this kind of trend? If so, was anything done to help prevent it from continuing?

 

Although i agree with you whole-heartedly, I must play the devils advocate, or in this case the muggle's advocate.

 

You never know where a muggle is going to be. I've gone for a 3 hour walk in the woods through a deep bushwhack only to find a couch and what clearly looks like a hangout place. Never underestimate the power of a muggle :laughing:

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I hear you, and certainly understand.. but when some of the caches are puzzles and can be rather challenging to find the final....well it does appear to be very suspicious~

 

Ok....there seems to be a disturbing trend around here.. there is a local cacher with several very creative caches out around the area that continually go MIA. Some of them possibly could be muggled, however.. THIS is the disturbing part.. when Caches go missing that would be very unlikely to be found by muggles, it 'appears' as though it is an 'inside job' (Inside the Geo-caching community that is) Since I have really enjoyed finding some of these genuinely unique caches, I had looked forward to finding more..but, when I went out to search for a couple of them, they are apparently MIA. I messaged the CO to find out if the caches were still there and got a response that 'several of the CO's caches are definetly missing.

Personally I find that very sad. More importantly I think that if there are indeed Cachers that are determined to Sabotage (•Sabotage is a deliberate action aimed at weakening another entity through subversion, obstruction, disruption, or destruction)other Cachers Caches there should be some intervention from Groundspeak to curtail this pathetic behaviour. Has anyone else noticed this kind of trend? If so, was anything done to help prevent it from continuing?

 

Although i agree with you whole-heartedly, I must play the devils advocate, or in this case the muggle's advocate.

 

You never know where a muggle is going to be. I've gone for a 3 hour walk in the woods through a deep bushwhack only to find a couch and what clearly looks like a hangout place. Never underestimate the power of a muggle :laughing:

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Cache sabotage really isn't a trend. It has been around for a long time -- almost as long as geocaching. Go ahead and perform a forum search dealing with sabotage and/or (cache) maggots/thieves.

 

What you MAY be noticing is that with the introduction of more and more people into the world of geocaching, more and more negative elements accompany that growth. Now, I am not saying that all newcomers are bad, on the contrary, some rather vile proven cache maggots and thieves have been long-time, well respected cachers.

 

It is a simple matter of human characteristics or civilization. The more people involved, the more negative actions increase. It can or probably has been shown in statistical proportions -- the figures I do not have.

 

As an example, years ago (a lifetime, really), I moved from the "city" to a far away village. Life was good, troubles were so-to-speak minimal as far as crime and wrong-doing went. This was an area that many "wished" they could live in. Within a 15-yr period of time, many had transitioned to make their home there and it was the fastest growing (population-wise) area in our state.

Guess what happened. Correct -- the crime rate went through the roof -- still, not the worst, but it did rise dramatically. Both major and minor offenses. In an area where nobody ever locked their doors or took the keys out of their car, suddenly, it seemed like we were back where we had started. Incidentally, we now live in an area (again) where very few lock their doors or remove their car keys. It is growing, but not anywhere near the rapid rate. Primarily because we average around 287" of snow per winter.

What we do notice is the sharp rise in police responses during the winter. There is a huge influx of snowmobilers to the area all winter long. Sure, some of that is related to "away-from-home-where-we-must-lock-our-doors" revelry, but there is also a sharp rise in just plain criminal activity, minor and major.

 

That's it in a nutshell.

 

The first written record of like incident(s) can be directly related to Adam>Eve>Cain>Able.

 

Wow! Do I sound negative or what?

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Good point, and Im sure there is a lot of truth in what you say..it just baffles me why fellow cachers would want to mess with other cachers caches! Makes me wonder if 'they' are jealous of this particular cachers creativity?.. or if they have some personal vendetta against them otherwise why would the Sabatours seem be so threatened by having some challenging and interesting caches by this cacher? I think it's incredibly selfish really, when so many others could be enjoying them~

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Good point, and Im sure there is a lot of truth in what you say..it just baffles me why fellow cachers would want to mess with other cachers caches! Makes me wonder if 'they' are jealous of this particular cachers creativity?.. or if they have some personal vendetta against them otherwise why would the Sabatours seem be so threatened by having some challenging and interesting caches by this cacher? I think it's incredibly selfish really, when so many others could be enjoying them~

 

Some people do have an agenda and are not shy of saying what it is, they are just shy of saying who they are. (this from another thread):04064900-002c-451c-9b40-5e32fb0a35f5.jpg

 

Many of those affected have pointed out that the "Muggler" is factually incorrect about the WMAs in the state where this occured. Maybe this person(s) really believes what they have printed, maybe it's an excuse. Who knows since it is a one-way conversation.

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I am in no way disagreeing with the frustration or wrong doing of stealing Caches, but how do you propose Groundspeak should enforce this? How can you track someone who's identity is unknown without a "streak out" on the Cache?

 

I too would love to see this problem disappear, but asking for Groundspeak to step in would be unrealistic. The only thing we can do is be a positive influence on the community with our Cache hides, and make it clear how/why we have permission to hide our Caches on any given ground. If no proof or reason can be provided then then Caches should not be hidden there.

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I visited a cache last fall in Scottsdale, AZ where someone left a note at the cache site saying that the cache was taken to remove 'micro-spew' (can't remember the exact term, but it was close). I was pissed when I saw that, because it was apparent that a cacher removed someone else's cache because they thought it sucked and they decided to brag about it.

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One of those infrared hunting motion capture cameras would have been dead useful. That is, unless that person also finds it fun to vandalize hunters stuff too.

 

Yes, I can imagine that would serve as a great deterant! Catching those determined to vandalize other peoples caches should include some serious repercussions (ie: being banned from Geocaching.com ...placing or finding caches for a specified term might make those that choose to do so think good and hard about good sportsmanship and the juvinile actions that have led to such consequences~

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I visited a cache last fall in Scottsdale, AZ where someone left a note at the cache site saying that the cache was taken to remove 'micro-spew' (can't remember the exact term, but it was close). I was pissed when I saw that, because it was apparent that a cacher removed someone else's cache because they thought it sucked and they decided to brag about it.

 

how pathetic! Really! ..just because I or anyone else doesn't like a particular cache (type/terrain or whatever) doesn't give them the right to get rid of it. If they feel that strongly about it they shouldn't go for it in the first place.. let those that do enjoy them, do just that.... ENJOY THEM~

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