Jump to content

Does this qualify as a find ? (etiquite)


Recommended Posts

I've not signed logs before for various reasons b ut it was always with the understanding that if the CO wanted to delete it I'd have no recourse, but sometimes I'll take the risk.

 

For example I was just caching in a 3rd world country and there were less than ten in the whole of it, but there was a little kid following me around at GZ begging for money. Could see where the cache was hidden and even a corner of the cache but didn't want to attract attention, but this isn't exactly a LPC down the road I could visit again! (Though alternatively I could've grabbed it to ensure I signed the log, ensuring the cache would be gone forever the moment I left, but that would be selfish of me per later cachers.) So I logged it as a find- hasn't been deleted yet so I guess the CO will let it stay.

 

Granted 99% of the time you don't exactly have a begging child on your tail, when I'm just on a normal cache run I wouldn't attempt it because I can return later.

Link to comment

I've not signed logs before for various reasons b ut it was always with the understanding that if the CO wanted to delete it I'd have no recourse, but sometimes I'll take the risk.

 

For example I was just caching in a 3rd world country and there were less than ten in the whole of it, but there was a little kid following me around at GZ begging for money. Could see where the cache was hidden and even a corner of the cache but didn't want to attract attention, but this isn't exactly a LPC down the road I could visit again! (Though alternatively I could've grabbed it to ensure I signed the log, ensuring the cache would be gone forever the moment I left, but that would be selfish of me per later cachers.) So I logged it as a find- hasn't been deleted yet so I guess the CO will let it stay.

 

Granted 99% of the time you don't exactly have a begging child on your tail, when I'm just on a normal cache run I wouldn't attempt it because I can return later.

"when I'm just on a normal cache run I wouldn't attempt it because I can return later."....this is how I play the game...I dont want to start anything like the thread link above....maybe I should let it go....I will ponder and let some more respond...I appreciate the input!!

Link to comment

I logged a find once (only once) when I couldn't extract the cache. In Arizona, there is land which is "State Trust Land" for which you need a permit to enter. I have such a permit. There is also, obviously, private property where caches shouldn't exist (unless you get owner permission). This one cache, however, was on federal land with huge no trespassing signs and as far as I know - no permits exist for regular schmucks like me to obtain. I could see the cache about 15 feet beyond the fence into the no trespassing zone. Most people logged a find saying that they risked getting caught, I didn't.

 

That was a weird case as I've never seen another cache on forbidden land before. I have had 1 or 2 finds where the log was so wet that I couldn't sign and left a note to that effect.

 

In the end though, you're the CO - it's your call.

Link to comment

I've not signed logs before for various reasons b ut it was always with the understanding that if the CO wanted to delete it I'd have no recourse, but sometimes I'll take the risk.

 

For example I was just caching in a 3rd world country and there were less than ten in the whole of it, but there was a little kid following me around at GZ begging for money. Could see where the cache was hidden and even a corner of the cache but didn't want to attract attention, but this isn't exactly a LPC down the road I could visit again! (Though alternatively I could've grabbed it to ensure I signed the log, ensuring the cache would be gone forever the moment I left, but that would be selfish of me per later cachers.) So I logged it as a find- hasn't been deleted yet so I guess the CO will let it stay.

 

Granted 99% of the time you don't exactly have a begging child on your tail, when I'm just on a normal cache run I wouldn't attempt it because I can return later.

 

Just give the kid a couple of rupees so they will go away while you sign the log!

Get creative.

Do what you have to, but sign the log if you want to claim the find.

Link to comment

Muggles and deciding not to trespass make good dnf stories but are poor excuses for claiming a find even if you are 12,000 miles from home. I disagree with these types of Found Its. Ya gotta let some of 'em go.

 

There are some cases where claiming a non-signed-log find might be o.k. such as if you have a container in your hand but can't get it open through no fault of your own. (A combo lock where you didn't solve what was needed to get the combo does not qualify as no fault of your own.)

 

If you get the container open but the log is missing or destroyed and you don't have anything for a temp log then I have no problems with folks logging that as found - you found the container and opened it. That's a find.

Link to comment

To me, you have to sign the log to get the smiley. But in the end it's your call. It's your cache :)

Toz will be along shortly to tell us we are wrong...

 

however...

 

I know you should get the cache and sign the log before logging online.

Puritan!! :P

I'd give the right answer but it would be too long.

 

The OP in this case could delete the log. He really should put the Stealth Required attribute on his cache if he feels that this is part of the game.

 

Many cache owners would allow the find. They would much prefer the finder quietly walk away rather that compromise the location of the cache.

 

It is really up to the owner. But you should know that the finder could get upset if his log deleted when he feels he did the right thing by not retrieving the cache with a muggle around. You could ask yourself how important is it to delete the log?

Link to comment

A Cacher logged a find for one of my hides and stated "made the find but couldnt get cache to sign log due to a muggler nearby"....I am considering deleting the find....in my opinion part of the game is the stealth required to make the grab....sign the log....and replace.....any thoughts?

 

Life is too short to worry about these things - I would have left a note rather than a DNF - as I would have found the cache. In this case I would let it stand unless there was something awkward in retrieving the cache, for example twenty feet up a cliff, or hanging under a bridge.

 

If the cache 'finder' wants to claim this as a cache find that is up to him, I would let it be. There are no hard and fast rules to this game, it is up to individuals as to how they play it

 

Ultimately it is up to you, but I would let it stand.

Link to comment

I would probably delete the log if I were the CO. I would really prefer it if the cacher would have asked me before logging that as a find. Had he asked, I would probably allow the find.

 

Last week, someone DNF'd a cache of mine, and all the log said was "E-mail inbound."

 

I got his email, and he explained that he had located the cache, had his hand on it, told me where he had his hand on it, and then he dropped it down a nice long metal pole, from which it is pretty much irretrievable. He apologized a couple of times in his email, and told me that maintenance would definitely be required.

 

I disabled the cache, and sent him an email that thanked him for letting me know, as opposed to just walking away and pretending it was someone else. I also told him that if he wanted to log a find, since he had obviously found the cache before dropping it, I'd be ok with that. It was kinda my way of thanking him for being honest and doing the right thing by my cache.

 

For me, it's all how THEY handle the situation.

Link to comment

A Cacher logged a find for one of my hides and stated "made the find but couldnt get cache to sign log due to a muggler nearby"....I am considering deleting the find....in my opinion part of the game is the stealth required to make the grab....sign the log....and replace.....any thoughts?

I certainly would not have logged the find as described. I would have likely logged a note explaining my experience. As the cache owner you must decide if you want to allow it. I would be inclined to have a conversation (email?) with the cacher so I could explain that I expected the container to be retrieved and the log signed before a found it log was done online. I would ask the find be changed to a note or a DNF. Depending on the response I might delete the log.

Link to comment

I've not signed logs before for various reasons b ut it was always with the understanding that if the CO wanted to delete it I'd have no recourse, but sometimes I'll take the risk.

 

For example I was just caching in a 3rd world country and there were less than ten in the whole of it, but there was a little kid following me around at GZ begging for money. Could see where the cache was hidden and even a corner of the cache but didn't want to attract attention, but this isn't exactly a LPC down the road I could visit again! (Though alternatively I could've grabbed it to ensure I signed the log, ensuring the cache would be gone forever the moment I left, but that would be selfish of me per later cachers.) So I logged it as a find- hasn't been deleted yet so I guess the CO will let it stay.

 

Granted 99% of the time you don't exactly have a begging child on your tail, when I'm just on a normal cache run I wouldn't attempt it because I can return later.

"when I'm just on a normal cache run I wouldn't attempt it because I can return later."....this is how I play the game...I dont want to start anything like the thread link above....maybe I should let it go....I will ponder and let some more respond...I appreciate the input!!

 

Let it go. If you delete that log, the guy is most likely going to go flip out and go bonkers. Do you really want him going all Charlie Sheen on your arse?

 

Duh! Winning!! :ph34r:

Link to comment

A Cacher logged a find for one of my hides and stated "made the find but couldnt get cache to sign log due to a muggler nearby"....I am considering deleting the find....in my opinion part of the game is the stealth required to make the grab....sign the log....and replace.....any thoughts?

I certainly would not have logged the find as described. I would have likely logged a note explaining my experience. As the cache owner you must decide if you want to allow it. I would be inclined to have a conversation (email?) with the cacher so I could explain that I expected the container to be retrieved and the log signed before a found it log was done online. I would ask the find be changed to a note or a DNF. Depending on the response I might delete the log.

I agree with this. Why is the first thought everyone has "delete!" - ask the poster to change the log type.

Link to comment

I would delete the find, but for using the word "muggler" instead of "muggle". But that's just me. :rolleyes:

 

Seriously... yes, you have every right to do so, by most opinions (despite what you are about to hear from some) but before you do, you should probably at least glance through this recent thread and determine if it really is worth it to you.

 

Who's the Puritan? ;) ["muggler" instead of "muggle"]

Link to comment

I admit I did that once early on before I hit 100. The cache was a bison tube on a welcome sign in a very busy gas stop. I had my hand on the container, but I knew actually taking the time to open, sign, and replace would risk the cache being taken. I decided to claim my find, and the owner never said anything.

 

Now I would never do that. Maybe I'm more willing to risk the cache being exposed. Maybe I'm more confident with my stealth.

Link to comment

I would delete the find, but for using the word "muggler" instead of "muggle". But that's just me. :rolleyes:

 

Seriously... yes, you have every right to do so, by most opinions (despite what you are about to hear from some) but before you do, you should probably at least glance through this recent thread and determine if it really is worth it to you.

 

Who's the Puritan? ;) ["muggler" instead of "muggle"]

The word, "muggler" is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It is the wrong word... nothing "puritan" about it.

Link to comment

I would delete the find, but for using the word "muggler" instead of "muggle". But that's just me. :rolleyes:

 

Seriously... yes, you have every right to do so, by most opinions (despite what you are about to hear from some) but before you do, you should probably at least glance through this recent thread and determine if it really is worth it to you.

 

Who's the Puritan? ;) ["muggler" instead of "muggle"]

The word, "muggler" is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It is the wrong word... nothing "puritan" about it.

 

Let's not get into an argument about who is more puritaner than who.

Link to comment

I would delete the find, but for using the word "muggler" instead of "muggle". But that's just me. :rolleyes:

 

Seriously... yes, you have every right to do so, by most opinions (despite what you are about to hear from some) but before you do, you should probably at least glance through this recent thread and determine if it really is worth it to you.

 

Who's the Puritan? ;) ["muggler" instead of "muggle"]

The word, "muggler" is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It is the wrong word... nothing "puritan" about it.

 

Let's not get into an argument about who is more puritaner than who.

Screeeeeeeeeeetttttttttttcccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Link to comment
....maybe I should let it go....

That would be my advice. While you would likely be within your rights to delete, doing so might not be the best resolution. Different cachers have different definitions of "Found It". Heck, even I have two completely opposing definitions. For caches I hunt, I will not claim a find unless my signature is on the log. No exceptions. For caches I own, I choose not to engage in debates regarding what is a find and what is not. If someone feels their actions warrant a find on my cache, I'm OK with that. Can't open the ammo can? No problem. Pen doesn't work? No problem. Can't quite reach the cache? No problem. If you think it's a find, I'm good with that.

Link to comment

A Cacher logged a find for one of my hides and stated "made the find but couldnt get cache to sign log due to a muggler nearby"....I am considering deleting the find....in my opinion part of the game is the stealth required to make the grab....sign the log....and replace.....any thoughts?

 

They should not expect to log it as a find if their name is not on the logsheet. The protocol is to e-mail the owner and ask first. At that point the CO makes a decision based on the type of cache, and intention of why they hid it.

 

Is there an intended challenge in retrieving the cache? If so, then the owner would usually not allow a find. Is it only hidden to show off a unique area? If so, then the owner would probably allow a find, and so on.

 

Automatically expecting the CO to allow a find without a signature is considered poor form. Every cache and scenario is a bit different. If they cannot sign in, then they should e-mail the owner with a description of the container first as there could be decoys which may not be the cache.

Link to comment
Seriously... yes, you have every right to do so, by most opinions (despite what you are about to hear from some) but before you do, you should probably at least glance through this recent thread and determine if it really is worth it to you.

Has anyone ever taken the position that cache owners do not have the authority to delete a 'find' log if the logbook has not been signed?
Link to comment
Seriously... yes, you have every right to do so, by most opinions (despite what you are about to hear from some) but before you do, you should probably at least glance through this recent thread and determine if it really is worth it to you.

Has anyone ever taken the position that cache owners do not have the authority to delete a 'find' log if the logbook has not been signed?

 

Probably, but the CO has been granted that ability on the website and so does have that power.

Link to comment

...I would be inclined to have a conversation (email?) with the cacher so I could explain that I expected the container to be retrieved and the log signed before a found it log was done online. I would ask the find be changed to a note or a DNF. Depending on the response I might delete the log.

 

Ding, ding, ding. And the correct answer goes to WRASTRO!

 

Peer pressure with a gentle but firm hand is an effective way to keep this game orderly. If the errant find logger does not hear from the cache community on this matter then they learn that it is o.k. to continue the practice.

Link to comment
....maybe I should let it go....

That would be my advice. While you would likely be within your rights to delete, doing so might not be the best resolution. Different cachers have different definitions of "Found It". Heck, even I have two completely opposing definitions. For caches I hunt, I will not claim a find unless my signature is on the log. No exceptions. For caches I own, I choose not to engage in debates regarding what is a find and what is not. If someone feels their actions warrant a find on my cache, I'm OK with that. Can't open the ammo can? No problem. Pen doesn't work? No problem. Can't quite reach the cache? No problem. If you think it's a find, I'm good with that.

 

I agree with CR for the most part. The only FOUND log I ever deleted was something to the effect "I found the place where the cache was supposed to be, but it wasn't there, so I wrote my name on a piece of paper and stuck it in the hole." When I went to check on the cache, it WAS there, with the piece of paper right in front of it. I emailed the non-finder suggesting that they change their log, but when there was no response, I deleted it--THEN I got a "Why did you delete my log?" response.

Link to comment

A Cacher logged a find for one of my hides and stated "made the find but couldnt get cache to sign log due to a muggler nearby"....I am considering deleting the find....in my opinion part of the game is the stealth required to make the grab....sign the log....and replace.....any thoughts?

 

I agree - you should sign the log however sometimes there are circumstances that people cannot sign - Ie no pen or cannot remove the cache - if this happens to me I usually take a photo and email it or post a discrete photo not giving any clues to prove my find!!

Link to comment

I am a new geocacher, somewhat disabled. Did manage to get to a difficult cache except for the last 6 feet (according to my GPS). It was in sight but I just couldn't climb over two more big trees and some puddles to get it. My husband went over and signed, but did not read the log. Got home and went to log find and found there were 7 rules to be followed, one of which could only be done at the cache. Didn't read log so didn't know. Our fault I know. But being new ( it was our 2nd find) we didn't know about attaching rules. It is too difficult for me to go back and write the required info. Sent a note to cache owner. Also posted a short note that I didn't realize would be posted on the cache site. Question 1 - how can I remove that cache note that shouldn't be on the site. Question 2 - If I do the other 6 things required by the rules, would it be wrong, under the circumstances, to claim it? My guess is probably not. Very frustrating for elderly newbies.

Link to comment

I am a new geocacher, somewhat disabled. Did manage to get to a difficult cache except for the last 6 feet (according to my GPS). It was in sight but I just couldn't climb over two more big trees and some puddles to get it. My husband went over and signed, but did not read the log. Got home and went to log find and found there were 7 rules to be followed, one of which could only be done at the cache. Didn't read log so didn't know. Our fault I know. But being new ( it was our 2nd find) we didn't know about attaching rules. It is too difficult for me to go back and write the required info. Sent a note to cache owner. Also posted a short note that I didn't realize would be posted on the cache site. Question 1 - how can I remove that cache note that shouldn't be on the site. Question 2 - If I do the other 6 things required by the rules, would it be wrong, under the circumstances, to claim it? My guess is probably not. Very frustrating for elderly newbies.

 

There are no rules allowed other than signing the log. Anything else is considered an "additional logging requirement" and must be optional.

Link to comment

I am a new geocacher, somewhat disabled. Did manage to get to a difficult cache except for the last 6 feet (according to my GPS). It was in sight but I just couldn't climb over two more big trees and some puddles to get it. My husband went over and signed, but did not read the log. Got home and went to log find and found there were 7 rules to be followed, one of which could only be done at the cache. Didn't read log so didn't know. Our fault I know. But being new ( it was our 2nd find) we didn't know about attaching rules. It is too difficult for me to go back and write the required info. Sent a note to cache owner. Also posted a short note that I didn't realize would be posted on the cache site. Question 1 - how can I remove that cache note that shouldn't be on the site. Question 2 - If I do the other 6 things required by the rules, would it be wrong, under the circumstances, to claim it? My guess is probably not. Very frustrating for elderly newbies.

That highlighted portion sounds as though it may be Additional Logging Requirements (ALR) and is disallowed by geocaching.com.

 

You can return to your note log, beneath the log itself is an edit option, activate delete.

 

As an aside, I find more and more and more people do not bother reading the cache page BEFORE going (or ever). Perhaps it is just me, but I cannot fathom that, as I feel caching is the DESTINATION, not the cache. Too, a cache in the middle-of-nowhere is a cache in the middle-of-nowhere. So I guess there is a give-and-take to it all.

 

I know of a number of caches, though just a standard cache, that do have a 'secret' compartment that holds the logbook/logsheet. People that do not read the cache page simply think there is no log present, hence they throw in a sheet of paper. End result = deleted find = anxiety = consternation, not to mention that they feel the CO is nothing other than a Bugger (family-friendly forum) for deleting their find. There are a lot of people that adhere to the concept of "no signy, no findy".

 

Perhaps I'll put out more hides wherein the cache page says little or nothing. With that statement, I guess you see what side of the coin I stand on. :yikes:

Link to comment

A Cacher logged a find for one of my hides and stated "made the find but couldnt get cache to sign log due to a muggler nearby"....I am considering deleting the find....in my opinion part of the game is the stealth required to make the grab....sign the log....and replace.....any thoughts?

I learned the hard way...send the cacher a message before you delete...give them a chance to "correct" it before you delete it.

Link to comment

As I lhave logged finds online without actually signing the logbook (including two today!), I'll chime in.

 

I will ONLY claim a find if I've really found it, had it in my hand, and opened it. Anything less is cheating. But I might NOT sign if the log is full, missing, or too wet to sign, or if my pen goes bad. In those "can't sign" cases, I'll usually claim the find with an explanation and post some non-spoiler photo as proof. And if the "can't sign" problem is that the log is missing or wet (and I have nothing to replace it with), I'll also post a NM right after my find.

 

Now, I know this doesn't satisfy some COs, and I completely understand if they delete my finds. When that happens, I don't get upset -- I just go back at my next convenience and sign, and claim the find again.

 

To the OP, since it sounds like the finder didn't give any real proof that they did find it. So I'd send an email and politely say why you're deleting the log -- and that you'd be happy to let them claim it again if they either revisit the cache to sign -- or at least provide some proof that they did have it in hand. "In hand" is the minimum that would satisfy me.

Link to comment

As stated in other posts, I would be wary of deleting the log. Just to spite you he may go back with reckless abandon and retrieve the container no matter who is around. The cache may get muggled. If he is a local I would email him and ask him to try again to sign it. If he is not local, I wouldn't worry about it.

Link to comment
Just give the kid a couple of rupees so they will go away while you sign the log!

If you do that, you'll be surrounded by kids. Including the original, who'll want more.

 

I saw this happen to a guy in the P.I. The first kid that he was being nice to actually called more kids after this guy gave him some money! Ask the kid to run and get something for you instead.

Link to comment

A Cacher logged a find for one of my hides and stated "made the find but couldnt get cache to sign log due to a muggler nearby"....I am considering deleting the find....in my opinion part of the game is the stealth required to make the grab....sign the log....and replace.....any thoughts?

 

Nope, no sign no log.

Link to comment

As I lhave logged finds online without actually signing the logbook (including two today!), I'll chime in.

 

I will ONLY claim a find if I've really found it, had it in my hand, and opened it. Anything less is cheating. But I might NOT sign if the log is full, missing, or too wet to sign, or if my pen goes bad. In those "can't sign" cases, I'll usually claim the find with an explanation and post some non-spoiler photo as proof. And if the "can't sign" problem is that the log is missing or wet (and I have nothing to replace it with), I'll also post a NM right after my find.

 

Now, I know this doesn't satisfy some COs, and I completely understand if they delete my finds. When that happens, I don't get upset -- I just go back at my next convenience and sign, and claim the find again.

 

To the OP, since it sounds like the finder didn't give any real proof that they did find it. So I'd send an email and politely say why you're deleting the log -- and that you'd be happy to let them claim it again if they either revisit the cache to sign -- or at least provide some proof that they did have it in hand. "In hand" is the minimum that would satisfy me.

 

If I can't sign a log, I ask the owner to go fix it, then I return and put my name in the logbook.

 

Then again I am a Puritan.

 

Edit: There was this time that I found a cache but forgot to bring a pen. I could have taken a picture but I thought, nah, I'd rather have my name in the book rather than anything thing else. Believe it or not, it just seems easier that way.

Edited by BlueDeuce
Link to comment

A Cacher logged a find for one of my hides and stated "made the find but couldnt get cache to sign log due to a muggler nearby"....I am considering deleting the find....in my opinion part of the game is the stealth required to make the grab....sign the log....and replace.....any thoughts?

 

NO MERCY!!!!.....*deleted*

Link to comment

My feeling would be to look at the circumstances. I would think that most of us have looked at your caches and seen the logs, thus guessing who the cacher is. If it is who I am guessing, I see he is from very far away, caching with small children. He or a log just before mentions homeless people. While they dont bother me much, they scare the heck out of my youngest. She would not be cooperative.

The cacher looks well experienced, does not come to the forums bragging about not signing logs, was thousands of miles from home and had a reasonable explanation.

 

I'd let it go.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...