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Mac For GSAK or alternative


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There is no real substitute for GSAK on the Mac platform. If you really like GSAK your best bet is to run one of the Windows emulators, or use software like VMware or Parallels to run Windows on the Mac (that's what I do, VMware Fusion under Windows XP on my Mac mini).

 

Good luck!

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'm a Mac user, but got a PC laptop so I could run GSAK

If that's ALL you're using the PC laptop for, it's a pretty expensive way to go. GSAK runs under Crossover.

CrossOver System Requirements

* Mac Version

o Intel-based Macintosh system running Mac OS X

(note: CrossOver will not run on PowerPC systems)

 

The laptop was cheaper than a new Intel-based Mac!

And I can take the laptop with me, and use it away from home (it has Wifi)

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'm a Mac user, but got a PC laptop so I could run GSAK

If that's ALL you're using the PC laptop for, it's a pretty expensive way to go. GSAK runs under Crossover.

CrossOver System Requirements

* Mac Version

o Intel-based Macintosh system running Mac OS X

(note: CrossOver will not run on PowerPC systems)

 

The laptop was cheaper than a new Intel-based Mac!

And I can take the laptop with me, and use it away from home (it has Wifi)

The last PowerPC Mac was sold five years ago. It's about time to upgrade anyway if you're still holding onto one - very few programs are coming out as Universal anymore, and the OS has been left far behind.

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A lot depends on what you want to use GSAK for. The main reason I would use it is to provide corrected coordinates for puzzle solutions. MacCaching doesn't provide that feature. My solution is to use boulter's Geocaching Basecamp, which lets me manage corrected coordinates, upload PQ data, and download GPX files with the coordinates of caches replaced by the corrected coordinates.

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Well, I have just switched to Mac. I have a MacBook Pro and I'm loving it. My solution to GSAK on the Mac was pretty simple - I'm running GSAK on Windows, using VMWare Fusion. Works great, and I get my MapSource too.

Downside is the cost of the VMWare licence and that you still need a Windows licence. But if you've got a Mac, this solution works pretty seamlessly. My GSAK workflow is virtually the same as it was before I got my Mac.

 

I could get a netbook, but I've got 30,000 caches in my GSAK db. I'd rather have an i7 chewing on that than an Atom processor.

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Well, I have just switched to Mac. I have a MacBook Pro and I'm loving it. My solution to GSAK on the Mac was pretty simple - I'm running GSAK on Windows, using VMWare Fusion. Works great, and I get my MapSource too.

Downside is the cost of the VMWare licence and that you still need a Windows licence. But if you've got a Mac, this solution works pretty seamlessly. My GSAK workflow is virtually the same as it was before I got my Mac.

You could have tried VirtualBox (free) first; if all you need it for is GSAK to mess with your database, it may be enough. Also, if you keep your eyes open, you can get a good price on VMWare - mine netted out to $15 after a Black Friday sale and $30 mail-in rebate.

 

I could get a netbook, but I've got 30,000 caches in my GSAK db. I'd rather have an i7 chewing on that than an Atom processor.

I'm curious about your setup and the performance; I've got about 22K caches in my DB and GSAK chugs when I change sort orders and do some other tasks. Maybe better as an offline conversation - but it might be short too, my MacBook is a Core 2 Duo that's almost 3 1/2 years old, so it's a little slower than your Quad i7.

 

Enjoy your Mac! My brother just got one from work as he's supposed to start supporting them soon, and within a couple hours he started thinking his next personal computer purchase will be a Mac.

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Well, I have just switched to Mac. I have a MacBook Pro and I'm loving it. My solution to GSAK on the Mac was pretty simple - I'm running GSAK on Windows, using VMWare Fusion. Works great, and I get my MapSource too.

Downside is the cost of the VMWare licence and that you still need a Windows licence. But if you've got a Mac, this solution works pretty seamlessly. My GSAK workflow is virtually the same as it was before I got my Mac.

You could have tried VirtualBox (free) first; if all you need it for is GSAK to mess with your database, it may be enough. Also, if you keep your eyes open, you can get a good price on VMWare - mine netted out to $15 after a Black Friday sale and $30 mail-in rebate.

 

Well, I'm an IT guy by trade so it's handy to have Windows available. What I really wanted from VMWare Fusion was that one-button grab the old machine and virtualize it feature. Major headache for me was all my tools for creating the Ontario Trails Project maps that I didn't want to rebuild. Editors, compilers, macros, bleh. GSAK came along for the ride. I went with VMWare based on peer reviews (my peers) and my experiences with VMWare on my Windows PC. I ran MacOS X on my Windows computer in a VM for about 4 months before jumping over to MacOS. The catalyst for me was the death of my Windows box, so I wanted to be up and running quickly again. I haven't given VMWare the money yet (30 day trial) but so far I'm willing to fork it over based on my experience so far. Literally I dropped my old laptop HDD into a laptop I borrowed from work, ran a program on it and waited about 2 hours for the network transfer, and have 100% of my Windows environment ported over and available to me if I need it. Thanks for the price tip, I'll keep an eye open.

 

I could get a netbook, but I've got 30,000 caches in my GSAK db. I'd rather have an i7 chewing on that than an Atom processor.

I'm curious about your setup and the performance; I've got about 22K caches in my DB and GSAK chugs when I change sort orders and do some other tasks. Maybe better as an offline conversation - but it might be short too, my MacBook is a Core 2 Duo that's almost 3 1/2 years old, so it's a little slower than your Quad i7.

 

Enjoy your Mac! My brother just got one from work as he's supposed to start supporting them soon, and within a couple hours he started thinking his next personal computer purchase will be a Mac.

 

GSAK on the Macbook takes about 3-4 minutes to generate a 4000 cache GPX file for my Dropbox sync (for Geosphere). Sorting / recalculating center points are a bit quicker than they were running native on my 25 month old Core 2 Duo laptop that died. (Dell Studio 1537). I have a couple friends that run GSAK on their Atom based netbooks and the database operations are quite painful to watch.

 

My VM setting is 1GB RAM, running Windows 7 Ultimate. Was expecting it to perform worse given that the memory assigned to it is 1GB not 3GB now.

 

I will say this, I can't see me going back to Windows anytime soon. That's from a 25+ year MS-DOS/Windows veteran IT Guy. I simply cannot believe the thought that went into this machine.

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Well, I'm an IT guy by trade so it's handy to have Windows available. What I really wanted from VMWare Fusion was that one-button grab the old machine and virtualize it feature. Major headache for me was all my tools for creating the Ontario Trails Project maps that I didn't want to rebuild. Editors, compilers, macros, bleh. GSAK came along for the ride. I went with VMWare based on peer reviews (my peers) and my experiences with VMWare on my Windows PC. I ran MacOS X on my Windows computer in a VM for about 4 months before jumping over to MacOS. The catalyst for me was the death of my Windows box, so I wanted to be up and running quickly again. I haven't given VMWare the money yet (30 day trial) but so far I'm willing to fork it over based on my experience so far. Literally I dropped my old laptop HDD into a laptop I borrowed from work, ran a program on it and waited about 2 hours for the network transfer, and have 100% of my Windows environment ported over and available to me if I need it. Thanks for the price tip, I'll keep an eye open.

No argument, P2V is pretty slick. That was how I did my first migration. Then I decided there was too much cruft in that old system I just plain didn't need around, so I ended up with a fresh install and it ran much smoother.

 

Tip: VirtualBox can use VMWare VMDKs, if you want to give it a spin. Make a copy of your VM (for backup, just in case) and install VirtualBox, and point it at the VMDK from VMWare. You'll need to uninstall the VMWare tools & install the VirtualBox version. I've actually done this both ways - started with VMWare, went to VirtualBox, now back to VMWare.

 

If you do a VMWare rebate, stay on them. The company that fulfills the rebates is really slow and you have to nag them to send your money. It took me close to 3 months to get mine.

 

VMWare is more polished, and comparing V3 to VirtualBox 3, seems a bit faster. It's definitely more polished, and the support is better. And if you've got VMWare at work, you can use the various tools (like drive/partition resizing) from that.

 

GSAK on the Macbook takes about 3-4 minutes to generate a 4000 cache GPX file for my Dropbox sync (for Geosphere). Sorting / recalculating center points are a bit quicker than they were running native on my 25 month old Core 2 Duo laptop that died. (Dell Studio 1537). I have a couple friends that run GSAK on their Atom based netbooks and the database operations are quite painful to watch.
I haven't timed mine, but that definitely sounds faster (accounting for the larger file). I keep all my data files for GSAK on a drive that's mapped from the share that VMWare provides - that way I can back up my data (Time Machine) without backing up the whole VM every time. But I'm sure I'm paying a performance penalty for it.

 

I've thought about putting the data on Dropbox instead, so that I get it backed up locally and on The Cloud, I just haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

 

I will say this, I can't see me going back to Windows anytime soon. That's from a 25+ year MS-DOS/Windows veteran IT Guy. I simply cannot believe the thought that went into this machine.

I hear that a lot. People complain about the price premium, but to me (this is my first Mac) it's been well worth it. All the little things, on top of the obvious big things, make it an incredible package. To me, Windows + PC hardware just feels like a computer that was put together. Macs feel like a system that was designed. Edited by dakboy
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Anybody point me in the right direction for a GSAK type thing for Mac? Not for me. For the GF.

 

Also, once she downloads a PQ, how does she get it on her 60CSX?

 

Thanks.

 

Since short time, iCaching is in de Mac App Store. You can use it for sorting/viewing/organising GPX-files. Don't know if 60CSX can directly import GPX-files, otherwise use (free) GPSBabel or Garmin-software to put it on GPS.

Is there a trial version available? Looks like an updated version of MacCaching.

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Warming up a thread gone cold... for the subset of Mac users who also have an iPhone -- there's gotta be more then just me and northernpenguin -- I've started to realize Geosphere can do an awful lot that GSAK can.

 

- Build big, unfiltered pocket queries on Geocaching website, and download them directly into Geosphere.

- Search, filter, mark, and group caches in Geosphere, using a huge number of available options in the program.

- If you need to use some filtered list of caches on something other than your iPhone, Geosphere can EXPORT any group you set up, either to email or via iTunes file sharing.

 

I realized the value of that last point the other day. I have thousands of caches on my iPhone, but wanted a very specific subset on my Garmin. Exported them from Geosphere to my computer and put them onto the Garmin using Basecamp. Didn't need GSAK or a windows emulator or anything else.

 

Although I've posted this in connection with MAC users wanting a substitute for GSAK, it's really useful for any iPhone user, Mac or PC.

 

It's taken me a while to warm up to Geosphere, because quite a bit of power is wrapped in a sometimes confusing, inconsistent user interface. But it's okay, because I keep stumbling upon little goodies like that one.

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Geosphere really is great. You are right it does do a lot of what GSAK does and not only that but do it on the fly why you are out in the field. It does not have every feature GSAK does but has a lot of what helps you cut down a PQ to exactly what you are looking for.

 

The thing I like the best is the directional feature. This is where you can be at point A and you need to get to point B which is west. You can just tell Geosphere to show you geocaches to the west. Its as close as we can get to a GSAK app on the iPhone. My only gripe is it is not as user friendly to use as the official Geocaching application. After you use it a few times you get the hang but it still is clunky. There are a few things it does that I really like such as pull my PQ's from Dropbox, which the official Geocaching app does not.

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Tip: VirtualBox can use VMWare VMDKs, if you want to give it a spin. Make a copy of your VM (for backup, just in case) and install VirtualBox, and point it at the VMDK from VMWare. You'll need to uninstall the VMWare tools & install the VirtualBox version. I've actually done this both ways - started with VMWare, went to VirtualBox, now back to VMWare.

 

If you do a VMWare rebate, stay on them. The company that fulfills the rebates is really slow and you have to nag them to send your money. It took me close to 3 months to get mine.

 

VMWare is more polished, and comparing V3 to VirtualBox 3, seems a bit faster. It's definitely more polished, and the support is better. And if you've got VMWare at work, you can use the various tools (like drive/partition resizing) from that.

 

 

Little something I learned (the hard way) about VirtualBox on my 2011 MBP. VirtualBox does not like 64-bit kernels - machine would randomly lock up after a few minutes of use - that was guest AND host that crashed. I could also trigger the lock up pretty much instantly by starting VirtualBox, then something like Basecamp on the host. Turns out, starting in 2011 the MacBook Pros default to a 64 bit kernel and VirtualBox isn't quite ready for prime time on those kernels, so I have to start up my machine in 32 bit mode (hold 3 and 2 keys during boot) if I want to use VirtualBox. VMWare works fine on 64 bit. Of course, I've got ONE piece of software that won't run properly in VMWare due to the way virtualization is done, but will work in VirtualBox.

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Of course, I've got ONE piece of software that won't run properly in VMWare due to the way virtualization is done, but will work in VirtualBox.

I bet the VMWare guys would love to know about that so they can fix it. Is it something that's available (legally) online so that I could give it a try?

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Of course, I've got ONE piece of software that won't run properly in VMWare due to the way virtualization is done, but will work in VirtualBox.

I bet the VMWare guys would love to know about that so they can fix it. Is it something that's available (legally) online so that I could give it a try?

 

No, it's a licenced program that actively tries to block running in a VM, because it's always better to punish your paying customers.

I bought the program years ago, and when it wouldn't work in the VM, I contacted the author who said it was by design and to go buy a PC. It works in VirtualBox, but I don't want to name the program here since I don't want to tip off the author that I found a workaround that didn't involve purchasing a PC. What DID happen is I did not purchase an upgrade for a related program since the author(s) are actively trying to prevent me from using it if I have to use it in a VM.

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Of course, I've got ONE piece of software that won't run properly in VMWare due to the way virtualization is done, but will work in VirtualBox.

I bet the VMWare guys would love to know about that so they can fix it. Is it something that's available (legally) online so that I could give it a try?

 

No, it's a licenced program that actively tries to block running in a VM, because it's always better to punish your paying customers.

I bought the program years ago, and when it wouldn't work in the VM, I contacted the author who said it was by design and to go buy a PC. It works in VirtualBox, but I don't want to name the program here since I don't want to tip off the author that I found a workaround that didn't involve purchasing a PC. What DID happen is I did not purchase an upgrade for a related program since the author(s) are actively trying to prevent me from using it if I have to use it in a VM.

Reminds me of a client/server app we have at work. The server end has its licensing tied to your CPU & MAC address, to prevent you from installing it on additional servers. If the CPUID/serial number or MAC address change, it drops to "trial mode" and you have to call to get a new license key (no charge, but a hassle).

 

Because NICs & CPUs never fry & have to get replaced, right?

 

We put the software on a VM. We have 4 hosts in our ESX farm, and ESX will move VMs around based upon memory & CPU loading. When the VM got moved by ESX, our license immediately got invalidated because the virtual NIC's MAC address changes (and in this case so does the CPU's serial number and CPUID because the hosts aren't identical hardware, one has faster CPUs). So now we have to lock that VM to a particular ESX host, negating one of the advantages of running virtual in the first place.

 

The vendor of course does not share our view on this license-locking strategy.

 

In your case, what financial incentive does this vendor have to make you buy a PC?

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In your case, what financial incentive does this vendor have to make you buy a PC?

 

None, that I can tell. It's a small developer that feels this form of copy protection maximizes his revenue. What actually happened is I started investigating some open source software that I may switch to.

What's really sad is the program is one that the hackers of the world already removed the protection and posted it to torrent sites - it's literally only the paying (honest) customers this developer is harming.

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What's really sad is the program is one that the hackers of the world already removed the protection and posted it to torrent sites - it's literally only the paying (honest) customers this developer is harming.

Locks keep out only the honest.

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I gave up on vmware fusion a while ago - it was just too slow, even running XP. Currently have windows 7 running via bootcamp, which is the way to go - fast and works perfectly.

 

But I've stopped using my windows setup for gsak - I set up gsak using winebottler, and now have it as a standalone app on my mac. It mostly works - I can't do a direct usb transfer because I haven't figured out how to make usb work, but it's just a matter of dragging and dropping gpx files once gsak creates them. Of course this might not work for older gps units, but it works with my oregon.

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I gave up on vmware fusion a while ago - it was just too slow, even running XP. Currently have windows 7 running via bootcamp, which is the way to go - fast and works perfectly.

 

But I've stopped using my windows setup for gsak - I set up gsak using winebottler, and now have it as a standalone app on my mac. It mostly works - I can't do a direct usb transfer because I haven't figured out how to make usb work, but it's just a matter of dragging and dropping gpx files once gsak creates them. Of course this might not work for older gps units, but it works with my oregon.

 

I didn't want to repartition for Bootcamp. Besides, I bought a MacBook to run MacOS. Rebooting for GSAK would just not do. Fortunately my MBP is capable of running VMWare Fusion fast. Actually, I have run 5 VMs at once - two in Fusion, three in VirtualBox without any perceivable performance hit on the host, or any of the guest computers.

 

I have also put GSAK into a folder with Winebottler - and I'm toying with the idea of sharing that folder to VMWare so I can run GSAK native or "bottled" depending on my planned use for that session.

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Although I'm not completely happy with it, the best Mac app that I've found for coordinating your PQs and such is Garmin's Road Trip. Quite likely it will only talk to Garmin handhelds, and there may be proprietary software available for Macs to use with DeLorme or other GPS handheld makers, but I don't know about them.

 

I tried MacCaching and found it too kludgy, then found RoadTrip (it doesn't come on the CD included in the 60CSx package - go figure) a little over a year ago, and never looked back.

 

I have a netbook that I use as a one-trick pony for an app (not geocaching) that doesn't have a Mac equivalent, so I've been toying with the idea of trying out GSAK just to see if I'm overwhelmed by it. Also thinking about creating a separate boot drive for my MacBook and formatting it with bootcamp and some flavor of Windows for the same purpose.

 

Please allow a tangent to this thread: I noted where someone posted above maintaining a several-thousand cache DB in GSAK, but that person didn't mention what GPS handheld they used. I was surprised when I bumped into the apparent 999-geocache upper limit on my Garmin 60 CSx. Apparently you can have a larger number of POIs or waypoints, but when searching for the caches, I like the geocache display better on the Garmin than the waypoint display. Before I used the 60 for the first time, I bought a large capacity micro SD card, thinking that I could put lots of caches on there. Then one day when trying to mark a spot, I got a "database full" flag. I had to start thinking about only loading those caches where I was likely to be heading that day, and leaving out the rest. Then, when I wanted to go a different direction, I had to delete everything from the handheld and load a whole new set of caches. That's a big pain to me, as I'd like to be able to just pick up and go geocaching, and know that whatever is out there in whatever direction will be loaded on my GPS. I'm not talking about the worldwide database, but there are several thousand caches within 30-40 miles of home, and it would be nice if they were just there.

 

So, the question to those folks who maintain big GSAK databases: Do you have to plan to load only a fraction of those caches for any one expedition, or do you have a GPSr that can accept them all? If the latter, which one is it?

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Although I'm not completely happy with it, the best Mac app that I've found for coordinating your PQs and such is Garmin's Road Trip. Quite likely it will only talk to Garmin handhelds, and there may be proprietary software available for Macs to use with DeLorme or other GPS handheld makers, but I don't know about them.

 

I tried MacCaching and found it too kludgy, then found RoadTrip (it doesn't come on the CD included in the 60CSx package - go figure) a little over a year ago, and never looked back.

 

I have a netbook that I use as a one-trick pony for an app (not geocaching) that doesn't have a Mac equivalent, so I've been toying with the idea of trying out GSAK just to see if I'm overwhelmed by it. Also thinking about creating a separate boot drive for my MacBook and formatting it with bootcamp and some flavor of Windows for the same purpose.

 

Please allow a tangent to this thread: I noted where someone posted above maintaining a several-thousand cache DB in GSAK, but that person didn't mention what GPS handheld they used. I was surprised when I bumped into the apparent 999-geocache upper limit on my Garmin 60 CSx. Apparently you can have a larger number of POIs or waypoints, but when searching for the caches, I like the geocache display better on the Garmin than the waypoint display. Before I used the 60 for the first time, I bought a large capacity micro SD card, thinking that I could put lots of caches on there. Then one day when trying to mark a spot, I got a "database full" flag. I had to start thinking about only loading those caches where I was likely to be heading that day, and leaving out the rest. Then, when I wanted to go a different direction, I had to delete everything from the handheld and load a whole new set of caches. That's a big pain to me, as I'd like to be able to just pick up and go geocaching, and know that whatever is out there in whatever direction will be loaded on my GPS. I'm not talking about the worldwide database, but there are several thousand caches within 30-40 miles of home, and it would be nice if they were just there.

 

So, the question to those folks who maintain big GSAK databases: Do you have to plan to load only a fraction of those caches for any one expedition, or do you have a GPSr that can accept them all? If the latter, which one is it?

 

I think you're referring to me and my 30,000 cache database. I load multiple devices from it. My Garmin Colorado maxes out at 2,000 geocaches, so I load 1,900 centered on a target cache when I go out. I also send 4,000 caches to Geosphere on my iPhone. The newer Garmins (Oregon x50 series for example) can load up to 5,000 caches at once. 1,900 caches in my neck of the woods gives me about 100km radius to explore. While I do remove the old caches and replace them each time I go caching, I've got that down to one button press in GSAK these days. Literally connect my GPS, center on a cache and hit the "Load Colorado" button on my GSAK Macro bar.

 

My large database is more for running filters and analyzing which areas to go caching, and for loading up the GPS on those days the site is down or the PQs get backed up.

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So, the question to those folks who maintain big GSAK databases: Do you have to plan to load only a fraction of those caches for any one expedition, or do you have a GPSr that can accept them all? If the latter, which one is it?

20K caches in one of my databases. My GPSr can only load 1000 waypoints & caches at a time (par for the course for most GPSrs), but I would never have a need for so many caches on the trail. I use filters to pick the appropriate caches for areas I'll be, export multiple GPX files, and copy those to my GPSr to load up when I go caching.

 

Anywhere I go in New York, I can crank out an up to date GPX file appropriate for where I'll be and what I can actually hunt for (I'm not going to run after a 5/5 if I'm on my way to a wedding) & have it in my hand within 5 minutes.

Edited by dakboy
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I agree that 1000 caches is way more than I'd ever look for in a session, even a year. But that upper limit, played against the number of caches in my various PQs, means that I can't go caching on impulse without taking the risk that there will be caches where I go that aren't loaded on the GPS. I wonder why the GPS manufacturers place that artificial constraint on geocaches, especially considering that there doesn't seem to be that constraint on POIs or other waypoints. Why wouldn't they let the size of available storage dictate the limit of caches? Oh well, maybe I need to go GPSr shopping.

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I agree that 1000 caches is way more than I'd ever look for in a session, even a year. But that upper limit, played against the number of caches in my various PQs, means that I can't go caching on impulse without taking the risk that there will be caches where I go that aren't loaded on the GPS.

If you're loading for "impulse caching" then there's a lot of filtering to be done - limit your D/T, eliminate multis, field puzzles & other puzzles you haven't solved coords for, etc. You'll find that the density drops quite a bit once you start doing that.
I wonder why the GPS manufacturers place that artificial constraint on geocaches, especially considering that there doesn't seem to be that constraint on POIs or other waypoints.
Because depending upon the GPSr in question, a geocache carries with it a lot more data than a simple POI.
Why wouldn't they let the size of available storage dictate the limit of caches?

Because on some GPSrs, there's 3 tiers of storage, each with different size, performance & locality characteristics. On DeLormes, for example, you've got SD storage (slowest, interchangeable, largest), internal storage (fixed size, middle of the road speed), and WP/cache memory (fixed, smaller, fastest, closest to the main CPU & working memory of the device). You can't cram everything into the "best" memory location.

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I gave up on vmware fusion a while ago - it was just too slow, even running XP. Currently have windows 7 running via bootcamp, which is the way to go - fast and works perfectly.

 

But I've stopped using my windows setup for gsak - I set up gsak using winebottler, and now have it as a standalone app on my mac. It mostly works - I can't do a direct usb transfer because I haven't figured out how to make usb work, but it's just a matter of dragging and dropping gpx files once gsak creates them. Of course this might not work for older gps units, but it works with my oregon.

 

Thanks for posting !!!!

I'd never even heard of winebottler.

 

Current GSAK works fine for me under it as a standalone app (Snow Leopard on a original/old white MacBook). I created a bunch of databases and it seems to act normally. Haven't installed any add-on macros yet, but from what I've seen so far I don't expect any problems there.

 

One thing I haven't figured out yet is how to update GSAK to beta versions within a bottled app. Most of my downloaded macros need latest/greatest beta patches added to GSAK, so I'm expecting that will be a problem. Eventually Clyde will update the app in its released form and I'll just re-bottle it.

 

Sure 'seems' faster to me than running Win7 under Fusion, but it might be having all the system ram available. Definitely faster in terms of workflow for my normal case where I'm downloading overlapping queries and reducing the data down to the union of all the unique caches and waypoints. Needing to drag an exported GPX file probably won't be too painful.

 

Thanks again !

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