Tbs dissappearing out of locked cache unknown log signings

[+SirKarp]

I'm having a weird thing going on with one of my caches in Seattle. The last 4 travel bugs placed into the cache have disappeared within a day or two of being placed into the cache. The cache container is locked with a combo lock. One would think this would eliminate muggles but there are a couple of signatures on the log in the cache that are not on the online log. Also when I look up those names they come back as not a registered user. So I'm mostly posting this to see if anyone else has had an experience like this, or for that matter any other thoughts.

 

Thanks,

SirKarp ~ Rob

Edited March 15, 2011 by SirKarp

[+Max and 99]

Wow-sounds like you are dealing with some very clever muggles!

[+LandRover]

Try

Here

or here

just to see a couple

[+TotemLake]

Not everyone that plays logs on line. This isn't unusual. I also know of some folks using an alias to cover their alias. Some of this is due to the fact they have been log stalked.

[+ventura_kids]

....and many cachers don't log their travel bugs out in a timely manner.

So...they may get logged into another cache...hopefully.

[+TheWinterTrio]

Take a look at this post on the WSGA boards.

[+SirKarp]

Thanks for all the reply's folks. I might believe that it was just someone being very slow to log... But this has happened over a period of a few months, if it is one person they are revisiting to take the TBs. I don't know if I'll ever know for sure what has happened. Guess we'll see.

 

SirKarp ~ Rob

[+Shaggy, Scooby, and Velma]

Thanks for all the reply's folks. I might believe that it was just someone being very slow to log... But this has happened over a period of a few months, if it is one person they are revisiting to take the TBs. I don't know if I'll ever know for sure what has happened. Guess we'll see.

 

SirKarp ~ Rob

 

There is a local cacher going around taking all the TB's in the area. We have a teleport cache to Europe and it has been raided several times. There is no new name in the log book, but everything is gone. This same person took 30 trackables out of Ms. Froggy's cache recently. She confronted him, at an event and he admitted to taking all 30, but he hasn't logged out a single one. Rumor has it he has some issue going on with Groundspeak and until it gets resolved, he won't log out any trackables, yet he continues to take travel bugs in the area.

 

It's sad that one person would ruin the game for so many. These trackables belong to children, who get excited to see them move. I wish this person would consider the children. Hopefully someday he will think of the children, instead of some silly issue with Groundspeak.

[TheCacheSeeker]

Yes, a family member had a cache with that name signed on the logbook. Then the trackable was gone after we checked on it. It is very likely he had taken it because he was the person right after the person who left the travel bug. The sad thing is that travel bug only traveled a little bit then it got lost.

Edited March 19, 2011 by TheCacheSeeker

[avroair]

If you set your cache to premium then you can view the audit log to see who has looked at your cache. This seems to have protected travel bugs in my travel bug hotel.

[NW Stinkerbella]

If you set your cache to premium then you can view the audit log to see who has looked at your cache. This seems to have protected travel bugs in my travel bug hotel.

 

OHHH NOO the dreaded Premium cache. As a non premium member I didn't know this was a possibility but I still have to question what stops the cacher in question from taking the bugs anyway? I think that would give a false sense of security just like Sir and I adding a padlock to our cache Twisted Jet Wing. The lock did not stop someone from taking the TBs in 2 different occasions. So just because we can prove someone looked at the cache page does not prove who took the bugs nor give us the ability to go to their house to get then back. I can only make the assumption he took them and mark them MIA and hope one day they may be allowed to return to their journey.

 

As a side note this cacher is no longer our dirty little secret out of towners are now questioning the lack of TBs in caches... this thread

[jholly]

If you set your cache to premium then you can view the audit log to see who has looked at your cache. This seems to have protected travel bugs in my travel bug hotel.

 

OHHH NOO the dreaded Premium cache. As a non premium member I didn't know this was a possibility but I still have to question what stops the cacher in question from taking the bugs anyway? I think that would give a false sense of security just like Sir and I adding a padlock to our cache Twisted Jet Wing. The lock did not stop someone from taking the TBs in 2 different occasions. So just because we can prove someone looked at the cache page does not prove who took the bugs nor give us the ability to go to their house to get then back. I can only make the assumption he took them and mark them MIA and hope one day they may be allowed to return to their journey.

 

As a side note this cacher is no longer our dirty little secret out of towners are now questioning the lack of TBs in caches... this thread

The theory is the nefarious one takes a look at the cache page to see if there is anything to plunder. His look shows up in the cache audit log. If bugs/coins go missing shortly after that then one can perhaps draw a connection between the look and the missing travelers.

 

The only ones that can mark a traveler missing is the traveler owner or the cache owner it is in.

Edited March 20, 2011 by jholly

[NW Stinkerbella]

The theory is the nefarious one takes a look at the cache page to see if there is anything to plunder. His look shows up in the cache audit log. If bugs/coins go missing shortly after that then one can perhaps draw a connection between the look and the missing travelers.

 

The only ones that can mark a traveler missing is the traveler owner or the cache owner it is in.

 

Just as I thought even if a cache is a premium only assumptions can be made about missing TBs. It would do nothing to truly prevent someone nefarious from taking them nor help in getting them put back into play.

[+Logscaler and Red]

Audit logs and premium memberships will only do so much as there is a workaround for skipping the audit logs.

 

If you place the cache on private property and notify the suspected thief he is not welcome on said property you might have a chance of getting a trespass charge on him.

 

Mostly, you have to either wait for him to get over his childishness and hissyfits or not place any bugs around the area. Possibly getting his photo raiding the cache with a trailcam and publishing them will deter him somewhat.

[+_Shaddow_]

Audit logs and premium memberships will only do so much as there is a workaround for skipping the audit logs.

 

If you place the cache on private property and notify the suspected thief he is not welcome on said property you might have a chance of getting a trespass charge on him.

 

Mostly, you have to either wait for him to get over his childishness and hissyfits or not place any bugs around the area. Possibly getting his photo raiding the cache with a trailcam and publishing them will deter him somewhat.

 

This is a FANTASTIC idea. I've got several bugs I've held onto for far too long simply because I don't know a safe place to put them. Usually I try to drop them on hikes but then they’re prone to sit in those seldom visited caches for weeks or months. So basically, they sit in a cache or sit in my possession. Sadly, the two things I’m doing to protect them have the same result as the bad thing I’m trying to avoid: their being taking out of circulation.

 

One thing that would be a big help to get around the issue, at least temporarily, is one or several 'safe drops,’ caches where we could drop them off and know they will at least be safe. This would allow for some exchanges without waiting for events or chance encounters, or having to set up a prearranged meeting with another cacher. Far from a perfect solution but much better then the current situation which in affect is a Seattle Trackable Blackhole.

 

To do this would involve expanding on logscaler & Red's idea:

 

1. A cache on private property

2. Formally notify the person of interest (BTW why aren’t we saying his name, everyone knows who he is) that he is unwelcome on the property and will be trespassing if he steps foot on it

3. A still or video camera set up on the cache that would capture the face of visitors

4. Someone willing to check the cache after nearly every visit or set up the camera, or another camera, to catch the exchange on tape

 

Basically, the idea is that he can’t legally get to the cache (read: the items in it) and if he does then there is enough information to legally pursue him. Charges could either be pressed, he could be taken to civil court or he could at least be pressured to quit his stupid and immature games and caugh up the trackables.

[+Dgwphotos]

 

One thing that would be a big help to get around the issue, at least temporarily, is one or several 'safe drops,’ caches where we could drop them off and know they will at least be safe. This would allow for some exchanges without waiting for events or chance encounters, or having to set up a prearranged meeting with another cacher. Far from a perfect solution but much better then the current situation which in affect is a Seattle Trackable Blackhole.

I was thinking more along the line of an unpublished cache. If you publish it, then he can find out about it. If it's not published, and you hand out coordinates to trusted cachers, then he won't know about it, or where it is.

[avroair]

The theory is the nefarious one takes a look at the cache page to see if there is anything to plunder. His look shows up in the cache audit log. If bugs/coins go missing shortly after that then one can perhaps draw a connection between the look and the missing travelers.

 

The only ones that can mark a traveler missing is the traveler owner or the cache owner it is in.

 

Just as I thought even if a cache is a premium only assumptions can be made about missing TBs. It would do nothing to truly prevent someone nefarious from taking them nor help in getting them put back into play.

 

Actually, the theory is that he isn't a premium member so then he can't look at the cache page and see what's in the cache. It therefore locks the person out. Now if he has already found the cache and decides to return there is nothing stopping that... but then it would be a guess that there are bugs in there rather than actual targeting.

[+seattlegeekgrrrlz]

The theory is the nefarious one takes a look at the cache page to see if there is anything to plunder. His look shows up in the cache audit log. If bugs/coins go missing shortly after that then one can perhaps draw a connection between the look and the missing travelers.

 

The only ones that can mark a traveler missing is the traveler owner or the cache owner it is in.

 

Just as I thought even if a cache is a premium only assumptions can be made about missing TBs. It would do nothing to truly prevent someone nefarious from taking them nor help in getting them put back into play.

 

Actually, the theory is that he isn't a premium member so then he can't look at the cache page and see what's in the cache. It therefore locks the person out. Now if he has already found the cache and decides to return there is nothing stopping that... but then it would be a guess that there are bugs in there rather than actual targeting.

 

Unfortunately, I think he is a premium member. He has visited my premium cache and signed the log. This cache has never never been a regular cache...

[+_Shaddow_]

He dropped on of my coins today that he's had for 1 year and 5 days. He logged both the grab and drop today, the drop with today's date and the grab postdated for 4/18/10. I deleted both of them which will hopefully remove credit for the find from his account.

[+WRASTRO]

He dropped on of my coins today that he's had for 1 year and 5 days. He logged both the grab and drop today, the drop with today's date and the grab postdated for 4/18/10. I deleted both of them which will hopefully remove credit for the find from his account.

You deleted the logs from the trackable page or from a cache you own? Which one? Either way you are adding bad form to bad form in my opinion. If you deleted a valid find log you are also violating the GS guidelines for cache owners.

[+WRASTRO]

The theory is the nefarious one takes a look at the cache page to see if there is anything to plunder. His look shows up in the cache audit log. If bugs/coins go missing shortly after that then one can perhaps draw a connection between the look and the missing travelers.

 

The only ones that can mark a traveler missing is the traveler owner or the cache owner it is in.

 

Just as I thought even if a cache is a premium only assumptions can be made about missing TBs. It would do nothing to truly prevent someone nefarious from taking them nor help in getting them put back into play.

 

Actually, the theory is that he isn't a premium member so then he can't look at the cache page and see what's in the cache. It therefore locks the person out. Now if he has already found the cache and decides to return there is nothing stopping that... but then it would be a guess that there are bugs in there rather than actual targeting.

 

Unfortunately, I think he is a premium member. He has visited my premium cache and signed the log. This cache has never never been a regular cache...

You do know that a PQ can be run to filter for caches that show as having trackables in them, right? You would never see a thing in the PMO audit log.

[+TotemLake]

He dropped on of my coins today that he's had for 1 year and 5 days. He logged both the grab and drop today, the drop with today's date and the grab postdated for 4/18/10. I deleted both of them which will hopefully remove credit for the find from his account.

You deleted the logs from the trackable page or from a cache you own? Which one? Either way you are adding bad form to bad form in my opinion. If you deleted a valid find log you are also violating the GS guidelines for cache owners.

Agreed this was cutting off the nose to spite the face. If he doesn't see it in his logs, he'll go out and seek it again or keep logging it until you grow weary of the game.

[+_Shaddow_]

He dropped on of my coins today that he's had for 1 year and 5 days. He logged both the grab and drop today, the drop with today's date and the grab postdated for 4/18/10. I deleted both of them which will hopefully remove credit for the find from his account.

You deleted the logs from the trackable page or from a cache you own? Which one? Either way you are adding bad form to bad form in my opinion. If you deleted a valid find log you are also violating the GS guidelines for cache owners.

 

Quite obviously on the trackable page. I don't think it's against the quidelines and I challenge you to back up your statement that it is. Re bad form, I would agree with you in almost all cases but this one is special. Are you supporting his actions?

 

He dropped on of my coins today that he's had for 1 year and 5 days. He logged both the grab and drop today, the drop with today's date and the grab postdated for 4/18/10. I deleted both of them which will hopefully remove credit for the find from his account.

You deleted the logs from the trackable page or from a cache you own? Which one? Either way you are adding bad form to bad form in my opinion. If you deleted a valid find log you are also violating the GS guidelines for cache owners.

Agreed this was cutting off the nose to spite the face. If he doesn't see it in his logs, he'll go out and seek it again or keep logging it until you grow weary of the game.

 

Hardly. And he'll never see it again. I have a big bag of deletes and I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

[+B+L]

I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Unless he likes to go back and admire his logs, I don't think deleting his logs will affect him at all. We delete our own logs when we are just dropping a trackable and our stats have never changed.

[+_Shaddow_]

I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Unless he likes to go back and admire his logs, I don't think deleting his logs will affect him at all. We delete our own logs when we are just dropping a trackable and our stats have never changed.

 

I think you're referencing deleting a note log to the cache page which doesn't affect the log on the trackable page (so the very thing you mention can be done). Honestly, I'm not sure deleting his logs on the trackable page will drop it from his stats or if a notice about the deletion will be forwarded like is done when a found it cache page log is deleted. But if not, at least I don't have to see it anymore when I look at the history of my trackable.

Edited April 24, 2011 by _Shaddow_

[+B+L]

I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Unless he likes to go back and admire his logs, I don't think deleting his logs will affect him at all. We delete our own logs when we are just dropping a trackable and our stats have never changed.

 

I think you're referencing deleting a note log to the cache page which doesn't affect the log on the trackable page (so the very thing you mention can be done). Honestly, I'm not sure deleting his logs on the trackable page will drop it from his stats or if a notice about the deletion will be forwarded like is done when a found it cache page log is deleted. But if not, at least I don't have to see it anymore when I look at the history of my trackable.

Yes, but I also seem to recall that deleting the actual trackable log also has no effect on the stats. There is a way to find out.

[+TotemLake]

Hardly. And he'll never see it again. I have a big bag of deletes and I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Then you truly misunderstand and underestimate the level of his obsession. It'll irritate you more than it will him. Guaranteed.

[+_Shaddow_]

Hardly. And he'll never see it again. I have a big bag of deletes and I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Then you truly misunderstand and underestimate the level of his obsession. It'll irritate you more than it will him. Guaranteed.

 

Your strong and potentially incorrect opinions are noted. I understand that he is OCD. Consider then the amount of irritation it would cause him each time I delete his log.

 

If you have a better action plan to deal with him, please share

[+TotemLake]

Hardly. And he'll never see it again. I have a big bag of deletes and I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Then you truly misunderstand and underestimate the level of his obsession. It'll irritate you more than it will him. Guaranteed.

 

Your strong and potentially incorrect opinions are noted. I understand that he is OCD. Consider then the amount of irritation it would cause him each time I delete his log.

 

If you have a better action plan to deal with him, please share

I actually know the guy better than you want to believe I do. I don't have a solution for you but if this is your game plan, you've done nothing but lowered yourself to his level. Good for you.

[+_Shaddow_]

Hardly. And he'll never see it again. I have a big bag of deletes and I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Then you truly misunderstand and underestimate the level of his obsession. It'll irritate you more than it will him. Guaranteed.

 

Your strong and potentially incorrect opinions are noted. I understand that he is OCD. Consider then the amount of irritation it would cause him each time I delete his log.

 

If you have a better action plan to deal with him, please share

I actually know the guy better than you want to believe I do. I don't have a solution for you but if this is your game plan, you've done nothing but lowered yourself to his level. Good for you.

 

I never suggested (or care) one way or another if or how much you know him. I am getting get the feeling that you were defending him though.

 

Though you singled me out for some reason as the one for the need of a solution, it's affecting a lot of people, including you.

 

And no, I am no where near his level.

[+TotemLake]

Hardly. And he'll never see it again. I have a big bag of deletes and I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Then you truly misunderstand and underestimate the level of his obsession. It'll irritate you more than it will him. Guaranteed.

 

Your strong and potentially incorrect opinions are noted. I understand that he is OCD. Consider then the amount of irritation it would cause him each time I delete his log.

 

If you have a better action plan to deal with him, please share

I actually know the guy better than you want to believe I do. I don't have a solution for you but if this is your game plan, you've done nothing but lowered yourself to his level. Good for you.

 

I never suggested (or care) one way or another if or how much you know him. I am getting get the feeling that you were defending him though.

 

Though you singled me out for some reason as the one for the need of a solution, it's affecting a lot of people, including you.

 

And no, I am no where near his level.

Let's get one thing very clear. I am not defending him.

 

What you're suggesting is merely tit for tat. That's lowering yourself to play head games with an extremely obsessesd person. You don't win at this game. You merely add to your frustration. It won't bother him as much you think it will. Not the least. This is how well I know him.

 

Second, let's get another thing clear. I did not single you out. I merely agreed the action you propose is not going to be as effective as you seem to believe it will be based on my years of knowing this man. Your proposed actions will only slow or halt it because he will notice is missing a Found TB in his logs. That's what started this whole issue to begin with. Appropriate action has already been taken by the right people and it seems to be slowly working its way to improvement.

 

Thirdly, yes it is affecting a lot of people, but don't take it upon yourself to include me. You don't know that for a fact and I never alluded to my being affected or not.

 

And now I'm singling you out. Go ahead and move forward with your plan.

[+_Shaddow_]

Hardly. And he'll never see it again. I have a big bag of deletes and I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Then you truly misunderstand and underestimate the level of his obsession. It'll irritate you more than it will him. Guaranteed.

 

Your strong and potentially incorrect opinions are noted. I understand that he is OCD. Consider then the amount of irritation it would cause him each time I delete his log.

 

If you have a better action plan to deal with him, please share

I actually know the guy better than you want to believe I do. I don't have a solution for you but if this is your game plan, you've done nothing but lowered yourself to his level. Good for you.

 

I never suggested (or care) one way or another if or how much you know him. I am getting get the feeling that you were defending him though.

 

Though you singled me out for some reason as the one for the need of a solution, it's affecting a lot of people, including you.

 

And no, I am no where near his level.

Let's get one thing very clear. I am not defending him.

 

What you're suggesting is merely tit for tat. That's lowering yourself to play head games with an extremely obsessesd person. You don't win at this game. You merely add to your frustration. It won't bother him as much you think it will. Not the least. This is how well I know him.

 

Second, let's get another thing clear. I did not single you out. I merely agreed the action you propose is not going to be as effective as you seem to believe it will be based on my years of knowing this man. Your proposed actions will only slow or halt it because he will notice is missing a Found TB in his logs. That's what started this whole issue to begin with. Appropriate action has already been taken by the right people and it seems to be slowly working its way to improvement.

 

Thirdly, yes it is affecting a lot of people, but don't take it upon yourself to include me. You don't know that for a fact and I never alluded to my being affected or not.

 

And now I'm singling you out. Go ahead and move forward with your plan.

 

Hardly tit for tat, that would be grabbing his trackables and holding them for more than a year.

 

You stated that you don't have a solution for me when you should be referencing a solution for all of us, so yes, you singled me out.

 

It's quite clear it's affecting you because you're in this forum going on about it; therefore it is even more obvious with every keystroke you post.

 

This is want needs to be made clear: your opinions have been noted, and are now re-noted. Perhaps you also have an obsession with your opinions or perhaps getting others to do things your way, which you clearly seem to think is the only way.

 

That sounds like a vague threat. I have gone ahead, am going ahead and will be going ahead. I'd be happy to listen and consider your advice, which I actually have already done. Maybe you should be more graceful when it's not taken.

[+TotemLake]

My concern is more what your actions will do to the folks waiting for the release of their TBs. IN thta sense, I can be considered affected.

 

You asked me for a solution and I said I didn't have one for you. Asked and answered. If you consider that singling you out... well can't help that.

 

Yet again, you're making assumptions with my statements and probably intentionally misreading into them. I've made no vague threats. I have directly stated your actions will slow down or halt the slow improvement taking place. So go ahead... move forward with them.

 

Your opinions are also duly noted, but I will defend myself against inaccurate statements such as defending someone, or making vague threats. Just because my opinion has been "duly" noted, doesn't mean I have to stop posting to debate your points. If this level of debate frustrates you...

 

And oh yah... delteing logs to spite him, is classic tit for tat.

Edited April 24, 2011 by TotemLake

[+_Shaddow_]

My concern is more what your actions will do to the folks waiting for the release of their TBs. IN thta sense, I can be considered affected.

 

You asked me for a solution and I said I didn't have one for you. Asked and answered. If you consider that singling you out... well can't help that.

 

Yet again, you're making assumptions with my statements and probably intentionally misreading into them. I've made no vague threats. I have directly stated your actions will slow down or halt the slow improvement taking place. So go ahead... move forward with them.

 

Your opinions are also duly noted, but I will defend myself against inaccurate statements such as defending someone, or making vague threats. Just because my opinion has been "duly" noted, doesn't mean I have to stop posting to debate your points. If this level of debate frustrates you...

 

Please feel free to share this effect that you think it might have on everyone. I'd be happy to reconsider if there is a good reason. So far you've approached this as if you are saving me from myself.

 

You were not asked for a solution. It was suggested that you come up with a better plan if you don't like this one.

 

What improvements? I haven't seen them nor have you explained them. If you can back up this claim then do so and I will certainly reconsider.

 

Doesn't frustrate me at all, I find you a curiosity and entertaining.

 

[edit for spelling]

Edited April 24, 2011 by _Shaddow_

[+_Shaddow_]

I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Unless he likes to go back and admire his logs, I don't think deleting his logs will affect him at all. We delete our own logs when we are just dropping a trackable and our stats have never changed.

 

I think you're referencing deleting a note log to the cache page which doesn't affect the log on the trackable page (so the very thing you mention can be done). Honestly, I'm not sure deleting his logs on the trackable page will drop it from his stats or if a notice about the deletion will be forwarded like is done when a found it cache page log is deleted. But if not, at least I don't have to see it anymore when I look at the history of my trackable.

Yes, but I also seem to recall that deleting the actual trackable log also has no effect on the stats. There is a way to find out.

 

Results seem to be verified

[+WRASTRO]

I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Unless he likes to go back and admire his logs, I don't think deleting his logs will affect him at all. We delete our own logs when we are just dropping a trackable and our stats have never changed.

 

I think you're referencing deleting a note log to the cache page which doesn't affect the log on the trackable page (so the very thing you mention can be done). Honestly, I'm not sure deleting his logs on the trackable page will drop it from his stats or if a notice about the deletion will be forwarded like is done when a found it cache page log is deleted. But if not, at least I don't have to see it anymore when I look at the history of my trackable.

Yes, but I also seem to recall that deleting the actual trackable log also has no effect on the stats. There is a way to find out.

 

Results seem to be verified

If you delete a retrieval log, that will delete the find from the person's count. Deleting a drop has no affect on the person's count.

[+TotemLake]

I had seen a post in January in another forum after much discussion with GC and him along with a WSGA officer that TBs from 09 were being unloaded. However, reading through more recent posts (upon your challenge), it appears the hoarding has started again. There is an assumption in place because his numbers aren't matching up again, presumably because COs and TBOs are now deleting his logs. Which again, was the original cause of this entire issue.

 

I understand the level of frustration and the need for action. Deletion of the logs merely becomes a self-inflicted wound in the foot and starts the entire mess all over again. Yes, he does go back and check on these logs and the numbers. He keeps a very detailed record of what he has picked up and dropped off. A mis-match causes him to go through the entire list of thousands of bugs until he figures out which one is missing. In the meantime, until he can meticulously reconcile which one it is, the drops stop. It is about the numbers for this person.

 

I don't have a solution to offer up for this level of obsession. That requires a professional. But it would appear from the beginnig and recent posts that deleting the logs has become part of the problem, and not a solution.

[+_Shaddow_]

I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Unless he likes to go back and admire his logs, I don't think deleting his logs will affect him at all. We delete our own logs when we are just dropping a trackable and our stats have never changed.

 

I think you're referencing deleting a note log to the cache page which doesn't affect the log on the trackable page (so the very thing you mention can be done). Honestly, I'm not sure deleting his logs on the trackable page will drop it from his stats or if a notice about the deletion will be forwarded like is done when a found it cache page log is deleted. But if not, at least I don't have to see it anymore when I look at the history of my trackable.

Yes, but I also seem to recall that deleting the actual trackable log also has no effect on the stats. There is a way to find out.

 

Results seem to be verified

If you delete a retrieval log, that will delete the find from the person's count. Deleting a drop has no affect on the person's count.

 

If I understand this correctly, to delete the stat credit delete the grab log. The only affect deleting the drop log has is to remove the drop log from the trackable page, it would still remain shown as being in the cache where it was logged. Also if a grab log is posted and drop log not (yet) posted, than deleting the grab log deletes the stat credit it but again doesn't affect its location and it's still shown to be in that person's possession.

 

Does anyone know: if a cacher continues to try and grab my trackable will GS back me up in a harassment complaint?

[+_Shaddow_]

I had seen a post in January in another forum after much discussion with GC and him along with a WSGA officer that TBs from 09 were being unloaded. However, reading through more recent posts (upon your challenge), it appears the hoarding has started again. There is an assumption in place because his numbers aren't matching up again, presumably because COs and TBOs are now deleting his logs. Which again, was the original cause of this entire issue.

 

I understand the level of frustration and the need for action. Deletion of the logs merely becomes a self-inflicted wound in the foot and starts the entire mess all over again. Yes, he does go back and check on these logs and the numbers. He keeps a very detailed record of what he has picked up and dropped off. A mis-match causes him to go through the entire list of thousands of bugs until he figures out which one is missing. In the meantime, until he can meticulously reconcile which one it is, the drops stop. It is about the numbers for this person.

 

I don't have a solution to offer up for this level of obsession. That requires a professional. But it would appear from the beginnig and recent posts that deleting the logs has become part of the problem, and not a solution.

 

Now this line of logic makes a lot more sense and I can see your position much clearer. I understand that here we need to be dealing with the disease rather than the person. But we shouldn't be slaves to and accessories in the crime. It's like taking a pill aches instead of removing the source of the pain. Being such a close acquaintance, can't you get him to go see someone? That would be the real solution to this issue. Or maybe get him fixated on something that doesn't affect so many people, like baseball stats. I'm far from an expert on OCD so save us some time and don't go off on my lack of knowledge and seriously help the rest of us understand what we can do. Doing nothing and being complacent is not a solution.

 

[edit for spelling]

Edited April 24, 2011 by _Shaddow_

[+TotemLake]

Does anyone know: if a cacher continues to try and grab my trackable will GS back me up in a harassment complaint?

Based on previous experiences with other cachers having issues with stalking cachers... no. This has caused some players to either delete their Found logs or change them to Notes so they weren't so easily pattern tracked.

 

That's not to say don't try. That's just an observation over the past few years.

Edited April 24, 2011 by TotemLake

[+WRASTRO]

I hope deleting his log irritates the heck out of him, a little return of all the irritation he's given to so many lately.

Unless he likes to go back and admire his logs, I don't think deleting his logs will affect him at all. We delete our own logs when we are just dropping a trackable and our stats have never changed.

 

I think you're referencing deleting a note log to the cache page which doesn't affect the log on the trackable page (so the very thing you mention can be done). Honestly, I'm not sure deleting his logs on the trackable page will drop it from his stats or if a notice about the deletion will be forwarded like is done when a found it cache page log is deleted. But if not, at least I don't have to see it anymore when I look at the history of my trackable.

Yes, but I also seem to recall that deleting the actual trackable log also has no effect on the stats. There is a way to find out.

 

Results seem to be verified

If you delete a retrieval log, that will delete the find from the person's count. Deleting a drop has no affect on the person's count.

 

If I understand this correctly, to delete the stat credit delete the grab log. The only affect deleting the drop log has is to remove the drop log from the trackable page, it would still remain shown as being in the cache where it was logged. Also if a grab log is posted and drop log not (yet) posted, than deleting the grab log deletes the stat credit it but again doesn't affect its location and it's still shown to be in that person's possession.

 

Does anyone know: if a cacher continues to try and grab my trackable will GS back me up in a harassment complaint?

Although there is no GS guideline that I am aware of regarding deleting logs related to trackables (my comment last night was about deleting logs for valid cache finds), I would suspect that repeated deletions of valid logs for retrieving and dropping trackabkes would not be looked upon in a positive way by GS.

 

And just to answer a previous question, I do not condone what this person has done. I also do not condone deleting logs in an attempt to get even or punish the person. I would like to see the whole sorry situation resolved so moving trackabkes in this area can be fun again. Deleting logs will only perpetuate the problem.

[+TotemLake]

I had seen a post in January in another forum after much discussion with GC and him along with a WSGA officer that TBs from 09 were being unloaded. However, reading through more recent posts (upon your challenge), it appears the hoarding has started again. There is an assumption in place because his numbers aren't matching up again, presumably because COs and TBOs are now deleting his logs. Which again, was the original cause of this entire issue.

 

I understand the level of frustration and the need for action. Deletion of the logs merely becomes a self-inflicted wound in the foot and starts the entire mess all over again. Yes, he does go back and check on these logs and the numbers. He keeps a very detailed record of what he has picked up and dropped off. A mis-match causes him to go through the entire list of thousands of bugs until he figures out which one is missing. In the meantime, until he can meticulously reconcile which one it is, the drops stop. It is about the numbers for this person.

 

I don't have a solution to offer up for this level of obsession. That requires a professional. But it would appear from the beginnig and recent posts that deleting the logs has become part of the problem, and not a solution.

 

Now this line of logic makes a lot more sense and I can see your position much clearer. I understand that here we need to be dealing with the disease rather than the person. But we shouldn't be slaves to and accessories in the crime. It's like taking a pill aches instead of removing the source of the pain. Being such a close acquaintance, can't you get him to go see someone? That would be the real solution to this issue. Or maybe get him fixated on something that doesn't affect so many people, like baseball stats. I'm far from an expert on OCD so save us some time and don't go off on my lack of knowledge and seriously help the rest of us understand what we can do. Doing nothing and being complacent is not a solution.

 

[edit for spelling]

I wish I had that kind of influence. Had I had any influence, it would have been implemented a long time back (and don't think I didn't try before this became the issue it is today). He's always been of a mind to do things his way. He's a nice guy in all respects except when he gains an obsession with something and then he can't let it go to my chagrin at times. One of my brothers was much the ssme way and family couldn't influence him either.

 

I agree we shouldn't be slaves and accessories to the situation and completely agree complacency isn't an answer either. It will take an incredible amount of patience and encouragement in his direction to do the right thing. I can only speak for myself and say I don't have the level it takes to do that alone.

Edited April 24, 2011 by TotemLake

[+_Shaddow_]

Alight, I've already deleted his grab log, nothing I can do about that now, even if I wanted to. This will be a learning experience and we'll see the reaction and that's when we will know one way or the other.

 

This situation is someone's responsibility to deal with. Some would say that it's GS's while they say it's not. You and WRASTRO have taken some responsibility here to deal with it. Either you two or GC take it further or I'm left to do what's within my power. That's extremely limited, deleting his log is all I've got.

[+TotemLake]

 

You and WRASTRO have taken some responsibility here to deal with it. Either you two or GC take it further or I'm left to do what's within my power. That's extremely limited, deleting his log is all I've got.

No. I've done what I could when I could and I said I couldn't deal with this alone. Brushing your hands and saying deleting logs is all you got isn't enough. It takes a mindset to change and positive action to move forward by everyone. It doesn't lay on the responsility of one or two people.

[+B+L]

Some would say that it's GS's while they say it's not.

If he has as many coins and TBs as he is alleged to have and GS's "interventions" have had no effect, why has his account not been suspended or even banned? That is really all GS can do in this situation.

 

The absurdity of the situation is best illustrated by the final two logs of this TB:

http://www.geocachin...aspx?id=1655305

[+W7WT]

Now you have me feeling bad. The XYL (wife, Arlene) and I are not very rounded cachers (mostly square). We don't do multis puzzles, coins, TB, FTF or night caches. I tried to make up for it by organizing the GPS accuracy game held in conjuction with the Spring Fling and GeoLuau. Also co-owner of the Kitsap County Challenge.

 

I didn't realize who you were talking about until the name came up. The GPS game was started in 2005 and I remember this nice young man helped us do some measuring and securing the game. He seemed like a very nice person and I feel sorry he and the rest of you are caught up in this so called fun game.

 

Yes, I realize this has nothing to do with the topic, and I can't offer any good suggestions. Dick

[+WRASTRO]

You and WRASTRO have taken some responsibility here to deal with it. Either you two or GC take it further or I'm left to do what's within my power. That's extremely limited, deleting his log is all I've got.

No. I've done what I could when I could and I said I couldn't deal with this alone. Brushing your hands and saying deleting logs is all you got isn't enough. It takes a mindset to change and positive action to move forward by everyone. It doesn't lay on the responsility of one or two people.

TL and I have no more responsibility than you or any other cacher to do what we can to try to get this long standing problem resolved. Quite a few people have attempted to influence the mindset of the errant cacher without success. Deleting logs won't help.

[+_Shaddow_]

 

You and WRASTRO have taken some responsibility here to deal with it. Either you two or GC take it further or I'm left to do what's within my power. That's extremely limited, deleting his log is all I've got.

No. I've done what I could when I could and I said I couldn't deal with this alone. Brushing your hands and saying deleting logs is all you got isn't enough. It takes a mindset to change and positive action to move forward by everyone. It doesn't lay on the responsility of one or two people.

 

You left us again. You're not alone in this, I'm not brushing my hands of anything. Since you know so much, share what is more. It doesn't take a mind set to get things done it takes action. And between you and me, I'm the only one apparently that is doing, or willing to do anything.

[+TotemLake]

Perhaps you missed it with all the posts so I'll reiterate...

 

It will take an incredible amount of patience and encouragement in his direction to do the right thing. I can only speak for myself and say I don't have the level it takes to do that alone.

 

Don't know where you're getting the idea I know so much. I just know enough what doesn't motivate him. Your action IMO is a shot in the foot and you seemed to have reasoned so in your previous post but with a backhanded swipe at who is responsisble for it. I refuse to accept your need for me to be responsible for another man's actions, including yours.

[+WRASTRO]

You and WRASTRO have taken some responsibility here to deal with it. Either you two or GC take it further or I'm left to do what's within my power. That's extremely limited, deleting his log is all I've got.

No. I've done what I could when I could and I said I couldn't deal with this alone. Brushing your hands and saying deleting logs is all you got isn't enough. It takes a mindset to change and positive action to move forward by everyone. It doesn't lay on the responsility of one or two people.

 

You left us again. You're not alone in this, I'm not brushing my hands of anything. Since you know so much, share what is more. It doesn't take a mind set to get things done it takes action. And between you and me, I'm the only one apparently that is doing, or willing to do anything.

Stop by the WSGA Forums to learn a bit more about who has been attempting to assist with this ongoing problem. I will state one more time that deleting logs will not help and is more likely to prolong the issue. Trying to strike back as a means of revenge isn't the right answer. I don't know what the right answer is but I am certain attempting to punish is not it.