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ScottScott

Unwritten "Rules"

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Hi all

 

I would like to start this topic as I have been caching for just under a year and would like to have some general questions answered. The idea is so that newbies like me can have a bit of guidance from the more experience caches out there as to what is allowed and what is frowned upon.

 

I have attended a few events and as a "newbie" I have heard a few cachers say "I cannot believe he/she did that". Yes this is all those juicy stories we love to hear and share at events, but this is not the idea behind this topic. The idea is guidance.

 

I will kick it off.

 

Scenario 1. There are a lot of cachers that cache as a team. More than one person per user id. One member of the team goes away on a business trip to India and will only be there for a few days. Obviously he/she would like to do as many caches as possible. Whilst he/she is on their trip the other member attends an event locally in SA. Can you log both caches on the same day in two different countries or even to different provinces?

 

Any unwritten rules regarding this ????

 

Edited by ScottScott

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There is no problem with that scenario. If the team wants to split up and maximize there finds they can. Heck they can have 3 different members in 3 different countries caching and log there finds.

 

Personally i think a team should also have there own individual IDs. Then team finds can be logged on the team ID and personal finds and be logged on there own IDs. Eventually people will leave the team and want to keep the caches they found.

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:ph34r:

 

Senario 1: They way I work it is that there is only one GPS per geocaching ID. So you can't cache without that GPS?

 

Senario 2: You shouldn't replace a cache unless you have found it before AND you have the permission of the cache owner.

 

Senario 3: Be polite and wait for the FTF to log the cache before your do.

 

Senario 4: Don't pick up or grab a bug until it has been dropped into a cache. If it has taken too long, send the person an email.

 

Senario 5: If you can't write your name on the log, you can't log the cache. Finding the plastic does not count.

 

Enough for now !!

 

Excellent topic.

 

:ph34r:

Edited by Noddy

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Good point..... but rightfully so, they have attended two separate caches in two separate countries and if the log books are signed I assume it is OK to log it as such. I would generally like to see it written as Mr Cacher from Team Cacher and Cacher found the cache while Mrs Cacher logs Event so-and-so. It is much harder to control teams as they generally form as one and then find themselves caching apart most of the time. I was thinking that when my partner finally becomes part of my life, we would keep separate cacher names, and form a whole new team to log our actual finds together. Or you could always just PAF the wrong member of the team and ask them for help on the cache in India. It is a matter of choice, I know of some teams that cache alone while the other member is at home... I have in fact called a cacher from home and directed them to a cache I have never done... using Google Earth as my guide... I have actually found a few this way, just by sending co-ords and a brief description of what to look for and using street view for my own guidance where my finder is not able to give a good enough description. I still have to find quite a few of them caches myself.... and even though I directed someone to it, I would much rather write my own name on the log one day when I find it.... Remember that this is a game for fun and relaxation for some, purely numbers for another. Team ABC may have 750 finds, where mom dad and 12 year old Charlie have been to every cache together, while Team XYZ also has 750 where each member has only found 250 caches each... But you are more likely going to enjoy the stories that Team ABC would have to tell than that of member X from Team XYZ. I myself have done events where 40+ cachers descend on a cache and if you had to ask me where that cache was.... mmm well that is gonna be hard... I just signed the book and probably still cannot tell you where the cache was... LoL. Individually I know almost every cache I have found...

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Point 5: If the logsheet is full, make a note of it and send a pic and a note to the owner. At their discretion they may or may not allow you to log a find. A logsheet that is full in a container should be left and if you can add another clean logsheet, that would be great. If there is physical evidence of a logsheet hidden in a container I would deem the cache found, however a replacement sheet would be acceptable. Same goes for a missing logbook from a clearly marked container, if it says Geocache on it or has a stash note, clearly stating it is a Geocache, then I would consider it found, again replacing a logsheet or adding some written form of your visit would be OK. It all comes down to the owner I guess.... Some form of leeway needs to be given for things that may be beyond our control at the time... You get to know some owners and even though you know a cache is still there and you would love to get a find for a dear friend who is with you, you just cannot get the rusted bolt apart without the right tools... and knowing that there is space on the logsheet... it is just very frustrating.... So you sometimes have to find yourself a little Chapel and go pray that one day the owner will maintain his cache... :) Cause even though it is found... no indication of required tools was given to get the logsheet out.... So then the found cache is actually unfound... mmm

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and Wazat gets personal ......

Edited by Noddy

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I went up a mountain to put in a log book I forgot... hee hee

 

What size spanner do I need, I think I might have to do some maintenance for you... :rolleyes:

Edited by Wazat

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When my husband travels on business, he waymarks and geocaches using one of our units. If by chance there's something here locally that I want to find, I don't hesitate to do so.

It's a very very rare occasion that he finds something without me, so we're still keeping the joint account.

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Now Now let’s keep it to a guidance topic and not a sh*t stirring Topic

 

 

 

Just elaborating... See in this case I am willing to maintain a cache for the owner... unwritten rule... :ph34r:

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So far we have:

 

1. Can a single userid log two caches on the same day in two countries or provinces due to the fact that it is a team?

 

2. Can you replace a cache if you have not found it before AND do you need to have the permission of the cache owner?

 

3. Do you need to be polite and wait for the FTF to log the cache before your do?

4. Don't pick up or grab a bug until it has been dropped into a cache. If it has taken too long, send the person an email.

 

5. If you can't write your name on the log, you can't log the cache. Finding the plastic does not count.

 

New

 

6. What is an acceptable time period within which a FTF should be logged?

 

7. Can you claim a FTF if the owner is present whilst you do the cache?

 

8. Can you claim a FTF if you had to phone the owner for a hint or help whilst you do the cache?

 

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Unwritten rules are just that...unwritten. I think you must do whatever floats your boat. Caching is not a competition. I like some of the suggestions here but feel they are just opinions. I personally try to keep as relaxed a view on all issues as I can. For me, caching is about finding places, not containers. I don't log a find if I don't sign the log, but don't mind if others dont play that way. I get pleasure out of others getting pleasure from my caches. Period. I don't stress about the rest. What would it achieve?

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All down to the owner... I guess.

 

And don't worry, even oldies make some mistakes. Don't take for granted that 3 or 4 DNF's mean it is gone and reason for you to place a micro in it's place.... those 3 or 4 DNF's mean that those cachers are just as bad as you are on finding the cache that was still there...

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OK...

 

I understand that we all do this for fun but even in friendly events of any kind there are some guidelines.

 

Here is my 2c.

1. It is up to the team, if they are happy with it so be it. Their account their stats.

 

2. Yes you must have permission from the owner, if the owner is unavailable well unlucky for you. If the owner is happy for you to replace or do maintenance on his cache then it does not make a difference if you have found it before or not. I can understand the idea about a previous finder doing the maintenance or the replacing as he has the knowledge of the exact location, cache size and hide, but this is up to the cache owner. The owner will maybe say no to a cacher with 2 finds but yes to a cacher with 1000 finds, but up to the cache owner. (I have replaced a cache without the owner's permission as I did not know any better hence this topic)

 

3. Yes you should wait. It is only fair and it is nice to have the FTF as the first log on the cache page. BUT this is closely linked to number 6. (I have logged a find before the FTF was logged on a cache. Not a happy response received and I now understand why. Newbie mistake hence this topic)

 

4. I agree you should not. It is nice for the bug or coin to follow the correct path if and where possible. If you do not receive a response on the PM or e-mail then well you have done your bit and log this on the TB or GC page.

 

5. Well Well. This one is not as black and white. What if the cache has a soaked log book or you do not have a pen on you. (I love doing this must be old age). I believe a signature in the log book or a photo of you holding the cache container at GZ should be the two options. Who does not have a camera phone or even a camera on the GPS'r or a camera in the caching bag these days? The pic does not need to be posted on the cache page as this could spoil the cache, but the pic could be e-mail to the owner and with his permission the cache could be logged. No response from the owner should lead to a found log as the cachers did his bit.

 

6. As soon as possible !! Max 24 hours. I have made a special detour for a FTF on a cache before only to see it has been found 2 days ago but still not logged. Over 100km detour. Needless to say I was very happy to open the logbook. If you cannot log it within the 24 hour period (in the bush without signal, no internet (gotta love Telkom) or Work commitments) please use a PAF and ask them to write a note on the cache page. " Hi all. This is a friendly notice that the FTF on this cache was done but Cachers at 00:00 on 1 April 2012 and he will log the cache as soon as possible". The note can be deleted as soon as the FTF is logged. At the end the logbook will prove the find.

 

7. No. I understand the owner "never" help you in any way shape or form.:ph34r: (Cold Hot Cooler)

 

8. No. It is a FTF you will need to do this on your own or a group without the owner.

 

Opinions Opinions Opinions this is all it is. PLEASE do not kill me for having them.:blink:

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Unwritten rules are just that...unwritten. I think you must do whatever floats your boat. Caching is not a competition. I like some of the suggestions here but feel they are just opinions. I personally try to keep as relaxed a view on all issues as I can. For me, caching is about finding places, not containers. I don't log a find if I don't sign the log, but don't mind if others dont play that way. I get pleasure out of others getting pleasure from my caches. Period. I don't stress about the rest. What would it achieve?

 

Indeed CapeDoc - whatever blows your hair back is fine by me. One of the reasons I love this game is that there are no rules! :P I also get tremendous enjoyment from people finding my caches and I love reading the logs. My pet hate though is TFTC!!! :(

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Surely the guidelines (maybe better wording that unwritten rules) for newbies like me cannot just be "whatever blows your hair back is fine" or "whatever floats your boat". Would no guidelines not ultimately lead to chaos? There are very strict guildelines regarding placeing a cache or hosting an event, but once it is published then it is a free for all?

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Surely the guidelines (maybe better wording that unwritten rules) for newbies like me cannot just be "whatever blows your hair back is fine" or "whatever floats your boat". Would no guidelines not ultimately lead to chaos? There are very strict guildelines regarding placeing a cache or hosting an event, but once it is published then it is a free for all?

 

Perhaps we are talking about caching etiquette here?

 

These are all conventions / unwritten rules / guidelines - its just a matter of semantics.

But it is the way we each play the game that makes it enjoyable for others.

 

Generally I agree with all of the suggestions made so far.

i.e.

 


  •  
  • Wait for the FTF to be logged if you are not the FTF.
  • If you are the FTF, log it pronto to save others chasing for nothing.
  • Don't replace a cache without the owner's permission and directions (whether you have found it or not).
  • Repair a cache when you can (e.g. dry it, add an additional logsheet, add a bit of duct tape).
  • If the log is un-signable and you cannot add a new logsheet/book, you must drop a dated calling card to be able to claim the cache.

 

These are the usual things I come across in my caching.

 

My 2c

 

PT

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Surely the guidelines (maybe better wording that unwritten rules) for newbies like me cannot just be "whatever blows your hair back is fine" or "whatever floats your boat". Would no guidelines not ultimately lead to chaos? There are very strict guildelines regarding placeing a cache or hosting an event, but once it is published then it is a free for all?

Well, for me, pretty much....yes. If by "free for all" you mean "within the normal geocaching rules as stipulated by Groundspeak". It is the unwritten stuff that I am talking about, the so called "etiquette". Or the opinions of others. Thats the bit I dont get my knickers in a knot about. If I log a cache before the FTF or if someone logs before my FTF.....oops, sorry didn't know it was an issue to you and I, personally don't care. I do hope you enjoyed the location and the fun while you were there though.

 

As long as you stick to the written rules, you do fine by me.

 

I too hate "TFTC". If I hate a cache, I just say so.

Edited by CapeDoc

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The problem with some people is that they have not got all the Technology to log their finds on the fly, they may also be way away from home and will only log their find a day or two later.... If you are chasing a FTF and one such person finds it, no need to get all upset, these things happen... live with it. I have driven a round trip of 700km, just for 3 FTF's. I missed 2 and got one... I am not going to throw all my toys out the cot just cause it wasn't logged on the site already... I was beaten fair and square... the Logbook in the cache proved it... Shrug it off and face it like a man... FTF's are great... but if you miss it, tough... And if it isn't logged online by the time you log your find, log anyway, doesn't matter if the FTF cacher is second or third or fourth to log, that cacher is the only one that can say they were FTF... If they are in a rush to get a FTF, maybe they want to be in a rush to log it on the site... if not be happy with your log been 2nd or 3rd....

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Oh and TFTC, I hope meant, Too Flabbergasted To Comment. :laughing:

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The thread's intent was to create a short list of the "non-enforceable caching rules" or "caching etiquette", which you usually pick up through experience. I also hate millions of rules and over-regulation but can see the value of this for new cachers.

 

Differences in opinion seem to be along the line of "practical" vs. "philosophical" issues, i.e. issues such as maintenance assistance are no brainers but things that don't really impact on the game are variable and subjective.

 

Things I'd list:

For finds

 

· 1. No physical cache log, no find.

 

· 2. If the log cannot be signed (full or wet) and you cannot add a new log sheet/book, you must drop a dated calling card to be able to claim the cache.

 

· 3. In general cachers value an online log that shows some appreciation, even when expressing some disapproval. A "TFTC" only is impolite and an empty log is plain rude.

 

· 4. Don't replace a missing cache without the owner's permission and directions (whether you have found it or not).

 

· 5. Pay attention to how the cache was hidden to ensure you can replace it exactly where/how you found it.

 

· 6. Repair a cache when you can (e.g. dry it, add an additional log sheet, add a bit of duct tape).

 

· 7. TBs and GCs should be logged and placed ASAP.

 

· 8. "Disappearing" trackables is a crime against humanity! Note missing trackables (listed for a cache but not in the cache) ASAP to help the owner track it down.

9. Don't pick up or grab a trackable until it has been dropped into a cache. If it has taken too long, send the person an email. (because this can impact on the distance/route of the TB)

 

For hides

· 1. Maintain your caches! This is your obligation to other cachers – think carefully about caches far from home (and allow people to help you if necessary).

 

· 2. Nothing beats experience. Wait until you've found 50-100 caches before you start hiding your own. (this is obviously debatable, but I think it makes for better caches)

 

· 3. Be especially careful where you hide caches that will be able to accommodate trackables as this could mean that more than just the cache container is lost if it's muggled.

 

In general (for old and new cachers) – don't be self righteous. Calvin (& Hobbes) said it best: "A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day." :)

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I think something I'd like to add - maintain hides of cachers who have either stopped caching or moved town/country.

 

This is a big issue here in the Arabian Gulf. Some really great caches in place at excellent locations - but cahcers have either stopped (it's a little boring caching for 5 odd years when there are only a few hundred caches to find) or moved.

 

So rather than letting the cache =be archived and having to place a new one in the same location - just maintain it - I keep a few spare logbooks, small penciles and a container or two in my caching bag.

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Please log a DNF if you do not find a cache! Cache owners need this information to know if there is a potential problem, and nobody will think less of you if you do. (If I look at the statistics, there are a few cachers who are extremely good searchers AND extremely lucky, because they always find every cache!)

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, there are a few cachers who are extremely good searchers AND extremely lucky, because they always find every cache!)

And then there is me - I guess being blind comes from being a rugby ref too? :D

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Please log a DNF if you do not find a cache! Cache owners need this information to know if there is a potential problem, and nobody will think less of you if you do. (If I look at the statistics, there are a few cachers who are extremely good searchers AND extremely lucky, because they always find every cache!)

 

That would be interesting, what is the highest number of caches between DNF's I remember last year I did quite a bit. There will be a few who have not logged DNF's but for those who do....

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Pet hate.... Copy and paste logs in all the caches you do for the day.... I like to see something said about my cache rather than a whole breakdown of the day's caching... only to see, TFTC at the end of a paragraph half the page long about other caches... Makes me feel like deleting logs, honestly.... I don't mind the odd reference to another cache on the way to mine, but really don't want to know about all the other caches... and looking at all the other caches to find the same log in each.... Part of placing caches for me is to get a response from finders on my cache... On their experience at the cache itself...

 

This has been discussed at a few events I have been to and the general consensus seems to be what is the point...

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But that is the point.....there is a manner you would like cachers to conduct themselves when doing your caches, so listen to what other cachers have to say, so that you can try cache in harmony.

 

B)

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May the force be with you... LoL

 

Logs that go like:

 

Cache 9 of 79 for the day

 

We started off our day and got stuck in mud for half the morning at XYZ cache, but after been pulled out we were on our way again. Team member A found the cache quickly at cache ABC. So on to the next one, where we stopped for Lunch, Team member 2 ordered extra fries with his burger, while I settled for a Dagwood. After lunch we went to cache DEF where we were attacked by mosquitoes. Blah blah blah. ... enjoyed supper... blah blah blah... our 16th cache for the day.

 

Cache #9 of 79 - TFTC (sorry if your cache never got mentioned between lunch and supper... after all this writing I forgot what your cache was like)

 

CTRL C ---> CTRL V

 

In all 79 caches, the same story....

Is this just to get the badges up? Just pure laziness, or were the other caches just not grabbing your attention enough... Look I do not mind a story on a cache page, but I would really like more emphasis placed on the actual cache. I have seen plenty TFTC's on caches, or even a smiley face. Great. Says a lot about the cache itself.... A description doesn't have to be a whole essay, just a line or two... I know some people who just cannot help writing books about caches (Hello GerhardoosMPsa) but it is always rewarding to see a positive feedback on your caches...

 

Just my opinion.

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But that is the point.....there is a manner you would like cachers to conduct themselves when doing your caches, so listen to what other cachers have to say, so that you can try cache in harmony.

 

Well said :)

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Wazat, one can never please the world. On the one side a cacher will thank me for writing a long log and the next cacher will write me an e-mail me with “Please keep your log short, it is hard to read your 9 logs”.

 

I do not care too much about cachers replacing my caches. If I do maintenance and I found that he was wrong then I will remove the replacement cache but I am not going to jump up and down and/or deleting the logs. I also will not inform him and I will try not to stick my finger in his eye. I actually encourage cachers to replace my caches if they are sure that they are gone and two or more DNF’s were found. I appreciate the replacement and the effort the cacher made more than a blue DNF.

 

What is more irritating is that some cachers are now trying to get their logs longer than mine for the sake of the badge. I have only one word on average to get to the top level. But some guys also wants to get there so they take a short cut - they write a complete story and copy and paste it into more than one of the caches I owe. That was a massive blunder from their side. They do not know me that well, I will respond and I will react. This is where I loose interest and I delete the notification e-mails without even reading them. Bottom line is that this copy and paste is actually the same as a TFTC – it adds no value. For heaven’s sake rather do a TFTC log. It is easier on the eyes and my patience can tolerate this and I will accept it like it is. All my logs are different and I am proud to say that – copy and paste is not my style.

 

But soon I will pay these chaps a visit and then it is PAYBACK TIME. I will do the longest log ever and this cache visitor will receive a copy and a paste on all of his hides in the future. The only difference is that it is not where it will stop. With my second visit and third visit and fourth visit the logs will be the same than the first visit. I hope he reads this comment and I hope that he will write me e-mails quickly before I get to his caches, which is on my plan for the end of the month. To say the truth the log is already written – I must just get to his caches. That is how I do things, you do it to me and I return the favour. Hopefully he will not like it and hopefully he will think about his logs. Maybe he will be learning something. To write e-mails to the ”copy and paste” cachers and to complain about it on the forum is like water on the back of a duck. Feeling and experiencing “copy and paste” logs on your own cache, as a returned favour is much more of an impact than empty words and reading. I do things different but I do get results quickly.

 

In the beginning of caching I was like a loaded gun and I was ready to jump on top of a cache owner. During the years I chilled a bit. I do things unconventional and yes I am sometimes very nasty but I will not waste time with e-mails.

 

However, the most difficult part of caching today is to arrive at a signboard on a corner and it does not show you anything and you stand there after finding the cache in 2 seconds wondering what you are going to say in your log. This is hell for anyone that wants to write something positive about this cache. My true feeling is “TFTC”. But I am also guilty – some of my caches are not that great and if a guy logged a “TFTC” than I accept it like it is.

 

Now we get to the one that are bothering some cachers and they are too afraid to speak their mind. I always love to open Pandora’s box to see what comes out of it. I have different rules of etiquette and my mind does work different. But this is the pleasure of life – we are not the same. Our culture and beliefs, teachers, parents, experiences, background and religion, the way that you grown up made you unique and you should be proud of it. The hard part is to accept others, which is different from you and to tolerate their beliefs. I noticed that most cachers believe that a cache must be published before a first to find. I am thinking much wider and broader than this little window. To me this is not a hard and fast rule but it depend on the owner and I will dance the way he beats the drum.

 

My rules are simple. If the cache is in an urban area where there is a chance that other cachers can find it then I will not allow any cacher to be with me when it is stashed. If it is in an isolated spot with no cachers around then I feel it is stupid not to allow a FTF on the cache. If a cacher/s is with me then he will not log a HTH but he will be given the chance to search for it. If he claims it as a FTF then so be it and if he wants to log a HTH or leave it for a next cacher then so be it. I am not going to force him to do it my way; I leave that decision to him based on what he feels is right or wrong at that moment. The bottom line is that I am the cache owner and I make the rules. I am the only one accountable for that cache and I am accountable for the maintenance of such. But with full accountability the power is given to me for the decision and no one else can direct or dictate the FTF rules, unless it is on private property or it is misleading and cachers can be hurt without a warning on the listing.

 

But it is going much further than this. If I have 4 cachers with me and they are driving big 4x4’s at a emission rate of 180mg/km and we are 150 km away from home what is the effect if they all have to come back to search for the cache as a FTF? They know that the cache was stashed and they will keep an eye on the listing and the chance is high that they will find it first. This calculates to more than 160 kg of stuff into Mother Nature. Do it ten times and you have 1.6 tons of co2 in the air just because you want to apply the rule of “First publishing before a FTF”. I am not prepared to pay the price of 160 kg of co2. With my way it is a saving in co2. In real terms this is a saving of more than 90 litre of diesel, which is also a scares resource. In rand terms a saving of R820 for the three cachers to find that FTF, excluding the wear and tear. So in my madness there are some techniques and something different than a strict rule. At present as a team we have done more than 100 000 km of caching which amounts to about 18 tons of co2 released and if there is a technique to reduce this amount then I will find it and I will use it. We are going to make use of a two wheeler soon, not only to save money but to save something else which is important to me. I am not going to stop caching but I will look at ways to reduce the impact even if it is slight. Does this answer your question? Let us see what is next in this Pandora’s box. G

Edited by gerhardoosMPsa

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Scott Scott what have you opened up here... LoL. *Runs for the hills (A FTF awaits me)*

 

Another point, on micro's or nano caches, if you notice a logsheet is near the end of it's space, please inform the cache owner thereof. I was 10 meters from a cache of mine the other day, but a bridge was washed away and I was on my way out for dinner, and was not wanting to slide down muddy riverbanks. I have not had any problems with the cache and left it with the sound knowledge that the cache is probably OK, or so I thought. I get back home the next day to find someone had logged it earlier in the day stating that the logsheet is full.

 

Although I plan on returning there in a few weeks, I was pretty upset that I didn't go check on it right then... And now although I had plans on going to the area, maybe even this weekend, but I have to cancel due to a back injury I picked up.

 

I see some owners place a logsheet in with a note near the end to contact the owner should the number of logs reach that point. I like that idea but still if you see a logsheet is almost full make mention of it, it might help the next cacher who comes along to be prepared, with a spare logsheet. This is where, if I don't have a logsheet spare, I take a pic of the cache and full logsheet and send it to the owner to claim my find. I know that it is against the Groundspeak rules to have alternate logging requirements, but I for one will accept a picture of the full logsheet, the cache container and the cacher at the location as a claim.

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......

Cache #9 of 79 - TFTC (sorry if your cache never got mentioned between lunch and supper... after all this writing I forgot what your cache was like)

 

CTRL C ---> CTRL V

 

In all 79 caches, the same story....

.......

I felt sorely tempted this week to delete the logs and ask the cacher to rather just put a TFTC on the four caches he logged of mine with the same drivel but making no reference to the cache itself. The log actually served no purpose. I wonder how many of the caches logged on that day were #909 because each of the logs says the same: 91 to go to reach 1000!

The verbosity badge is not worth alienating the caching community.

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......

Cache #9 of 79 - TFTC (sorry if your cache never got mentioned between lunch and supper... after all this writing I forgot what your cache was like)

 

CTRL C ---> CTRL V

 

In all 79 caches, the same story....

.......

I felt sorely tempted this week to delete the logs and ask the cacher to rather just put a TFTC on the four caches he logged of mine with the same drivel but making no reference to the cache itself. The log actually served no purpose. I wonder how many of the caches logged on that day were #909 because each of the logs says the same: 91 to go to reach 1000!

The verbosity badge is not worth alienating the caching community.

 

Sadly if it is for a badge... I think it is maybe time to throw an event..... The cache finder quiz... Lets see who remembers what about the caches they have done. And then hand out badges... real ones... with shiny pins and ribbons... :ph34r:

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I am glad that someone is responding after this boulder was dropped in the little bush.

 

I also believe that one specific cacher that resorted to “copy and paste” techniques is reading this forum so I am sure we converted one “copy and paste” cacher. This made me angry. Just recently I visited his caches and I logged different logs on them. But yet two weeks later he visited my caches with more than 15 “copy and paste” logs. For this cacher - Please remove your logs and log a TFTC if you have nothing good to say or rather say “This is a stupid cache” or anything you want to say. It is part of our German culture to be open.

 

We as a team do like straightforward people that say want they mean to say. I have more than 80 caches and I will not enjoy copy and paste on my caches no more. We as a team will not accept it any longer; it is our fault if we do accept it or we do tolerate it. Only we can change this. So I make it your problem. It can become the order of the day if we do not call “STOP” right now. If you do not change it quickly then I will punish you with extremely long logs with the difference that they are all the same. A WORD OF CAUTION. Cachers are extremely intelligent human beings and they will quickly realised who is the guilty team/s if they find my “copy and paste” logs on your cache hides. Be careful – this copy and paste logs could back fire on your own hides. They could use my extremely long “copy and paste” log for logging their own cache finds.

 

We are planning to get to Bloemfontein with a group of cachers of more than 80 caches per person. There are about 7 people in this group. I am sure Oom Louwtjie will not enjoy reading the same log 560 times. My challenge is to write 80 to a 100 logs without resorting to TFTC. I am looking forward to the caches but the logging is going to take some times but out of respect for the cache owner/s I will try my best to do a good log on all of them.

 

Now we are going to bring the house down, forget about the boulder in the bush this time. Wazat, please run for the hills. This time there will be many multi caches waiting. I am still waiting for a response from the cacher at the Durban event that had a lot to say about my ways and the way I do things. We are discussing rules and etiquette so this is the place where the gloves do come off to get to a workable solution. Please come out of the closet. Geocaching is a small world and many cachers do know me - certain things do come around.

 

This is not a geocaching rule but a normal acceptable practise - if you have a problem with a cacher or anybody else then you need to face him/her or you need to deal with e-mails on a one to one basis. To postpone such an issue is not good. It will grow and you need to kill it while it is still small. If you have a problem with your wife you resolved it quietly and behind close doors with respect to each other and you get to workable solution based on mutual agreement - screaming at your wife in public is not a workable solution. The same with geocaching - to discuss a person behind his back at an event while complaining about etiquette is conflicting in itself. In this instance my name was mentioned in the public at an event where I was not present. So it is now in public domain and you now need to come to this forum and explain yourself. Private e-mails are no longer an option and the issue cannot be resolved privately. We have many cachers at this forum and they will act as referees and judges and I am sure they will find a middle ground. If you know me well you will understand that I am a straight forward and a very simplistic person that are not scared to face any issues or anyone or any situation. I only fear God himself and it is the only One I do not face or challenge as He alone have all the answers. My next move will be to face you directly if you do not resolve it here. But I will not do it aggressively neither will I challenge you in public as you have done. I will ask to have a word with you in private as grown ups will do at an event. Sooner or later we will meet and because I do not leave issues we will deal with it. If you convince me that I am wrong then I will shake your hand and I will apologize but if you are wrong I expect the same from you. If we are both wrong then we will have a beer and a laugh and do some more caching together. All part of the fun to be alive and to enjoy life to the fullest. I am not angry but I do love issues even if it is tough. :) G.

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Eish, have I opened a can of worms?

 

In my original post, I mentioned a few logs bundled together... it is not only one cacher... I can name a few. But originally it was just to make a small point. A series of caches was found. The owner of one of them was happy that their cache was found and upon opening the log after the email notification was very disappointed to see there was a whole paragraph of other stuff and not about their cache. It was from Yay, my cache has been found to WTF??? Been new at placing caches they asked if the log is valid. As it is I also had caches with the same logs in... It was sort of an anti-climax to them that they go into the trouble to hide the cache and then get irrelevant feedback on it... It was back to basics... to explain that the cache will draw other cachers and they will most likely post a more relevant log, one pertaining to the cache rather than anything but...

 

Unfortunately we all go through this, we all get people logging their finds with a simple copy and past... As cache owners we have to bear with it I guess. But you try explain it to a person, new to the game, and their first cache or two has nothing about their cache in it... I hid my first cache a few days after starting, I think I had been through 100 or so logs on other peoples caches and liked the comments... I thought that would be cool... I would like to see what people would say if I placed a cache... luckily back in those days there were stories about the cache... short and sweet. Now and then a long log would come through, but it was always about the cache... It made hides fun...

 

But now you get a newbie with one or two hides and nothing said in the log... just a copy and paste of the finders day of caching... Take it with a pinch of salt I said, but the more I think of it afterward, the more it makes me realise that that this new cacher might just have thought, that is it... not going to bother placing caches, it was not worth my while for logs with no substance...

 

I don't mean to open a can of worms on this, but it is clearly not the best way to log caches. For the owner it is a pleasure to read a log even a short one, just to say how they enjoyed or did not enjoy the cache. It is a basis for future placement. I have hidden some with wow factor, and some without... but it is all a test to see where to next... I watch them to see what is appealing and what isn't and from there I plan the next big cache... copy and paste doesn't help much... constructive logs of appraisal or criticism are much more rewarding... Even for me after 130 odd hides.... A newbie hider would love to have a log with more than a TFTC or Copy & Paste...

 

I grew accustomed to seeing this and sort of shrugged it off. But it was this query by a newbie that made me think...

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Ok - We get it. Copy + Paste = Not Good.

 

I myself am guilty of this and sometimes after doing about 30 caches in a day the logging seems to be the longest part, but that is no excuse and I will stop this practise as I can understand the frustration it can create for the owners of the caches. (See how helpful communication can be !!!)

 

I thinks I have done this to some of Wazat's and other owners caches in Newcastle - Sorry guys, hope you accept my apology. :anicute:

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Now we are going to bring the house down, forget about the boulder in the bush this time. Wazat, please run for the hills. This time there will be many multi caches waiting. I am still waiting for a response from the cacher at the Durban event that had a lot to say about my ways and the way I do things. We are discussing rules and etiquette so this is the place where the gloves do come off to get to a workable solution. Please come out of the closet. Geocaching is a small world and many cachers do know me - certain things do come around.

 

This is not a geocaching rule but a normal acceptable practise - if you have a problem with a cacher or anybody else then you need to face him/her or you need to deal with e-mails on a one to one basis. To postpone such an issue is not good. It will grow and you need to kill it while it is still small. If you have a problem with your wife you resolved it quietly and behind close doors with respect to each other and you get to workable solution based on mutual agreement - screaming at your wife in public is not a workable solution. The same with geocaching - to discuss a person behind his back at an event while complaining about etiquette is conflicting in itself. In this instance my name was mentioned in the public at an event where I was not present. So it is now in public domain and you now need to come to this forum and explain yourself. Private e-mails are no longer an option and the issue cannot be resolved privately. We have many cachers at this forum and they will act as referees and judges and I am sure they will find a middle ground. If you know me well you will understand that I am a straight forward and a very simplistic person that are not scared to face any issues or anyone or any situation. I only fear God himself and it is the only One I do not face or challenge as He alone have all the answers. My next move will be to face you directly if you do not resolve it here. But I will not do it aggressively neither will I challenge you in public as you have done. I will ask to have a word with you in private as grown ups will do at an event. Sooner or later we will meet and because I do not leave issues we will deal with it. If you convince me that I am wrong then I will shake your hand and I will apologize but if you are wrong I expect the same from you. If we are both wrong then we will have a beer and a laugh and do some more caching together. All part of the fun to be alive and to enjoy life to the fullest. I am not angry but I do love issues even if it is tough. :) G.

 

Hi Gerhard

 

The idea behind this thread is to create some guideline for newbies. Something you can tell a newbie to go and read on the forum. Keep on adding topics as this is what the thread is all about, but please can we deal with personal

issues between cachers in a different thread or manner. I value and appreciate your input but would not like to see this thread become the area where geocachers attack one and another or try and resolve personal issues.

 

Trust me if this was the place to resolve personal issues I have with some cachers I would make your longest log look like a TFTC. :)

 

Hope you understand where I am coming from.

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Now we get to the one that are bothering some cachers and they are too afraid to speak their mind. I always love to open Pandora’s box to see what comes out of it. I have different rules of etiquette and my mind does work different. But this is the pleasure of life – we are not the same. Our culture and beliefs, teachers, parents, experiences, background and religion, the way that you grown up made you unique and you should be proud of it. The hard part is to accept others, which is different from you and to tolerate their beliefs. I noticed that most cachers believe that a cache must be published before a first to find. I am thinking much wider and broader than this little window. To me this is not a hard and fast rule but it depend on the owner and I will dance the way he beats the drum.

 

My rules are simple. If the cache is in an urban area where there is a chance that other cachers can find it then I will not allow any cacher to be with me when it is stashed. If it is in an isolated spot with no cachers around then I feel it is stupid not to allow a FTF on the cache. If a cacher/s is with me then he will not log a HTH but he will be given the chance to search for it. If he claims it as a FTF then so be it and if he wants to log a HTH or leave it for a next cacher then so be it. I am not going to force him to do it my way; I leave that decision to him based on what he feels is right or wrong at that moment. The bottom line is that I am the cache owner and I make the rules. I am the only one accountable for that cache and I am accountable for the maintenance of such. But with full accountability the power is given to me for the decision and no one else can direct or dictate the FTF rules, unless it is on private property or it is misleading and cachers can be hurt without a warning on the listing.

 

But it is going much further than this. If I have 4 cachers with me and they are driving big 4x4’s at a emission rate of 180mg/km and we are 150 km away from home what is the effect if they all have to come back to search for the cache as a FTF? They know that the cache was stashed and they will keep an eye on the listing and the chance is high that they will find it first. This calculates to more than 160 kg of stuff into Mother Nature. Do it ten times and you have 1.6 tons of co2 in the air just because you want to apply the rule of “First publishing before a FTF”. I am not prepared to pay the price of 160 kg of co2. With my way it is a saving in co2. In real terms this is a saving of more than 90 litre of diesel, which is also a scares resource. In rand terms a saving of R820 for the three cachers to find that FTF, excluding the wear and tear. So in my madness there are some techniques and something different than a strict rule. At present as a team we have done more than 100 000 km of caching which amounts to about 18 tons of co2 released and if there is a technique to reduce this amount then I will find it and I will use it. We are going to make use of a two wheeler soon, not only to save money but to save something else which is important to me. I am not going to stop caching but I will look at ways to reduce the impact even if it is slight. Does this answer your question? Let us see what is next in this Pandora’s box. G

Hi Gerhard

 

Like you said in your log, we are all different and that is what makes life interesting. So, on that note I must now totally disagree with you on the FTF before publication topic.

 

How can you claim a FTF on something that does not exist? The fact that the cache is not published means that the geocachers that found a plastic container in the woods did exactly that. He only found a bit of plastic. That bit of plastic only becomes a cache once Groundspeak’s reviewers approve it and publish it.

 

If the bigger picture is to save on co2 emissions then let the cachers claim the HTH. (They can still go and hunt for it to make it more fun) This will still give them the smiley and the find on their stats. Yes it will not be a FTF but that is life. Now they do not have to drive all the way out to the cache for a second time and there you go less co2 emissions.

 

If you think about it, not placing the cache at all will lead to nobody driving to the location and that will save even more co2 emissions, but that is not the answer because nobody would be able to enjoy the location and caching would die out. I agree we must do our bit to help save the planet as we will not get any do overs, but that (in my opinion) does not create a good enough reason for claiming a FTF before publication.

 

You mentioned that you are the cache owner and you have the power to decide what should happen on your caches. I do respect that but the whole idea is to cache in harmony. I can then argue that I am the cache finder and can log it anyway I wanna Ctrl C – Ctrl V. This will not be caching in harmony.

 

I would like to know what other cachers think regarding this topic as this is only my opinion – Maybe we should start running some voting polls on some topic.

 

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I never claim a FTF if I was present when the cache was hidden. I usually log a find in the back of the log book and log online sometime after FTF. It's my personal way to "clear the cache from the map". I sometimes just put the cache on my ignore list.

It would be nice if provision was made by GS to share cache ownership.

 

I am impressed how much stress other cachers behavior causes cache owners!

 

Bad relationships take far more energy to maintain than good ones. That's why etiquette issues are a non issue for me on my caches. I cannot condone "punishing" cachers for breaking etiquette rules that they may not be aware of.

 

I may offend CO whith negative logs but have made it a personal standpoint not to use TFTC to show that I think the cache is poor. The owner has taken some effort to hide the cache and I think it deserves some effort to explain why you didn't enjoy the cache. No offense is intended. I do also try to highlight the positive elements of the cache before explaining why I didn't enjoy it.

Edited by CapeDoc

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Ok - We get it. Copy + Paste = Not Good.

 

I myself am guilty of this and sometimes after doing about 30 caches in a day the logging seems to be the longest part, but that is no excuse and I will stop this practise as I can understand the frustration it can create for the owners of the caches. (See how helpful communication can be !!!)

 

I thinks I have done this to some of Wazat's and other owners caches in Newcastle - Sorry guys, hope you accept my apology. :anicute:

Tadaaaaaaaa... Haa haa, come to think of it you did... But we had a good laugh at your dad's cause we couldn't figure out quite what he was on about...

 

Quote - BAKGAT

Caching with my son Scottscott after we escorted my daughter and his wife to Newcastle

On their way back to Durban

 

It was quite funny the way it was put.

 

But the logs, although they contained the same text, also mentioned something about the cache in question, not all of them but some. Which is still acceptable. The copy and past section was short and didn't specify other caches...

 

This really came about from me looking at other caches in GP and KZN coast and picking up a trend among cachers to do this. I want to base my caching around what people think about caches, their logs are an important indication of what lies ahead. To get a feel for what the caching community likes... the new Favorite system helps in some way, but accounts of the find are also a good indication of what to expect. I drive far for finds now and it always helps to read the previous logs and have a little bit of info on what to expect... I understand that logging finds is a tedious process... I sometimes go and do a trip and come home to log 20 - 30 finds... usually 2 or 3 days later...

 

It may be easier to just put TFTC, or copy and paste... but as a cache owner, I look at what I would like to see in my caches and log accordingly.

 

As for FTF before publication. I have found one that was not published on a hunch that the owner was going to put one at the spot, I had done a cache of his on one side of the town and thought that he would most likely place one on the other side on a similar structure... I went to see but didn't find one... two days later I went again also just thinking that maybe it will be there... and it was... Two days later the cache is published... and I can log my find. I claim it as a FTF, but put in the date and my story of finding it... if the cache owner has a problem with that, well then it is OK, I delete the log and log it again as normal find... as I said before it is all down to the owner, if he is happy... then go for it. Again I look at this in this way, a find is not completed until the log is signed in the container and online... So even if i did sign it a day or two earlier than publication, it is down to online logging to actually claim it as a find...

 

New point.... Newbies, please..... Do not wrap a cache inside a plastic bag. It doesn't help keep it dry but actually makes it worse. The question here is... when I get to a cache wrapped up in a bag, do I replace it the same way, or discard of the bag only to get flack from the CO that his cache is not the way he left it. Fortunately caches now days are less likely to be wrapped in a bag... but here and there you will find a new one with a bag around it... I replace it in the bag, but then it is best to log a maintenance note when logging your find...

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New point.... Newbies, please..... Do not wrap a cache inside a plastic bag. It doesn't help keep it dry but actually makes it worse. The question here is... when I get to a cache wrapped up in a bag, do I replace it the same way, or discard of the bag only to get flack from the CO that his cache is not the way he left it. Fortunately caches now days are less likely to be wrapped in a bag... but here and there you will find a new one with a bag around it... I replace it in the bag, but then it is best to log a maintenance note when logging your find...

 

I must agree 100%. Just use a good lock n lock container and you will not have to do anything else to keep the cache dry. If you wanna put it in a camo bag so be it, but a plastic bag is just plain nasty.:blink:

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but a plastic bag is just plain nasty.:blink:

 

And gets nastier over time - nothing worse than digging through a 2 1/2 years old - semi degraded, muddy, wet black bag ---- YUCK

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but a plastic bag is just plain nasty.:blink:

 

And gets nastier over time - nothing worse than digging through a 2 1/2 years old - semi degraded, muddy, wet black bag ---- YUCK

 

Not to mention dangerous, loads of creepy stuff inside them bags, and many invisible due to the colour. Dangerous spiders come in black.... Also not too healthy, bacteria in the stale water.... eish. At least they degrade... that is a plus point... But I agree on the cammo bags, good idea... How often do you throw away old Captain chairs cause the legs break, that canvas is ideal once transformed into a bag... I have my ..... cache in an old tent peg bag, that I actually found while hiding another cache, not only was it past of a CITO of sorts but made and excellent protector of my cache. It endures heavy downpours and keeps my cache perfectly dry...

 

OK another one... We are all into paperless caching as we progress in our adventures, but even so, printing out a print version of the cache page is maybe a single page, which is ideal when organised into a neat setup of clipboard and paper. It also draws attention away from suspect looking muggles, the times that we wander around fully engrossed in the GPS or smartphone, there can be an unwelcome muggle taking note of what you are up to. Next thing you know is that you are a GPS or Phone less... I am not saying you must go print every cache page, perhaps just the ones that you feel may benefit you more. It is also a great way to explain yourself if someone comes along and asks what you are doing... I have often given a shop or land owner a cache page so they can see for themselves what it is about... You try and remember something that someone tells you, and cannot remember what it was by the time you get home.

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We previously discussed in another forum the situation of power trials and completing caches in a series..., the more people find caches in this way the more we will see "Copy" and "Paste" logs. We did a trip to Bloem last year and I see again there is an event scheduled for this weekend where people are attempting to find the most caches in one day... I'm sorry, but by the 10th cache done like this you can't remember anything about the previous cache. Things start happening so quickly that every thing just become a blur. I think Oom Louwtjie most probably is the most frustrated cache owner when it gets to "Copy" and "Paste" logs. But this is it, a lot of persons chase badges (even if some of the more prestige persons here claim otherwise) they realy like presenting their badges on their profiles.... and as long as persons have badges to chase they will find ways to get them. I think in general one should stay away from "copying" and "Pasting", but in some cases it becomes the only way to really log the 111 done in one day. This however should never be the norm[:D]

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We previously discussed in another forum the situation of power trials and completing caches in a series..., the more people find caches in this way the more we will see "Copy" and "Paste" logs. We did a trip to Bloem last year and I see again there is an event scheduled for this weekend where people are attempting to find the most caches in one day... I'm sorry, but by the 10th cache done like this you can't remember anything about the previous cache. Things start happening so quickly that every thing just become a blur. I think Oom Louwtjie most probably is the most frustrated cache owner when it gets to "Copy" and "Paste" logs. But this is it, a lot of persons chase badges (even if some of the more prestige persons here claim otherwise) they realy like presenting their badges on their profiles.... and as long as persons have badges to chase they will find ways to get them. I think in general one should stay away from "copying" and "Pasting", but in some cases it becomes the only way to really log the 111 done in one day. This however should never be the norm[:D]

 

Well I am going along to be part of the team. I may not break the 111 as an individual, but I will promise not a single copy and paste will come from me... And each log will be about the cache in question. I cache to get numbers, but I cache with the expectancy of something from the cache. A story to tell... And though it may not come all at once, it will come... Copy and pasting 100 plus caches... too easy. Too boring...

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What do other cachers do in the following scenario: You get to GZ and all seems nice and quite, you find the cache, remove it, but while you are logging it the place suddenly becomes very busy with lots of muggles and you are stranded with the cache in hand. It recently happend to me and I thought I managed to hide the cache with nobody noticing but obviously someone did notice and removed the cache.....[:(]. What are you suppose to do in this sittuation?

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Hi B&C,

The best is to take the container with you away from site, and then let the cache owner know. He can then arrange with you to replace the cache back on a later stage or a new hiding spot.

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Yes - if I'm close to home I do that - but what if it is a far off cache location that you are unlikely to get to again?

 

In a similar vein - a newbie cacher closeby here placed a cache (a pencil box size) in plain view - i.e. hidden behind a Yeild sign that muggkles can see from a distance - just below the yeild sign in an array of roots that could hide the container far better.

 

As a FTF cacher - do you move the cache, suggest the cacher moves the cache - or leave it to be muggled?

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As a FTF cacher - do you move the cache, suggest the cacher moves the cache - or leave it to be muggled?

Never move a cache without permission of the owner. If I do not have his phone number, I'll put it back in the original place and send him a message suggesting a better place.

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