PN-40 no Topo

[+buymyemu]

I just purchased a used PN-40 from ebay, does not come with Topo x. Do I need topo8/9 or can I get maps from elsewhere (will the free map site maps work on a PN-40 without topo 8/9)?

 

Thanks

[+embra]

The free maps are a no-go on the PNs. Topo8 or Topo9 are not essential, but they are pretty helpful. The Mac users limp along transferring the pre-cut detail topo maps from the DVDs that come with Topo and getting subscription maps from the DeLorme online map center.

 

Do you have any detail maps on the device at all? It should have a base map installed, but are you able see any streets beyond major highways if you zoom in?

[+buymyemu]

I literally just paid for it an hour ago, so I probably will not have it in hand until middle of next week. The ebay listing states it has no maps of any kind. This is my first geo gps, so I am just learning.

 

I have been using a tomtom car gps (where am i function), but that is not accurate in the woods, so even if I have no maps, as long as the lat/long show, I will be 100% better off.

[+embra]

We might have to wait to see when you have it in hand just what you're working with. If necessary, there's a firmware download that includes the basemap, so that wouldn't cost you anything extra. The topo maps are nice to have, because they are vectorized (memory efficient) and allow street routing...plus, it's nice to have the computer software to work with for planning excursions.

 

The $29 annual map subscription would allow you to download as much rasterized imagery as you would desire; you keep the maps even after the subscription expires. The CacheRegister download is free, and can handle transferring your pocket queries to the device.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I agree with everything that Embra says.

Personally, I cannot imagine using my PN-60 with neither the Topo NorthAmerica 9.0 installed on this PC nor the selected detail maps from the 5 detail map DVDs installed on my PN-60.

 

Do you still have the eBay link to the product available and, if so, can you post it for us to review?

[+buymyemu]

Here is the ebay link:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160554418673

 

I did download 2.8 from delorme just in case.

 

If I understand, the download should have a basemap, and topo or 3rd party are further refinements to the base...

Edited March 4, 2011 by buymyemu

[+Team CowboyPapa]

OK, that review clarified it for me as it states no DVDs nor cables included.

 

The base map includes major highways such as interstates, tollways and national highways. It will not include street detail down to the residential street or back country roads. These can be obtained a part of the Topo USA 8.0 installation or from the 4 DVDs hosting the region, detail maps.

 

Additionally, you will really need the cable to transfer recorded tracks from the PN-40 to Topo USA 8.0 on your computer and to transfer PQ resultant files from geocaching.com to your PN-40.

 

Now, I just noticed that you have downloaded FW 2.8.

If you intend to install that, Topo NorthAmerica 9.0 is best.

If you intend to retain FW 2.6, or earlier, Topo USA 8.0 is best.

[+Pax42]

I see there are sales of Topo USA 8.0 on Ebay for as little as $25. Unfortunately Topo 8 isn't fully compatible with Firmware 2.8. For that, as mentioned by Cowboy, you'd need Topo 9 which of course, will cost you more. Download cables run about $12 I think and you definitely have to have that. To be honest, $100 wasn't a great deal without the software or cable. The PN-40 often goes on sale online for as little as $179 new with accessories including the Topo and regional map disks. A few folks here on the forums just recently bought some factory refurbished units with everything for about $120.

[+buymyemu]

As expected, sometimes i pull the trigger too soon. Is the cable specialized, I have a lot of equipment around here that takes USB, if something fits, will it work?

 

First reaction is that the lack of roads is no big deal (I have a tomtom), but I suspect they help locate as reference points.

 

Ok, so 2.6 for topo 8

2.8 for topo 9

 

I need to watch for sales..

 

$100 for unit

$7 shipping

$6 Tax

$12 cable

$25+ for topo

$150+

 

Hoping the unit won't be too beat up..

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Yes, the cable is proprietary at the GPSr end and std USB at the other, so one will have to be aquired.

Additionally, I use this adapter connected to the cable along with the rechargeable Li-Ion battery pack to maintain charge while driving:

Dual 12VDC to USB, 2 holers:

http://www.meritline.com/dual-usb-car-charger-417---p-26579.aspx

http://www.meritline.com/dual-usb-car-charger-418---p-26559.aspx

 

Or, with standard AA cells, one can keep the AAs from depleting while driving.

 

Note that NiMH rechargable AAs can only be recharged externally, not while in the PN-40.

[+buymyemu]

I finally found a picture, quite the end on that cable... why use a mini or micro end when a custom one can be made!

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I finally found a picture, quite the end on that cable... why use a mini or micro end when a custom one can be made!

I dunno', but 24 million iPhone and iPod users do not seem to share that concern.

[+buymyemu]

Actually, maybe mini/micro connectors would not be waterproof?

 

I am going to wait until I have this thing in hand and see what it has. If it has 2.6 or 2.8 on it I may be able to load directly to the SD card via the computer?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Actually, maybe mini/micro connectors would not be waterproof?

 

I am going to wait until I have this thing in hand and see what it has. If it has 2.6 or 2.8 on it I may be able to load directly to the SD card via the computer?

I have no inside knowledge regarding the particulars of the DeLorme design and development process; however, it is a consensus thet the connector design is compliant with the water resistance requirement.

[+embra]

If it has 2.6 or 2.8 on it I may be able to load directly to the SD card via the computer?

Yes, that might work for you...although it's a bit of a PITA to have to take the card out frequently. One tip: be very gentle removing and reinstalling the SD card. The holder is easily unhinged if you push it too hard in the wrong way. Once you understand how it works and remember to treat it gingerly, you shouldn't have any problem. But many of us have learned stepping outside the envelope.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Here is a link to the cable that I grabbed from one of Lee's posts:

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?item=25886

[+user13371]

I finally found a picture, quite the end on that cable... why use a mini or micro end when a custom one can be made!

I dunno', but 24 million iPhone and iPod users do not seem to share that concern.

Ah, good mornin' Stu! Okay class, now that we're all here, repeat after me... iPod sync cables can be found thousands of places, locally and online, even the Dollar Store. DeLorme PN-series cables can only be had from DeLorme, for $13 plus shipping.

 

Forum regulars already understand, but newcomers might wonder at this ritual. Someone complains about the DeLorme proprietary cable, Stu can't help but dismiss the complaint by saying iPod cables are proprietary also; Lee can't help but point out how Stu's comparison is further off than apples to oranges...

Edited March 6, 2011 by Portland Cyclist

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I finally found a picture, quite the end on that cable... why use a mini or micro end when a custom one can be made!

I dunno', but 24 million iPhone and iPod users do not seem to share that concern.

Ah, good mornin' Stu! Okay class, now that we're all here, repeat after me... iPod sync cables can be found thousands of places, locally and online, even the Dollar Store. DeLorme PN-series cables can only be had from DeLorme, for $13 plus shipping.

 

Forum regulars already understand, but newcomers might wonder at this ritual. Someone complains about the DeLorme proprietary cable, Stu can't help but dismiss the complaint by saying iPod cables are proprietary also; Lee can't help but point out how Stu's comparison is further off than apples to oranges...

Not always do I mention it!

And we do have four of the iPod proprietary cables.

 

You see, my grandchildren worked me for iPods for Christmas and knowing that they required proprietary cables was never mentioned to them.

Have one im my Jeep as I speak for connection to the 12VDC USB adapter to which I have linked above.

So, yesterday as we were driving and my grandaughter needed a charge....ready to go!

Edited March 6, 2011 by Team CowboyPapa

[+user13371]

Speaking as an Apple stockholder, I commend your grandchildren's good sense. Maybe they got it from the other side of the family

 

Look, I know you love DeLorme products and I agree they offer a great geocaching package for the price. But to shrug off the bad cable design (especially with irrelevant comparisons to unrelated products) is silly. When it comes up, just say "Yeah, it's a great GPS, but it's a good idea to buy an extra cable to keep as a spare." That's more honest and helpful.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Portland Cyclist

[+Woodstramp]

Portland,

 

"But to shrug off the bad cable design (especially with irrelevant comparisons to unrelated products) is silly."

 

I'm going through a "60csx phase" right now regarding handheld GPS use. One thing I miss most is the Delorme style connector. In my use it's actually a better design than what the 60's have. Those have rubber plugs and I've heard the mini USB port can be damaged with a bunch of bumping around. As many times a I've connected/unconnected (dropped/yanked) my old PN it has seldom given trouble. A little jiggle makes it connect.

[+user13371]

I'm going through a "60csx phase" right now ... One thing I miss most is the Delorme style connector.

Really? Have you had to replace a mini-USB cable for your Garmin yet? How are you liking your Garmin otherwise?

 

Even though YOU might not have had a PN cable fail, if you ask Stu (or many others here and on DeLorme's forum), they'll admit having had one go bad on them -- some folks more than one. It's failure-prone for a few reasons. Until the most recent revision, there was a ferrite bead at the head to choke off stray electrical noise. The cable was tightly wrapped through this with inadequate strain relief. So the wires inside get flexed, pinched, twisted; and eventually fail. And while the design does allow the PN-series CASE to be waterproof, the cable head itself really isn't -- tiny pins on tiny springs sliding in tiny holes. Potential failure points and subject to corrosion when exposed to the elements.

 

It's also likely a lot of folks unintentionally tug on or twist the cable when connecting/disconnecting it from the GPS. It's really important to just push on the plastic head part of the cable to put it on/off the GPS, not to stress the cable -- in this regard, a screw like the older Magellan GPSRs (330, Sportrak; not so much the Explorists) had might have been a better choice to eliminate sliding strain when attaching/detaching -- though many folks (including me) thought Magellan made the screw too small and fiddly, easy to strip.

 

Add to those engineering and human factors, replacement cables are only available from DeLorme, and expensive -- at least compared to more widely available commodity items like mini-USB cables or iPod sync cables. But pricing aside, it just makes sense to buy a spare ahead of time, so you have it when you need it.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Portland Cyclist

[+buymyemu]

I guess I have learned from this thread that the cable is not a very good design, so thanks for that info.

 

I just ordered 2 from delorme for a total of $33, about 1/3 of the cost of the GPS.

 

So, my 'cheap' pn-40 is now up to (113+33) = $146 and I still need map software...

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I guess I have learned from this thread that the cable is not a very good design, so thanks for that info.

 

I just ordered 2 from delorme for a total of $33, about 1/3 of the cost of the GPS.

 

So, my 'cheap' pn-40 is now up to (113+33) = $146 and I still need map software...

Well, you will just have to hope for good luck on the cable.

 

But, be cautioned in the future that the support equipment is more important than the prime mission equipment.

For example, next time you buy a new car, make sure that the lug nut wrench and jack are of the proper design, cheap and available at any Pep Boys or Dollar Store.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Team CowboyPapa

[+user13371]

Stu, that's an apt analogy even if you meant it sarcastically. For both a car and a GPS, "prime mission" and "support" equipment are part of a package -- a package that can become useless if the support equipment isn't there when you need it.

 

I might be dissuaded from buying a specific model car if it had specialized lug nuts, tyre-changing tools, etc that were hard to obtain and had a higher incidence of failure than those of competing products. On the other hand, if the car had some other outstanding features -- like great handling or fuel economy or an outstanding price -- I might be willing to deal with the inconveniences. "Dealing with" means making making sure I had the necessary support equipment, even if it was hard to get.

 

The OP basically got the equivalent of a "good price" on a car -- even though it came without some necessary tools. We're all just trying to help him get on the road.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Portland Cyclist

[+Woodstramp]

I'm going through a "60csx phase" right now ... One thing I miss most is the Delorme style connector.

Really? Have you had to replace a mini-USB cable for your Garmin yet?

 

No, it's used but came to me in pristine condition. A standard, straight mini USB cable juts straight out of the port when plugged in. An inch and a half of straight cable connector looks like it could cause trouble eventually if allowed to torque the little USB port. I only use that for data transfer. When plugged in the car I use the big 4 pin connection to power it while on the road.

 

How are you liking your Garmin otherwise?

 

Actually, I really like the 60. Love the larger (than a PN) screen. It can't do the fancy mapping or paperless like the PN, but it is a nice, solid unit. I don't like how much force it takes to plug/unplug the 4 prong cable. It is rather tight. In all fairness, the Delorme connector was a tad tight when new. I hope the Garmin one eventually gives a little.

 

Both the D and G unit cable connections are better than the old Explorist cables. I used a an Explorist 400 for about a year. Went through two cables in that time.

 

Even though YOU might not have had a PN cable fail, if you ask Stu (or many others here and on DeLorme's forum), they'll admit having had one go bad on them -- some folks more than one.

 

Some folks may have had trouble with the cables. All I can say is I used MY cable a lot and have had little trouble. My original cable is about 2 years old. That first year it served double duty....plugged into a cig-lighter converter for car power and as a data cable for the PC. It still serves as a data cable. I did buy a Delorme 12v cable about 6 months ago. It works well too.

[+user13371]

"Little trouble?" Or none at all?

[+Woodstramp]

I reckon that "trouble" is a relative word. My definition in this aspect with a Delorme cable would be solved with a slight wiggle of the connection.

 

"Trouble" with the 60csx is just the force needed to unplug it.

 

"Trouble" with an old Explorist cable were cable conductor circuit opens verified with an ohmmeter (and money to Ebay for another OEM cable).

[+user13371]

I hear you on the Explorist cables. Magellan quality sank when Thales bought their consumer line out -- got even worse while being sold, resold, sliced and diced through further acquisitions. I had a couple of Meridians an Explorist over that time frame, but none were as solid and reliable as the SporTrak Pro or even the Map 330 that came before that. Ain't nothing left now of the old company except the name, really.

[+buymyemu]

OK, I read the gps-wiki but still:

 

Topo 8.0 national can be had for about 29 including shipping

Topo 9.0 can be had for 71 with shipping

 

I have no experience, so not sure which one is better for me.

 

I will use it only for geocaching,

I will always be with an 8 and 10 year old.

I am out of shape, so do not plan on mountain climbing (the only mountains in Michigan are usually the local landfills).

We might use it on our mountain bikes (seems a waste, cause we won't climb the dumps)

I doubt there are any great trails maps for where we look (near Flint, MI)

We do have some pretty good parks, but none are more than 2 miles from one side to the other (locally)

[+user13371]

Topo 8 will be probably fine for your purposes. You're mainly gonna want the detailed road & topo maps that come on DVD, and you might not ever really use the rest of software.

 

For geocaching you can download Cache Register and the latest firmware and base maps (not as detailed) for free from DeLorne. There are some inconveniences and incompatibilities there with Topo 8, but for your own uses you likely won't run into problems. Sometime down the road if you decide you DO need Topo 9, copies will probably be available cheaper next year than it is now.

 

This next suggestion might seem a bit dodgy, but... you might be able to find a PN-40 user locally who would gift you copies of the detailed maps of Michigan from either T8 or T9. Then you wouldn't have to buy a Topo at all -- unless later you decided you really need it. This might edge into software piracy, but it's hard to say. In my view you'd just be recovering something that should have been provided with the GPS originally; no cost or loss to DeLorme, and it might lead to future purchases.

 

Taking that one step further... you might even call DeLorme customer support and explain you bought a refurb or something on eBay and see what kind of deal they can give you on replacement discs, either a full software package or just pre-cut detail maps. You might have already noticed eBay is not always the cheapest or best place to buy stuff.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Portland Cyclist

[ao318]

Sent you a PM.

[+embra]

OK, I read the gps-wiki but still:

 

Topo 8.0 national can be had for about 29 including shipping

Topo 9.0 can be had for 71 with shipping

One thing to watch out for: DeLorme sells one version that does not have the GPS interface in the software; another that does. If you end up with the version without, it won't do you much good (although you might be able to call DeLorme and arrange an exchange). There's no price difference between the two. I think that--when buying from DeLorme--they assume a standalone Topo purchase is for non-GPS use unless the customer otherwise specifies.

[+buymyemu]

2 updates:

 

1) The unit has arrived, in excellent condition, even has batteries. Has Version 2.6.224602

2) A very kind geocacher has mailed his old topo 8's (has upgraded to topo 9), (he even covered the shipping charge!) Thanks !!!!!!!!