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Unlisted USGS reference mark

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Hi. On the following page I have documented the location of a long-gone Fire Lookout Tower:

http://wythe.us/content/tiki-index.php?page=High+Rock+Lookout+Tower

 

At the tower site I came across a USGS reference mark named "HIGH ROCK" stamped 1948. There is also a USDA Forest Service marker #191, initialed in pencil "LRE 4-22-04". Those seem to be somewhat rare - I posted about that USDA marker here before. Both are pictured on the page I referenced above.

 

My main question is that the USGS reference mark is not listed here or on the NGS site. There nearest benchmark is another fire tower several miles away. What does it mean when a USGS mark is not listed?

 

Thanks!

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Hi. On the following page I have documented the location of a long-gone Fire Lookout Tower:

http://wythe.us/content/tiki-index.php?page=High+Rock+Lookout+Tower

 

At the tower site I came across a USGS reference mark named "HIGH ROCK" stamped 1948. There is also a USDA Forest Service marker #191, initialed in pencil "LRE 4-22-04". Those seem to be somewhat rare - I posted about that USDA marker here before. Both are pictured on the page I referenced above.

 

My main question is that the USGS reference mark is not listed here or on the NGS site. There nearest benchmark is another fire tower several miles away. What does it mean when a USGS mark is not listed?

 

Thanks!

 

This reference mark is likely part of a triangulation station set. If the USGS set triangulation stations like the NGS does, then the excellent article by NGS Surveyor (which is the first article pinned at the top of the benchmark forums) may help explain the set of disks used in a triangulation station. Here is the link to it. Hope it helps.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=185361

 

If this reference mark is part of a triangulation station, the actual tri-station is the one most likely listed. However, there are lot's of benchmarks not in the NGS database, as explained here with the differences between the NGS and USGS:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/#notin

Edited by LSUFan

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This reference mark is likely part of a triangulation station set. If the USGS set triangulation stations like the NGS does, then the excellent article by NGS Surveyor (which is the first article pinned at the top of the benchmark forums) may help explain the set of disks used in a triangulation station. Here is the link to it. Hope it helps.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=185361

 

Thank you. Are USGS triangulation station markers described in some other database then?

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This reference mark is likely part of a triangulation station set. If the USGS set triangulation stations like the NGS does, then the excellent article by NGS Surveyor (which is the first article pinned at the top of the benchmark forums) may help explain the set of disks used in a triangulation station. Here is the link to it. Hope it helps.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=185361

 

Thank you. Are USGS triangulation station markers described in some other database then?

 

My understanding about USGS benchmarks (the ones that weren't bluebooked and entered into the NGS database, which I edited my original post to explain), is that their database is a file cabinet(s). :D

 

You can contact the USGS directly and they will send you a copy of the one you are interested in. (or that is what one of my friends did)

Edited by LSUFan

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USGS placed marks at many Fire Towers in my state. It appears they did that to locate the fire towers and for no other reason. From reading descriptions the marks are always "centered" under the tower so the tower was already there. They are always 3rd order but USGS now says they no longer certify their marks meet 3rd order.

 

USGS was into map making and they set the marks in support of that. USC&GS was the agency tasked with establishing control, not the USGS. USGS placed these marks to facilitate future map updating etc because the work was spread out over 100 yrs they needed some permanent marks on the ground to come back to and work off of.

Edited by Z15

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LSU Fan is correct (providing the NGS didn't use it and add it to their database)- USGS disk info is in a file cabinet. Those that have access to it are very nice and will send you a copy of info for your area/quad. Just a word of warning though - while they are rewarding to find - they are also tough to find! Take it from someone who has tried (as a few others on here have and can atest to!)

So if you like a challenge......................

 

This reference disk is pointing a certian direction - and if I were you - i would be back up there searching. based on other posts - it would probably be under where the fire tower stood. This one would be a cool one to find for sure! Who knows - there may even be another reference mark up there that will also help.

 

When and if you find it -(THE mark) - you can add it on Waymarking.com - and remember - details, coordinates and pictures will make for a great entry.

 

Please come back here and keep us posted on what you find - or don't find. Good luck!

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I visited ET0934 HORSETHIEF LOOKOUT last weekend. The sequence of events regarding the marks there was as follows:

1935 - Forest Service sets disk under center of the tower.

1946 - C&GS uses the Forest Service disk, adds two reference marks and an azimuth mark.

1968 - USGS uses the Forest Service disk, adds its own reference mark.

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While grazing in this forum tonight I came across a thread that started in 2007 that stated that the USGS was interested in getting recovery reports for their marks. Does anyone know if this is still the case? Does anyone have any experience with submitting one?

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While grazing in this forum tonight I came across a thread that started in 2007 that stated that the USGS was interested in getting recovery reports for their marks. Does anyone know if this is still the case? Does anyone have any experience with submitting one?

 

Contacting your regional USGS office seems to be the way to get started. 2/3 Marine has submitted quite a few to the USGS Denver office.

 

I am slowly putting together a file of their PID & NONPID marks that I have information on. I need to find out if they are interested in other monuments, such as Missouri River Commission (MORC) BM's, that have an 'X' on their maps.

 

a8e43640-ac9e-43f8-a7eb-eca1d542c32e.jpg

 

MORC BM 50-2 Mapped as BM X 2301. Not yet found MORC TRI GRAND ISLAND is on top of the far bare ridge.

 

kayakbird

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