NGS Surveyor Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 All, Anyone have photos of any National Ocean Survey and/or National Geodetic Survey survey disks made of aluminum from the years prior to 1981 for NOS, 1975 for NGS Bench Mark disks, and 1977 for Reference Mark disks? Thanks, GeorgeL NGS Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Rats. I've got a 1986 NOS. KU2138. I'll keep looking. Quote Link to comment
+LSUFan Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) All, Anyone have photos of any National Ocean Survey and/or National Geodetic Survey survey disks made of aluminum from the years prior to 1981 for NOS, 1975 for NGS Bench Mark disks, and 1977 for Reference Mark disks? Thanks, GeorgeL NGS George (and everyone), do you know if these older aluminum disks would show up on the datasheet as "MARKER: A = ALUMINUM MARKER"? The reason I ask, is I was using GSAK and Bullygoats new marker macro to filter out the ones in Louisiana to see if there were some of these that you are inquiring about anywhere. Everything that came back, was for 1991 and later. They were all NOS. Edited March 3, 2011 by LSUFan Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) Would a USGS disc from 1899 be of interest? PINAL MOUNTAIN, DU2281 Edited March 3, 2011 by AZcachemeister Quote Link to comment
NGS Surveyor Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 LSUFan - Aluminum disks should probably be listed as "Aluminum Marker" but may not. NGS and NOS both used aluminum marks for several years. AZcachemeister - Your USGS disk is very old and interesting, but not of use for my paper which only covers USC&GS, NOS, and NGS marks. I know that USGS used survey disks a few years before USC&GS, but I don't know which year they started. Thanks, GeorgeL NGS Quote Link to comment
+TheBeanTeam Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 How do you tell if they are aluminum? Is this one from 1977? 943 1647 G TIDAL Quote Link to comment
kayakbird Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 George & all, These are going to be tough to sort out. I just did a Full Text Search for 'ALUMINUM' in the GSAK files for Montana and Minnesota and only came up with a few USGS disks that were later appropriated by the CGS for triangulation stations. The TheBeanTeam entry shows that 'ALUMINUM' may not appear in the DS. kayakbird Quote Link to comment
NGS Surveyor Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 BeanTeam, Yours appears to be brass. The disks made of aluminum are gray and have a somewhat rough surface. For some photos, see my paper at: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/about_ngs/history/Survey_Mark_Art.pdf page 35. GeorgeL NGS Quote Link to comment
+TheBeanTeam Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 BeanTeam, Yours appears to be brass. The disks made of aluminum are gray and have a somewhat rough surface. For some photos, see my paper at: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/about_ngs/history/Survey_Mark_Art.pdf page 35. GeorgeL NGS Thanks, George That is a great paper with excellent information. I thought it was likely brass but was unsure they seemed darker almost black so were odd to me when I found them (I recovered more than just this example). On a separate note; I am pretty sure that for figure 42 the photos used are my photos but they are credited to someone else. I may be wrong but I don't think so. Quote Link to comment
NGS Surveyor Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 BeanTeam, I apologize - you are absolutely correct - the photos of the MAGNETIC STATION are yours. I got permission from the other person to use theirs but liked yours better and somehow got confused. I just corrected the new, updated version of the survey mark paper (still on my computer), in both the text (next to the photos) and in the list of credits near the end. GeorgeL NGS Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Hmm... Can't talk you into a Department of the Interior disk? Looks aluminum... LY2296 Quote Link to comment
kayakbird Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 This one is 1975, not prior to: AA3904 Bill93 bagged it in Iowa 13 Sept 2004. FIG. 83 in George's publication does not have 'MARK' under 'VERTICAL CONTROL'. MEL Quote Link to comment
Bill93 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I thought of that trio (AA3903, 3904, 3905) but wasn't sure if they fell within scope of his request. Those marks are a strange case, which I didn't fully understand at the time I logged them, although I knew something was wrong. I think what happened is there were C&GS/State Survey disks along the road that was being widened, that had no data sheets, but somebody carefully recorded the difference in elevation to these new RESET disks along the wider ROW. They submitted the data, and the office found the closest ones with those designations (5, 8, and 12) in the data base, which happened to be in the wrong counties. So the elevations on the RESET data sheets were carefully computed as x.xxx feet above disk 12 in the other county, and are thus totally meaningless (off by 100 feet or more from reality). Some of them might make usable GPS points, but there is a tree or pole near each. Maybe somebody local has used them somehow. Otherwise they are worse than useless. I hope any user would notice the data sheet elevations being off that much from the topo map. Quote Link to comment
kayakbird Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I thought of that trio (AA3903, 3904, 3905) but wasn't sure if they fell within scope of his request. Those marks are a strange case, which I didn't fully understand at the time I logged them, although I knew something was wrong. I think what happened is there were C&GS/State Survey disks along the road that was being widened, that had no data sheets, but somebody carefully recorded the difference in elevation to these new RESET disks along the wider ROW. They submitted the data, and the office found the closest ones with those designations (5, 8, and 12) in the data base, which happened to be in the wrong counties. So the elevations on the RESET data sheets were carefully computed as x.xxx feet above disk 12 in the other county, and are thus totally meaningless (off by 100 feet or more from reality). Some of them might make usable GPS points, but there is a tree or pole near each. Maybe somebody local has used them somehow. Otherwise they are worse than useless. I hope any user would notice the data sheet elevations being off that much from the topo map. Bill, I think that you figured it out if Iowa was anything like Nebraska where 470 were set but very few had levels run to them. There I'm coming up with less than 50 maybe's with PID's and a few NONPID. The field crew must not have paid any attention to anything in the DS when they set these and field stamped them. Hope you don't mind that I have inserted your photo of one of the real '5's. Do you have any more of that unique marker? kayakbird Quote Link to comment
Bill93 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I've seen several of those Iowa Highway Commission bronze plugs. A sharper but poorly composed picture is at AE9192. The newer style, Iowa DOT, can be seen at AE9193. But we're getting off the original topic so I won't insert the photos. Quote Link to comment
kayakbird Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 ['----prior to 1981 for NOS, 1975 for NGS Bench Mark disks, and 1977 for Reference Mark disks?] Maybe just a clerical error, but maybe the pre-1977 RM that George is looking for. GC0547_MARKER: DR = REFERENCE MARK DISK GC0547 HISTORY - 1974 MONUMENTED NGS GC0547'DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1974 GC0547'OF ROAD, A STANDARD ALUMINUM CAP ATTACHED TO THE TOP OF A GC0547'3 FOOT PRE-CAST ALUMINUM POST PROJECTING 4 INCHES. No log/recovery or photo. Anybody in Robertson Co, Tennessee need a target? Looks like a drive station with easy access off I 65, Exit 108 at White House. kayakbird Quote Link to comment
Difficult Run Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hey George, There may be some aluminum marks nearby, but I suspect they are set by the U.S.G.S. Results of Spirit Leveling 1896 to 1909 ~Mitch ~ Quote Link to comment
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