Archival of E.T. Highway Series

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I can't agree with that statement. When you read through the logs you'll see that caching the ET highway was an 'experience' and a fun group activity for most of those who participated. It picked up 132 favorites and many long log entries about how much fun the cachers had on their adventure. It may not be your cup of tea, I'm not sure it would be mine, but those who chose to do generally had a great time.

 

But can't you have as good a time (or better) when you're not stopping every 528' to grab a film can? I think the key to the fun folks are having is the camaraderie and the scenery, and the stops for meals.

[+geodarts]

This subject has been beat to death in previous threads. If you've got any evidence that there was a BLM problem with the caches, please provide the source.

Apparently it was not beaten hard enough, because you keep going on about the BLM as if it has any relevance. The NDOT does not want people acting out their Mad Max fantasies in the right of way. The BLM has nothing to do with it.

 

I think the BLM reference was in regard to the route 66 megatrail. It is my understanding that the old highway route is maintained by CALTRANS (State Historic Route 66) and passes through BLM land.

[+B+L]

This subject has been beat to death in previous threads. If you've got any evidence that there was a BLM problem with the caches, please provide the source.

Apparently it was not beaten hard enough, because you keep going on about the BLM as if it has any relevance. The NDOT does not want people acting out their Mad Max fantasies in the right of way. The BLM has nothing to do with it.

I think the BLM reference was in regard to the route 66 megatrail. It is my understanding that the old highway route is maintained by CALTRANS (State Historic Route 66) and passes through BLM land.

I believe the reference is to the earlier locked thread discussing the E.T. Highway series. The BLM or some other entity might own the land, but the NDOT (or CALTRANS) has jurisdiction over the right of way.

[Mr.Yuck]

OK Mr Yuck as long as you don't annoy the forum poster that used that line to put me in my place the last time I posted here! I see it as a badge of

dishonor! But lest I offend anyone.

 

Sorry for the off topic, but I was intrigued by that forum signature!! I didn't know if you were clowning around and thought it was funny, were offended, and ticked off at the finders of your caches, or what. I did look at your profile, and see probably 90% of your caches are archived. My experience in poking around the website is that very few people are going back and favoriting archived caches. No, I can't favorite one of yours unless I were to post a bogus armchair find log on it first!

 

So I'd better say something on topic. Your first post was about the Marathon on the E.T. highway, but I'll echo what someone else said, I'm sure the organizers paid for a police presence. Something Geocaching.com certainly didn't do (not that it would be practical or feasible).

[+geodarts]

I believe the reference is to the earlier locked thread discussing the E.T. Highway series. The BLM or some other entity might own the land, but the NDOT (or CALTRANS) has jurisdiction over the right of way.

 

Yup. Another person referred to the route 66 caches as "being on BLM land." But I agree with you about jurisdiction over the right of way in both cases.

[+fresgo]

Apparently NDOT and the Highway Patrol have no safety issues with the running of a marathon at Midnight along the ET Highway on August 13th.

 

Are you suggesting that if they are ok with a marathon, they should be ok with a power trail? Apples and oranges. Actually, further apart than that... more like apples and blowfish.

 

I'd be willing to wager my Garmin that the marathon organizers are required to pay for a hefty police presence for traffic control over the entire route, during the entire time that the event is taking place.

Like some I just like to hear myself speak, but you can interpret whatever you wish! Im sure if someone is hit by a car during the race NDOT and the highway patrol will shut it down too. But whether you're geocaching ET highway or running it there are definitely safety issues to contend with. Most of us follow common sense rules regarding safety others dont. It only takes one, two, or a few that don't to ruin it for all.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Does anyone else chuckle when they read 'snowplow' and 'Nevada' in the same sentence?

 

Nope. The Sierra *Nevada* mountains do extend into Nevada. I used to be part of a group that rented a ski house for several seasons that was about 5 miles from the Nevada border. One of the first weekends I stay there it snowed 9 feet in three days. Even though snow plows were out working non-stop the entire time it took three days for any of the roads out of the Tahoe basin to open, including interstate 80 towards Reno.

[+Sol seaker]

Apparently NDOT and the Highway Patrol have no safety issues with the running of a marathon at Midnight along the ET Highway on August 13th.

 

Are you suggesting that if they are ok with a marathon, they should be ok with a power trail? Apples and oranges. Actually, further apart than that... more like apples and blowfish.

 

I'd be willing to wager my Garmin that the marathon organizers are required to pay for a hefty police presence for traffic control over the entire route, during the entire time that the event is taking place.

Like some I just like to hear myself speak, but you can interpret whatever you wish! Im sure if someone is hit by a car during the race NDOT and the highway patrol will shut it down too. But whether you're geocaching ET highway or running it there are definitely safety issues to contend with. Most of us follow common sense rules regarding safety others dont. It only takes one, two, or a few that don't to ruin it for all.

 

If you've ever participated in, or seen a marathon along side a road, usually it is really hard to not see there is a race going on.

Most big marathons have streams of runners. You can't miss 'em (no pun intended).

With one or two cars caching, it's harder to know there is a car up ahead.

With a marathon they have to notify a lot of people and set up signs and things where road crossings are, etc. There's not this attention paid to safety with just one or two cars coming through.

I'm sure we could have gotten away with it if it had of been set up as a big event with streams of cachers, but I would imagine that many cars going through would be a problem in that area with no where to pull over. It would work in a safer area with cachers, or an area like that that is done by foot.

[+JBnW]

Does anyone else chuckle when they read 'snowplow' and 'Nevada' in the same sentence?

 

Nope. The Sierra *Nevada* mountains do extend into Nevada. I used to be part of a group that rented a ski house for several seasons that was about 5 miles from the Nevada border. One of the first weekends I stay there it snowed 9 feet in three days. Even though snow plows were out working non-stop the entire time it took three days for any of the roads out of the Tahoe basin to open, including interstate 80 towards Reno.

See Donner Party. Also the ski resort at Mt. Charleston.

[+ogeoISplash]

I will say first that I don’t usually read or make statements on the forums for what I thought was a very good reason. Most of the comments are negative and some outright nasty and throwing a blaming finger at other cachers. Even with all that and knowing that I will get some bad comments regarding my statement; I feel that I need to make a positive contribution regarding the ET power trail. And I hope others that enjoyed their experience will speak up too. This may not be the right spot to do this but I’m sure there is someone who will direct me to the right spot. But like I say, I don’t get on here often or know my way around them very good.

 

First of all: Yes, we did the ET Power Trail with a group of 5 in our georig. Yes, we stopped at every single one and we stamped every single log. We did not leap frog and we did not grab one container and take it to the next cache site. And yes, we did it under 24 hours. I only say this to let you know I speak from experience and not from hearsay, or unsubstantiated opinion. Sure the numbers were great, but what made it

more memorable was the beautiful scenery, the people we met along the way and our group we were caching with that day. This is only my opinion but I believe most of the cachers that did the ET power trail would attest to this too. I don’t have a problem with other caches that leap frog the power trails. I don’t believe it is right for me so I don’t do it.

 

I believe you have the right to express your opinion but I hope that Groundspeak will not only listen to your negative opinions but will listen to those that have done the power trail and done it in a safe manner. If Groundspeak disallows power trail because of “safety” as some of you suggest should happen, then they will have to remove all caches and close their doors. Accidents can and will happen. To justify removing any type of caches for safety concerns is carrying things to the extreme. You or I can cross the street in a crosswalk with a green light and get hit by a car. Will you make it illegal to walk across the street? Same goes for caches. Be responsible when you cache.

 

As to NDOT, I only have the info that has been stated on the cache page of ET 001 or here so it doesn’t count for much. But I know from experience that you can get permission from an organization or entity and then have someone else in that entity come along and disallow the cache.

 

So, let’s get together as cachers and work together to improve our relationships with government entities. Don’t’ talk down about the sport or other cachers. Just because you don’t like power trails, doesn’t make it wrong for anyone else to like them. Allow us the freedom to enjoy caches of all types and layouts.

[+Chokecherry]

It's easier to build relationships with entities if your not having to clean up the messes and bad reputation that other people have left behind.

[+MissJenn]

There is always some sadness when any cache needs to be archived. In this situation, Groundspeak is grateful for the collaboration this week of the cache owner (username Clay4&whtwolfden) and the Nevada Department of Transportation. Both parties like and are supportive of geocaching in general. Really: both parties. Both parties have been responsive and are acting responsibly.

 

If you would like to impact this situation positively, we suggest that you place caches with the land owner's or the land manager's permission. That is the relevant guideline for this situation. No other.

 

Obtain the landowner's and/or land manager's permission before you hide any geocache, whether placed on private or public property.

 

Petitioning Groundspeak to bring this cache series back will be 100% ineffective because we are not the landowner or the land manager.

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

Hopefully, my posts here serve as a good source of information. There has been a lot of speculation in some earlier posts -- those only cloud the situation and distract us all from the main facts. Those also serve to make this long thread even longer.

[tommytrojan360]

Can we just go back to tupperware in the woods?

 

I hope nothing bad happens to geocaching because of this, I don't think anything will, I just hope and pray something doesn't. I'd also like to say good job to the cache owners for not being stubborn, accepting, and taking responsibility for their caches. THUMBS UP! I don't think that cursing each other out on a forum board is beneficial in any way and I hope that we learn from this. Maybe now that the reviewers know what is acceptable and what is not a little more clearly, a guideline will help.... about ALL the aspects of hiding a powertrail if the reviewers are allowing these cache series to be placed. It would just be helpful. I feel there is nothing wrong with these series as long as they are placed AND FOUND properly, this series wasn't so it got archived.

 

Can we sign a petition of all the people who have learned from this?

[knowschad]

Can we just go back to tupperware in the woods?

Yes, you can.

[+Ecylram]

Can we just go back to tupperware in the woods?

The tupperware is out there and waiting for you!

[+globaltreckers]

I will say first that I don’t usually read or make statements on the forums for what I thought was a very good reason. Most of the comments are negative and some outright nasty and throwing a blaming finger at other cachers. Even with all that and knowing that I will get some bad comments regarding my statement; I feel that I need to make a positive contribution regarding the ET power trail. And I hope others that enjoyed their experience will speak up too. This may not be the right spot to do this but I’m sure there is someone who will direct me to the right spot. But like I say, I don’t get on here often or know my way around them very good.

 

First of all: Yes, we did the ET Power Trail with a group of 5 in our georig. Yes, we stopped at every single one and we stamped every single log. We did not leap frog and we did not grab one container and take it to the next cache site. And yes, we did it under 24 hours. I only say this to let you know I speak from experience and not from hearsay, or unsubstantiated opinion. Sure the numbers were great, but what made it

more memorable was the beautiful scenery, the people we met along the way and our group we were caching with that day. This is only my opinion but I believe most of the cachers that did the ET power trail would attest to this too. I don’t have a problem with other caches that leap frog the power trails. I don’t believe it is right for me so I don’t do it.

 

I believe you have the right to express your opinion but I hope that Groundspeak will not only listen to your negative opinions but will listen to those that have done the power trail and done it in a safe manner. If Groundspeak disallows power trail because of “safety” as some of you suggest should happen, then they will have to remove all caches and close their doors. Accidents can and will happen. To justify removing any type of caches for safety concerns is carrying things to the extreme. You or I can cross the street in a crosswalk with a green light and get hit by a car. Will you make it illegal to walk across the street? Same goes for caches. Be responsible when you cache.

 

As to NDOT, I only have the info that has been stated on the cache page of ET 001 or here so it doesn’t count for much. But I know from experience that you can get permission from an organization or entity and then have someone else in that entity come along and disallow the cache.

 

So, let’s get together as cachers and work together to improve our relationships with government entities. Don’t’ talk down about the sport or other cachers. Just because you don’t like power trails, doesn’t make it wrong for anyone else to like them. Allow us the freedom to enjoy caches of all types and layouts.

My thoughts exactly.

The E.T HWY was an amazing adventure, just as life is!

Live and cache responsibly...

On a lighter note, on topic.... This new movie wouln't have ment a thing with out the E.T HWY run experience...

Live long and prosper/cache

[+Coldgears]

I wanted to eventually go to this series, I had dreams of finding 1k caches in a day only doing half and throwing down film cans. Thanks to Nevada transportation my dreams are crushed. They will get a VERY ANGRY LETTER in the mail!!!!!!!!!

[knowschad]

I don't want to come across like a self-appointed moderator here, but I do want to say, as OP, that we should all be careful that this thread doesn't become another hotbed of opinions about the pros and cons of power trails.

 

Well, so much for that.

[jholly]

I wanted to eventually go to this series, I had dreams of finding 1k caches in a day only doing half and throwing down film cans. Thanks to Nevada transportation my dreams are crushed. They will get a VERY ANGRY LETTER in the mail!!!!!!!!!

Probably a very bad idea.

[+Coldgears]

I wanted to eventually go to this series, I had dreams of finding 1k caches in a day only doing half and throwing down film cans. Thanks to Nevada transportation my dreams are crushed. They will get a VERY ANGRY LETTER in the mail!!!!!!!!!

Probably a very bad idea.

It will be well-written and I will use facts to back up my argument, rest assured it will be as civil as I can make it while still trying to say that I want something to change.

[+mc3cats]

This latest move chaps me a bit. If a few idiot cachers cant figure out how to merge on a single lane highway, they shouldnt be behind the wheel. Stick to riding a bike or take public transit.

 

How is the ET series any different from your garden variety guardrail-style cache? I will answer: Nothing other than theres a lot more of them. Theres thousands of those guardrail-style caches throughout this country. Heck, I know of a small cache series in the Tacoma area thats off a fairly busy two-lane road that winds up a hillside with twist and turns and just so happens to have a short caches series along it that is a guardrail series. I havent heard of WashDot complaining about that series. Heres something else the brainiacs at NDOT can think about; Did they considered the additional tourism dollars coming in from cachers who are visiting the middle-of-stinking-no-where, Nevada to grab these caches? These cachers are spending money and paying taxes to buy gas, food and lodging in an area of the state thats far away from the bright lights and big tourism dollars of Vegas? Apparently not. I guess too much sun not only causes skin cancer but apparently also kills off brain cells. WAY TO GO SILVER STATE!

[+addisonbr]

How is the ET series any different from your garden variety guardrail-style cache?

Volume (of cachers).

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I wanted to eventually go to this series, I had dreams of finding 1k caches in a day only doing half and throwing down film cans. Thanks to Nevada transportation my dreams are crushed. They will get a VERY ANGRY LETTER in the mail!!!!!!!!!

Probably a very bad idea.

It will be well-written and I will use facts to back up my argument, rest assured it will be as civil as I can make it while still trying to say that I want something to change.

You should write that letter to the cachers who caused this mess. The DOT is not at fault here. Pestering them with letter campaigns and petitions is a great way to get the DOT to wash their hands of the headache and just outright ban geocaching wherever they can. This is OUR hobby and they won't care if we can't play it in their sandbox.

[jholly]

I wanted to eventually go to this series, I had dreams of finding 1k caches in a day only doing half and throwing down film cans. Thanks to Nevada transportation my dreams are crushed. They will get a VERY ANGRY LETTER in the mail!!!!!!!!!

Probably a very bad idea.

It will be well-written and I will use facts to back up my argument, rest assured it will be as civil as I can make it while still trying to say that I want something to change.

It will not change anything. The series is archived, it will remain archived, it will not be resurrected. I fail to see how a letter to NDOT will change anything other than their opinion of geocachers in a negative direction.

[+Jenischmeni]

While they're out there, why don't they go geocaching? A quick scan of the map shows hundreds of caches scattered about the areas surround Vegas. Looks like almost every road in the area has enough caches to keep one entertained for more than a day.

Hopefully they will, although their trip was planned specifically to do 1000 caches in a day, so doing the ET highway was the goal and they were pretty pumped up about it. (not to mention rather heavily invested with plane tickets, accommodations, rental car, etc) I don't share the desire to do 1000 caches in a day, but I do get the whole concept of having a good time geocaching with friends. I'm sure they'll make the most of it and have a great time anyway.

 

Three couples/6 of us are all in the same boat as your friend. The airline tickets are bought, the hotel is already paid for. Yes, we will still go (we have to or we'll forfeit the monies already spent). Yes, we will still have fun (I've never known us not to). We will find other activities to engage our attention.

 

I just want to mention something calmly and rationally. I am not a number junkie like many of the posters will think simply because I have already made reservations to head out there. None of my travel companions are either. We all have modest finds found over many years of caching. We have seen many of friends go and complete this journey. We desired to do the same. We didn't look at like a quick 1000 cache pick up. We looked at it like something akin to the Amazing Race except for us as geocachers. There is a very distinct reason that this game is varied so much. To each his own. You want a long walk in the woods? Great! In my home state we have the Knobstone Trail. (I've personally hiked it and found caches along it.) You want some quick LPCs? Great! We have quick P&Gs (I've personally found some of those too.) You want a nice walking trail in the park and the chance to pick up 26 caches around a lake? Great! (I've walked the full circumference of the lake and found those 26 caches.) My point is this: A wide variety of styles/types/terrains/regions/areas/containers exist so that each of us can choose to find the caches we like.

 

Maybe you like a type of cache that I don't like. I'm not going to post on a public forum and call you names or question your intelligence. I'm going to respect that the hobby allows for the game to played in a wide variety of ways. Maybe you like Scrabble and maybe I like Yahtzee. I won't think ill of you because you prefer Scrabble.

 

I happen to enjoy a very wide variety of caches and my desire to seek out this trail was simply the opportunity to have some fun with two other couples whose companionship I happen to enjoy. We'll still enjoy our time together but we'll be disappointed that it's different from what we planned.

[+humboldt flier]

Risk management factors may have been at play with the decision by NDOT

 

Consider the potential liabilities the state may have been exposed to:

 

Exposure risks simply too large to ignore.

[+keewee]

Risk management factors may have been at play with the decision by NDOT

 

Consider the potential liabilities the state may have been exposed to:

 

Exposure risks simply too large to ignore.

 

Sorry to be negative against the great people who give their time to be reviewers, but I would have thought that Risk Management factors would have been considered when the reviewer reviewed these caches for publication!

 

I know our local reviewers certainly do.

Edited March 3, 2011 by keewee

[4wheelin_fool]

Well, at least it wasn't completely negative. As mentioned before, some local businesses welcomed the extra traffic through the area.

[+tozainamboku]

Risk management factors may have been at play with the decision by NDOT

 

Consider the potential liabilities the state may have been exposed to:

 

Exposure risks simply too large to ignore.

 

Sorry to be negative against the great people who give their time to be reviewers, but I would have thought that Risk Management factors would have been considered when the reviewer reviewed these caches for publication!

 

I know our local reviewers certainly do.

Just what "risks" do your local reviewers consider when publishing caches? I was not aware of any guidelines that tell the reviewer to do risk management. The closest would be

At times a geocache may meet the requirements for publication on the site but the reviewers, as experienced geocachers, may see additional concerns not listed in these guidelines that you as a geocache placer may not have noticed. The reviewer may bring these additional concerns to your attention and offer suggestions so that the geocache can be published.

So your local reviewer might offer a suggestion if he/she has concerns about the cache, but there really aren't any guidelines to enforce.

 

I doubt NDOT did a full risk management assessment either. The state of Nevada is unlikely to be sued if a geocacher pulling into the road without looking causes an accident. However, they are probably statutorily required to ensure certain highways safety standards. The number of cars stopping to find geocaches along the sides of the highway was a significant increase to the number of cars that were stopping before. It could be that a rural road where the number of cars that pull off and on the road is small does not need to have a wide shoulder, speed limit signs, or other controls that you would have on a road with many cars entering and exiting the flow of traffic. I doubt that NDOT did any traffic studies to see if the increased traffic meant the road wan not longer up to snuff, but by getting the caches archived they won't have to.

[+Student Camper]

I have been considering doing a portion of the ET trail just so I could say I was there but the thought of stopping on the shoulder of a highway every 528 feet, in the middle of the desert, with traffic, I don't care how sparse, passing at 70+ mph is not my idea of a good time.

every time a car is stopped on or along side the roadway, is an opportunity for an accident.

eventually, someone is going to do something stupid and it appears that is what has happened more than once.

The NDOT has identified a hazard and is putting a stop to it before someone gets killed.

The shoulder is provided and intended for EMERGENCY parking only, it is not intended for recreational or hobby parking.

and if you pull off far enough, you would then be driving in the desert, that probably would not be allowed either as it would create geotrails and other damage to the desert.

So, the numbers hounds should fess up, some of them screwed up and as a result, the trail is no more.

[+Happy Humphrey]

I wanted to eventually go to this series, I had dreams of finding 1k caches in a day only doing half and throwing down film cans. Thanks to Nevada transportation my dreams are crushed. They will get a VERY ANGRY LETTER in the mail!!!!!!!!!

Arf, arf! Very Good!

 

Dear Mr. Nevada Transport,

I have spent the last year working really hard, saving my money up, and the only thought keeping me going the whole time was that one day I'll be able to realise my dream of driving slowly along one of your roads, throwing plastic film containers out of the window and occasionally having a look in case someone else has done the same thing. Then, I would have had a happy couple of days back home reliving this experience and writing up the fate of each individual film can. Thanks for banning this and destroying my dreams! Now I have nothing to live for! How would you like it if I banned you from origami or something like that in my state?

 

Yours unhappily,

Angry Geocacher.

[Clan Riffster]

Sure the numbers were great, but what made it more memorable was the beautiful scenery, the people we met along the way and our group we were caching with that day.

Thank you for that well written post in favor of this series. It is refreshing to see that there are some folks who have done this without incorporating those practices which are so often reviled when done at non-power trail caches, but which seem to be perfectly acceptable when done on a numbers run. I agree wholeheartedly that caching with the right group, even if the caches themselves are not stellar, can be a lot of fun. I've got a group of friends I cache with, and on occasion, we'll load up and hunt whatever we come across, enjoying ourselves at even the easiest caches.

 

The part of your statement that made me curious was the "but" part. Knowing now what is out there, would you make such a journey if the caches were several miles apart? Say, for argument's sake, 30 caches along a 100 mile stretch of road? You would have even more time to enjoy the beautiful scenery, you could still meet great people along the way, and your group would be the same. The only factors that would change would be your total find count at the end of the run, and perhaps, the feeling of needing to rush.

 

If you would like to impact this situation positively, we suggest that you place caches with the land owner's or the land manager's permission. That is the relevant guideline for this situation. No other.

Hi MissJenn, I'm glad to see that this is being resolved with the assistance of the cache owner. I think there will be a lot fewer hurt feeling as a result of everyone working together, as opposed to the owners waking up one morning to find all their caches got nuked. Groundspeak showed a lot of class going that route. Slightly off topic: While it's probably not the first time a cache, (or several caches), were archived due to the owner placing them on a right of way without explicit permission, this is the first example I have personally seen. Locally, right of ways seem to be fair game, as the hiders I have talked to who hide caches along the shoulders of roads have all told me, without exception, that they did not seek explicit permission for their hides, believing that, since they are on right of ways, they already have adequate permission. Does this incident mean that Reviewers will be asking for explicit permission for caches placed on right of ways in the future, or does the permission issue stop at the Nevada border?

 

We will find other activities to engage our attention.

Rumor has it there are still a whole lot of really amazing caches to be found out there, that don't involve tossing film cans out car windows.

[+DanOCan]

How is the ET series any different from your garden variety guardrail-style cache? I will answer: Nothing other than theres a lot more of them.

 

The volume of caches encourages people to attempt to find as many of them in as short a time as possible. Look at the number of people who were talking about how many they could do in 24 hours. Any time you have people trying to do a repetitive task for a long stretch of time, as fast as possible and likely in a sleep deprived state bad things are bouend to happen.

 

Your typical garden variety guardrail cache is not likely to be part of a speed run so people will be more likely to take the time to find a proper place to park and be more aware of their surroundings.

[+redsox_mark]

We didn't look at like a quick 1000 cache pick up. We looked at it like something akin to the Amazing Race except for us as geocachers.

 

I thought all of the post of which I quoted a small part of above was excellent. I've not done and have/had no plans to do this series or one like it. I don't know if I would enjoy it or not. But I do understand that, whatever one thinks of series like this, that the large number of caches is part of the challenge. Driving the same road with the same people and finding 30 caches (or 3 caches) would not be the same. That doesn't mean that anyone doing such a series is a "numbers hound" or focussed on the numbers. They may just be fascinated with the "challenge" - can they manage to find complete it.

 

For me, an analogy is something I did many years ago. A friend and I went to a 24 hour showing of science fiction movies. Why did we do this? Sure we liked science fiction movies. But we did it mostly as a "crazy" thing to do. Could we stay awake? etc.

 

People will do a challenge because it's there. And whatever one thinks of it personally, completing such a series is a form of a challenge which takes some planning, effort, teamwork, etc. So I would not criticise anyone who has done the series or wishes to do it.

 

However - I do feel that the attraction of such series can cause issues due to the large number of people doing them, as well as doing so many caches in a compressed span of time can cause issues with fatigue, and possibly taking short cuts to complete the series.

[+Ecylram]

Regarding the repeated "throwing film cans out the window" slur...

 

Placing the ET series required a lot of planning, cooperation with Groundspeak, and manual labor. Collecting the containers, printing out the logs, and creating the website descriptions. If I recall correctly it took the team effort eight weeks to deploy the series across the 100-mile stretch of the highway.

 

That process included taking gps readings at each site and finding appropriate local materials to keep the containers from blowing away. The alien head was a particular challenge as the coordinates had to be calculated ahead of time.

 

You may not like power trails but to equate the CO's effort to "throwing film canisters out the window" is not right.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Ecylram

[+M 5]

Regarding the repeated "throwing film cans out the window" slur...

 

Placing the ET series required a lot of planning, cooperation with Groundspeak, and manual labor. Collecting the containers, printing out the logs, and creating the website descriptions. If I recall correctly it took the team effort eight weeks to deploy the series across the 100-mile stretch of the highway.

 

That process included taking gps readings at each site and finding appropriate local materials to keep the containers from blowing away. The alien head was a particular challenge as the coordinates had to be calculated ahead of time.

 

You may not like power trails but to equate the CO's effort to "throwing film canisters out the window" is not right.

 

I have never heard anyone say that the CO's threw film cans out the window. They also seem to have taken the high road on the discussion part of their series. They do however share in the blame, along with Groundspeak, for such an ill conceived series. They could have saved themselves all the time and effort by using a little more common sense. The alien head seems to be a much better series. I wonder when all the alien head driving started? From the start? Did it get worse when the ET Series was implemented? Don't know, but I am curious.

Edited March 3, 2011 by M 5

[+Ecylram]

I know that view fits with your opinion of power trails.

 

I have far greater concern regarding the slurs and rumors that have bren passed around this board in an attempt to get power trails banned.

[+M 5]

I know that view fits with your opinion of power trails.

 

I have far greater concern regarding the slurs and rumors that have bren passed around this board in an attempt to get power trails banned.

 

Then please don't start that rumor about the CO's. They have plenty of blame, but your accusation isn't accurate. I imagine that there might have been a stray comment or two saying the CO's threwdown caches, but that isn't the "repeated slur". That is directed more at the finders and the CO's condoning it. You are trying to villify the anti power trail cachers for starting rumors, by rumormongering yourself.

Edited March 3, 2011 by M 5

[+humboldt flier]

Risk management factors may have been at play with the decision by NDOT

 

Consider the potential liabilities the state may have been exposed to:

 

Exposure risks simply too large to ignore.

 

Sorry to be negative against the great people who give their time to be reviewers, but I would have thought that Risk Management factors would have been considered when the reviewer reviewed these caches for publication!

 

I know our local reviewers certainly do.

 

I am certain R/M issues were taken into account ... they might have been deemed acceptable at the inception. However, over time perhaps situations evolved and " red flags " started going up.

 

Time and circumstances in their relatedness change many things.

 

>>>>>>> I have a minor understanding understanding of the trail and what was entailed. >( been there and completed it )< I believe the speculation / name calling counts for squat. Regardless ... what we now have is a mess ...

 

As EC has alluded to in their recent postings: The trash talking on the part of some posters is rather old .

 

Let the dust settle. If we are not intimately involved with a situation we have nothing substantive to add to the situation.

 

Lets consider options to improve rather than decry and destroy.

 

>>>> Go ahead ... turn your flame throwers back on ... I know some of you want to <<<<

[+Cryptosporidium-623]

Sorry, I've lost track. What stage are we all supposed to be in now?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kübler-Ross_model

[+humboldt flier]

Sorry, I've lost track. What stage are we all supposed to be in now?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kübler-Ross_model

 

The healthier cachers should be approaching stage 5. However, the possibility of fluxing through Stages 1-5 will surface from time to time. A support group may be indicated, however, for a select few pharmaceutical intervention may be indicated

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Does anyone else chuckle when they read 'snowplow' and 'Nevada' in the same sentence?

It snows in every state, even Hawaii and Florida. Why would it be so funny that it snows in Nevada?

[+humboldt flier]

We didn't look at like a quick 1000 cache pick up. We looked at it like something akin to the Amazing Race except for us as geocachers.

 

I thought all of the post of which I quoted a small part of above was excellent. I've not done and have/had no plans to do this series or one like it. I don't know if I would enjoy it or not. But I do understand that, whatever one thinks of series like this, that the large number of caches is part of the challenge. Driving the same road with the same people and finding 30 caches (or 3 caches) would not be the same. That doesn't mean that anyone doing such a series is a "numbers hound" or focussed on the numbers. They may just be fascinated with the "challenge" - can they manage to find complete it.

 

For me, an analogy is something I did many years ago. A friend and I went to a 24 hour showing of science fiction movies. Why did we do this? Sure we liked science fiction movies. But we did it mostly as a "crazy" thing to do. Could we stay awake? etc.

 

People will do a challenge because it's there. And whatever one thinks of it personally, completing such a series is a form of a challenge which takes some planning, effort, teamwork, etc. So I would not criticise anyone who has done the series or wishes to do it.

 

However - I do feel that the attraction of such series can cause issues due to the large number of people doing them, as well as doing so many caches in a compressed span of time can cause issues with fatigue, and possibly taking short cuts to complete the series.

 

Hmmmmmmm,

As much as it hurts to be in agreement with a BoSox fan

He / She / They have hit the nail on the head.

Well stated.

 

Yankees fan at this end ... LOL

[Pup Patrol]

I wanted to eventually go to this series, I had dreams of finding 1k caches in a day only doing half and throwing down film cans. Thanks to Nevada transportation my dreams are crushed. They will get a VERY ANGRY LETTER in the mail!!!!!!!!!

Probably a very bad idea.

It will be well-written and I will use facts to back up my argument, rest assured it will be as civil as I can make it while still trying to say that I want something to change.

I'm not sure why one would expend energy on a letter ranting about a done deal.

 

The folks who should be involved have been involved. There have been discussions and agreements and concessions made.

 

Angry letters to officials in Nevada won't accomplish anything constructive. Perhaps they might accomplish very negative outcomes, in fact.

 

Groundspeak is dealing with the issues. They are in communication with the proper authorities, through proper channels.

 

Why try to disrupt that process, about something that is pretty much none of your business?

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I wanted to eventually go to this series, I had dreams of finding 1k caches in a day only doing half and throwing down film cans. Thanks to Nevada transportation my dreams are crushed. They will get a VERY ANGRY LETTER in the mail!!!!!!!!!

Probably a very bad idea.

It will be well-written and I will use facts to back up my argument, rest assured it will be as civil as I can make it while still trying to say that I want something to change.

I'm not sure why one would expend energy on a letter ranting about a done deal.

 

The folks who should be involved have been involved. There have been discussions and agreements and concessions made.

 

Angry letters to officials in Nevada won't accomplish anything constructive. Perhaps they might accomplish very negative outcomes, in fact.

 

Groundspeak is dealing with the issues. They are in communication with the proper authorities, through proper channels.

 

Why try to disrupt that process, about something that is pretty much none of your business?

I think you need to replace your sarcasm detector.

[+geodarts]

Sorry, I've lost track. What stage are we all supposed to be in now?

 

It doesn't matter. This thread is all the same, so feel free to pick a previous post and paste it here.

 

But actually, I am in the stage where I can appreciate the hard work it took to set up the ET series, think that both Groundspeak and the COs made some mistakes (based upon what Miss Jenn said), and hope the experience - as well as the Trail of the Gods - will help people in the future to evaluate what kind of permission (and cache maintenance plans) are needed before future megatrails are developed.

 

Other than that, my concerns are personal. How long would an ET trail geocoin last if I placed it in a cache? Whether the PDC will ever bring professional darts back to Las Vegas so I would have reason to visit the Alien Head? Do people really get their kicks on Route 66?

Edited March 3, 2011 by mulvaney

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Does anyone else chuckle when they read 'snowplow' and 'Nevada' in the same sentence?

It snows in every state, even Hawaii and Florida. Why would it be so funny that it snows in Nevada?

 

A few weeks ago I saw a weather report that indicated that on that day there was currently snow on the ground in 49 of the 50 US States. Florida was only exception. Mauna Kea, on the big island of Hawaii has an elevation of 13,796 feet so it's not too surprising that it gets some snow.

[+geodarts]

Mauna Kea, on the big island of Hawaii has an elevation of 13,796 feet so it's not too surprising that it gets some snow.

 

A few years ago, there was still some of the snowpack on the ground in July when we found My Stained Shorts, a relatively short distance from Vegas. There had been a late storm that year. Kids were playing around in it. The melt off was pretty. The city was over 105 degrees at the time. And the cache location was amazing. Even without the snow, it might be worth thinking about if it is a hot day and you are wondering what to do without the aliens.

Edited March 3, 2011 by mulvaney

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Does anyone else chuckle when they read 'snowplow' and 'Nevada' in the same sentence?

It snows in every state, even Hawaii and Florida. Why would it be so funny that it snows in Nevada?

 

A few weeks ago I saw a weather report that indicated that on that day there was currently snow on the ground in 49 of the 50 US States. Florida was only exception. Mauna Kea, on the big island of Hawaii has an elevation of 13,796 feet so it's not too surprising that it gets some snow.

Yeah, but Hawaii has nothing on the 14ers here.

 

Florida gets snow sometimes, but not enough to need snowplows. Nevada, on the other hand, does have mountains and even ski resorts, so not really funny that they would have snowplows there.

[+humboldt flier]

Sorry, I've lost track. What stage are we all supposed to be in now?

 

It doesn't matter. This thread is all the same, so feel free to pick a previous post and paste it here.

Do people really get their kicks on Route 66?

 

For an old time " Route 66 " experience wander over to Seligman, Arizona where there are experiences reminiscent of the old days along the " Mother Road ".

 

Seligman, Az. where revival and preservation of Route 66 has it's western roots.

 

Back to the regularly scheduled programing:

 

The area in and around Rachel, Nv. has much to offer. I will be going back for yet another visit this spring. Odd behavior from one who had typically despised the desert.

 

Will be visiting a number of the sites pointed out by Mulvaney

 

I enjoyed my E.T. Trail experience and will miss the logs of those who joined and shared a rather unique caching fraternity.