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Logging your own cache as a find


_Wolverine

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Now before anyone rants off on me, I only have 1 cache active and have not logged it as a find. But I am curious for those that might have 20,40 or even 100 caches of their own that after the FTF's have been logged where they have made it as their own "find"? Is that breaking the rules? Just curious what others thought.. it defeats the purpose of "finding" a cache if you're the one placing it but want to hear feedback from those who think differently..

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Typically, it is considered to be "in bad taste". Simply put, you hid it. One should certainly assume that you could find it -- you know where you put it (yes, they can 'wander'), but then too, you know exactly what the container is and looks like.

 

Don't consider this as a "flame", I just see it as not fitting into the true realm of a "find".

 

I have noticed one (certainly appropriate) exception... where one has "found" a cache, later to adopt that cache for whatever reason. That "find" should remain intact.

 

There are a fair number of people that have logged their own placement as a find. I think the primary reason is that they do not comprehend that CO visits really should be logged as either a "note" or "maintenance". It's all in the guidelines. Same thing (a "note") applies to re-visiting a cache for the purposes of moving/placing a Travel Bug or geocoin.

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Now before anyone rants off on me, I only have 1 cache active and have not logged it as a find. But I am curious for those that might have 20,40 or even 100 caches of their own that after the FTF's have been logged where they have made it as their own "find"? Is that breaking the rules? Just curious what others thought.. it defeats the purpose of "finding" a cache if you're the one placing it but want to hear feedback from those who think differently..

 

This topic comes up quite often. You can log a find on your own cache by why would you want to?

It breaks an etiquette rule that most people follow but there's nothing that prevents you from doing it.

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Ni!

 

Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to random forum posters. :P

 

Sorry... I HAD to.

 

Log your own cache as a find? Don't know too many cachers who do that (although I have met some). I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I believe that is not in the spirit of the game, and is not the way that I choose to play it.

 

To each his own, though. In the end, your statistics should be for YOU... Know what I mean? :)

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Ni!

 

Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to random forum posters. :P

 

Sorry... I HAD to.

 

Log your own cache as a find? Don't know too many cachers who do that (although I have met some). I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I believe that is not in the spirit of the game, and is not the way that I choose to play it.

 

To each his own, though. In the end, your statistics should be for YOU... Know what I mean? :)

 

Ni in these forums goes back to last year, and some guy who Geocided and changed his username to XXXRIPXXX. Wow, that sounds really strange. It's true though. :ph34r:

 

So the Original poster has seen a sizeable amount of people logging their own caches as finds? Personally, I find this to be extremely rare, in the teeny little fraction of 1% range. That won't stop the "you can play any way you want" crowd from saying it's OK though. :D

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The website certainly will allow you to log your own caches and I think there are some extermely rare but legit reasons for doing so. However, for the most part, the majority of Geocachers find the practice of logging your own caches to be quite cheesy. After all, you hid it and so knew where it was - hard to call that a "find".

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The only reason I can see for this is something I noticed on the weekend. My phone does not differentiate between unfound caches and my own caches. It shows my caches as ones I haven't found in the area.

 

Although this doesn't ever mean i'll log my own as a find, but that's the only logical reason I can see for doing so.

Sounds like the wrong solution to the right problem (does that make sense?). The right solution would be to get better software for the phone :P

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Ni in these forums goes back to last year, and some guy who Geocided and changed his username to XXXRIPXXX. Wow, that sounds really strange. It's true though. :ph34r:

 

So the Original poster has seen a sizeable amount of people logging their own caches as finds? Personally, I find this to be extremely rare, in the teeny little fraction of 1% range. That won't stop the "you can play any way you want" crowd from saying it's OK though. :D

 

Wow. Just... wow. I believe you, only because you can't possibly make something like that up. :blink:

 

My experience with self-loggers has been extremely rare, also. I have met 2 people (I distinctly remember them)... They were like Bizzaro-Us - whatever we did, they did it differently... to the point of being annoying. I hate to say that, but we just couldn't be around them anymore. It was terrible. Aside from being self-loggers (which I wouldn't completely condemn them for), they rifled across the ground, tossing rocks and sticks everywhere - on more than one occasion, we actually saw them stick a log back into a ZipLoc Bag and not zip it before they returned it. :blink: We had to discretely return to them later in the day to fix them, ourselves.

 

I guess it goes back to what ethics you believe in, whether it's self-logging, or other points of contention.

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Even though you are the owner, you WILL have to sign it to find it, however it is considered poor form. You may have to endure laughter, taunting, and ultimately, shunning. Cachers will spit on you and give you nasty glares. People will take your pic and send it out to the local Crips, Bloods, MS-13, Mafia, OTO and the Ilumminaughty. There are medical reports about it causing blindness and hair to grow on your palms. But if you feel it is the right thing to do, then stand up and do it. Don't be swayed by the status quo, be your own man. Say dagnabbit, someone has to take a stand. It's nobody's business but your own. There are much worse things anyway, such as playing devil's advocate, online angst, strawman arguements, entitlement, puritans, number hounds, Nazis, extremist democrats or republicans, lame micros, lame virts...but there are no rules, and there is most likely something in the guidelines about it even though it is CHEATING, but - cheating nobody but yourself. You also need to know the secret geocacher handshake and avoid hiding LPCs. Topics like this give a black eye to geocaching, but it's on the other site also. Think about free donuts, Waymarking and the chinldren. :rolleyes:

 

Congrats to JBnW for winning BINGO :D

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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I will add a squirrel into this discussion.

 

The other day I found a newly published cache (was second to find). As I waited to post a log for it, someone who was there when it was placed logged it as a find.

 

So, can you actually claim a find when you are there when it was placed?

Again, I wouldn't and I think most cacher's (that I have ever met) would find that a bit of a cheesy thing to do.

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While there is no 'rule' for/against it, it is considered 'bad form' to log your own cache as a find. Events are an exception though, as it seems pretty normal to log your own events as 'attended' without anyone batting an eye about it.

 

I have logged a few caches that I own - but I consider them as exceptions. They were ones that I found, then later adopted from the original cache owners.

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I will add a squirrel into this discussion.

 

The other day I found a newly published cache (was second to find). As I waited to post a log for it, someone who was there when it was placed logged it as a find.

 

So, can you actually claim a find when you are there when it was placed?

 

This would not bother me at all, unless of course the cacher logged the FTF. But that would only bother me for about 5 seconds.. I'd then make a mental note of the cache hider's philosophy and move on with my life.

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It really doesn't matter, and the only people who are bothered by it are those who operate under the delusion that they are competing with everybody else and insist on looking for "cheating" in completely benign, neutral actions.

 

If someone asks the question it must matter to him. When I see a table setting the side of the plate the fork is placed on doesn't bother me. However if someone visits a forum where dining is being discussed and asks about table setting etiquette, my telling him that it doesn't matter would not be helpful. Nor would my framing anybody who tries to answer his question accurately as delusional be particularly gracious.

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Like others, I have a few caches that I found and adopted. But, let me throw another spin on this question.

 

I have a terrain 5 cache out that requires an extraordinary degree of personal courage to get to. It's not hard to find, it's just darn hard to decide if you really want to go get it. So a "find" log says nothing--nothing at all about a cacher's hunting skills. A find on this cache is solely a personal badge of honor that says "I went there." Well, in this case, couldn't a hider reasonably log the cache? The hider had to pass the same test that the finders did, and knowing where the cache was gave him/her no advantage whatsoever. I didn't log mine in this case, I'm just suggesting that some might feel justified in doing so. Every time I go there to do maintenance, I sure think about it.

 

I can actually take the argument one step further. I have probably found 400-500 "gimmes"... D:1 and D:1.5 caches where the moment you got within 60 feet of the GZ you said "look, there it is!" Again, logging a find on this cache does not in anyway imply your skils were "up to the challenge". Really, all you did was show up. Couldn't the same argument be applied? Saying "it's no fair cuz the hider already knew where it was" doesn't hold as much sway if the truth is, everyone within a mile can tell where it is.

 

I'm not proposing that anyone log their own (I don't)... Just thinking out loud. Sometimes "I found it" means "I had to search for it, and my searching skills were up to the test." But lots of times, it doesn't mean that at all. It just means "I, like you, was there once."

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Like others, I have a few caches that I found and adopted. But, let me throw another spin on this question.

 

I have a terrain 5 cache out that requires an extraordinary degree of personal courage to get to. It's not hard to find, it's just darn hard to decide if you really want to go get it. So a "find" log says nothing--nothing at all about a cacher's hunting skills. A find on this cache is solely a personal badge of honor that says "I went there." Well, in this case, couldn't a hider reasonably log the cache? The hider had to pass the same test that the finders did, and knowing where the cache was gave him/her no advantage whatsoever. I didn't log mine in this case, I'm just suggesting that some might feel justified in doing so. Every time I go there to do maintenance, I sure think about it.

 

I can actually take the argument one step further. I have probably found 400-500 "gimmes"... D:1 and D:1.5 caches where the moment you got within 60 feet of the GZ you said "look, there it is!" Again, logging a find on this cache does not in anyway imply your skils were "up to the challenge". Really, all you did was show up. Couldn't the same argument be applied? Saying "it's no fair cuz the hider already knew where it was" doesn't hold as much sway if the truth is, everyone within a mile can tell where it is.

 

I'm not proposing that anyone log their own (I don't)... Just thinking out loud. Sometimes "I found it" means "I had to search for it, and my searching skills were up to the test." But lots of times, it doesn't mean that at all. It just means "I, like you, was there once."

 

Doesn't the fact that you hid the cache say "you went there and your skills were up to the challenge?".

Edited by briansnat
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It really doesn't matter, and the only people who are bothered by it are those who operate under the delusion that they are competing with everybody else and insist on looking for "cheating" in completely benign, neutral actions.

 

If someone asks the question it must matter to him. When I see a table setting the side of the plate the fork is placed on doesn't bother me. However if someone visits a forum where dining is being discussed and asks about table setting etiquette, my telling him that it doesn't matter would not be helpful. Nor would my framing anybody who tries to answer his question accurately as delusional be particularly gracious.

When people ask in the getting starting forum, I generally stay out of it. But were I to reply it would be something like the Groundspeak Knowledge Book on the subject

It is considered "bad form" to log a find on your own cache, no matter when you do it. The same is true if you re-visit another traditional cache (for example to place or retrieve a travel bug). Use the "post a note" log option to record your visit in these circumstances.

That lets someone know that "write note" can be used for reporting that you "found" or visited your own cache and that is will be less controversial than logging a Found log.

 

When the question is asked in the General section, by someone who has been caching for nearly 8 years, I have to wonder why.

 

Experienced cachers should know what narcissa is saying - that you aren't competing with other cachers for a "find count" score. That it doesn't really matter if someone else is doing this. Experienced cachers can decide if they want to or not. They already know that it considered "bad form" by many. If they still want to log a find on their own cache - that's their decision. And if someone else is logging a find on their own cache then they shouldn't let themselves be bothered by it. You are free to comment that you think it is bad form or that the Found log should only be use when you find a cache where you didn't already know where it was hidden. But it is also just as meaningful to argue that it isn't all that important what other people do.

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There are a few cases I've run into where you'' find a VALID find on a cache by the owner.

Sometimes the owner has ADOPTED the cache but had found it prior to owning it. Very acceptable.

 

I have actually seen case where people (local to each other) swap ownership of caches JUST SO THEY CAN LOG the FIND.

This is crazy but if they want to waste their time doing, so be it...

 

I THINK the system should NOT allow the owner to log a FIND unless it's an event cache.

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If someone asks the question it must matter to him. When I see a table setting the side of the plate the fork is placed on doesn't bother me. However if someone visits a forum where dining is being discussed and asks about table setting etiquette, my telling him that it doesn't matter would not be helpful. Nor would my framing anybody who tries to answer his question accurately as delusional be particularly gracious.

 

Analogy fail. There is no consensus on this issue, it isn't addressed by Groundspeak's rules OR functions - dining etiquette for an establishment or a social group is usually codified to some extent. The ladies who organize the cotillion ball don't hack it out in a forum every time they need to set a table and send invitations - they have a rule book.

 

I certainly wouldn't characterize someone as delusional who did answer in an accurate manner, but this is not the case. There are no prohibitions in rules or functionality, and if you believe otherwise, you must be deluded, or misinformed. Given the considerable geocaching experience and guideline knowledge possessed by many of the people espousing these falsehoods, "delusional" is the correct choice.

 

Pointing out the facts is a far more valid response than the dreadful things you've been insinuating about people who do something completely neutral with no impact on others.

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Pointing out the facts is a far more valid response than the dreadful things you've been insinuating about people who do something completely neutral with no impact on others.

 

So would you consider these facts accurate?

 

1 - There is no rule against logging your own caches, and the system will allow you to do it.

 

2 - If you do choose to log your own caches, some people might make fun of you and some people might think badly of you. Most people will neither know or care.

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The only reason I can see for this is something I noticed on the weekend. My phone does not differentiate between unfound caches and my own caches. It shows my caches as ones I haven't found in the area.

 

Although this doesn't ever mean i'll log my own as a find, but that's the only logical reason I can see for doing so.

Sounds like the wrong solution to the right problem (does that make sense?). The right solution would be to get better software for the phone :P

 

Too bad i'm using the official Groundspeak App (Paid $10 for it!)

 

Edited to add:

 

for iPhone 4. I only use it when caching without the GPS if i'm out and have time.

Edited by MoonCat & KDT
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The only reason I can see for this is something I noticed on the weekend. My phone does not differentiate between unfound caches and my own caches. It shows my caches as ones I haven't found in the area.

 

Although this doesn't ever mean i'll log my own as a find, but that's the only logical reason I can see for doing so.

Sounds like the wrong solution to the right problem (does that make sense?). The right solution would be to get better software for the phone :P

 

Too bad i'm using the official Groundspeak App (Paid $10 for it!)

 

 

Unless the iPhone app is different from the Android app, the problem is not with the app. You just don't have it set up properly. Look for a "settings" menu, and look for an entry labeled "Hide Finds," and make sure that is turned on.

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If someone asks the question it must matter to him. When I see a table setting the side of the plate the fork is placed on doesn't bother me. However if someone visits a forum where dining is being discussed and asks about table setting etiquette, my telling him that it doesn't matter would not be helpful. Nor would my framing anybody who tries to answer his question accurately as delusional be particularly gracious.

 

Analogy fail. There is no consensus on this issue, it isn't addressed by Groundspeak's rules OR functions - dining etiquette for an establishment or a social group is usually codified to some extent. The ladies who organize the cotillion ball don't hack it out in a forum every time they need to set a table and send invitations - they have a rule book.

 

I certainly wouldn't characterize someone as delusional who did answer in an accurate manner, but this is not the case. There are no prohibitions in rules or functionality, and if you believe otherwise, you must be deluded, or misinformed. Given the considerable geocaching experience and guideline knowledge possessed by many of the people espousing these falsehoods, "delusional" is the correct choice.

 

Pointing out the facts is a far more valid response than the dreadful things you've been insinuating about people who do something completely neutral with no impact on others.

 

There is indeed a consensus on the issue. Every time this subject is broached here, the bulk of the respondents will say that it is not a generally accepted norm. Groundspeak's knowledge books support that view, and all it takes is a peek at random cache pages to see that the overwhelming majority of cache owners do not do it. So fact of the matter is that the mores of the community come down against the practice.

 

Therefore the most helpful answer would be to tell the person who asks the question that it is not a generally accepted practice to log your own caches.

 

As far as the "dreadful things" I've been insinuating, I'd like to know what they are. My posts here and elsewhere on the subject only insinuate (and sometimes state outright) that I think the practice is silly. There is nothing "dreadful" about silliness, at least in my world.

Edited by briansnat
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If someone asks the question it must matter to him. When I see a table setting the side of the plate the fork is placed on doesn't bother me. However if someone visits a forum where dining is being discussed and asks about table setting etiquette, my telling him that it doesn't matter would not be helpful. Nor would my framing anybody who tries to answer his question accurately as delusional be particularly gracious.

 

Analogy fail. There is no consensus on this issue, it isn't addressed by Groundspeak's rules OR functions - dining etiquette for an establishment or a social group is usually codified to some extent. The ladies who organize the cotillion ball don't hack it out in a forum every time they need to set a table and send invitations - they have a rule book.

 

I certainly wouldn't characterize someone as delusional who did answer in an accurate manner, but this is not the case. There are no prohibitions in rules or functionality, and if you believe otherwise, you must be deluded, or misinformed. Given the considerable geocaching experience and guideline knowledge possessed by many of the people espousing these falsehoods, "delusional" is the correct choice.

 

Pointing out the facts is a far more valid response than the dreadful things you've been insinuating about people who do something completely neutral with no impact on others.

 

OK -

fact - the system allows you to do it

fact - there is no guideline or rule against it

 

fact - the vast majority of Geocachers do not do it

fact - I find the practice cheesey

fact - the vast majority of folks in this forum find the practice cheesy

fact - the majority of responders to this thread find the practice cheesy

fact - the vast majority of cachers I know find the practice cheesy

fact - the Groundspeak Knowledgebooks recommend not doing it

fact - many club websites say not to do it

fact - most all Geocaching books advise against the practice

 

Conclusion - I recommend to cachers that ask - "Don't do it"

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The only reason I can see for this is something I noticed on the weekend. My phone does not differentiate between unfound caches and my own caches. It shows my caches as ones I haven't found in the area.

 

Although this doesn't ever mean i'll log my own as a find, but that's the only logical reason I can see for doing so.

Sounds like the wrong solution to the right problem (does that make sense?). The right solution would be to get better software for the phone :P

Too bad i'm using the official Groundspeak App (Paid $10 for it!)

So the right solution is to learn to use the software you have? :P

 

03ca6f83-2e5b-4768-9a07-86fb571538e6.jpg

 

Your hides are treated as "finds" and that will hide them too.

Edited by Avernar
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Pointing out the facts is a far more valid response than the dreadful things you've been insinuating about people who do something completely neutral with no impact on others.

 

So would you consider these facts accurate?

 

1 - There is no rule against logging your own caches, and the system will allow you to do it.

 

2 - If you do choose to log your own caches, some people might make fun of you and some people might think badly of you. Most people will neither know or care.

 

I think this about sums it up. For some bizarre reason, some people really get their feathers ruffled about this mildly-doofusish but essentially harmless action, even going so far as to use their moderator/reviewer credentials to insinuate that it is against the rules when, in fact, it is not.

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... to insinuate that it is against the rules when, in fact, it is not.

 

Might want to keep up to date with the knowledgebooks - which are incorporated into the guidelines.

 

see: http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=80

 

Might want to keep up to date with the feedback forum, where a proposal to disallow found logs by owners was recently rejected.

 

...however not logging your own caches is indeed incorporated into the site's knowledgebook - which is as close to rules as we've got around here. That was my only point.

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I have been wondering lately why folks here are so worried about a cacher "cheating" by logging a cache they own as a find yet defending 1,000 or so finds on a power trail as legitimate finds and an acceptible way to cache. I know, the finders did not place the caches in the power trails. But they found essentially the same hide over and over and over again. It seems that in some cases they took the cache they found and left another. How in the world does a finder know what they did or did not find when things like this are going on? There can be any number of reasons for a cache owner to log their own hide as a find. There really can be only one reason for cachers to log 1,000 or so caches on a power trail. Numbers padding. It may be an excellent adventure but the only real reason to do it is to add many, many finds in a short period of time. Numbers padding. If it isn't about numbers padding the cachers would be mapping out 24 hour caching routes to find as many caches as they can in their local areas, which is still numbers chasing, but not numbers padding.

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I have been wondering lately why folks here are so worried about a cacher "cheating" by logging a cache they own as a find yet defending 1,000 or so finds on a power trail as legitimate finds and an acceptible way to cache. I know, the finders did not place the caches in the power trails. But they found essentially the same hide over and over and over again. It seems that in some cases they took the cache they found and left another. How in the world does a finder know what they did or did not find when things like this are going on? There can be any number of reasons for a cache owner to log their own hide as a find. There really can be only one reason for cachers to log 1,000 or so caches on a power trail. Numbers padding. It may be an excellent adventure but the only real reason to do it is to add many, many finds in a short period of time. Numbers padding. If it isn't about numbers padding the cachers would be mapping out 24 hour caching routes to find as many caches as they can in their local areas, which is still numbers chasing, but not numbers padding.

 

I doubt you'll find many, if any cacher, that is against logging your own cache, that is also pro power trail.

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I also think its bad form.

It happens in my area, I once told the person that he shouldnt sign his own caches and the answer I got is that its their cache and he can... I left it at that...

 

Anyway, something that people forget is that numbers bring statut.

How many of you will give the same respect to a cacher with 100 finds compared to someone with 10000 finds?

 

So in a way the game is about the numbers. Numbers gets you respect and allow you to climb the geocaching community ladder. :)

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