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How can I get my family to like geocaching?


jacob501

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I am a teenager so I usually just ask my parents if I can go and find a cache while we are out somewhere. They don't exactly "like" it so they don't usually get out and help me find it. They are fine with it but never act like it could actually be a hobby of mine. They bought me a nice (cheap) 80 dollar gps for my birthday but over the course of one or two years I have only found 30 caches. If I had my own car and could go out by myself I probably would've found about 200 by now. I mean...its okay but its kind of awkward especially around my sister. The first time that I went geocaching (my grandparents told us about it) me and my sister and my went to go find a few that were near our house. We found our first two and my sister and I were really excited about it. But then we went and we couldn't find some other ones because we only had a car gps. And ever since then my sister has thought it is kind of dumb.

 

I always wonder how other people know each other so well (like they always say I went on a cache run with this person and him and her and that person)...I guess they just meet each other at events, but my parents would probably never take me to one of those.

 

I wish there was some way I could make my family like geocaching or just for it to be less awkward around them.

 

Does anybody know how I could do that?

Edited by jacob501
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I don't know what your parents are like, but maybe try framing it as "This is a good way for us to spend time together as a family."

 

There are a lot of teenagers out there who go out of their way to avoid interacting with their families at all, and I hope your family can appreciate that having a teenager who WANTS to do things with them is pretty awesome. I hope my son still wants to do things with me when he's a teenager!

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I don't know what your parents are like, but maybe try framing it as "This is a good way for us to spend time together as a family."

 

There are a lot of teenagers out there who go out of their way to avoid interacting with their families at all, and I hope your family can appreciate that having a teenager who WANTS to do things with them is pretty awesome. I hope my son still wants to do things with me when he's a teenager!

thats what I was gunna say

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Ask them to go with you. Explicity look them in the eye and ask them to join you. Tell them you actually WANT to spend time with them doing this. Tell them you would enjoy thier company while caching. Tell them how much fun finding a cache is. Tell them about the spots caches might be. Ask them for assistance in solving a puzzle cache or with preparing a hide. Really mean it. Then do it.

 

I would hope and pray they would respond to that kind of request.

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Since your sister has shown interest in it in the past, you might try more with her.

 

Now that you've got the GPS, hand it to her. Let her do the hunting. Let her find some. Act like you're looking for it, but let her look in the places that are most likely so she'll find it.

If you run out and find them all she won't be interested. Letting her get the thrill of the find is the best way to get her hooked.

 

Perhaps if the both of you are into it then your parents will be more interested.

 

Notice what types of things your parents are into.

Do they like history? (history caches)

Do they like working puzzles? (ask them for some help on some puzzles)(working on puzzles with your father, for instance, would be a good way for father-son time, and then if he works a few of them, he might get the itch to go and find them afterward, or at least be more willing to take you there)

Do they like scenic places? (look for caches at scenic places)

 

Figure out what interests them, and then try to find some caches that will interest them.

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Have to say this... it's a personal thing.

We know a number of families that only some of them like caching.

My family LOVES fishing and they get a kick out of going along -- none of them fish, just me. Go figure.

 

Just because you like it, doesn't mean that others will, including parents or siblings.

 

Everybody has their own horn and toots it the way they see fit.

 

Perchance you might find a friend that likes to go caching? How about finding another nearby cacher as a friend?

 

Whatever the case, if you enjoy it you should do it

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I am a teenager so I usually just ask my parents if I can go and find a cache while we are out somewhere. They don't exactly "like" it so they don't usually get out and help me find it. They are fine with it but never act like it could actually be a hobby of mine. They bought me a nice (cheap) 80 dollar gps for my birthday but over the course of one or two years I have only found 30 caches. If I had my own car and could go out by myself I probably would've found about 200 by now. I mean...its okay but its kind of awkward especially around my sister. The first time that I went geocaching (my grandparents told us about it) me and my sister and my went to go find a few that were near our house. We found our first two and my sister and I were really excited about it. But then we went and we couldn't find some other ones because we only had a car gps. And ever since then my sister has thought it is kind of dumb.

 

I always wonder how other people know each other so well (like they always say I went on a cache run with this person and him and her and that person)...I guess they just meet each other at events, but my parents would probably never take me to one of those.

 

I wish there was some way I could make my family like geocaching or just for it to be less awkward around them.

 

Does anybody know how I could do that?

It surprises me that your parents aren't interested in getting out of the house with you and enjoying a day on the trails. Most parents can't seem to get their kids away from their computer games, cell phones or Facebook. Good for you! Don't become disillusioned. Maintain your interest in this great pastime and continue to remind your parents of it's healthy virtues and they'll eventually come around. By the way, my 34 year old son (I'm 62) still says "geek alert" when I talk about geocaching but I really regret having not discovered this wonderful activity many years ago.

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ITA with pp, a direct conversation is best. Tell them this is really important to you and that you want to spend time together. Try to find locations that you think they will enjoy.

 

There's many different types of geocaches, as you know. Perhaps your parents are interested in solving puzzles or perhaps they are interested in going on hikes? Or perhaps just hanging out at a lake while you look for caches. Or perhaps they would be interested in a night-cache?

 

I've taken a number of different people geocaching and I've found that unless I let them hold the GPS, they don't 'get it'. So perhaps you could select a cache and hand the GPS over to one of your parents (or sister) and let them find the cache! I think this is really important. You may also want to take them to the larger caches that are easier to find. I"ve found my family doesn't get too excited over micros and nanos.

 

If your family isn't interested, I would say, find a friend to go with, preferaly someone with a driver's license. :D

 

Good luck!

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...If your family isn't interested, I would say, find a friend to go with, preferaly someone with a driver's license. :D

 

Good luck!

 

This was my thought, too. Have you any slightly older relatives nearby, who drive and might be happy to help you out?

 

I do sympathise with you, though.

 

Maybe when you see an event happening in your area you could ask your parents if they would take you along, just for an hour or so. Then they could at least meet some local geocachers and realise that they're just a crowd of ordinary folks, of varying ages.

 

In the meantime, you get to participate by posting in these forums (I thought your OP was very good, btw) and another way you might like to get involved is by releasing a travel bug.

 

Also, you might get your parents to read through this topic later so they can read the responses.

 

Good luck to you, I hope you'll stick with the hobby.

 

MrsB

(Wales, UK)

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I thought this was going to be a "How do we get the children interested" thread...

 

Instead it's a "How do I get my parents interested" thread!

 

I say try to get them to a few events, having met a few of the locals 'face to face' they may let you go caching with them -especially if they have children your age to go with...

 

Good Luck with the quest to get more caches!

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Hi Jacob,

 

A reality in life is that you really don't have control over other people. You can't make them like something whether it be geocaching or something else.And that's OK. We all have our likes and dislikes. At 17, your sister has got a lot going on right now and geocaching with her little brother isn't going to be high on the list.

 

Reading your post, I'm guessing your real question is "How can I get out and geocache more?" This is where you need to get creative. See if you can find schoolmates that might be interested. They may have a parent that would drive you around sometime.

 

Looking at your finds, I take it you live near Raleigh, NC. They have a bus system that you can use to get around the city to grab caches. I know of a number of adults who use buses to go caching.

 

Another good option is to get involved with the North Carolina Geocachers Organization. You can probably find parents & teenagers that might like having another body around. Also, go to events where you can meet other geocachers. You might be able to find some people who would enjoy taking you with them on geocaching runs. In the events I've been to, the geocachers have been very, very friendly and I've gone caching with people I've met through the events.

 

Another thing, I grab a lot of my caches while I'm out running errands. If your parents have to go to the store or have an appointment someplace, look on the web for a nearby cache. Then tag along and grab a cache while they are doing their thing. As long as you're ready to go when they are, I'll bet they won't mind.

 

Throw all the above ideas together and you should be busy geocaching in no time. You can't control the likes and dislikes of those around you but you have the ability to be creative in getting your geocaching kicks in. Good luck!!

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Hi Jacob,

 

A reality in life is that you really don't have control over other people. You can't make them like something whether it be geocaching or something else.And that's OK. We all have our likes and dislikes. At 17, your sister has got a lot going on right now and geocaching with her little brother isn't going to be high on the list.

 

Reading your post, I'm guessing your real question is "How can I get out and geocache more?" This is where you need to get creative. See if you can find schoolmates that might be interested. They may have a parent that would drive you around sometime.

 

Looking at your finds, I take it you live near Raleigh, NC. They have a bus system that you can use to get around the city to grab caches. I know of a number of adults who use buses to go caching.

 

Another good option is to get involved with the North Carolina Geocachers Organization. You can probably find parents & teenagers that might like having another body around. Also, go to events where you can meet other geocachers. You might be able to find some people who would enjoy taking you with them on geocaching runs. In the events I've been to, the geocachers have been very, very friendly and I've gone caching with people I've met through the events.

 

Another thing, I grab a lot of my caches while I'm out running errands. If your parents have to go to the store or have an appointment someplace, look on the web for a nearby cache. Then tag along and grab a cache while they are doing their thing. As long as you're ready to go when they are, I'll bet they won't mind.

 

Throw all the above ideas together and you should be busy geocaching in no time. You can't control the likes and dislikes of those around you but you have the ability to be creative in getting your geocaching kicks in. Good luck!!

 

Thanks for the great input!!

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Well actually my sister is older than me and she is almost 17. I just turned 14. The only time I really even ask my parents if I can go is if she's not in the car with us. And if I'm at home I always try to look on geocaching.com when shes not in the room. If she does come in then I quickly close it and have something else ready like my email to act like I was doing something (she's usually coming to ask me if she can have the computer to do her "homework" so I can't just minimize it). If I handed her the gps and asked her if she wanted to come I have no clue what she would say because I have never really even talked to her about it in one conversation face to face. The only time she's noticed something I've done is when I brought home a Buzz Lightyear TB and a Mater TB. She came home and saw them on the kitchen counter and was like "OMG that is so cool!" because she loves mater and just about every other disney movie you can think of.

 

I don't think she really minds me doing it...she is smart enough to guess that I am doing it with my mom usually. But she doesn't really want to anymore and she would probably think I'm weird if I suddenly asked her and started talking to her about it. Honestly I think she's decided that its kind of a "geek thing" too, like somebody else said in an earlier post.

 

i have to ask...why do you feel the need to hide it from your sister that you enjoy geocaching?

 

just seems a bit weird to me, at least the way you presented it above, as if she's calling the shots on what you and the rest of the family does lol

 

a very important thing in life is to realize that we are each unique and unless we are doing something illegal, we need to accept each other for who we are, can't go through life hiding who you are

 

other than that there's great advice on this thread

 

you mentioned that your grandparents introduced you to geocaching, can't you join them more often?

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I am a teenager so I usually just ask my parents if I can go and find a cache while we are out somewhere. They don't exactly "like" it so they don't usually get out and help me find it. They are fine with it but never act like it could actually be a hobby of mine. They bought me a nice (cheap) 80 dollar gps for my birthday but over the course of one or two years I have only found 30 caches. If I had my own car and could go out by myself I probably would've found about 200 by now. I mean...its okay but its kind of awkward especially around my sister. The first time that I went geocaching (my grandparents told us about it) me and my sister and my went to go find a few that were near our house. We found our first two and my sister and I were really excited about it. But then we went and we couldn't find some other ones because we only had a car gps. And ever since then my sister has thought it is kind of dumb.

 

I always wonder how other people know each other so well (like they always say I went on a cache run with this person and him and her and that person)...I guess they just meet each other at events, but my parents would probably never take me to one of those.

 

I wish there was some way I could make my family like geocaching or just for it to be less awkward around them.

 

Does anybody know how I could do that?

 

Speaking as a father of teenagers I would love it if my teens would cache with me more. They will go sometimes but I have to drag them along. There are so many things that a teenager can be "into" that are NOT of value. I commend you for finding a wholesome and active activity for your hobby.

Try this. Tell your parents that many kids your age spend hours of worthless time in front of the TV watching mindless shows filled with questionable material or playing a video game with senseless violence. Tell them this hobby keeps you active, fit, and away from drugs. As a parent, this would hit me hard enough to go with you every day.

 

Good luck!

 

WB

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Jacob...You seem like a nice guy that any family would be proud to have as a member. I checked out your cache, you did a very professional job on the listing. The other posters gave you lots of good advise. The folks that found your cache seem to like it and they have lots of caches under their belts. It is also on two bookmark lists. You might try contacting the list owners as they are likely close to your area. Send them a polite email explaining who you are and that you are 14 and having a hard time getting around to go caching and would like to meet other cachers in the area. They may be able to help or put you in touch with other local cachers, maybe a family with teenage kids. You could also add a note on your cache page asking if other local cachers would like to contact you to go caching. How about starting a caching club at school? If your school has a paper maybe you could write an article telling others about how cool caching is.

Good luck and happy caching, Post again and let us all know how you are doing.

Wiseye

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Sometimes you just have to wait until your time comes.

 

My parents were very relaxed and allowed me to go on many adventures (that could have been disasters) by myself and with others they respected. A bicycle can get you quite far from home and deep in trouble if you aren't careful!

 

If your family members just can't get interested, perhaps there is another cacher in your area who wouldn't mind some company on caching trips?

 

I am absolutely NOT suggesting you sneak off to cache with a stranger! Your candidate partner must be willing to meet with your parents who must approve of what you are doing.

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i have to ask...why do you feel the need to hide it from your sister that you enjoy geocaching?

 

just seems a bit weird to me, at least the way you presented it above, as if she's calling the shots on what you and the rest of the family does lol

I know absolutely nothing about the OP or his family, but I don't find it weird at all. Do you have an older sibling who's about 17 years old? Some of them can be pretty ruthless about teasing younger siblings. This may not be the case here, and there are likely many other scenarios as well.

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i have to ask...why do you feel the need to hide it from your sister that you enjoy geocaching?

 

just seems a bit weird to me, at least the way you presented it above, as if she's calling the shots on what you and the rest of the family does lol

I know absolutely nothing about the OP or his family, but I don't find it weird at all. Do you have an older sibling who's about 17 years old? Some of them can be pretty ruthless about teasing younger siblings. This may not be the case here, and there are likely many other scenarios as well.

 

i wish i was at the age where i could have a 17 year old sibling :P

however the teasing and disapproval happens at any age, i experienced it on my own skin and i'm not a teenager anymore, nor where the people teasing and judging me, standing my ground and ignoring their attitude eventually made them back off

if he doesn't hide every time she walks in the room, either she will loose interest or in a more desirable scenario it will peak her interest

 

the point is that the teasing gets only worse if you chose to "hide" and don't stand strong for who you are

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Listen brah, from one teenager to another, I feel yah. Just don't let it bother you. If you were confident about geocaching maybe your parents would take ya. I know that I ride my bike allllll over to get caches. I too am not old enough to drive, only my permit, soooo close. And honestly I like riding my bike a lot more. Ask your parents to drop you off at local cache trail. If you need anymore advice let me know. I met a lot of cachers from going to events, they really help. Also be active in your cache community, ask other cachers to team up to make a geocache!

Another idea, tell your friends about it. I know that my friends think it's hilarious to see me look for a geocache and they help me out. I always ask them to come along with and while they're not gonna go get 20 or 30 with me, they like the fun of search. Don't shut down as soon as your sister makes fun of you, jab back at her, making fun of her Facebook posts or the newest hot guy at school. Also another trick I found that works is make it seem like they are the ones who are dumb for NOT enjoying geocaching! "Wow, you're missing out!" or "Do you know how popular this is around the world!" Also over exaggerate a little, show them really cool geocaches on the top of Mt. Everest or ones 100 feet under water! I know when I show my friends crazy five star ones they always ask me when I'm gonna go get it, hahah. It's all about having fun, so that's what you need to do!!!!!

 

Email me if you have anymore questions,

Your 15 year old buddy!

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This doesn't answer your question at all... but I totally agree with the last poster who mentioned biking! It will severely limit your cache count, but if the cache density is low where you live this is actually a good thing. I went crazy when I moved to my new town in Missouri and cleared out almost all the caches close to home in a short time. Now I'm trying to fill in my date grid and I have to drive a long ways to make a sure find. Anyway, I'm straying from the point. I moved away to college a year after I started caching. I didn't have a car, but I was still able to cache by biking and running (and occasionally taking the train, I was in a city).

 

I can totally empathize with your situation. My family tolerates my caching, but they get annoyed easily, especially if we don't find the cache quickly. It's best to choose easy, non-micro caches when we're together.

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Glad you are enjoying geocaching Jacob! And I wish my teenagers shared your enthusiasm for it!

 

Lots of great suggestions have already been made. I think the most useful thing for you would be to meet up with other cachers. It might be worthwhile checking the profiles of cachers who cache regularly in your area, some of them might be other teenagers or families with teenagers.

 

Also, how about getting a travelbug of your own and setting it off with a mission? Or maybe the whole family could get one each, and set them off in a race? Following the progress of a travelbug might inspire your parents to get out there and find some caches with other bugs in.

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If all else fails and your parents are just totally not interested you could always geocache using a bicycle or even a city bus. In most areas there should be any number of caches within bicycling distance. I only wish geocaching had been around when my kids were teens (and even younger). It would have been a great activity to do with them.

 

Edit: Just in case you may feel that a bicycle is too "young" or whatever............ I'll be 58 on Wednesday. My new bike is being delivered on Friday. :)

 

I bought it online from bikesdirect.com with free shipping to 49 states and around a 60% discount from local retail.

Edited by Thrak
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Is there a teacher or a counselor at school that would be willing to help start an after school activity like a geocaching club? There are probably other kids in your school who either are or would be interested in exploring this. You could point out that it's a good physical activity that would promote exercise and social interaction, not to mention the CITO and environmental aspects of the sport. Helping to organize a club also shows leadership qualities that I think teachers love to see in their students. Maybe they would be able to help put together some caching expeditions.

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No car? Get a bicycle. This combines geocaching and exercise, and also increases your general mobility. Right now you depend on your parents to take you anywhere past walking distance, which must feel so dadgum restrictive. With a bicycle you can go three-four times as far in the same amount of time as walking, which actually increases your area coverage by a factor of nine to sixteen.

 

I know how your parents feel -- mine hate geocaching too. Not that I need them to like it (I'm an adult and live separately), but it would have been a nice thing to enjoy when we get together. Oh well, the important part is that my boyfriend likes it (or at least tolerates it, especially if I bribe him :-).

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To the OP: it's OK for your family not to like geocaching. Every geocacher has family members and friends who think that geocaching is just nuts. In general, if people don't get into geocaching after going out on 3 or 4 hunts, they aren't going to.

 

Rather than trying to convert them, continue to show them that you get a lot out of it, and maybe make some friends - preferably, at least to some extent, people whom your parents will find non-threatening! - in your local geocaching community. Many geocachers are great role models.

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If all else fails and your parents are just totally not interested you could always geocache using a bicycle or even a city bus. In most areas there should be any number of caches within bicycling distance. I only wish geocaching had been around when my kids were teens (and even younger). It would have been a great activity to do with them.

 

Edit: Just in case you may feel that a bicycle is too "young" or whatever............ I'll be 58 on Wednesday. My new bike is being delivered on Friday. :)

 

I bought it online from bikesdirect.com with free shipping to 49 states and around a 60% discount from local retail.

 

I love riding my bike and I would ride it all over town but my mom doesn't think its safe. Theres this kid on my bus who is about my age and he says his parents let him walk all over town. He says he just likes to walk to parks and fast food places. My parents would never let me do that...sadly.

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Glad you are enjoying geocaching Jacob! And I wish my teenagers shared your enthusiasm for it!

 

Lots of great suggestions have already been made. I think the most useful thing for you would be to meet up with other cachers. It might be worthwhile checking the profiles of cachers who cache regularly in your area, some of them might be other teenagers or families with teenagers.

 

Also, how about getting a travelbug of your own and setting it off with a mission? Or maybe the whole family could get one each, and set them off in a race? Following the progress of a travelbug might inspire your parents to get out there and find some caches with other bugs in.

 

How would I get my parents to let me go with other cachers? And how am I supposed to know if the cachers are teenagers?

 

But yeah...that is a cool idea about the travel bugs!

Edited by jacob501
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Glad you are enjoying geocaching Jacob! And I wish my teenagers shared your enthusiasm for it!

 

Lots of great suggestions have already been made. I think the most useful thing for you would be to meet up with other cachers. It might be worthwhile checking the profiles of cachers who cache regularly in your area, some of them might be other teenagers or families with teenagers.

 

Also, how about getting a travelbug of your own and setting it off with a mission? Or maybe the whole family could get one each, and set them off in a race? Following the progress of a travelbug might inspire your parents to get out there and find some caches with other bugs in.

 

How would I get my parents to let me go with other cachers? And how am I supposed to know if the cachers are teenagers?

 

But yeah...that is a cool idea about the travel bugs!

 

Chances are you won't get your parents to let you go with other cachers if they're strangers to the family. That's just kind of the reality and until you're older I don't blame them because that's what they're supposed to do. You probably won't know who the other younger folks in the community are until you get to know your local community better. I knew who my local community was before meeting any of them just from sharing messages with them.

 

However, I will caution you that you just freely announced your age on this forum here. Not a good, safe choice as you don't know who any of us are. I could be some creepy guy down the street for all you know. So if you're in communication with other people online, even cachers, use your better judgment and don't be advertising how young you are.

 

For the original question. Your parents just might not be into this. My mom is into this but my dad is (granted I'm an adult now). But that's just their personalities. You can incorporate it as best you can into trips and errands and if not excessive your family will probably make some accommodations. I've done it with people not into caching by following along to where they want to go and finding nearby caches. Chances are if the place is really cool that there is some sort of cache near by.

 

At this point you rely on your parents for rides and such but that likely won't be the case for too many more years. You can dip your toe into the water now. Maybe even figure out some caches near you to hide and once you get some more freedom really start to embrace this.

 

I also agree about the travel bug. Launch a couple and let the family watch them.

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Glad you are enjoying geocaching Jacob! And I wish my teenagers shared your enthusiasm for it!

 

Lots of great suggestions have already been made. I think the most useful thing for you would be to meet up with other cachers. It might be worthwhile checking the profiles of cachers who cache regularly in your area, some of them might be other teenagers or families with teenagers.

 

Also, how about getting a travelbug of your own and setting it off with a mission? Or maybe the whole family could get one each, and set them off in a race? Following the progress of a travelbug might inspire your parents to get out there and find some caches with other bugs in.

 

How would I get my parents to let me go with other cachers? And how am I supposed to know if the cachers are teenagers?

 

But yeah...that is a cool idea about the travel bugs!

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You can't really make them like geocaching, but you CAN help them enjoy going along with you if it's in an area they enjoy. Then maybe they will see some of the reasons you like it. I can get my husband to go along if it's in a nice park and we just go for a walk and maybe have lunch somewhere. He has no interest in geocaching, but he does get it that my kids (ages 5 and 8) like it. So he enjoys walking with us if it's in a place we can go without being seen by other people. He would NOT like going to a mall parking lot and looking in the bushes, for example. Go online and find a bike trail with a lot of geocaches, and get the whole family to get on bicycles. We have a bike trail by me with 18 caches on it, and if my 5 year old could ride that far, we would all go together. We have found some great parks while geocaching, that we would've never found otherwise.

 

Look up the geocaching events in your area and do try to get your parents to take you to some. We have met kids of different ages, and gotten to meet some of the local cachers that way. Maybe if your parents don't want to attend the event at a park, they could drop you off while they took a walk or something. Look online for your local geocaching clubs and sign up online, sometimes they have small meet and greets, and possibly online forums where you can meet teen cachers online, with your parents' approval. Later, your parents might want to go with you to meet up with them, and then you will have some friends to go caching with. Or you could meet some teen cachers and go caching with their families.

 

These are all things I personally would do for my kids if they wanted to do more geocaching or go caching with kids. If all else fails, when your parents ask you what you want for your birthday....ask them to take you to an event. :)

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Thanks everybody, but I probably should have never posted this topic because no matter what I do my parents will probably never really like geocaching...which is fine...I can't make them like anything...I just don't want to annoy them by always asking if I can find a geocache. Oh well, who cares. :)

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Thanks everybody, but I probably should have never posted this topic because no matter what I do my parents will probably never really like geocaching...which is fine...I can't make them like anything...I just don't want to annoy them by always asking if I can find a geocache. Oh well, who cares. :)

You're right, they may never like geocaching. The cool thing is, that means that it can be something that is your own activity.

 

Follow some of the ideas above and you'll still be able to do more geocaching than you have been.

 

Best of luck!

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I can totally empathize with your situation. My family tolerates my caching, but they get annoyed easily, especially if we don't find the cache quickly. It's best to choose easy, non-micro caches when we're together.

 

I also do not have much advice for you, because I am in the same boat as you. My family does not seem to like geocaching very much either. I am the mother, my husband can tolerate geocachening, but will not look for micros at all, and my teenage children have recently said that they hate geocaching. I however, am the one doing the driving, and do drag them along with me sometimes, lol. I have a pitiful low find count, because we pick and choose very few to go out for. I will probably soon have to start going by myself as well :(

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