Travel Bug Black Hole...

[+Team BowMint]

So our team loves the idea of Travel Bugs, moving other's along and starting our own. While we are still new and our data is relatively slim, we have already found what seems to be a disturbing trend regarding TBs. We like to seek out caches that have TBs or coins listed in the inventory. 95% of these caches have been devoid of what the inventory states should be there, 95%!!! That sucks. The first TB we found was a red race car in a race; we were super excited. We put the racer in a cache in less than a week of having it and we watched the cache to see who would get it and were it would go next. The next entry on the cache log page said there was no TB in the cache, it WAS there, so they stole it or some muggle stole it in the interim....???

 

so:

 

1. Why does it take so long for folks to clean up these missing bugs? Why can't they just virtually remove them from their cache inventories so teams like us don’t waste time looking for phantom TBs? Can’t there be a TB police force for each region who cleans this up? Some TB’s have been listed in a cache for 8 years and clearly are not there, shouldn’t the CO remove the TB from his inventory???

2. We just spent a lot of time and effort making up cool TB's for a race, we read a thread on how to get them moved a long and how to keep them more unattractive for collectors by drilling holes etc, what do you suppose the chances of these TBs getting moved are? 5%???

3. Does anyone have a more positive outlook on TBs? It’s discouraging for us noobs…

[+BlueDeuce]

Try to mention in your cache log when you did not see a listed bug in a cache.

 

Both the bug owner and cache owner have the ability to Mark a bug as Missing. A lot of people don't know they have this ability so when I verify a bug has been missing for over six month I contact the bug owner and include the instructions. If I don't see a response after three weeks or so I contact the cache owner and provide them instructions. If after another three weeks I'll send the request to the local reviewer or Eartha the TB forum moderator.

[+Team BowMint]

Try to mention in your cache log when you did not see a listed bug in a cache.

 

Both the bug owner and cache owner have the ability to Mark a bug as Missing. A lot of people don't know they have this ability so when I verify a bug has been missing for over six month I contact the bug owner and include the instructions. If I don't see a response after three weeks or so I contact the cache owner and provide them instructions. If after another three weeks I'll send the request to the local reviewer or Eartha the TB forum moderator.

 

Good! Now, where do I get the instructions of which you speak?Nevermind, I found them...

How do I identify my local reviewer and why isn't s/he looking at this issue in the first place?

Edited February 23, 2011 by Team BowMint

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Try to mention in your cache log when you did not see a listed bug in a cache.

 

Both the bug owner and cache owner have the ability to Mark a bug as Missing. A lot of people don't know they have this ability so when I verify a bug has been missing for over six month I contact the bug owner and include the instructions. If I don't see a response after three weeks or so I contact the cache owner and provide them instructions. If after another three weeks I'll send the request to the local reviewer or Eartha the TB forum moderator.

 

Good! Now, where do I get the instructions of which you speak?

How do I identify my local reviewer and why isn't s/he looking at this issue in the first place?

This isn't really a local reviewer's responsibility. Eartha is a forum moderator that deals a lot with travelers and is very helpful with most problems. You can contact Eartha with a PM right here in the forums or an email.

 

Knowledge Books info: here.

 

You aren't the first to bring up this "problem". As it stands, there is no easy resolution.

[+BlueDeuce]

How do I identify my local reviewer and why isn't s/he looking at this issue in the first place?

 

Look at the very first log of a newly published cache. That reviewer log is likely your local.

 

Cachers who visit the cache need to be the ones to verify whether the bug is there or not and then make the report to the owners.

[+Team BowMint]

You aren't the first to bring up this "problem". As it stands, there is no easy resolution.

 

Well, an easy fix, or at least a help, would be if everyone would log that the item is missing. Seems around here, no one is doing it...

 

Seems like good etiquette would reason: If you find a cache that is missing the item listed in the inventory, log it as such so the person behind you will know not to come lookin if a TB is their goal that day...

Edited February 24, 2011 by Team BowMint

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

 

Well, and easy fix, or at least a help, would be if everyone would log that the item is missing. Seems around here, no one is doing it...

 

Seems like good etiquette would reason: If you find a cache that is missing the item listed in the inventory, log it as such so the person behind you will know not to come lookin if a TB is their goal that day...

Agreed. Many do mention in their logs, not as many add the same note to the TB/geocoin page (they should, but probably do not realize that they should -- believing that the log notation will suffice).

 

You see, it is at this point that the next (broken) link in the chain rears its' ugly head -- A LOT of cache owners do not know that THEY can move the trackable to missing, or they do not feel that it is their responsibility, and therefore pass on the maneuver.

This then, leaves it squarely on the shoulders of the owner of the traveler. There are HUGE numbers of TB/GC owners that (again) are not aware that they can/should move it to "missing". What they heck, how many have truly read all that they can read about geocaching -- primarily the Knowledge Books that were previously revealed to you?

 

There's a lot to learn about geocaching, but few take advantage of it. If they all did take such advantage of it, then certainly your posting may not have even been necessary. Sad, but true. Each cacher has their own "game" to play. That's the way it is and it probably ain't gonna change.

 

I too, stumbled and bumbled my way through -- am still learning and finding new do's and don'ts on a continual basis.

 

Simply do what you feel is right and correct, hopefully you will learn to (more or less) ignore those that don't bother.

 

Now, sit back, relax, have fun and enjoy.

 

EDIT: Typo

Edited February 23, 2011 by Gitchee-Gummee

[HormanClan]

A few thoughts from a complete noob:

 

Thought #1:

Add a very simple input option for the trackable on the portable software, where a person with a portable device can "quick spot" a bug. They enter the code, and the bug gets the current coordinates and the username into the log.

- If those coordinates are within, say, 300 feet of a cache that already has it in inventory, it stays in that inventory.

- If those coordinates are NOT within, say, 300 feet of a cache where it is inventoried, it is removed from that cache.

- If the coordinates are within 300 feet of a NEW cache where it isn't logged, it shows in that cache as tentative, or "spotted nearby"

 

In every case, the trackable log shows that username and coordinates.

 

The idea here is that something is better than nothing, and not everyone logs stuff from home. Yes, I know the software (at least the iPhone version) has the ability to log the trackable - but that's a whole separate process and people may simply not want to do it.

 

Which leads to thought #2:

Include a question, both from home and on the portables, that asks each cache logger if they saw/took/left any trackables.

 

So it might be a message like "Congrats on your find and thanks for logging this cache. We show that the 'Bug of Bugs' trackable was in the cache...did you

a ) see it and leave it

b ) see it and take it

c ) didn't see it at all"

 

If they choose b, then give them a note saying to move it along, etc. otherwise a simple thank you to the logger and then a status update to the trackable.

 

Likewise, it might proactively ask if they left a trackable and lead them into the logging part.

 

Which leads to Thought #3:

Instead of "grab" and "retrieve" how about "de-cache", "re-cache" and "hand-off" for giving it to someone else.

 

Full disclosure: I have yet to find or place a trackable. I understand there may be excellent reasons why these won't work. So please don't flame me, I'm trying to offer a perspective of one who has read up on this but has not gotten used to how things are.

 

edit: formatting

Edited February 23, 2011 by HormanClan

[+Walts Hunting]

The above suggestion IMHO would lead to an extreme slowdown of travel bug travel. No one is going to go to all that trouble to log a traveler. Given the amount of TB;s that go through my Stargate if I had to do all that to log them through I would close it.

 

The whole missing bug thing is something that has to be gotten used to.

 

Also your suggestion about hand-off when you give it to someone else won't be received well since that is generally discouraged.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Walts Hunting

[+ncfinn]

When you pick up a TB, mention it in both your log in the cache and online. That way it is easier to try to figure out where/when the bug disappeared.

[HormanClan]

The above suggestion IMHO would lead to an extreme slowdown of travel bug travel. No one is going to go to all that trouble to log a traveler. Given the amount of TB;s that go through my Stargate if I had to do all that to log them through I would close it.

 

The whole missing bug thing is something that has to be gotten used to.

 

Why would it slow things down?

 

I'm suggesting:

 

Thought #1 is that there be a FAST way to log a found bug via your mobile unit app. A simple entry of nothing more than the bug number. As I understand it, right now, to log a bug you must go through the same process as logging a cache, but for the bug. I' believe that some people get into this and know caches, but don't know bugs. And don't know there's a whole 'cache-like' logging system to it. So they don't post at all. This option (and it would be an option) wouldn't be in place of the current system, rather an addition to it. And it wouldn't be for cache owners at all, rather for finders of bugs, especially ones who might not know what bugs are.

 

Thought #2 is that there be an optional way for the website to request bug information at the tail end of a cache logging effort. At least one of my whopping 4 cache finds said it had a TB online and didn't have one in real life. At the time I logged the cache, I didn't know about bugs - had I simply been asked, I would have indicated "nope, didn't see a bug" and that might have helped both the cache and the TB owner. Instead, the cache still shows a bug - I won't change it now, as for all I know the bug showed back up.

 

Also your suggestion about hand-off when you give it to someone else won't be received well since that is generally discouraged.

 

I was told on this board that I if I had some TBs and take them with me on a trip, and I couldn't get to a cache, that I could hand it off to a local cacher. That's not kosher? I don't really care what the norm or rule is, I'm pointing out that the current bug terms aren't intuitive, especially between grab and retrieve. Personally, if I find a bug in a cache and take it, I'm not thinking of the word "retrieve" as I never had the bug before. Same with someone handing it to me.

 

All of these small hurdles increase the likelihood of missing bugs. I suppose there's no need to fix that, or maybe my thoughts aren't good ones. And of course bugs will never be perfect and will always eventually go missing. But in the little I've seen around here, it seems very much a community of people looking to improve and advance, not settling for 'just get used to it' approaches to noted downsides or deficiencies.

Edited February 24, 2011 by HormanClan

[HormanClan]

I should also note that the root issue isn't as much that TBs go missing - that will happen. Rather, that part of it going missing is that it seems to leave a trail of bad information - and the technology exists to fix that.

 

My thoughts above, combined with some kind of "tentative" location status (that doesn't require the TB owner or cache owner to create) might help out overall. A TB that is listed in a cache would go 'tentative' with the first person to mention it missing when logging the cache, while likewise a person finding a bug in a previously unlogged place would get a 'tentative' placement if the finder simply logged the TB coordinates but did nothing more.

 

It doesn't keep bugs from going missing, but would improve the accuracy of the information once it does.

[+Team BowMint]

A few thoughts from a complete noob:

 

Thought #1:

Add a very simple input option for the trackable on the portable software, where a person with a portable device can "quick spot" a bug. They enter the code, and the bug gets the current coordinates and the username into the log.

- If those coordinates are within, say, 300 feet of a cache that already has it in inventory, it stays in that inventory.

- If those coordinates are NOT within, say, 300 feet of a cache where it is inventoried, it is removed from that cache.

- If the coordinates are within 300 feet of a NEW cache where it isn't logged, it shows in that cache as tentative, or "spotted nearby"

 

In every case, the trackable log shows that username and coordinates.

 

The idea here is that something is better than nothing, and not everyone logs stuff from home. Yes, I know the software (at least the iPhone version) has the ability to log the trackable - but that's a whole separate process and people may simply not want to do it.

 

Which leads to thought #2:

Include a question, both from home and on the portables, that asks each cache logger if they saw/took/left any trackables.

 

So it might be a message like "Congrats on your find and thanks for logging this cache. We show that the 'Bug of Bugs' trackable was in the cache...did you

a ) see it and leave it

b ) see it and take it

c ) didn't see it at all"

 

If they choose b, then give them a note saying to move it along, etc. otherwise a simple thank you to the logger and then a status update to the trackable.

 

Likewise, it might proactively ask if they left a trackable and lead them into the logging part.

 

Which leads to Thought #3:

Instead of "grab" and "retrieve" how about "de-cache", "re-cache" and "hand-off" for giving it to someone else.

 

Full disclosure: I have yet to find or place a trackable. I understand there may be excellent reasons why these won't work. So please don't flame me, I'm trying to offer a perspective of one who has read up on this but has not gotten used to how things are.

 

edit: formatting

All great ideas IMHO.. I use the Driod software and don't have an option, (that I've found) to log a TB in a cache wev'e found. I have to sign on at home or use the Droid's browser and do it that way on the tiny screen and we know that's a hassle. Allow folks in the field to immediately log if a TB in the inventory is missing!

[+Team BowMint]

The whole missing bug thing is something that has to be gotten used to.

No disrespect and please understand I am a complete neophite to this hobby still; but this, to me, is the wrong answer. There has to be a better way...

[+Team BowMint]

I should also note that the root issue isn't as much that TBs go missing - that will happen. Rather, that part of it going missing is that it seems to leave a trail of bad information - and the technology exists to fix that.

 

It doesn't keep bugs from going missing, but would improve the accuracy of the information once it does.

 

Exactly what I'm hoping for, a solution not to fix the issue of bugs being stolen or "misplaced" but a way to fix the misinformation. If lazy CO's or bug owners wont do it, allow those of us that want to help do it!

[+DocWahala]

Try to mention in your cache log when you did not see a listed bug in a cache.

 

Both the bug owner and cache owner have the ability to Mark a bug as Missing. A lot of people don't know they have this ability so when I verify a bug has been missing for over six month I contact the bug owner and include the instructions. If I don't see a response after three weeks or so I contact the cache owner and provide them instructions. If after another three weeks I'll send the request to the local reviewer or Eartha the TB forum moderator.

 

This is great advice!

 

See, I work with offshore drilling in West Africa, so I have 5 weeks at home, and try to stay geo-busy when I am at home. But when I am in Africa, I also like to stay in tune with what is happening in my local area. Since I've covered about 80% of everything within 20 miles, I have a few different watch lists (with 15 miles, within 25 miles, new sites).

 

And geting to read the emails sent is great. Sometimes what a person writes in a log motivates me to want to make sure I put that one on my To-Do list. Some logs tell me what problems others are having. I even like seeing others have made finds on the ones I couldnt find. The more who do that, the more I want to get back there and change my DNF to a smiley.

 

So Blue Duece is right, if more people would write something about the cache, the better it would be for those who follow. Thanks to Blue, I will be doing the same - I like his systematic approach, passing on instruction to the Bug owner, then the CO, then the reviewer.

[+DocWahala]

Well, an easy fix, or at least a help, would be if everyone would log that the item is missing. Seems around here, no one is doing it...

 

 

Like I said before, I have a watchlist for caches in my area that are still on my hunt list. Based on what I've seen logged on those, and the 9 caches I own, I would say "log ettiquete" has gone the way of the macro-log. Better than 2/3 now just hit one key on their paperless cache and leave "TFTC". Wow.. that says soooooo much.....

[+DocWahala]

Agreed. Many do mention in their logs, not as many add the same note to the TB/geocoin page (they should, but probably do not realize that they should -- believing that the log notation will suffice).

 

You see, it is at this point that the next (broken) link in the chain rears its' ugly head -- A LOT of cache owners do not know that THEY can move the trackable to missing, or they do not feel that it is their responsibility, and therefore pass on the maneuver.

 

The point about leaving a note in both the log and the TB is a good one. Have to be honest, I've missed on that step. But I wont anymore.

 

As for CO passing on their resposibility... I agree. But there is a simple fix on that one...as a cacher I can leave a NM flag, or even a NA if necessary. What if there was a TB-Missing flag? As a cacher, if the log is trashed, I owe it to the CO to let him know. As a CO, I dont want a NM flag hanging on my cache page.

 

Seems the flag has a way of "motivating" both the seeker and the CO to do something about that TB icon that has sat on the page for better part of a year.

 

Personally, I think TBTB should remove the TB flag from the cache list. With it, some folks focus on only visiting the cache to GET something from the inside, never mind going there for the journey, the thrill of the hunt, the scenery, etc etc and the many reasons CO put up cache. And what happens when they get there and find no TB - disappointment. Again, the thrill of the hunt has been negated, the scenery around means nothing.... just "I wasted my time!"

 

And if those icons were removed, then maybe we could give Geocoins a halfway decent chance of surviving out in the wild.

[+DocWahala]

A few thoughts from a complete noob:

 

Which leads to thought #2:

Include a question, both from home and on the portables, that asks each cache logger if they saw/took/left any trackables.

 

So it might be a message like "Congrats on your find and thanks for logging this cache. We show that the 'Bug of Bugs' trackable was in the cache...did you

a ) see it and leave it

b ) see it and take it

c ) didn't see it at all"

 

If they choose b, then give them a note saying to move it along, etc. otherwise a simple thank you to the logger and then a status update to the trackable.

 

Likewise, it might proactively ask if they left a trackable and lead them into the logging part.

 

 

Now that's a good suggestion. Maybe with a little prayer, someone from the TPTB might see this and will see what a positive change that would bring.

 

In the meantime, until TPTB add one step to the logging process, it will be up to the cachers to let others know the TB is no longer there. So....let's keep capturing it in the logs we write.

[+DocWahala]

The above suggestion IMHO would lead to an extreme slowdown of travel bug travel. No one is going to go to all that trouble to log a traveler. Given the amount of TB;s that go through my Stargate if I had to do all that to log them through I would close it.

 

And why would it slow anything down? We already have a drop down for "Found/DNF/Log", there is a field for writing logs (which most just type "TFTC". How many more milliseconds would it take to click another button as part of a 3 question survey?

 

Also curious...why would the CO be writing the logs? Ok..granted, Stargate might be different, but of the 1.25 million caches, how many fit the Stargate model?

 

The whole missing bug thing is something that has to be gotten used to.

 

No we don't. It's a part of the game which is a negative. If "get used to it" was the only response, there would be no point in having Forums, or ever looking to make improvements. Name one sport doesn't change how it is conducted? (ok...chess is not a sport...but I will keep petioning TPTB to let me have more knights)

 

Also your suggestion about hand-off when you give it to someone else won't be received well since that is generally discouraged.

Generally discouraged, but then again, there is the "discover" for Geocoins. Why go hunt caches for coin icons, when I can go to a coin event and "discover" another 100 coins in one day.

[+DocWahala]

I should also note that the root issue isn't as much that TBs go missing - that will happen. Rather, that part of it going missing is that it seems to leave a trail of bad information - and the technology exists to fix that.

 

It doesn't keep bugs from going missing, but would improve the accuracy of the information once it does.

 

Exactly what I'm hoping for, a solution not to fix the issue of bugs being stolen or "misplaced" but a way to fix the misinformation. If lazy CO's or bug owners wont do it, allow those of us that want to help do it!

 

The both of you are correct... since this is nothing more than a large database, the coders should be able to develop the logic-strings to do this. And I do know a bit about managing large information systems. When you have 600 people spread out from Ivory Coast to South Africa, operating in 6 different drilling units, my management systems have to be both effective and efficient.

[+The Blorenges]

 

Also your suggestion about hand-off when you give it to someone else won't be received well since that is generally discouraged.

 

I'm not sure what Walts Hunting is getting at here - I don't think there's anything wrong with passing a trackable 'by hand' to another geocacher. Just make sure you know who they are i.e. their geocaching name!

 

There's a whole topic about possible Strategies/Suggestions for dealing with trackables missing from caches over on the Feedback forum. You may like to go and read the comments there:

 

Feedback Forum - "Trackables no longer in caches"

 

MrsB

[HormanClan]

There's a whole topic about possible Strategies/Suggestions for dealing with trackables missing from caches over on the Feedback forum. You may like to go and read the comments there:

 

Feedback Forum - "Trackables no longer in caches"

 

Thanks for this - I read the comments back thru 30 days worth. I believe my 3 suggestions above help with both the disease (TBs going missing) and the symptom (bad data). I also believe my suggestions are pretty well in line with some of the other such suggestions noted in the thread.

 

FWIW,

I don't believe a reliance on the Cache Owner or TB owner to log such things is working, simply because THEY AREN'T THERE and the whole premise of geocaching is to seek and find, in person. To require an owner to change a status is to ask them to log information about something in the real world, when they haven't actually seen/experienced that action. As a cache or TB owner, I wouldn't go in and make those changes - because I didn't see it with my own eyes.

 

Imagine if geocaching was set up like this: You find a cache, then email the cache owner and ask them to log that you found it. The whole game would never have gotten off the ground.

 

My suggestions put more TB tracking power back into the hands of the seekers, the ones who are physically present and who are actively logging. I've offered a VERY simple logger (where only the TB # is given), a cache confirmation (where the cache logger is asked if they saw the TB) and some suggestions on simplifying/clarifying the language used when referring to TB movement.

 

The good news - the process is really close now and the system works pretty well. I don't want to sound negative here, rather just offering some tweaks to get it from 99% effective to 100%.

[+The Blorenges]

 

FWIW,

I don't believe a reliance on the Cache Owner or TB owner to log such things is working, simply because THEY AREN'T THERE and the whole premise of geocaching is to seek and find, in person. To require an owner to change a status is to ask them to log information about something in the real world, when they haven't actually seen/experienced that action. As a cache or TB owner, I wouldn't go in and make those changes - because I didn't see it with my own eyes.

 

 

It would be a start if cache owners would bring their caches' trackable inventories up to date when they visit their caches to do maintenance, but many COs don't feel that it's part of a CO's "job" to do such checking.

 

Incidentally, if a trackable is definitely missing from a cache (but still showing in the inventory) and the CO and the trackable owner have both been notified and neither has taken any action to mark it missing then you can try asking your local reviewer to remove it (some will do this for you). Failing that, the moderator of this forum, Eartha, will try to assist you.

 

MrsB

[+DocWahala]

 

It would be a start if cache owners would bring their caches' trackable inventories up to date when they visit their caches to do maintenance, but many COs don't feel that it's part of a CO's "job" to do such checking.

 

 

Mrs B you are right, it would be a good start. But it realies on "if". IF..COs would do maintenance. In my local area, for those who have placed 5+ cache, I know which COs not only take the time to do maintenance runs, they also post a log. I also know which ones appear to have decided all of 2010 just was not their year to do anything with cachingand haven't logged on.

 

the HormanClan is dead on - the most up to date info would come from the seekers. And how hard would it be to click a button when we are filling out the survey?

 

And why not just come up with another icon for seekers to use? Maybe a TB with a Question mark on it. TPTB made one for Need Maintenance, Needs Archive, and Coordinates update - perhaps make one for TB updates.

 

He's also right about the game being 99% good.... it is that 1% difference... which is often the difference between "good" and "excellent".

[+Louis Lovers]

Hi all. I'm fairly new to this so apologies in advance for everyone I think I'm likely to offend. The missing trackables thing irritates me also, hence I looked up this thread, and I think there's another point that's being missed, namely the access to information on this site! I know I'm likely to get lynched here but I'm going to carry on regardless...

 

I've not joined in on many discussions here as I don't feel my input is particularly valid, being so new to the activity. However in this instance I think my lack of experience is precisely what gives me some credibility. Please believe me, all you who've been doing this for years, this site is a nightmare to navigate! There is nothing intuitive or helpful about it whatsoever. As regards this particular discussion - there's already mention of links to knowledgebooks, there's forums relating to both TBs and GCs (both of which contain more information than the equivalent knowledge page on the site itself), information regarding trackables is deposited a bit here and a bit there. It's crazy! I suspect that what was originally a simple concept has grown over the years resulting in new ideas and practices being bolted on to the original site. All well and good but ten years on you have a sprawling monster of a website that is a headache and a half. After four months I've gotten my head round the core essentials but find, frankly, I can't be bothered to work out the finer points; life is too short. As regards trackables (being the pertinent example here) why isn't all the information available on one page? Any appropriate links on that same page? You can't complain that many people don't know they can do such and such, or that Cache Owners don't realise they could do something else, when the information is sooooo spread out and diluted.

 

Sorry to rant, I suspect I've not been particularly clear. Bottom line is people would be far more likely to interact as you would like if they knew what was expected of them. And in this instance, as with a great many other facets of this site, it is very, very far from clear.

 

Again, I'm really, really, really sorry if I'm offending anyone. It is not intentional, and I should like to add that I'm chuffed to bits to have discovered geocaching! Thankyou everyone who makes it possible! That aside, this site needs a major overhaul and, I have to be honest, I wouldn't even know where to start. Thank God I'm only a Crime Scene Examiner - this stuff is way to tricky.

[HormanClan]

Sorry to rant, I suspect I've not been particularly clear. Bottom line is people would be far more likely to interact as you would like if they knew what was expected of them. And in this instance, as with a great many other facets of this site, it is very, very far from clear.

 

Hi there, I'm new too and while I don't agree with your global assessments about the site, I do think you may have touched on the cause of confusion/consternation for TBs (to include coins).

 

I *suspect* TBs grew up after geocaches, may have had their own history of sorts, and for whatever reason have been kept somewhat separate from caches. On the one hand, this is probably a good thing; where new folks get the bare minimum and can "peel back the onion" so to speak over time, uncovering new features and elements like TBs along the way. On the other hand, it can make things confusing it you're hit with a travel bug right off the bat and have to go searching for info.

 

Personally, I think the solution lies simply with a bit better integration of bugs into the mix of cache seeking and finding; kind of 'weaving' them in. But not too much - if it seems to the newcomer like there's 1000 rules and nuances, they may shy away. Of course everyone is different and you certainly have an appetite for more (as do I) and for it to be better integrated. Not everyone will be like that. For instance, there's no mention of TBs in the intro video...

 

Anyway, I do think that newcomer's voices are heard, and that the site, people and entire sport are quite welcoming. At least, that's been my experience, and I'd hope you'd continue to enjoy and seek improvements.

[Troutonthebrain]

One problem with cache owners marking all the missing trackables in their caches as missing comes when a cache owner has 50+ caches. After this many have been hidden, going back to each page often becomes a drag and if someone doesn't mention it in a log, the cache owner may not realize that the trackable is missing for a long time. A dilemma I reached was when I realized a trackable had been missing from one of my caches for more than a year. When it reached that point I decided it was almost best to not rub salt in the trackable owner's wound (besides, the cache had been archived for about a month anyway).

 

A funny story to go with this topic happened when we went on a road trip. We stopped in a small town on the way up to do some geocaching. Now this was about a year and a half ago when we were really new to caching and were trying to find caches with trackables. We stopped in that town because there were supposed to be thirteen trackables in 3 caches which were all within half a mile of each other. After finding all three we didn't see a single trackable and have decided best if we don't cache in that little town again (or at least not leave and trackables there)!