Geocaching and the Bomb Squad

[tommytrojan360]

Doesn't this all seem like another reason to be concerned about Garmin's new caching site? As I understand it, there's no review process at all on that site, meaning that anyone can stick a cache anywhere and list it. And that sort of thing can only lead to more incidents like this one. If there's a similar incident with one of their listed caches and it's reported that the item was a "Geocache," it's going to hurt this site more than Garmin's, even if it wasn't listed here.

 

I have had the Disney 50 States cache on my watch list for a long time (I'm only missing Oregon and Nebraska), and I've always been surprised that their local reviewer allowed it to be placed anywhere near a Disney property. Part of the blame has to fall on the shoulders of the person who reviewed that placement in the first place. I would be very surprised if our local reviewer would have permitted it, unless the owner had provided explicit proof that he had obtained permission.

 

I have talked to the cache owner Team Geo-Rangers and I know people who have talked to the reviewer Marko Ramius, Marko did not know at the time that the final cache location was in Downtown Disney. Unfortunately he does now and he has gotten a lot of heat for it. I don't know if you can blame Marko for it. Although he should have been a little hesitant, the cache owner was a well-respected cacher who has been here for eight years and, combined, has found and placed over 19,500 caches! I think the reviewer trusted that this wasn't on actualy Disney property. Like a previous cacher said, it's been there for six years and hasn't had a problem, but that doesn't mean it was ok. We should make a bad situation better and accept responsibility for it, ask for forgiveness, learn a lesson from it, and move on to place bigger and better caches! Although this is bad publicity, this isn't the first time it as happened on Disney property. We were hoping we learned our lesson from it, and we were doin' good! Now this has come up, but we will pass through it and hopefully continue to have good experiences geocaching.

 

Just my two cents....

[+geodarts]

Marko did not know at the time that the final cache location was in Downtown Disney. Unfortunately he does now and he has gotten a lot of heat for it. I don't know if you can blame Marko for it. Although he should have been a little hesitant, the cache owner was a well-respected cacher who has been here for eight years and, combined, has found and placed over 19,500 caches!

 

I would not blame the reviewer. Except for earthcaches, the system defaults towards the assumption that the cache is placed with "adequate permission." As long as cachers believe that the ability to walk across private property constitutes adequate permission to leave a container - and that is good enough for Groundspeak - then caches will be placed in areas where they are not appropriate. If not on Disney property any longer then certainly in malls like that described above, where they are removed when they are found.

Edited February 24, 2011 by mulvaney

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I would not blame the reviewer. Except for earthcaches, the system defaults towards the assumption that the cache is placed with "adequate permission." As long as cachers believe that the ability to walk across private property constitutes adequate permission to leave a container - and that is good enough for Groundspeak - then caches will be placed in areas where they are not appropriate. If not on Disney property any longer then certainly in malls like that described above, where they are removed when they are found.

 

Maybe GS needs to get more "aggressive" with getting written permission from owners/managers for properties like malls, shopping plazas, etc. we all know they are private property...time to make sure hiders have permission. The "Adequate Permission" just isn't cutting it.

[Keystone]

I have had the Disney 50 States cache on my watch list for a long time (I'm only missing Oregon and Nebraska), and I've always been surprised that their local reviewer allowed it to be placed anywhere near a Disney property. Part of the blame has to fall on the shoulders of the person who reviewed that placement in the first place. I would be very surprised if our local reviewer would have permitted it, unless the owner had provided explicit proof that he had obtained permission.

 

Yeah, it probably slipped through the cracks. I was around in 2005, and they certainly didn't have the hidden waypoints feature for the final coordinates to a challenge/puzzle/mystery/multi cache.

Your posts assume that the reviewer did not question the cache owner very carefully about the Disney location prior to publication. That's understandable, since you cannot see hidden waypoints and archived prepublication reviewer notes. But, the assumption is also not warranted in this instance. The reviewer did his job.

[+Don_J]

This went down today http://laist.com/201...wn_geocache.php and a quick search of Geocaching and Bomb Squad brings up a TON of other similar stories.

 

One major concern in communities is the cost of resources it takes to deal with the situation.

 

Is anything being done on behalf of the Geocaching community to alert local agencies of our activities?

 

Maybe we could have an "Alert the police about Geocaching" day? Or orginize some sort of "reach out" program

If all it takes is a quick check to the website to maybe verify a geocache may be in the area. Or leave means for law enforcement to communicate with the hidder, Geocaching could avoid a lot of bad press.

 

Ideas?

If the local law enforcement folks do not know anything about geocaching after it has been active in the USA for more than ten years I would suggest we need to be a little bit concerned.

 

Well, it is the LAPD. A nudge in the right direction might not hurt!

 

Actually, this was Anaheim PD. LAPD has been pretty good at not blowing things up. Last week they found a foot tall artillery shell on the side of a busy street, about three miles south of me. They sent in their robot and determined that it was it safe. Turned out to be a old movie prop.

 

On the other hand, Kern County, CA, bomb squad water cannoned, and destroyed this ammo can, way up in the mountains, despite the fact that a road worker told them what it was, that he was a geocacher and had known about the cache for years.

 

[+Don_J]

Does anyone know what cache it was or where it was listed?

 

See this post you must have missed it.

 

Well, this was Florida, and I don't have the link for the cache that caused the bomb scare because I haven't found it, and can't find the archived listing, but it happened Feb. 2005, and the reviewer receieved the "no more physical caches" order in late March, 2005 I assume this applied to Disneyland too. This cache was placed November, 2005.

 

Cripes, find all 50 States to find a match holder? I hope at least it wasn't an LPC.

 

I think that was a file photo. Look closely. The log book would never fit inside.

In fact, an owner note describes it as a nano. Does seem kind of silly, both the cache and the response to it.

[Keystone]

I have talked to the cache owner Team Geo-Rangers and I know people who have talked to the reviewer Marko Ramius, Marko did not know at the time that the final cache location was in Downtown Disney. Unfortunately he does now and he has gotten a lot of heat for it. I don't know if you can blame Marko for it. Although he should have been a little hesitant, the cache owner was a well-respected cacher who has been here for eight years and, combined, has found and placed over 19,500 caches! I think the reviewer trusted that this wasn't on actualy Disney property. Like a previous cacher said, it's been there for six years and hasn't had a problem, but that doesn't mean it was ok. We should make a bad situation better and accept responsibility for it, ask for forgiveness, learn a lesson from it, and move on to place bigger and better caches! Although this is bad publicity, this isn't the first time it as happened on Disney property. We were hoping we learned our lesson from it, and we were doin' good! Now this has come up, but we will pass through it and hopefully continue to have good experiences geocaching.

 

Just my two cents....

Your post assumes that Marko Ramius published the cache. Scroll down to the bottom of the cache page and you will see that, in truth, Marko Ramius did not publish the cache. Thus, I found much of your post to be rather puzzling. Also, see my post above regarding the actual work done by the actual reviewer.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Keystone

[Mr.Yuck]

I have had the Disney 50 States cache on my watch list for a long time (I'm only missing Oregon and Nebraska), and I've always been surprised that their local reviewer allowed it to be placed anywhere near a Disney property. Part of the blame has to fall on the shoulders of the person who reviewed that placement in the first place. I would be very surprised if our local reviewer would have permitted it, unless the owner had provided explicit proof that he had obtained permission.

 

Yeah, it probably slipped through the cracks. I was around in 2005, and they certainly didn't have the hidden waypoints feature for the final coordinates to a challenge/puzzle/mystery/multi cache.

Your posts assume that the reviewer did not question the cache owner very carefully about the Disney location prior to publication. That's understandable, since you cannot see hidden waypoints and archived prepublication reviewer notes. But, the assumption is also not warranted in this instance. The reviewer did his job.

 

Oh, I wouldn't say my posts assume the reviewer did not question the CO very carefully about the Disney location. I do know from personal experience the review process wasn't as tight in 2005, there was no requirement to to have all locations for a multi or mystery stored as hidden waypoints (a feature that did not exist back then), and I've seen many instances where it's obvious there is no permanent record on the reviewer side of the locations of legs of multi's or final location of mysteries/puzzles pre-hidden waypoint era. I have no doubt the reviewer did their job.

 

FireRef: basically off topic (although I was responding to a question raised in this thread), I was just clowining around about SwineFlew blocking all caches from being published at Garmincaching. But with the "peer review" process over there, he had a very high incidence of using the maximum number of negative peer review votes, essentially blocking dozens of caches from being published over there. Then again, not totally off topic I suppose, as a website with a peer review process would be very likely to have a physical cache on Disney property approved, when it's well known around these parts they haven't been allowed since 2005.

[+Don_J]

In a world where even a kid's stuffed pony can be blown up by the bomb squad, I don't think there is anything geocachers can do to prevent an occasional ka-boom.

 

http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/stuffed-animal-blown-up-by-bomb-squad/

 

Unbelievable. This is worse than when they stopped all commuter trains on a busy Southern California corridor for three hours, so they could blow up a small bag of rotten meat.

 

[edit]location.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Don_J

[Mr.Yuck]

Does anyone know what cache it was or where it was listed?

 

See this post you must have missed it.

 

Well, this was Florida, and I don't have the link for the cache that caused the bomb scare because I haven't found it, and can't find the archived listing, but it happened Feb. 2005, and the reviewer receieved the "no more physical caches" order in late March, 2005 I assume this applied to Disneyland too. This cache was placed November, 2005.

 

Cripes, find all 50 States to find a match holder? I hope at least it wasn't an LPC.

 

I think that was a file photo. Look closely. The log book would never fit inside.

In fact, an owner note describes it as a nano. Does seem kind of silly, both the cache and the response to it.

 

There's a lot of posts to wade through here, but it came out earlier that the newspaper just grabbed a picture of a cache of the internet, and that one actually came from a Canadian cachers Flikr page.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I figured Downtown Disney in California would be banned caching grounds because Downtown Disney in Florida is. Hence the clever use of Wherigo for this cache - http://coord.info/GC1Y3HH - which has the physical container not on Disney property.

[Keystone]

Oh, I wouldn't say my posts assume the reviewer did not question the CO very carefully about the Disney location. I do know from personal experience the review process wasn't as tight in 2005, there was no requirement to to have all locations for a multi or mystery stored as hidden waypoints (a feature that did not exist back then), and I've seen many instances where it's obvious there is no permanent record on the reviewer side of the locations of legs of multi's or final location of mysteries/puzzles pre-hidden waypoint era. I have no doubt the reviewer did their job.

I was asking for specifics about final locations well prior to 2005, as were many other reviewers. That is one of the reasons which led the reviewer group to petition loudly for the additional waypoint feature and some automated tools that came along with it.

 

The publisher of this cache also asked -- multiple times -- about the precise coordinates and the location of the cache relative to Disney property because this placement postdated the cellphone cache incident.

[+Don_J]

Doesn't this all seem like another reason to be concerned about Garmin's new caching site? As I understand it, there's no review process at all on that site, meaning that anyone can stick a cache anywhere and list it. And that sort of thing can only lead to more incidents like this one. If there's a similar incident with one of their listed caches and it's reported that the item was a "Geocache," it's going to hurt this site more than Garmin's, even if it wasn't listed here.

 

I have had the Disney 50 States cache on my watch list for a long time (I'm only missing Oregon and Nebraska), and I've always been surprised that their local reviewer allowed it to be placed anywhere near a Disney property. Part of the blame has to fall on the shoulders of the person who reviewed that placement in the first place. I would be very surprised if our local reviewer would have permitted it, unless the owner had provided explicit proof that he had obtained permission.

 

I have talked to the cache owner Team Geo-Rangers and I know people who have talked to the reviewer Marko Ramius, Marko did not know at the time that the final cache location was in Downtown Disney. Unfortunately he does now and he has gotten a lot of heat for it. I don't know if you can blame Marko for it. Although he should have been a little hesitant, the cache owner was a well-respected cacher who has been here for eight years and, combined, has found and placed over 19,500 caches! I think the reviewer trusted that this wasn't on actualy Disney property. Like a previous cacher said, it's been there for six years and hasn't had a problem, but that doesn't mean it was ok. We should make a bad situation better and accept responsibility for it, ask for forgiveness, learn a lesson from it, and move on to place bigger and better caches! Although this is bad publicity, this isn't the first time it as happened on Disney property. We were hoping we learned our lesson from it, and we were doin' good! Now this has come up, but we will pass through it and hopefully continue to have good experiences geocaching.

 

Just my two cents....

 

Why should Marko take any heat for this? He didn't publish it. It was published before he was a reviewer. It was never reported to him. Certainly we don't expect reviewers to re-review all of the caches that were published prior to them taking on the responsibility of being a reviewer. As soon as he caught wind of what was going on, he archived the cache.

[+geodarts]

The publisher of this cache also asked -- multiple times -- about the precise coordinates and the location of the cache relative to Disney property because this placement postdated the cellphone cache incident.

 

And after doing that, everyone involved apparently determined that the cache had "adequate permission "to be on Disney property (albeit outside of the park itself).

 

I think this particular incident interests me because I had experience with Disney security on property outside the park before anyone ever thought about geocaching, and I learned that Disney takes all their property very seriously. And all we were doing was sitting down in a vacant lot after walking there from Santa Ana.

[tommytrojan360]

I have talked to the cache owner Team Geo-Rangers and I know people who have talked to the reviewer Marko Ramius, Marko did not know at the time that the final cache location was in Downtown Disney. Unfortunately he does now and he has gotten a lot of heat for it. I don't know if you can blame Marko for it. Although he should have been a little hesitant, the cache owner was a well-respected cacher who has been here for eight years and, combined, has found and placed over 19,500 caches! I think the reviewer trusted that this wasn't on actualy Disney property. Like a previous cacher said, it's been there for six years and hasn't had a problem, but that doesn't mean it was ok. We should make a bad situation better and accept responsibility for it, ask for forgiveness, learn a lesson from it, and move on to place bigger and better caches! Although this is bad publicity, this isn't the first time it as happened on Disney property. We were hoping we learned our lesson from it, and we were doin' good! Now this has come up, but we will pass through it and hopefully continue to have good experiences geocaching.

 

Just my two cents....

Your post assumes that Marko Ramius published the cache. Scroll down to the bottom of the cache page and you will see that, in truth, Marko Ramius did not publish the cache. Thus, I found much of your post to be rather puzzling. Also, see my post above regarding the actual work done by the actual reviewer.

 

Your right, my bad. I thought that he published this cache, didn't look into it enough. Still my point stays the same, you can't blame the reviewer. And please would you care to explain what's so puzzling? I'm just trying to be encouraging

Edited February 24, 2011 by tommytrojan360

[Mr.Yuck]

Oh, I wouldn't say my posts assume the reviewer did not question the CO very carefully about the Disney location. I do know from personal experience the review process wasn't as tight in 2005, there was no requirement to to have all locations for a multi or mystery stored as hidden waypoints (a feature that did not exist back then), and I've seen many instances where it's obvious there is no permanent record on the reviewer side of the locations of legs of multi's or final location of mysteries/puzzles pre-hidden waypoint era. I have no doubt the reviewer did their job.

I was asking for specifics about final locations well prior to 2005, as were many other reviewers. That is one of the reasons which led the reviewer group to petition loudly for the additional waypoint feature and some automated tools that came along with it.

 

The publisher of this cache also asked -- multiple times -- about the precise coordinates and the location of the cache relative to Disney property because this placement postdated the cellphone cache incident.

 

Good answer, works for me. All the bases are covered on the reviewer side, but 2nd largest metro area in the U.S., covered in the 4th largest newspaper in the U.S., all while these people asked for no more physical caches 6 years ago. I didn't realize it at first, but this is a rather major incident.

[+WRASTRO]

I have talked to the cache owner Team Geo-Rangers and I know people who have talked to the reviewer Marko Ramius, Marko did not know at the time that the final cache location was in Downtown Disney. Unfortunately he does now and he has gotten a lot of heat for it. I don't know if you can blame Marko for it. Although he should have been a little hesitant, the cache owner was a well-respected cacher who has been here for eight years and, combined, has found and placed over 19,500 caches! I think the reviewer trusted that this wasn't on actualy Disney property. Like a previous cacher said, it's been there for six years and hasn't had a problem, but that doesn't mean it was ok. We should make a bad situation better and accept responsibility for it, ask for forgiveness, learn a lesson from it, and move on to place bigger and better caches! Although this is bad publicity, this isn't the first time it as happened on Disney property. We were hoping we learned our lesson from it, and we were doin' good! Now this has come up, but we will pass through it and hopefully continue to have good experiences geocaching.

 

Just my two cents....

Your post assumes that Marko Ramius published the cache. Scroll down to the bottom of the cache page and you will see that, in truth, Marko Ramius did not publish the cache. Thus, I found much of your post to be rather puzzling. Also, see my post above regarding the actual work done by the actual reviewer.

 

Your right, my bad. I thought that he published this cache, didn't look into it enough. Still my point stays the same, you can't blame the reviewer. And please would you care to explain what's so puzzling? I'm just trying to be encouraging

Actually your first post claimed a substantial amount of firsthand knowledge which has since been proven to be a substantial amount of hyperbole. What is puzzling to me is why you would post and claim to have "expert" knowledge when it is apparent that you are blowing smoke. When it is shown that you are making false claims your credibility is less than zero.

[+Shop99er]

Downtown Disney? I recall many years ago when Disney security did not even want us sitting in a vacant lot of theirs around the park. Disney removed physical caches from the park as soon as they found out about them.

 

I thought caches at Disney where banned? Where was this cache listed?

 

FWIW to those that may not realize, Downtown Disney is not in the park. It's a strip of dining, shopping, and entertainment venues and is open to the public without a fee.

 

But is still Disney property.

[+Team Geo-Rangers]

"FWIW to those that may not realize, Downtown Disney is not in the park. It's a strip of dining, shopping, and entertainment venues and is open to the public without a fee."

 

Right, and thus a very small nano/micro was placed in 2005 and moved a few times after disappearing. It was regularly maintained because so many in this community were working on the same goal of finding a geocache in every state and looked forward to visiting from outside California. The matchstick container shown in the news photo was never the final cache container. First finders found a camo'd SD memory card holder case, others found a black nano, etc.

 

The only way a seeker could obtain the final coordinates was to qualify and then send an email to receive them. Guidelines have changed for challenge caches and now the coordinates have to match the final hide, even though the ? icon is used.

 

According to the news, it took responders ~68 minutes to determine that what they found was a geocache. Was unaware of a prior incident at Disneyland Park, until someone posted a note about it on the cache page today. Regret any inconvenience this caused patrons at Downtown Disney yesterday and to those still working on the 50 state challenge, that now lack a final cache to seek.

[+webscouter.]

"FWIW to those that may not realize, Downtown Disney is not in the park. It's a strip of dining, shopping, and entertainment venues and is open to the public without a fee."

 

Right, and thus a very small nano/micro was placed in 2005 and moved a few times after disappearing. It was regularly maintained because so many in this community were working on the same goal of finding a geocache in every state and looked forward to visiting from outside California. The matchstick container shown in the news photo was never the final cache container. First finders found a camo'd SD memory card holder case, others found a black nano, etc.

 

The only way a seeker could obtain the final coordinates was to qualify and then send an email to receive them. Guidelines have changed for challenge caches and now the coordinates have to match the final hide, even though the ? icon is used.

 

According to the news, it took responders ~68 minutes to determine that what they found was a geocache. Was unaware of a prior incident at Disneyland Park, until someone posted a note about it on the cache page today. Regret any inconvenience this caused patrons at Downtown Disney yesterday and to those still working on the 50 state challenge, that now lack a final cache to seek.

 

I personally know that one finder found both a memory card holder AND a black nano.

[+Don_J]

"FWIW to those that may not realize, Downtown Disney is not in the park. It's a strip of dining, shopping, and entertainment venues and is open to the public without a fee."

 

Right, and thus a very small nano/micro was placed in 2005 and moved a few times after disappearing. It was regularly maintained because so many in this community were working on the same goal of finding a geocache in every state and looked forward to visiting from outside California. The matchstick container shown in the news photo was never the final cache container. First finders found a camo'd SD memory card holder case, others found a black nano, etc.

 

The only way a seeker could obtain the final coordinates was to qualify and then send an email to receive them. Guidelines have changed for challenge caches and now the coordinates have to match the final hide, even though the ? icon is used.

 

According to the news, it took responders ~68 minutes to determine that what they found was a geocache. Was unaware of a prior incident at Disneyland Park, until someone posted a note about it on the cache page today. Regret any inconvenience this caused patrons at Downtown Disney yesterday and to those still working on the 50 state challenge, that now lack a final cache to seek.

 

Certainly, you can find a place a few miles up a mountain trail to place an ammo can. Heck, I'll even donate the can. In fact, if you don't place a new cache, I just may.

 

A micro for such an important and worthwhile challenge confuses me.

 

I realize that your cache kind of fell through the cracks in a number of ways. Disney was instituting a new policy on physical caches, a changing of the guard was happening on the reviewer forefront, and we were months away from "additional waypoints".

 

The fact that your cache existed for so long brings up something that has been touched on in a few different hot topics this week. You admit that the first finders of the cache found a different cache than the last finders. Did you change the cache, or did some other helpful geocacher do it? This is the problem when "helpful" geocachers replace caches, (throwdowns). You no longer know what and how they hid it. It's possible that they did not hide it as intended and made it more conspicuous to the landscapers.

[+Don_J]

 

I personally know that one finder found both a memory card holder AND a black nano.

 

Posted while I was typing. I guess that answered my question.

 

I have never had it happen, but if someone admitted to a throwdown on one of my caches, I would consider deleting the log and I would make it a priority to check my cache. FWIW, I have only deleted one out of over 4700 find logs on my caches. The logger was German, didn't speak English and obviously logged the wrong cache, as she cached in Germany that day and couldn't have possibly hiked six miles into the Santa Monica Mountains.

 

Oh, Webscouter, I have a feeling I know who you are referring to. I'll ask the next time we bump heads.

[Keystone]

I realize that your cache kind of fell through the cracks in a number of ways. Disney was instituting a new policy on physical caches, a changing of the guard was happening on the reviewer forefront, and we were months away from "additional waypoints".

Please provide specific evidence that the reviewer ignored Disney's statement about caches on their property, that the reviewer was inattentive due to a future transition of his duties, and/or that the reviewer failed to ask about the actual cache location relative to the Disney property. You seem to realize something that I am not seeing in the archived cache logs. What is the basis for your statement that the review "fell through the cracks?"

[+sbell111]

... First finders found a camo'd SD memory card holder case, others found a black nano, etc.

Are you saying that the bomb squad was called out to deal with one of these:

 

Edited February 24, 2011 by sbell111

[+geodarts]

"FWIW to those that may not realize, Downtown Disney is not in the park. It's a strip of dining, shopping, and entertainment venues and is open to the public without a fee."

 

Right, and thus a very small nano/micro was placed in 2005 and moved a few times after disappearing.

 

I guess we could debate about what constitutes "adequate permission" to leave a container on private property, even if it is otherwise open to the public for specific reasons - Disney property in particular would give me pause. Still, leaving that issue aside for the time being, closing a section of the downtown area for 90 minutes because of a nano gives me even more of a pause. It could not have made much of a ka-boom when the bomb squad came out.

 

I know that the squad had been out for film cans -- but is this a new record?

Edited February 24, 2011 by mulvaney

[+northernpenguin]

"FWIW to those that may not realize, Downtown Disney is not in the park. It's a strip of dining, shopping, and entertainment venues and is open to the public without a fee."

 

Right, and thus a very small nano/micro was placed in 2005 and moved a few times after disappearing.

 

I guess we could debate about what constitutes "adequate permission" to leave a container on private property, even if it is otherwise open to the public for specific reasons - Disney property in particular would give me pause. Still, leaving that issue aside for the time being, closing a section of the downtown area for 90 minutes because of a nano gives me even more of a pause. It could not have made much of a ka-boom when the bomb squad came out.

 

I know that the squad had been out for film cans -- but is this a new record?

 

Yeah, I have difficulty with this too. I know in Hollywood sometimes things this tiny can wipe out an entire city but not so much in real life. I have to wonder just what they thought that nano was made out of .....

[+ventura_kids]

Perhaps it was a Nevada nano. Edited February 24, 2011 by ventura_kids

[+tvchick]

Yeah, I have difficulty with this too. I know in Hollywood sometimes things this tiny can wipe out an entire city but not so much in real life. I have to wonder just what they thought that nano was made out of .....

 

I have a hard time believing the bomb squad would be called in for a nano. Nanos are the sort of thing a muggle would pick up and throw in the trash thinking it's a pen cap or eraser. Ditto on something as tiny as an SD memory card. I wonder if there was some other "throwdown" (neat term) that was much bigger left here.

[+wimseyguy]

Perhaps it was a Nevada nano.

I know Jeeps can go almost anywhere, but how did you get it up there? The elevation must be flatter behind this bluff?

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Yeah, I have difficulty with this too. I know in Hollywood sometimes things this tiny can wipe out an entire city but not so much in real life. I have to wonder just what they thought that nano was made out of .....

 

I have a hard time believing the bomb squad would be called in for a nano. Nanos are the sort of thing a muggle would pick up and throw in the trash thinking it's a pen cap or eraser. Ditto on something as tiny as an SD memory card. I wonder if there was some other "throwdown" (neat term) that was much bigger left here.

 

Could it have been the actions of cachers that cuased hte concern? Someone saw a person grab something, fiddle with it, and return it?

[jholly]

Yeah, I have difficulty with this too. I know in Hollywood sometimes things this tiny can wipe out an entire city but not so much in real life. I have to wonder just what they thought that nano was made out of .....

 

I have a hard time believing the bomb squad would be called in for a nano. Nanos are the sort of thing a muggle would pick up and throw in the trash thinking it's a pen cap or eraser. Ditto on something as tiny as an SD memory card. I wonder if there was some other "throwdown" (neat term) that was much bigger left here.

It's called a training opportunity.

[+sbell111]

Yeah, I have difficulty with this too. I know in Hollywood sometimes things this tiny can wipe out an entire city but not so much in real life. I have to wonder just what they thought that nano was made out of .....

 

I have a hard time believing the bomb squad would be called in for a nano. Nanos are the sort of thing a muggle would pick up and throw in the trash thinking it's a pen cap or eraser. Ditto on something as tiny as an SD memory card. I wonder if there was some other "throwdown" (neat term) that was much bigger left here.

 

Could it have been the actions of cachers that cuased hte concern? Someone saw a person grab something, fiddle with it, and return it?

I'd buy that if this was your normal microcache. However, this one is the final of a challenge that few people complete. No one has logged a find on it since November. Plus, the article stated that castmembers found the cache during a normal review of the area.

[+Don_J]

I realize that your cache kind of fell through the cracks in a number of ways. Disney was instituting a new policy on physical caches, a changing of the guard was happening on the reviewer forefront, and we were months away from "additional waypoints".

Please provide specific evidence that the reviewer ignored Disney's statement about caches on their property, that the reviewer was inattentive due to a future transition of his duties, and/or that the reviewer failed to ask about the actual cache location relative to the Disney property. You seem to realize something that I am not seeing in the archived cache logs. What is the basis for your statement that the review "fell through the cracks?"

 

You seem to have me at a disadvantage, as I am not privy to any private correspondence between the reviewer and the CO. My opinion was based on assumptions. We all where that can lead one. I apologize if I offended anyone. It was not my intention.

 

I do stand by my other point. Placing a cache in a busy area and then letting other cachers do your maintenance for six years, is eventually going to cause a problem.

[+webscouter.]

I realize that your cache kind of fell through the cracks in a number of ways. Disney was instituting a new policy on physical caches, a changing of the guard was happening on the reviewer forefront, and we were months away from "additional waypoints".

Please provide specific evidence that the reviewer ignored Disney's statement about caches on their property, that the reviewer was inattentive due to a future transition of his duties, and/or that the reviewer failed to ask about the actual cache location relative to the Disney property. You seem to realize something that I am not seeing in the archived cache logs. What is the basis for your statement that the review "fell through the cracks?"

 

You seem to have me at a disadvantage, as I am not privy to any private correspondence between the reviewer and the CO. My opinion was based on assumptions. We all where that can lead one. I apologize if I offended anyone. It was not my intention.

 

I do stand by my other point. Placing a cache in a busy area and then letting other cachers do your maintenance for six years, is eventually going to cause a problem.

 

At the time I found both cache containers they had both been placed by the cache owner. He had placed the nano after the SD case had gone missing. I found the SD case first and since I knew he had placed the nano I continued looking until I found that as well.

[+Don_J]

I realize that your cache kind of fell through the cracks in a number of ways. Disney was instituting a new policy on physical caches, a changing of the guard was happening on the reviewer forefront, and we were months away from "additional waypoints".

Please provide specific evidence that the reviewer ignored Disney's statement about caches on their property, that the reviewer was inattentive due to a future transition of his duties, and/or that the reviewer failed to ask about the actual cache location relative to the Disney property. You seem to realize something that I am not seeing in the archived cache logs. What is the basis for your statement that the review "fell through the cracks?"

 

You seem to have me at a disadvantage, as I am not privy to any private correspondence between the reviewer and the CO. My opinion was based on assumptions. We all where that can lead one. I apologize if I offended anyone. It was not my intention.

 

I do stand by my other point. Placing a cache in a busy area and then letting other cachers do your maintenance for six years, is eventually going to cause a problem.

 

At the time I found both cache containers they had both been placed by the cache owner. He had placed the nano after the SD case had gone missing. I found the SD case first and since I knew he had placed the nano I continued looking until I found that as well.

 

Okay, I'm obviously way off base here. I will admit that some of my opinions are based on being somewhat local to the area and on past incidents that are not truly related to this specific topic. I'm going to back off and remove my hands from the keyboard for a bit. I again apologize if I offended or led anyone astray. I have been doing this Internet message thing since 1993, but I don't believe I have ever stepped in a pile this deep. I think I'll simply extract myself, get cleaned up and move on.

 

Thanks...

[tommytrojan360]

I have talked to the cache owner Team Geo-Rangers and I know people who have talked to the reviewer Marko Ramius, Marko did not know at the time that the final cache location was in Downtown Disney. Unfortunately he does now and he has gotten a lot of heat for it. I don't know if you can blame Marko for it. Although he should have been a little hesitant, the cache owner was a well-respected cacher who has been here for eight years and, combined, has found and placed over 19,500 caches! I think the reviewer trusted that this wasn't on actualy Disney property. Like a previous cacher said, it's been there for six years and hasn't had a problem, but that doesn't mean it was ok. We should make a bad situation better and accept responsibility for it, ask for forgiveness, learn a lesson from it, and move on to place bigger and better caches! Although this is bad publicity, this isn't the first time it as happened on Disney property. We were hoping we learned our lesson from it, and we were doin' good! Now this has come up, but we will pass through it and hopefully continue to have good experiences geocaching.

 

Just my two cents....

Your post assumes that Marko Ramius published the cache. Scroll down to the bottom of the cache page and you will see that, in truth, Marko Ramius did not publish the cache. Thus, I found much of your post to be rather puzzling. Also, see my post above regarding the actual work done by the actual reviewer.

 

Your right, my bad. I thought that he published this cache, didn't look into it enough. Still my point stays the same, you can't blame the reviewer. And please would you care to explain what's so puzzling? I'm just trying to be encouraging

Actually your first post claimed a substantial amount of firsthand knowledge which has since been proven to be a substantial amount of hyperbole. What is puzzling to me is why you would post and claim to have "expert" knowledge when it is apparent that you are blowing smoke. When it is shown that you are making false claims your credibility is less than zero.

 

Eeeeeshhh

 

Didn't mean to make you upset. And I'm not blowing smoke, I never said I had expert knowledge. All I posted was what I was told, from what I thought were good sources, friends of Marko and Team Geo-Rangers, guess that doesn't count though? And I'm glad it makes you feel good about yourself to verbally abuse someone over a forum after I apoligized for what I thought was the truth and was worng. Sorry I'm human and make mistakes. Hope you have a wonderful evening!