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What the heck are the rules for GeoCaching?


Morty's Twisted World
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I can't seem to find a decent set of rules for GeoCaching. The admins are tearing me apart with my creative caches. Well mainly Admin Mtn-Man is. So does anyone have a detailed set of rules? I read the rules on the cache creation page, but those are extremely vague.

 

I tried to hide a I micro that doesn't have a log book, but inside it is a secret word that needs to be emailed to me. The idea was its all about the hunt not so much the trading of goodies. Therefore I made the cache an "Unknown/Surprise" cache. It was either that or make it a Virtual. My cache was archived by Mtn-Man this morning, stating that I can't hide a cache without a log book. What's the deal?!?

 

Anyone help clarify things for me? And why are the rules so stinken strict? This sport is suppose to be about having fun. Is it not?

 

Morty

GeoCache now, die later!

 

[This message was edited by Morty's Twisted World on March 11, 2003 at 05:04 AM.]

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I think the line of reasoning here (which I agree with) is that if a container is big enough for a log sheet (and a film cannister is), then there is no reason for not having a log sheet. If the cache is too small for a log sheet, then that is another story (there are a few like this in our area).

 

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

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I just had one dozen caches denied that I placed this past weekend. The caches were part of my Highway Drive series. Each cache was an altoid's can, with a three digit number written inside. I tossed the cans at high speed from my car and marked a waypoint, thus increasing the fun of finding.

 

I had anouther cache denied last month, for this one I pained a big red number onto a Llama on my farm, and people had to drive up and find the llama and tell me the number in order to log it.

 

For this other cache, from back in November, I wrote down the serial number of a soccer ball at the local YMCA... Of course, they rejected it! WTF!

 

I almost quit back in March, after they turned down my "How Many Pop Cans Are In Your House" locationless virtual mystery cache.

 

Why does geocaching have to be so strict!??! icon_mad.gif

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Mort, I'd suggest starting where you're at - do a search through these forums. You'll find links to the FAQ, links to the guidelines, as well as discussions on guidelines so current that they haven't yet made it to the site. You'll also read discussions on why not all rules or restrictions are always posted as quickly as the situations crop up. There have been recent discussions about micro cache log books in these forums and the FAQ has a whole paragraph devoted to log books and log sheets as the primary content required of physical caches.

 

If you have an out-of-the-ordinary cache situation in mind you might also consider running it by a cache approver before taking the trouble to hide it and post it. He/she would be able to advise you on whether it would fly or not and make suggestions on how to make it work within the guidelines.

 

erik - geocaching.com admin

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This might help in your particular question, its from the geocaching.com FAQ:

quote:
What is usually in a cache?

 

A cache can come in many forms but the first item should always be the logbook. In its simplest form a cache can be just a logbook and nothing else. The logbook contains information from the founder of the cache and notes from the cache's visitors. The logbook can contain much valuable, rewarding, and entertaining information. A logbook might contain information about nearby attractions, coordinates to other unpublished caches, and even jokes written by visitors. If you get some information from a logbook you should give some back. At the very least you can leave the date and time you visited the cache.


 

If your container is not big enough fro even a slip of paper... well, then you need a slightly bigger container. I have personally managed to put a 'This is a geocache' note, a log sheet, and two micro pencils into a water-proof container that is smaller than my pinkie finger, so I know it can be done. icon_smile.gif

 

Mr. Snazz, I liked you post icon_biggrin.gif

 

__________________

Alan - geocaching.com admin

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Beats the heck out of me. Film Canisters used to be considered too small for a log book.

 

Now they seem to require one.

 

I'm really not interested in making a sucky log book that takes all the space out of the micro for trades. In larger caches this is not a problem there are lots of smaller type logs out there that would work.

 

In my opinion (and mine don't count since I'm not an admin) I like reading on line logs anyway and that's been my policy on hiding micro's. Interesting trade log your find online...

 

In your case though it was the emailng of the code that made your cache crash and burn. This form of verification has been recently hashed over and shot down in flames in the forums. Actualy any form of email verification of a traditional cache seems to be verboten these days.

 

Work with mtn-man he's actually reasonable even if you don't see eye to eye with him.

 

Wherever you go there you are.

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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:

In your case though it was the emailng of the code that made your cache crash and burn. This form of verification has been recently hashed over and shot down in flames in the forums. Actualy any form of email verification of a traditional cache seems to be verboten these days.


 

One variation which seems to be okay is a send-code-for-coords cache.

 

I have pre-approval for a cache which involves getting several numbers from non-fixed locations and then entering them into a web page, which yeilds the coords of the actual cache if the numbers are correct.

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Well, that sounds like a Multi to me.

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:

 

One variation which seems to be okay is a send-code-for-coords cache.

 

I have pre-approval for a cache which involves getting several numbers from non-fixed locations and then entering them into a web page, which yeilds the coords of the actual cache if the numbers are correct.


 

39197_2100.gif

Do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

Mokita!

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I hid a magnet. Just a magnet. Its basically a virtual that requires more of a hunt. You find the magnet that's about the size of a quarter and you will find a secret word on it. And as far as people sharing the "secret" words with one another, who the heck cares. Ya its great to have a high number of finds but if someone is cheating and putting finds that aren't really finds, who cares? Not like there is prize money. What keeps any of us from logging a traditional cache as a find. Really think the cache owners thumb through the log books and compare it to the logs online and delete the people that didn't handwrite in the logbook? Heck no!

 

But to be honest, I think Mtn-Man has it in for me strickly because at one time I linked to my personal website which is considered not to be "family oriented" which GeoCaching.com is. And I have no problem with that. It wasn't something I should of thought better of. My site may have insulted him to such a degree that he wants nothing to do with me anymore and would probably remove me as a member of GeoCaching if he could.

 

Morty

GeoCache now, die later!

 

[This message was edited by Morty's Twisted World on March 10, 2003 at 03:47 PM.]

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Morty, I can assure you that mtn-man is not unreasonable and does not have "it in" for members of the geocaching community.

 

This is a new and growing sport, with creative innovations appearing daily. Some of them color inside the lines, some right on the lines, and some outside the lines. Of the ones outside the lines, some will expand the boundaries of the sport and make it bigger and better.

 

That said, I fail to see how hiding a magnet can be classified as innovative, creative, or beneficial to the sport. That's just my personal opinion, but if I had seen it first, I would have questioned it, too.

 

—geocaching.com admin gpsfun

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The idea of hiding the magnet, like I said, was strictly for the search and nothing more. Area of my cache is covered with metal and it required a bit of logic from my cache description with simple reasoning to narrow down where it was.

 

So back to my original question. Other than reading throughout the forum to get people's "opinions," is there a page with a set of rules that aren't vague? Because the creativity of a cache can be shot down strictly by an admin's opinion rather than the possible quality of a cache.

 

Morty

GeoCache now, die later!

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quote:
creativity of a cache can be shot down strictly by an admin's opinion rather than the possible quality of a cache

 

Why rethink the wheel? Why not be creative while staying within the rules that we all know and love.

icon_smile.gif

 

I doubt sometimes whether a quiet and unagited life would have suited me - yet I sometimes long for it.

Byron

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

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I'm reminded of my first visit to a pool hall. Specific rules? Sure - shoot the stripes or solids, whichever yours are, don't sink the eight until all of yours are off the table first, don't scratch, etc. But that didn't make me a pool player - I had to watch the old salts and the sharks to learn how the game is really played.

 

I think that's what is being suggested here.

 

(By the way, I never made it as a pool player. I hope you do better at geocaching than I did at pool.)

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quote:
Originally posted by Morty's Twisted World:

Other than reading throughout the forum to get people's "opinions," is there a page with a set of rules that aren't vague? Because the creativity of a cache can be shot down strictly by an admin's opinion rather than the possible quality of a cache.


 

More evidence that you can't please everyone. Last week, the complaint was that the guidelines were too strict (see the recent threads on logbooks in caches); this week, it's that the rules are too vague and lead to too much subjectivity. It looks to me like the admins are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

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quote:
Originally posted by Morty's Twisted World:

I hid a magnet. Just a magnet.


To some of us that have been at this awhile, we would classify that as geo-litter, rather than creative. Much like find the sneaker.

 

_________________________________

Member:

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Thank you for the good laugh!

 

 

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:

I just had _one dozen_ caches denied that I placed this past weekend. The caches were part of my Highway Drive series. Each cache was an altoid's can, with a three digit number written inside. I tossed the cans at high speed from my car and marked a waypoint, thus increasing the fun of finding.

 

I had anouther cache denied last month, for this one I pained a big red number onto a Llama on my farm, and people had to drive up and find the llama and tell me the number in order to log it.

 

For this other cache, from back in November, I wrote down the serial number of a soccer ball at the local YMCA... Of course, they rejected it! WTF!

 

I almost quit back in March, after they turned down my "How Many Pop Cans Are In Your House" locationless virtual mystery cache.

 

Why does geocaching have to be so strict!??! icon_mad.gif


 

-------------------------------------

Hope is the destination that we seek.

Love is the road that leads to hope.

Courage is the motor that drives us.

We travel out of darkness into faith.

 

-=The Book Of Counted Sorrows=-

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I enjoy GeoCaching for the hunt and trying to use my GPS to guide me through woods, parks, mountains, and streams. Its like taking my computer with me but having more fun with it. Opening the cache and choosing between the happy meal toy or the beanie baby isn't the part I look forward to. Its the hunt. I just figured there might be other people out there who feel the same and they would be the one's going for the hunt I set up. If its not there thing, they wouldn't waste their time with my cache.

 

But as to the Admins being damned if they do or don't, there wouldn't be complaints or at least I wouldn't be complaining at least, if I could have a set of rules, that are set and locked down for me to follow. If they are strict, oh well. But if each "type" of cache category has its own set of rules, I would be more than happy to follow them. Its when a category sounds like the idea in my head would be good, and then it turns out to be denied, that's when it gets frustrating.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the Admins are doing a great job. I just think it would be easier for them and a heck less frustrating for the average cacher if there were a set of rules in print. Something more than what's already displayed.

 

Morty

GeoCache now, die later!

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My 462 micros were denied after I went to the tremendous trouble of airdropping them randomly around the Tacoma area. To log the find, you had to recover all the containers and assemble the numbers into a mathematical formula. You only got one set of coordinates, you had to search for the containers. The Hilltop micros were to be the most challenging.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

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I think the problem is Morty, several of your caches that were archived were toilet caches. (Literally) I don't think that the geocaching community has an unhealthy obsession with toilets and bodily fucntions like you do. Yes, there are many words in the english language that are not 'dirty' words that is true. But when someone tries to play with them that makes them dirty.

 

Most of the caches archived recently and I see that most you own have some sort of euphemism attached to them. As well as a link to your filthy website, which I see you have at least removed that. But I still see you have a vulgar picture for your avatar, and on your profile page. I guess 2 stick figures one with long hair, the other with short hair. Is that not enough to define the differences between sexes? You must take it a step further and add more just to be vulgar. Even a long haired freak like me was able to tell the difference between boy and girl without your additional graphics added.

 

The other problem is you have a habbit of dropping caches everywhere but your own state. Who's going to maintain these caches? Who will verify that these caches are missing if they cannot be found? Will they just be assumed missing then archived and left for Geo-liter if they are indeed still there? What's your goal a cache in all 50 states? Ain't gonna happen..

 

Randall J. Berry

davros@mdgps.net

MicroLogo.jpg

 

www.mdgps.net

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All I was asking for was a given set of rules that are detailed. I had no problem with the admins being against my poor choice of wording. That's very understandable. And I understand that the link to my personal website wasn't agreeable as you mentioned in an email that some kid may disregard the OVER 18 on my site and go right in. Just like kids do on anyways. I understand that. Poor choice to put my website address in the box that says YOUR WEBSITE ADDRESS. Just habit more than anything and didn't think about the kids that aren't being supervised or on PCs without parental control. I understand all that.

 

I started this post as a simple request for a list of rules. But from the links that several people have emailed me, I realize the rules I've been reading is all there is and all there is going to be. And that I can understand too.

 

Morty

GeoCache now, die later!

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quote:
Originally posted by Morty's Twisted World:

...The admins are tearing me apart with my creative caches. Well mainly Admin Mtn-Man is.


 

Morty, my man, let me give you one word: plastique.

 

er wait, I mean: chill.

 

Mtn-Man's one of the gud guys, m'kay?

 

quote:

So does anyone have a detailed set of rules?


 

No. 'detailed set of rules' is fer bureacrats, not hobbies. Well, except chess, but chess isn't really a hobby, it's sort of a slow death wish.

 

Now where was I?

 

quote:

I read the rules on the cache creation page, but those are extremely vague.


 

Yeah. I hear the 10 commandments have that problem to. Still, they more or less work for those who more or less try to make them work.

 

Work with me here, Morty.

 

quote:

I tried to hide a I micro that doesn't have a log book, ...

 

My cache was archived by Mtn-Man this morning, stating that I can't hide a cache without a log book. What's the deal?!?


 

The rules changed. Doncha just hate it when that happens?

 

quote:

Anyone help clarify things for me?


 

Sure. As the hobby grows, things that worked when it was small aren't such a good idea any more. When that gets noticed, the rules change. Not everbody gets the memo, but life's like that.

 

quote:
And why are the rules so stinken strict?

 

strict? strict would be if you could only use 50-mm ammo cans bought specifically from cheaper-than-dirt and painted cammo brown; and you had to have a form signed in triplicate by the land steward approving your cache.

 

You want strict? You couldn't handle strict.

 

quote:

This sport is suppose to be about having fun. Is it not?


 

Of course it is. So's CalvinBall. Know how we tell we're geocaching and not playing CalvinBall?

 

That's right, Billy, we play by the geocaching rules.

 

Seriously, the situation's fluid. Follow the forums for discussions on the changing scene. And, by all means, come to the geocache IRC channel and meet the meat.

 

Marty Fouts

ae6ip

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There are two sides to every story.

 

I did not shoot down the cache because of your web site. Other admins and I think even the owners of the site have asked you to remove the link. My problem is the fact that you recently drove across country and placed caches at rest stops in each state along the way. None had logbooks, and since they only had a finite number of slips of paper in them with no Geocaching note they were doomed to eventually become trash. You said that you had no way to maintain them since you may never drive this road again. In further conversations about the guidelines, which I emailed more than once, you said that you placed one of the rest area caches on a farmer's private property next to the rest area without permission. That is a huge no-no. That cache was archived.

 

I went over the guidelines several times. I sent links to them. I explained the critical passages. I can't make it much more clear than I have. Amazingly enough, you posted another cache today with just a magnet with a number on it and you wanted that to be a virtual or whatever so it could get approved. I mean, come on...

 

Tonight I sent the three pages that list all the guidelines or rules that we go by, which you have noted that you have read before:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/articles/requirements.asp

http://www.geocaching.com/faq.asp

http://www.geocaching.com/articles/making.asp

 

These are easy to find on the site and if you are going to hide or find a cache you should read all of this anyway. There are two links to the "requirements" page on the "Hide-a-Cache" page. From your email I think you are getting it finally, but reading all this I'm not sure. Well, enough preaching.

 

Funny -- MrSnazz's post is so very funny, but it is almost basically what you did with your cross-country rest area cache blitz. The other cacher’s posts were very funny too. Very funny Criminal! My sincere thanks to those who have given me support here as well. Thanks for your help today as work got crazy and then ClayJar's Official Chat consumed me.

 

And Marty... you are my hero. icon_biggrin.gif

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