Misleading?

[+~Out2GetMe~]

Ok , been doing this for a little bit and this is the first time i ran across this, so i ask a moderator or someone who is really GOOD with the nooks and cranny's of the rules.

 

I have now wasted a bit of gas driving out to this cach a few times. So now i have not found it, his post reads. ((If you come up empty, post a DNF and e-mail me for a hint.))

 

Cach info: The cache is an ammo box that blends in pretty well with its surroundings.

 

So after no luck, and we have been good on finding ammo boxes type cach. I send e-mail. PLEASE HELP! : )

 

The reply i get is, (( The hint is, its a small 35 mm film container, cammo.

 

OK, So here is my question. Can you post its a ammo box, but its not? It is really a little 35 mm film container?

Cause if that is ok to do, then i should step my hides up on difficulty and say, its a med lock and lock, and then hide a micro / nano. ("Now guess what size your looking for")

 

Even the smallest ammo box i have looked up at 1/35th scale is twice to almost 3x the size of a 35 mm film container, by size.

 

So, is this wrong to post it this way? To me it seems misleading and wrong. I think my gas tank does not like it either.

Maybe it should be a mystery cach? or something? It just seems misleading, and we are not the only ones posting, they cant find it, or spent 45 min, with no luck.

 

THANKS to any one, that can help on this.

[+BCandMsKitty]

I'd say it is wrong.

If they want to be sneaky about the size of the container, they could at least use the "Size not chosen" option (which I don't appreciate either)

 

If one wants to make their cache harder to find, then make it harder to find.

Making it harder artificially is just wrong.

[+Chokecherry]

I've been known to put such details in my found it logs. "Found cache was not an ammo can but rather something that more resembles a micro."

[+mtn-man]

From a reviewer point of view I would say this...

 

There are liar caches out there, yes. In a case like this regarding the container, I think it is irresponsible. If you are looking for an ammo box, you would expect an easier hunt due to the size. You will obviously spend more time out there looking since you are being mislead. This will mean you will be trampling the area more than you really need to with a well planned and executed cache. This leads to undo environmental impact. Now, multiply that times multiple cachers. You end up with an area that becomes chewed up over time due to the impact of people going round and round, then expanding their search out creating a wider area of trampling. The evidence is probably clear with the cache area that it isn't as natural looking any more. A well executed cache will minimize this. While some think it is funny to mislead people like this, it isn't. Then again, perhaps the cache was an ammo box at first and has been changed after being stolen. In this case, the cache owner should update the page so people once again don't spend an undo amount of time trampling the area.

 

I would write to the cacher and ask which scenario is true. If they are smug about it in their reply, then write your local reviewer.

[GOF and Bacall]

Just what the ignore list is for.

[+cache_test_dummies]

What size is assigned to the cache on the listing page?

 

I searched for a similar cache once that took me several trips to find. The cache page used the words "ammo can" to describe the cache, but it wasn't until after my second failed attempt that I noticed the size was listed as "unknown". It suddenly occurred to me that the cache container might be an "ammo can", but not be a real ammo can. The next time I went back, I searched without assuming anything about size, and sure enough, found the cache.

 

I really enjoyed the cache. The listing page provided an accurate description, but my initial assumptions were wrong.

[+Ecylram]

There are micro sizes ammo cans that are made for geocaching. If that was the container and the size was listed as 'micro', I wouldn't be upset if it happened to me. Ya gotta check the size when caching.

 

My guess is that the original got muggled and they replaced it with a film canister. They should have changed the description at that point. That isn't cool.

[+briansnat]

If he deliberately selected the wrong the size, I'd say that was wrong. It's one thing to make challenging caches. It's a whole 'nother thing to play games with people and waste their time.

[+Ike 13]

My money is on this scenario: 1) Original cache went missing. 2) Owner (or another cacher) placed a film can at the location 3) The description and size never changed.

 

I had a regular cache go missing I moved the location a bit further into the woods and hid a bison. I thought I had changed the size, description, and hint when I reenabled. I did not. It took a month or two and then other people brought it to my attention. I thanked them and changed things. Sometimes it's an honest mistake.

[+mtn-man]

It would be interesting to know that the difficulty and terrain ratings were too. That might have been a clue in addition to the other comments people have made.

 

I am kind of thinking like Ecylram, as if it were stolen, replaced, and not properly updated.

[+Walts Hunting]

I wonder if the OP could give us the GC number so we could all look

[+cache_test_dummies]

Looks like this could be the cache the OP is talking about.

 

Size isn't specified.

 

Pickin' & Grinnin' (PMO cache)

[+KI4HLW]

Until the OP comes back and either posts the size rating, or confirms that is the cache in question all I can talk in hypothetical. But we have a few of those micro ammo cans around here and they are cute to find, but the CO has always listed the size correctly or as unknown. I have no problem with that, if the finder makes an assumption on the size that is their fault. If the CO had said it was a film can and turned out to be some big box used to transport an entire movie worth of film reels we would all be laughing at how creative it was.

 

P.S. I do have a problem with COs who post Other cache size when they should post Unlisted cache size, but that is another manner.

[+NeecesandNephews]

Two words..... Ignore button. When we were brand new to the game we figured out how to use PQ's to filter for larger (easier to find) caches.

Unfortunately, there aren't very many in our area. We are rural, small towns, some beautiful interesting sights, yet there is a proliferation of micros around here. It may be an expense related thing.

I have yet to find a cache that was listed wrong, size wise, but have found some that really should have been "unknown" instead of "micro". But it was a matter of opinion, not enough to complain about.

Without PQ's we always paid attention to : size, difficulty, terrain, and most importantly, we always checked the recent logs for mentions of adverse conditions, either of the area or the cache itself. And especially, strings of DNF's

Not yet being a CO I hesitate to complain about the hides of others. There are some exceptions.

People who think they are being "clever" or "creative" , by being intentionally misleading, will earn an Ignore from me pretty quick.

There is one particular hide about 30 miles or so from us that has been the "poster child" of "Ignore is your friend". It is hidden in Roman Nose State Park. It is a micro in an untraveled area of the park, heavily wooded, and would support the hiding of a city bus.

First downfall... it was hidden in heavy tree cover using a cell phone. ( can you say lousy coords?) The owner will gladly give hints if you are in his circle of friends. All others receive the reply " its still there... keep looking."

Tha cache has been logged 22 times since it was hidden 2/22/2010. 4 of them are finds. The first is a park employee who watched the CO hide it from a distance. The second and third are a husband and wife team with seperate accounts who got phone help. The fourth is the uncle of the park employee.

After several complaints the CO updated his coords by 60 feet. (remember we are talking a micro in a heavily wooded area) Still no new finds. I have watched the DNF's and several are from cachers with finds in the thousands! No telling how many DNF's did not get logged, as some people are funny about that.

We have made four trips to the park for weekend fun, not just for caching, but I have yet to find it. Sent the CO two different emails, and the second one asking for a hint, was replied to with " the only hint I will give you is you need to keep looking in the trees. Or feel free to stop looking."

Aside from my rant (thank you for letting me vent) You are going to find that people's idea of "clever" or "challenging" is not likely to be the same as yours.

Do the best you can, ask for a hint where the owner suggests it, and if you still can't find it, move on to other caches.

I will still take a look if I am in the area, but it's not my main focus.

You can discourage yourself very easily if you allow it.

[+kunarion]

Pickin' & Grinnin'

There's only one log that might suggest it's a micro (the most recent, Jan 13), and that's a stretch. If it's been a 35mm film can all along, someone would have posted something by now. That's likely not the cache the Op's talking about -- it has a Favorite point, and the logs have lots of appreciation for its trickiness. Reading that page, looks like it's tricky to access the exact hide spot, camo'd in an unusual way, and it is (at least until recently) a full-sized ammo can. And it's listed as a high difficulty, which tells me it's gonna be very tough to find this ammo can.

 

To the OP, yes it's misleading to post "Ammo Box" if the container's a 35mm film canister. There are plastic "ammo cans" that would fit inside a 35mm film canister, and it even could be home-made. When a cache description lists a container size as "not chosen", I assume its a Micro (unless there's a reason to think otherwise). However, the CO has a lot of hides -- did they accidentally gave you the wrong hint?

Edited February 20, 2011 by kunarion

[+L0ne.R]

... we have a few of those micro ammo cans around here and they are cute to find

 

Those micro ammo cans are cute. It would be interesting to know if it was a tiny ammo can or a film canister. The reference to an ammo can when in fact it is a film canister is wrong if done deliberately.

 

It looks like it's properly listed - D:4 size: not chosen - if the reference to an ammo can is a micro ammo can (assuming the cache in question is Pickin & Grinnin)

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Wonder if the reply was or was intended to be "it's the size of a 35mm". We've found these (metal). Looks like those who have found are having fun. If we can't find an ammo can, we automatically switch-over to looking for one of these.

[+CachinStrattons]

Aside from any possible, deliberate deception... I would like to note that, according to guidelines:

 

Difficulty 4: A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter – may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

 

Have you taken ropes and climbed trees? I'm just stabbing here, but going after a difficulty rating of 4, really leaves a lot of open opportunities for the hider. Of course, accurate coords and honest attributes should always be expected... I'm just saying that with a difficulty rating of 4, I'm not sure anyone has any right to gripe about how hard the cache is to find.

[+M 5]

I think the CO is out to get the thread starter. J/K, note their username. I actually think it is surely the micro ammocan. It is actually the most common way to represent that container and I think sharks-n-beans is probably correct on the 35mm answer.

[vagabond]

Just what the ignore list is for.

 

+1

Been there done that

[knowschad]

If, as I suspect, this is one of those micro ammo can caches, there are plenty others like it out there. I even had one myself once. There are caches that use deliberate misdirection to make it difficult to find, and this may be another one. That can be part of the fun, if you let it.

 

I remember a cache I found during my first few months of caching. The writeup mentioned that the cache contained a set of tools (listing them out: a pair of pliers, a hammer, etc). Naturally, I was looking for something the size of an ammocan. It took me two trips to discover that it was actually a film cannister that contained a set of tools for a dollhouse! I LOVED it!!

[Pup Patrol]

Without being able to read the cache page, I'm going to make some guesses:

 

1.) It is one of those micro ammo cans. We've found one of those and it's hilarious to see.

 

2.) The situation of the cache changed over time, and perhaps the cache owner didn't realize they could edit the cache page, to post that the situation/container had changed, etc.

 

I'm still going with the belief that it's one of those micro ammo cans.

 

I remember a cache I found during my first few months of caching. The writeup mentioned that the cache contained a set of tools (listing them out: a pair of pliers, a hammer, etc). Naturally, I was looking for something the size of an ammocan. It took me two trips to discover that it was actually a film cannister that contained a set of tools for a dollhouse! I LOVED it!!

 

Knowschad, it would be so fun to find a cache like that. Lucky you.

[+Sol seaker]

Aside from any possible, deliberate deception... I would like to note that, according to guidelines:

 

Difficulty 4: A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter – may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

 

Have you taken ropes and climbed trees? I'm just stabbing here, but going after a difficulty rating of 4, really leaves a lot of open opportunities for the hider. Of course, accurate coords and honest attributes should always be expected... I'm just saying that with a difficulty rating of 4, I'm not sure anyone has any right to gripe about how hard the cache is to find.

 

Well at least he rates it correctly.

 

I've been to one that was listed as an ammo can and it turned out to be one of those micro cans. It was placed in an area that was solid ivy for a long way, and near a homeless camp. I did not find it funny (although I did find it). That one was archived when a cacher got chased by a homeless man with a baseball bat. That wasn't really funny either. I didn't mind that one getting archived though.

 

Some people lie or place bad coords to make their caches difficult because they don't know how to legitimately make them difficult. I do not support these practices.

 

There's one rated a 5 near me that is actually a 2 with bad coords. I didn't mind that as much because people had posted it had bad coords. They posted how far they were off, so I knew the radius I had to search and found in quickly.

 

What I really hate is the tough ones rated a 1 or 2.

 

I do however, really enjoy a good legitimate 4 or 5 difficulty cache now and then.

 

Lying is not a good way to make a tough cache. I don't find it funny.

[+CachinStrattons]

I did not find it funny (although I did find it).

 

I find this comment hilarious for some reason.

 

That one was archived when a cacher got chased by a homeless man with a baseball bat. That wasn't really funny either.

 

I find this comment hilarious for an obvious reason. Who really decides that placing a cache near a... oh, nevermind.

 

There's one rated a 5 near me that is actually a 2 with bad coords.

 

There is one near me that I suspect this is the case for (the coords part, not the difficulty part.) I have looked intensively to no avail, however, it has been found by others fairly recently so I am obviously reluctant to say that it's not there. We have had quite a bit of snow recently (gone now, thankfully) and the whole area seemed to be the "plow depository." The previous finder mentioned that it was under a bunch of snow, so I know it was still there through all that. I need to go back and hunt now that the snow has melted and give it another dedicated search. Gonna have to increase the radius if I turn up nothing.

 

I suspect that the coords are off, but I suppose it could have been a bad reception day for me, or any other number of factors. It's only a 2... I HATE DNFs . So much so, that I refused to look again in the snow. That would only make it more difficult and increase the likelihood of a repeat. Am I sick??? This is a new sensation, and I am unequipped to deal with it, Captain.

Edited February 20, 2011 by CachinStrattons

[+~Out2GetMe~]

Yes its pickin and grinnin cach. I was trying to be polite not to call anyone out. The cach does say size not chosen, and 4 star difficulty. I was just confused on if it was right to post "ammo box" But on hint reply from e-mail 35 mm container,camo. I do not mind to try it again, just was wondering on if it seemed right.

 

To reply : Exact hint reply from e-mail. """It is a magnetic ammo box about the size of a 35 mm."""

 

To other reply: yes when you about get on top of it, your gps goes nuts! Go back this way 15 ft, then you do, then its back 10 feet where you was. So i can see why others have posted about gps problem there.

 

To other reply: That is what i first did was check the logs, to see if it was ever muggled to be exchanged for something else, just no update. Only i found that there is published - coin dropped - and then nothing but finds and no finds, no repairs or muggled reports.

 

To other reply: I was going to post that it might not be an ammo box, But A: I have not found it to confirm it,and B: I did not want to be the one to just give it away, (the size). If that is the way his cach was meant to be. Cause i could see getting mad if someone posted on my hide, saying, IT'S UNDER THE ROCK, NEXT TO THE ONLY PINE TREE! kinda thing ( know what i mean? ) giving it away.

 

That is why i was asking if this seemed misleading, or against the rules.

 

Ah well, i Thank every ones input. I will prob give another go, if i am ever that way again. But after another try or two, this will be my first, give up and ignore listed cach.

 

Thanks again!

Edited February 22, 2011 by ~Out2GetMe~

[+Lil Devil]

Exact hint reply from e-mail. """It is a magnetic ammo box about the size of a 35 mm."""

Given that hint, the description, and lack of a specified size, I see nothing misleading. Of course most people would assume a full-sized ammo can, but the CO did nothing to deceive. Quite the contrary, the difficulty rating pretty much tells you this isn't your average ammo can.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Lil Devil

[+Chokecherry]

It would have been nice to have the exact quote in the original post as it would have greatly changed my answer. It's very clear from the actual hint what you're looking for. Even so far as to say magnet which should seriously narrow down the search. I really hate when you only get bits and pieces of the story.

[+Ike 13]

And there's the rest of the story. Congrats to cache_test_dummies for figuring it out in post 5.

 

Not chosen almost always means something creative and almost always it ends up being a micro log. The cache is also rated a 4.

 

All this tells me it is definitely one of these

So there is no deception and the CO was actually nice enough to give you a very specific hint.

[+Thick or Thin]

Ok , been doing this for a little bit and this is the first time i ran across this, so i ask a moderator or someone who is really GOOD with the nooks and cranny's of the rules.

 

I have now wasted a bit of gas driving out to this cach a few times. So now i have not found it, his post reads. ((If you come up empty, post a DNF and e-mail me for a hint.))

 

Cach info: The cache is an ammo box that blends in pretty well with its surroundings.

 

So after no luck, and we have been good on finding ammo boxes type cach. I send e-mail. PLEASE HELP! : )

 

The reply i get is, (( The hint is, its a small 35 mm film container, cammo.

 

OK, So here is my question. Can you post its a ammo box, but its not? It is really a little 35 mm film container?

Cause if that is ok to do, then i should step my hides up on difficulty and say, its a med lock and lock, and then hide a micro / nano. ("Now guess what size your looking for")

 

Even the smallest ammo box i have looked up at 1/35th scale is twice to almost 3x the size of a 35 mm film container, by size.

 

So, is this wrong to post it this way? To me it seems misleading and wrong. I think my gas tank does not like it either.

Maybe it should be a mystery cach? or something? It just seems misleading, and we are not the only ones posting, they cant find it, or spent 45 min, with no luck.

 

THANKS to any one, that can help on this.

[+Thick or Thin]

Ok , been doing this for a little bit and this is the first time i ran across this, so i ask a moderator or someone who is really GOOD with the nooks and cranny's of the rules.

 

I have now wasted a bit of gas driving out to this cach a few times. So now i have not found it, his post reads. ((If you come up empty, post a DNF and e-mail me for a hint.))

 

Cach info: The cache is an ammo box that blends in pretty well with its surroundings.

 

So after no luck, and we have been good on finding ammo boxes type cach. I send e-mail. PLEASE HELP! : )

 

The reply i get is, (( The hint is, its a small 35 mm film container, cammo.

 

OK, So here is my question. Can you post its a ammo box, but its not? It is really a little 35 mm film container?

Cause if that is ok to do, then i should step my hides up on difficulty and say, its a med lock and lock, and then hide a micro / nano. ("Now guess what size your looking for")

 

Even the smallest ammo box i have looked up at 1/35th scale is twice to almost 3x the size of a 35 mm film container, by size.

 

So, is this wrong to post it this way? To me it seems misleading and wrong. I think my gas tank does not like it either.

Maybe it should be a mystery cach? or something? It just seems misleading, and we are not the only ones posting, they cant find it, or spent 45 min, with no luck.

 

THANKS to any one, that can help on this.

[knowschad]

Ok , been doing this for a little bit and this is the first time i ran across this, so i ask a moderator or someone who is really GOOD with the nooks and cranny's of the rules.

 

I have now wasted a bit of gas driving out to this cach a few times. So now i have not found it, his post reads. ((If you come up empty, post a DNF and e-mail me for a hint.))

 

Cach info: The cache is an ammo box that blends in pretty well with its surroundings.

 

So after no luck, and we have been good on finding ammo boxes type cach. I send e-mail. PLEASE HELP! : )

 

The reply i get is, (( The hint is, its a small 35 mm film container, cammo.

 

OK, So here is my question. Can you post its a ammo box, but its not? It is really a little 35 mm film container?

Cause if that is ok to do, then i should step my hides up on difficulty and say, its a med lock and lock, and then hide a micro / nano. ("Now guess what size your looking for")

 

Even the smallest ammo box i have looked up at 1/35th scale is twice to almost 3x the size of a 35 mm film container, by size.

 

So, is this wrong to post it this way? To me it seems misleading and wrong. I think my gas tank does not like it either.

Maybe it should be a mystery cach? or something? It just seems misleading, and we are not the only ones posting, they cant find it, or spent 45 min, with no luck.

 

THANKS to any one, that can help on this.

 

You said a mouthful!

[+Thick or Thin]

Check This one out. GC 16MA4 I found it and got a good laugh. Every bit of the description is true. The "carels" have hidden quite a few very interesting caches in the State College PA area.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

To other reply: yes when you about get on top of it, your gps goes nuts! Go back this way 15 ft, then you do, then its back 10 feet where you was. So i can see why others have posted about gps problem there.

 

 

A little off topic, but since you mentioned this...

 

You have to remember that a commercial grade GPS has a margin of error of anywhere between 10 to 30 feet on average. If you get inside your GPS's error radius, the GPS more or less thinks you've arrived at the spot it was taking you to. So, sometimes it'll keep bouncing you around inside that circle. 10 feet this way, 15 feet that way, etc. When it does that, I just set the GPS down and start looking and if I don't find the cache, I come back to the GPS after it has had time to settle down.

[+~Out2GetMe~]

Ok , been doing this for a little bit and this is the first time i ran across this, so i ask a moderator or someone who is really GOOD with the nooks and cranny's of the rules.

 

I have now wasted a bit of gas driving out to this cach a few times. So now i have not found it, his post reads. ((If you come up empty, post a DNF and e-mail me for a hint.))

 

Cach info: The cache is an ammo box that blends in pretty well with its surroundings.

 

So after no luck, and we have been good on finding ammo boxes type cach. I send e-mail. PLEASE HELP! : )

 

The reply i get is, (( The hint is, its a small 35 mm film container, cammo.

 

OK, So here is my question. Can you post its a ammo box, but its not? It is really a little 35 mm film container?

Cause if that is ok to do, then i should step my hides up on difficulty and say, its a med lock and lock, and then hide a micro / nano. ("Now guess what size your looking for")

 

Even the smallest ammo box i have looked up at 1/35th scale is twice to almost 3x the size of a 35 mm film container, by size.

 

So, is this wrong to post it this way? To me it seems misleading and wrong. I think my gas tank does not like it either.

Maybe it should be a mystery cach? or something? It just seems misleading, and we are not the only ones posting, they cant find it, or spent 45 min, with no luck.

 

THANKS to any one, that can help on this.

 

You re-posted to much! lol

[+~Out2GetMe~]

Well, thanks everyone for the help, and info.

 

[+mikemtn]

And there's the rest of the story. Congrats to cache_test_dummies for figuring it out in post 5.

 

Not chosen almost always means something creative and almost always it ends up being a micro log. The cache is also rated a 4.

 

All this tells me it is definitely one of these

So there is no deception and the CO was actually nice enough to give you a very specific hint.

So, what kind of ammo does this thing hold. If it's not for ammo it's not an ammo can.

[+Michaelcycle]

And there's the rest of the story. Congrats to cache_test_dummies for figuring it out in post 5.

 

Not chosen almost always means something creative and almost always it ends up being a micro log. The cache is also rated a 4.

 

All this tells me it is definitely one of these

So there is no deception and the CO was actually nice enough to give you a very specific hint.

So, what kind of ammo does this thing hold. If it's not for ammo it's not an ammo can.

 

The first one we found would hold a .22 short, at least We enjoyed the hide once we figured it out.

 

To the OP: Groundspeak sells them as shown in the posted pics

Ammo Can

[+GeoGeeBee]

And there's the rest of the story. Congrats to cache_test_dummies for figuring it out in post 5.

 

Not chosen almost always means something creative and almost always it ends up being a micro log. The cache is also rated a 4.

 

All this tells me it is definitely one of these

So there is no deception and the CO was actually nice enough to give you a very specific hint.

So, what kind of ammo does this thing hold. If it's not for ammo it's not an ammo can.

It holds little, teeny-tiny ammo. Like maybe the .50 caliber ammo for G.I. Joe's teeny-tiny .50 caliber machine gun.