Garmin treating owners of older units with lifetime updates unfairly?

February 16, 2011

Just updated my Nuvi 660 from 2011.30 to 2011.40 and that went fine.

Tried to update my older StreetPilot 2720, which IS compatible with the City Navigator NT maps, and it's only offering me an update from 2011.30 to 2011.31. Yes, I have the lifetime subscription for both units.

Are we now seeing the beginning of Garmin not supporting units as they fall off the "backside" of the radar? I'm sorry, but the "usable lifetime" of my 2720 is NOT over and it's still quite a capable and functional unit. :mad:

7.7k · February 16, 2011

Just updated my Nuvi 660 from 2011.30 to 2011.40 and that went fine.

Tried to update my older StreetPilot 2720, which IS compatible with the City Navigator NT maps, and it's only offering me an update from 2011.30 to 2011.31. Yes, I have the lifetime subscription for both units.

Are we now seeing the beginning of Garmin not supporting units as they fall off the "backside" of the radar? I'm sorry, but the "usable lifetime" of my 2720 is NOT over and it's still quite a capable and functional unit.

Did you ask Garmin about what is going on? I'm curious about what they'll say.

If they were to claim that 2011.40 has some features not compatible with the StreetPilot, how could a consumer disprove that?

February 16, 2011

Did you ask Garmin about what is going on? I'm curious about what they'll say.

I have an email into them as I'm NOT waiting an hour+ on hold, as I have before.

If they were to claim that 2011.40 has some features not compatible with the StreetPilot, how could a consumer disprove that?

Probably couldn't. But, if it's compatible, it's COMPATIBLE. I purchased my 2720 and 660 within 6 months of each other. The 660 updated to 2011.40 just fine. They both have 2 gigs of memory, so that's not an issue. Even if the whole map got too large, the installation application gives you the choice of what areas you want installed so you don't have to load everything.

6k · February 16, 2011

Seems to me that it would be most appropriate to get a response from Garmin before publicly accusing them of inappropriate activity. Waiting a day or two for an email response doesn't seem unreasonable.

I wonder if the OP will post the response if it is a logical one.

Remember there is nothing about this hobby that can't be handled with two martinis and a rare bourbon marinaded bone in ribeye.

February 16, 2011

I didn't accuse anyone of anything. I simply proposed a question. And, yes, I'll post WHATEVER response I get (if I get one) whether it's "logical" or not.

7.7k · February 16, 2011

I didn't accuse anyone of anything.

A post title of "Garmin (word removed) owners of older units with lifetime updates?" does sound rather accusatory to me. It's not what you say, it's how you say it and all that.

You're not happy with Garmin right now, I understand that. I do think this is important information though, and I don't want to dilute the thread with irrelevant stuff. Thanks for bringing up the subject.

I have some thoughts on why this happened, but since I don't work for Garmin and don't possess any facts, I don't see the point in posting groundless speculations. Hoping you get the official word from Garmin soon.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Chrysalides

February 16, 2011

Just did some research. Hmmm... You can BUY a 2011.40 map for the 2720, but they are no longer offering NEW lifetime map subscriptions for it. But, that is NO reason people with existing subscriptions should be cut off. Standby, I guess, for this happening with "newer" older units, too. :rolleyes:

If that makes me "accusatory" of Garmin, then so freakin' be it... I couldn't care LESS...

Edited February 16, 2011 by sviking

7.7k · February 16, 2011

Just did some research. Hmmm... You can BUY a 2011.40 map for the 2720, but they are no longer offering NEW lifetime map subscriptions for it.

OK, that's just wrong. Let's see how Garmin explains that.

February 16, 2011

Well, I could understand Garmin not letting NEW lifetime subscriptions be purchased, but cutting off existing subscriptions? <_<

7.7k · February 16, 2011

Well, I could understand Garmin not letting NEW lifetime subscriptions be purchased, but cutting off existing subscriptions?

What I meant was, if they sell the 2011.40 update for the 2720 on its own, then it should be available to those with existing lifetime subscription.

Not offering new subscription for the 2720 is probably a non issue right now - doubt there would be many takers even if it is still available.

1.3k · February 17, 2011

Garmin has put on several new customer service reps. I have not had to wait more than a couple minutes the last 3 times I’ve called.

February 17, 2011

Garmin has put on several new customer service reps. I have not had to wait more than a couple minutes the last 3 times I’ve called.

Thanks for the intel! I'll have to try calling sometime this week.

February 17, 2011

I'd very much like to know what the difference between 2011.31 and 2011.40 is. Can you say? Thanks.

7.7k · February 17, 2011

I'd very much like to know what the difference between 2011.31 and 2011.40 is. Can you say? Thanks.

0.09

One's newer than the other, and should be more accurate. sviking's point is not that he's not getting 2011.40, but that he fears he's not getting any more updates.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Chrysalides

8.3k · February 17, 2011

I'd very much like to know what the difference between 2011.31 and 2011.40 is. Can you say? Thanks.

Probably the GIS databases were updated with new intersection layouts, could be roads finally made it into the database for new subdivisions, things of that nature. Probably a few changes/additions in the POI data. I had an interchange near me that was reconfigured and took a couple updates before Jill knew where and how the new ramps were, before that she kept trying to route me on the old ramps.

February 17, 2011

There is a ton of construction going on in my area. I see changes in every update.

February 17, 2011

Garmin has put on several new customer service reps. I have not had to wait more than a couple minutes the last 3 times I’ve called.

Thanks for the intel! I'll have to try calling sometime this week.

FREEPHONE Number if it helps: 0808 2380000

5.3k · February 17, 2011

Subject edited with the reminder that this is a family friendly forum. Please keep the language respectful.

February 17, 2011

In the past Garmin has spread out map update availablity over a couple days, likely to lessen server load...etc Perhaps you may still get the update.

February 18, 2011

In the past Garmin has spread out map update availablity over a couple days, likely to lessen server load...etc Perhaps you may still get the update.

No, that's not it... I updated my Nuvi 660 just fine right before trying the 2720.

February 18, 2011

In the past Garmin has spread out map update availablity over a couple days, likely to lessen server load...etc Perhaps you may still get the update.

No, that's not it... I updated my Nuvi 660 just fine right before trying the 2720.

What he is saying is that they may post the update for the 660 one day, then the 2720 a few days or a week later, it prevents their website server from being overloaded with people trying to download the updates, possibly crashing, then no one gets any updates. As an IT guy I can say this is a common practice.

Edited February 18, 2011 by KI4HLW

February 18, 2011

I guess nobody has the answer I'm looking for. My concern is the timing of my one free update, and whether it even matters. Not much has changed where I drive. Thanks anyway.

I'd very much like to know what the difference between 2011.31 and 2011.40 is. Can you say? Thanks.

February 18, 2011

What he is saying is that they may post the update for the 660 one day, then the 2720 a few days or a week later, it prevents their website server from being overloaded with people trying to download the updates, possibly crashing, then no one gets any updates. As an IT guy I can say this is a common practice.

Who knows. I've been updating these two units back-to-back on the same day for years now and never had a problem.

February 18, 2011

Finally got through to Garmin on the phone. Was told "tough you-know-what" as they are NOT offering any more map updates to CURRENT OWNERS with a lifetime subscription. So, now a PERFECTLY good, working unit is, in their eyes, is "no longer useful", which is complete crap.

Stand by for the BS to start trickling "up" to other older units that are "newer" than the StreetPilot 2720... :rolleyes:

7.7k · February 18, 2011

Finally got through to Garmin on the phone. Was told "tough you-know-what" as they are NOT offering any more map updates to CURRENT OWNERS with a lifetime subscription. So, now a PERFECTLY good, working unit is, in their eyes, is "no longer useful", which is complete crap.

Stand by for the BS to start trickling "up" to other older units that are "newer" than the StreetPilot 2720...

That's seriously what they said? Sounds like they're setting themselves up for a class action. Does the subscription say anything about how long is a "lifetime"?

February 18, 2011

Finally got through to Garmin on the phone. Was told "tough you-know-what" as they are NOT offering any more map updates to CURRENT OWNERS with a lifetime subscription. So, now a PERFECTLY good, working unit is, in their eyes, is "no longer useful", which is complete crap.

Stand by for the BS to start trickling "up" to other older units that are "newer" than the StreetPilot 2720...

That does not make sense to me as I have 6 units with lifetime updates including 2 2720's and got 2011.40 loaded on all of them. I got all 2011.40 updates on Wednesday the 16th when they first came out.

Jerry

PS I am in Ohio.

3.2k · February 18, 2011

Finally got through to Garmin on the phone. Was told "tough you-know-what" as they are NOT offering any more map updates to CURRENT OWNERS with a lifetime subscription. So, now a PERFECTLY good, working unit is, in their eyes, is "no longer useful", which is complete crap.

Stand by for the BS to start trickling "up" to other older units that are "newer" than the StreetPilot 2720...

Sorry, I just can't see any customer service rep using a term like "tough you-know-what" or stating a unit is "no longer useful" in a conversation with a customer. If it was said, you should have escalated.

That does not make sense to me as I have 6 units with lifetime updates including 2 2720's and got 2011.40 loaded on all of them. I got all 2011.40 updates on Wednesday the 16th when they first came out.

Jerry

PS I am in Ohio.

Sure seems there is something more to this story than being revealed in this thread.

Edited February 18, 2011 by baloo&bd

7.7k · February 18, 2011

Finally got through to Garmin on the phone. Was told "tough you-know-what" as they are NOT offering any more map updates to CURRENT OWNERS with a lifetime subscription. So, now a PERFECTLY good, working unit is, in their eyes, is "no longer useful", which is complete crap.

Stand by for the BS to start trickling "up" to other older units that are "newer" than the StreetPilot 2720...

That does not make sense to me as I have 6 units with lifetime updates including 2 2720's and got 2011.40 loaded on all of them. I got all 2011.40 updates on Wednesday the 16th when they first came out.

When did you purchase the lifetime subscription for your 2720? (question for both of you)

February 18, 2011

When did you purchase the lifetime subscription for your 2720? (question for both of you)

I purchased my subscription about 2.5 years ago. I purchased the 2720 in early 2006.

Baloo&bd, NO...the service rep didn't actually tell me "tough you-know-what". :rolleyes: That was the GIST of the conversation, if you couldn't tell. He DID say that product was no longer supported via lifetime map upgrades. He did not actually give me a reason why, but I basically pried it out of him that it was because it was "too old" now. What other reason could it have possibly been?

Moorheadbigj, good for you. Wish we were all that lucky...

YES, I did escalate this. It's now a trouble ticket off to the land of "higher ups". We'll see if it ever goes anywhere... :rolleyes:

Edited February 18, 2011 by sviking

February 18, 2011

¹ Free Lifetime Map Updates entitle you to receive up to 4 map data updates per year, when and as such updates are made available on the Garmin website, for this specific Garmin product only until this product's useful life expires or Garmin no longer receives map data from its third party supplier, whichever is shorter. The updates you receive will be updates to the same geographic map data originally included with your Garmin product when originally purchased. Garmin may terminate your Lifetime Map Updates at any time if you violate any of the terms of the End User License Agreement accompanying your nüvi product.

This is at the bottom of every unit with lifetime map updates. It's been there for as long as I can remember.

Edited February 18, 2011 by bullygoat29

1k · February 18, 2011

I was just about to post that also. Just for reference, it's also located under the "Requirements" tab of the product description page on Garmins website.

Edited February 18, 2011 by ao318

February 18, 2011

¹ Free Lifetime Map Updates entitle you to receive up to 4 map data updates per year, when and as such updates are made available on the Garmin website, for this specific Garmin product only until this product's useful life expires or Garmin no longer receives map data from its third party supplier, whichever is shorter. The updates you receive will be updates to the same geographic map data originally included with your Garmin product when originally purchased. Garmin may terminate your Lifetime Map Updates at any time if you violate any of the terms of the End User License Agreement accompanying your nüvi product.

This is at the bottom of every unit with lifetime map updates. It's been there for as long as I can remember.

Yes, and I've seen it before many times. The question is, WHO decides the part in red? Garmin, obviously...whenever they want... My "product" still works...and works very WELL... :mad:

2.6k · February 18, 2011

¹ Free Lifetime Map Updates entitle you to receive up to 4 map data updates per year, when and as such updates are made available on the Garmin website, for this specific Garmin product only until this product's useful life expires or Garmin no longer receives map data from its third party supplier, whichever is shorter. The updates you receive will be updates to the same geographic map data originally included with your Garmin product when originally purchased. Garmin may terminate your Lifetime Map Updates at any time if you violate any of the terms of the End User License Agreement accompanying your nüvi product.

This is at the bottom of every unit with lifetime map updates. It's been there for as long as I can remember.

Yes, and I've seen it before many times. The question is, WHO decides the part in red? Garmin, obviously...whenever they want... My "product" still works...and works very WELL...

Not to sound flippant, but it doesn't say useful to WHO. For example, in the computer biz, the expected lifecycle of a PC used to be about 5 years. Many manufacturers simply stopped providing bios and other updates and support for the PC's after that 5 years simply because they reached the end of their projected lifecycle even though many folks were still actively and productively using their machines. Now I don't know, of course, but maybe that's kinda what's happening here. Not sayin' it's true or right, just supposin' what's goin' on.

February 18, 2011

Not to sound flippant, but it doesn't say useful to WHO.

Not to sound flippant, but that should be "to WHOM"...and that's EXACTLY what I said. They do NOT delineate it in their fine print. If they want to make "useful life" four or five years, they SAY so up front. :rolleyes:

Your computer analogy fails because that person did NOT sign up and pay for a SEPARATE lifetime "support plan" as I did with maps for the 2720. Comprende?

Edited February 18, 2011 by sviking

February 18, 2011

How much was the "lifetime" subscription and how many times did you update?

How much would it have cost you to update if "lifetime" updates were not available?

I quoted lifetime because obviously the unit still works but according to Garmin, it's past its "useable" lifetime aka discontinued.

February 18, 2011

How much was the "lifetime" subscription and how many times did you update?

Doesn't matter...

How much would it have cost you to update if "lifetime" updates were not available?

Doesn't matter...not germane to the argument...

I quoted lifetime because obviously the unit still works but according to Garmin, it's past its "useable" lifetime aka discontinued.

Complete bunk. This is no different than if I had a car where the manufacturer/dealership offered free oil changes, tire rotation, whatever for the life of the car... And, they tried to cut me off at 100,000 miles or something because that model year was "discontinued" or they thought it was "too old"? Oh, holy Moses...there'd be HELL to pay... :mad:

Unlike the dealership, Garmin's lucky they don't have a store front I could go to because I'd be giving it to them in person... The only physical Garmin store I've heard of was in Chicago.

Edited February 18, 2011 by sviking

1.4k · February 19, 2011

How much was the "lifetime" subscription and how many times did you update?

Doesn't matter...

How much would it have cost you to update if "lifetime" updates were not available?

Doesn't matter...not germane to the argument...

I quoted lifetime because obviously the unit still works but according to Garmin, it's past its "useable" lifetime aka discontinued.

Complete bunk. This is no different than if I had a car where the manufacturer/dealership offered free oil changes, tire rotation, whatever for the life of the car... And, they tried to cut me off at 100,000 miles or something because that model year was "discontinued" or they thought it was "too old"? Oh, holy Moses...there'd be HELL to pay...

Or a situation closer to yours, if you paid for an extended warranty and they canceled it because they decided the car was too old

5.3k · February 19, 2011

IMO Garmin set themselves up for this kind of complaint by using the ambiguous term "lifetime." Users have one thing in mind, the company has something else, and when expectations are not met disappointment is sure to result.

It seems like if they said "until this product is no longer actively marketed" or some such language that customers would know better what they are getting into. Doesn't that appear to be Garmin's actual intent? Maybe I'm wrong on that.

February 19, 2011

Or a situation closer to yours, if you paid for an extended warranty and they canceled it because they decided the car was too old

No. Extended CAR warranties usually have defined endpoints (year/mileage). And, this is NOT a warranty. It's a lifetime SUBSCRIPTION. Do I really need to go into the nuances of why these are different?

February 19, 2011

IMO Garmin set themselves up for this kind of complaint by using the ambiguous term "lifetime." Users have one thing in mind, the company has something else, and when expectations are not met disappointment is sure to result.

It seems like if they said "until this product is no longer actively marketed" or some such language that customers would know better what they are getting into. Doesn't that appear to be Garmin's actual intent? Maybe I'm wrong on that.

+1 Exactly...

1.4k · February 19, 2011

Or a situation closer to yours, if you paid for an extended warranty and they canceled it because they decided the car was too old

No. Extended CAR warranties usually have defined endpoints (year/mileage). And, this is NOT a warranty. It's a lifetime SUBSCRIPTION. Do I really need to go into the nuances of why these are different?

Well shucks, maybe you better go into the nuances seeing as how you're the only intelligent one on this forum. Your subscription has a defined endpoint also, it's LIFETIME your only problem is Garmin gets to define lifetime.

February 19, 2011

Well shucks, maybe you better go into the nuances seeing as how you're the only intelligent one on this forum.

What for you? Waste of time...quite obviously... :laughing:

February 20, 2011

Personally I feel they should not use the TERM "Lifetime" if when they decided that a unit is beyond its lifetime, IE say 5 years for a unit. They most likely already know what they plan for a Unit Life Cycle and that is what should be used for Terms of use.

2.6k · February 20, 2011

Not to sound flippant, but it doesn't say useful to WHO.

Not to sound flippant, but that should be "to WHOM"...and that's EXACTLY what I said. They do NOT delineate it in their fine print. If they want to make "useful life" four or five years, they SAY so up front.

Your computer analogy fails because that person did NOT sign up and pay for a SEPARATE lifetime "support plan" as I did with maps for the 2720. Comprende?

I never said I was an English major.

And now you're just being rude. Besides, it was not an analogy. It was an example of my point.

February 20, 2011

Personally I feel they should not use the TERM "Lifetime" if when they decided that a unit is beyond its lifetime, IE say 5 years for a unit. They most likely already know what they plan for a Unit Life Cycle and that is what should be used for Terms of use.

Thank you. Somebody gets it, unlike some others with useless analogies. :rolleyes:

1.4k · February 20, 2011

Well shucks, maybe you better go into the nuances seeing as how you're the only intelligent one on this forum.

What for you? Waste of time...quite obviously...

It's also a waste of time dealing with egotistical and arrogant people.

1.3k · February 20, 2011

You two better knock it off before a mod has to STOP THIS CAR!

On topic, I’ll be upset too when my “Lifetime Subscription” ends so I understand your pain but not completely until it happens to me.

February 20, 2011

I don't own a GPS but do work for a manufacturer of tech stuff.

Unfortnately for the OP, lifetime is purposely left undefined. At the time the unit was sold, there's no way to predict more than about 12-18 months out what additional features/software/infrastructure will be in place. They do know, however, that eventually things will change enough that there will no longer be (statistical) value in reverse-engineering updates to be compatible with older technology.

Bottom line, eventually they stop retro-fitting the updates for your unit, and that's when life ends.

Having said that, if the latest update exists and is being sold for your unit, but is somehow not available to you under your subscription, then to me you have a simple case and should fight for it. Sucks that you (and others) would have to fight for it - in fact, it would seem more costly for Garmin to manually process even just a few fighters than to just issue the update.

I came to this forum seeking advice on a GPS. These kinds of things matter to me; and OP if it helps you any, I don't see myself buying a Garmin if this will be an issue.

February 20, 2011

It's also a waste of time dealing with egotistical and arrogant people.

Ok, fair enough. I'll admit to being egotistical and arrogant...

So, I guess that means you won't be posting/wasting time in my thread anymore, huh?

February 20, 2011

That does not make sense to me as I have 6 units with lifetime updates including 2 2720's and got 2011.40 loaded on all of them. I got all 2011.40 updates on Wednesday the 16th when they first came out.

Jerry

PS I am in Ohio.

This doesnt make sense at all. Moorhead got the updates for his 2720's and not the OP?

What is the difference here for Garmin to refuse providing the update to the OP as it looks like the hardware is the same?

On a side note I cant understand why anyone would side with Garmin on this one!

These are the people that allow companies to continue to screw consumers with impunity.

A lifetime subscription to updates as long the owner has the unit means exactly that forever under certain conditions that the OP still meets.

If Garmin stops doing that they are in breach of contract with the subscriber and subject to penalties. Imagine if it was the other way around, Im pretty sure Garmin would not be so nice.

To the OP, dont despair, if Garmin refuses to give you the updates that *YOU* paid for there are other methods out there. One way or the other its Garmin that loses.

Garmin treating owners of older units with lifetime updates unfairly?

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