Didn't find it or needs archived

[mresoteric]

My wife and I just started caching a few weeks ago. We've really enjoyed some of the hikes and great scenery.

 

We were out this weekend looking for caches and couldn't find one. Instead, we found a note stating that the cache had been muggled because the land was for hunting and fishing only.

 

I was going to post a needs archived but wasn't sure if that was appropriate since we have only just started. Would it be better to post that we didn't find it and tell the owner about the note?

[+StarBrand]

My wife and I just started caching a few weeks ago. We've really enjoyed some of the hikes and great scenery.

 

We were out this weekend looking for caches and couldn't find one. Instead, we found a note stating that the cache had been muggled because the land was for hunting and fishing only.

 

I was going to post a needs archived but wasn't sure if that was appropriate since we have only just started. Would it be better to post that we didn't find it and tell the owner about the note?

 

I'd go with the DNF and notify the owner. Sounds like the land manager took it and does not want caches there. However, maybe permission issues just need ironed out.

 

If the owner does not take action of some kind in a few weeks - log an NA.

[+Walts Hunting]

My wife and I just started caching a few weeks ago. We've really enjoyed some of the hikes and great scenery.

 

We were out this weekend looking for caches and couldn't find one. Instead, we found a note stating that the cache had been muggled because the land was for hunting and fishing only.

 

I was going to post a needs archived but wasn't sure if that was appropriate since we have only just started. Would it be better to post that we didn't find it and tell the owner about the note?

 

I'd go with the DNF and notify the owner. Sounds like the land manager took it and does not want caches there. However, maybe permission issues just need ironed out.

 

If the owner does not take action of some kind in a few weeks - log an NA.

 

Why do you suggest notifying the owner and writing a DNF log. Why not put everything in the DNF since the CO gets that. An extra notification seems like redundancy.

[+StarBrand]

My wife and I just started caching a few weeks ago. We've really enjoyed some of the hikes and great scenery.

 

We were out this weekend looking for caches and couldn't find one. Instead, we found a note stating that the cache had been muggled because the land was for hunting and fishing only.

 

I was going to post a needs archived but wasn't sure if that was appropriate since we have only just started. Would it be better to post that we didn't find it and tell the owner about the note?

 

I'd go with the DNF and notify the owner. Sounds like the land manager took it and does not want caches there. However, maybe permission issues just need ironed out.

 

If the owner does not take action of some kind in a few weeks - log an NA.

 

Why do you suggest notifying the owner and writing a DNF log. Why not put everything in the DNF since the CO gets that. An extra notification seems like redundancy.

OK - didn't mean for it be separate - I meant "... go with the DNF and it notifies the owner" - is that clear as mud now??

[+foxual]

Needs Maintenance - my favorite of all the logs.

[+Ecylram]

I'll vote for Needs Maintenance as well.

[+StarBrand]

I'll vote for Needs Maintenance as well.

What's to be maintained?? The cache is gone and somebody clearly doesn't want one there.

 

To me NM is saying that the physical cache somehow needs to be maintained - not replaced.

 

If your car gets stolen - do you call the shop and schedule maintenance on it??

Edited February 14, 2011 by StarBrand

[+Michaelcycle]

My wife and I just started caching a few weeks ago. We've really enjoyed some of the hikes and great scenery.

 

We were out this weekend looking for caches and couldn't find one. Instead, we found a note stating that the cache had been muggled because the land was for hunting and fishing only.

 

I was going to post a needs archived but wasn't sure if that was appropriate since we have only just started. Would it be better to post that we didn't find it and tell the owner about the note?

 

I suggest you recheck the cache page. The CO may already be aware of the situation

If not, leave the NM log with a brief note indicating what you found.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Michaelcycle

[knowschad]

Sounds like the land manager took it and does not want caches there.

Nope, not in this case, I'm afraid. I knew before even checking that the cacher was from New Jersey. Seems to be a "Forest Defender" type removing caches from the New Jersey WMA's and leaving pretty printed notes that state his mistaken believe that the WMAs are paid for totally by hunting and fishing licenses. The subject came up only this morning in the Off-Topics area.

[mresoteric]

I think I like the needs maintenance better.

 

I don't think it was removed by the land manager though. This is on the Nacote Creek Preservation Area. As far as I know the area is supposed to be available the general public and not just hunters. We've hiked the area before we discovered geocaching. This seems to be someone who thinks the area should only be used by those who buy licenses.

[+Lil Devil]

If the land owner doesn't want the cache there then the cache needs to be archived. I'd log a Needs Archived. Whether the CO archives it or a reviewer doesn't matter.

[knowschad]

If the land owner doesn't want the cache there then the cache needs to be archived. I'd log a Needs Archived. Whether the CO archives it or a reviewer doesn't matter.

 

This is not the land owner doing this. It is an individual that calls themselves "The Muggler" (sic).

[mresoteric]

I left needs maintenance logs on the 2 caches we found the notes on. What was really weird is that he stated that the land was WMA land but it isn't. There is WMA land close by that we have not cached yet. I think the person leaving the notes is mistaken.

 

If it is WMA land, does that mean that geocaching is not allowed? We've hiked a lot of the area in the past and have never noticed anything restricting the area to hunting and fishing.

[GOF and Bacall]

I left needs maintenance logs on the 2 caches we found the notes on. What was really weird is that he stated that the land was WMA land but it isn't. There is WMA land close by that we have not cached yet. I think the person leaving the notes is mistaken.

 

If it is WMA land, does that mean that geocaching is not allowed? We've hiked a lot of the area in the past and have never noticed anything restricting the area to hunting and fishing.

 

No. It means that there is a muggle stealing caches.

[Clan Riffster]

To me NM is saying that the physical cache somehow needs to be maintained - not replaced.

I think, generally speaking, replacing a missing cache would count as owner maintenance.

[+RobDJr]

To me NM is saying that the physical cache somehow needs to be maintained - not replaced.

I think, generally speaking, replacing a missing cache would count as owner maintenance.

 

I'd agree with Clan Riffster on this -- a NM post says that some sort of owner action is required.

 

In this case, I'd post a DNF, and if there is nothing on cache page or recent logs to show that the owner is aware of any problem, also post an NM log.

[GOF and Bacall]

To me NM is saying that the physical cache somehow needs to be maintained - not replaced.

I think, generally speaking, replacing a missing cache would count as owner maintenance.

 

I'd agree with Clan Riffster on this -- a NM post says that some sort of owner action is required.

 

In this case, I'd post a DNF, and if there is nothing on cache page or recent logs to show that the owner is aware of any problem, also post an NM log.

 

If the cache issues were already documented with a needs maintenance log I'd log a DNF. If there wasn't already a needs maintenance detailing the issues I'd log one. I wouldn't do both. Not that it matters but the redundancy isn't really needed.

[mresoteric]

I've already posted the needs maintenance logs which were suggested earlier. Do I really need to post didn't find it logs too? It would seem that the needs maintenance log makes it clear that I didn't find it.

 

The caches in question are http://coord.info/GC1C3TQ and http://coord.info/GC1C3TJ. I didn't see any mention of the caches being missing although it has been a long time since either one has been found. This was one reason we chose to look for them.

[+Michaelcycle]

I've already posted the needs maintenance logs which were suggested earlier. Do I really need to post didn't find it logs too? It would seem that the needs maintenance log makes it clear that I didn't find it.

 

The caches in question are http://coord.info/GC1C3TQ and http://coord.info/GC1C3TJ. I didn't see any mention of the caches being missing although it has been a long time since either one has been found. This was one reason we chose to look for them.

 

The CO is aware of your NMs and, unfortunately, I believe is going to archive them to avoid confrontation

[GOF and Bacall]

You did the right thing. Posting a DNF is user choice at this point.

[knowschad]

If it is WMA land, does that mean that geocaching is not allowed? We've hiked a lot of the area in the past and have never noticed anything restricting the area to hunting and fishing.

No, it does not mean that geocaching is restricted in WMA's. It is also not true the NJ WMAs are paid for entirely by sportsman licenses as this person believes. Operational funding is, but that is not the entire cost. I don't know what their geocaching policy is, if any, but here is what I do know:

 

(in part...)

Initially, the purchase of lands for the Wildlife Management Area System was funded entirely from the sale of hunting and fishing licenses. In 1961, the first of several Green Acres bond issues was approved, enabling the general public to participate in the development of the system. Approximately half of the present system was purchased through the Green Acres bond issues. Operational funding is provided entirely by hunters and anglers. Capital projects such as boat ramps, dams and parking lots are usually funded through combinations of Federal Aid (funds from excise taxes on sporting equipment), Green Acres and General Fund Capital appropriations. Through the years, particularly with the infusion of Green Acres monies since 1961, the mission of the Wildlife Management Area System gradually broadened from "Public Shooting and Fishing Grounds" to areas where fish and wildlife habitat is protected and enhanced, while providing a variety of compatible recreational and educational opportunities.

 

The number of people in search of wildlife-oriented recreational opportunities has grown significantly in the last 35 years as shown by the National Survey of Fishing, Hunting and Wildlife-Associated Recreation, conducted every five years by the US Fish and Wildlife Service. In New Jersey, the 2001 National Survey found that 135,000 people hunted, 806,000 people fished, and more than 2,328,000 people participated in other wildlife-oriented recreational activities (bird feeding, wildlife observation, photography, etc.). The survey includes only people 16 years of age and older.

 

[+Don_J]

To me NM is saying that the physical cache somehow needs to be maintained - not replaced.

I think, generally speaking, replacing a missing cache would count as owner maintenance.

 

I'd agree with Clan Riffster on this -- a NM post says that some sort of owner action is required.

 

In this case, I'd post a DNF, and if there is nothing on cache page or recent logs to show that the owner is aware of any problem, also post an NM log.

 

If the cache issues were already documented with a needs maintenance log I'd log a DNF. If there wasn't already a needs maintenance detailing the issues I'd log one. I wouldn't do both. Not that it matters but the redundancy isn't really needed.

 

I would absolutely do both. If I don't find a cache, I log a DNF. If I know that it needs maintenance, then I log a NM. It may be redundant for the CO, but it lets me keep track of my DNFs and the NM not only notifies the CO, but also other seekers. It also allows one to exclude it from PQs.

[+StarBrand]

I'll vote for Needs Maintenance as well.

What's to be maintained?? The cache is gone and somebody clearly doesn't want one there.

 

To me NM is saying that the physical cache somehow needs to be maintained - not replaced.

 

If your car gets stolen - do you call the shop and schedule maintenance on it??

Ok - somaybe it is just me but I still think you gotta find something in order to determine that it needs maintained.

[+Don_J]

I'll vote for Needs Maintenance as well.

What's to be maintained?? The cache is gone and somebody clearly doesn't want one there.

 

To me NM is saying that the physical cache somehow needs to be maintained - not replaced.

 

If your car gets stolen - do you call the shop and schedule maintenance on it??

Ok - somaybe it is just me but I still think you gotta find something in order to determine that it needs maintained.

 

They did find something. They found the note the thief left in place of the cache.

 

It's all situational. If the hint is "under bench", there is only one bench at GZ and all it has is a strip of Velcro under it. I can be fairly certain that it needs maintenance.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Don_J

[GOF and Bacall]

I'll vote for Needs Maintenance as well.

What's to be maintained?? The cache is gone and somebody clearly doesn't want one there.

 

To me NM is saying that the physical cache somehow needs to be maintained - not replaced.

 

If your car gets stolen - do you call the shop and schedule maintenance on it??

Ok - somaybe it is just me but I still think you gotta find something in order to determine that it needs maintained.

 

In this case the OP did find something. A note saying the cache had been removed.

Edited February 15, 2011 by GOF and Bacall

[Pup Patrol]

I've already posted the needs maintenance logs which were suggested earlier. Do I really need to post didn't find it logs too? It would seem that the needs maintenance log makes it clear that I didn't find it.

 

The caches in question are http://coord.info/GC1C3TQ and http://coord.info/GC1C3TJ. I didn't see any mention of the caches being missing although it has been a long time since either one has been found. This was one reason we chose to look for them.

 

Another scenario: lots of folks have gone looking for the cache, didn't find it, but didn't post "DNF". Cache has been missing for some time, but without "DNF's" being posted, no one knows when it went missing.

[+ventura_kids]

I'd log a find and then everyone will tell you what to do.

 

I'd take a cache out of the backpack and replace the cache, log a find, and don't say anything about the "defender". After all....he's in it for the attention.

[+M 5]

I'd log a find and then everyone will tell you what to do.

 

I'd take a cache out of the backpack and replace the cache, log a find, and don't say anything about the "defender". After all....he's in it for the attention.

 

Of course you would, and you would have no idea if it was even close to the original hide, but hey, thats the powertrail cacher mentality coming out. Anything for a find. Now if you contacted the owner before hand and they gave you the specifics on the hide and want you to replace it, then go for it. I still wouldn't count it as a find though, but it was a nice gesture for future cachers.

[mresoteric]

I'd log a find and then everyone will tell you what to do.

 

I'd take a cache out of the backpack and replace the cache, log a find, and don't say anything about the "defender". After all....he's in it for the attention.

Why would you log a find if the cache has been muggled?

 

BTW, I'm glad I didn't post a Needs Archival. That doesn't appear to go over very well.

[+ventura_kids]

OK, so sarcasm doesn't go over too well in the forums.

 

I would first check to see what has already been logged.

If no one has logged a note, then I would probably log a DNF or a note. If someone has already brought the situation up in their logs, then I'd probably log nothing. I prefer to keep the logs short and simple (for those who use them).

Either way,... I would email the owner (using the cache page link at the top) and let them know what I found.

[+DanOCan]

Interesting to read the cache pages...

 

Cache gets disabled on Feb. 15 --makes sense since the cache is missing.

 

Gets re-enabled on March 2 with this comment:

 

If you make it back to GZ sign the Muggler's sign and log it as a find. This ******* doesn't have the authority to proclaim sole rights to WMA's.

 

Now, I can interpet this two ways:

 

1) The cache owner doesn't want to draw the attention of The Muggler by letting him know that he actually replaced the container.

 

or

 

2) The CO is now just using The Mugglers note as the cache.

[+Afterburned]

If you make it back to GZ sign the Muggler's sign and log it as a find. This ******* doesn't have the authority to proclaim sole rights to WMA's.

 

BRILLIANT!

LMAO here!

[+nittanycopa]

If you make it back to GZ sign the Muggler's sign and log it as a find. This ******* doesn't have the authority to proclaim sole rights to WMA's.

 

BRILLIANT!

LMAO here!

 

I sort of want to take a drive to Jersey to find this

 

That's awesome.

[+Redfist]

nvm - wrong thread.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Redfist

[+kunarion]

re-enabled on March 2 with this comment:

 

If you make it back to GZ sign the Muggler's sign and log it as a find. This ******* doesn't have the authority to proclaim sole rights to WMA's.

 

So you could go find it and make a log about how much fun you had at the muggled cache:

 

“Spent a few hours not hunting nor fishing, since we deliberately don't pay for the licenses. We rode our bicycles for a while, did some crochet, Frisbee, volleyball, sodoku, took pictures, flew kites, then found the “new cache sheet” at GZ, and signed it. Now our Geocaching friends plan to visit this place. Thanks for the muggle sign! TFTMS!”

 

Then hide even more caches, each one at an additional hiking distance. And that muggle sign probably should be reprinted on weatherproof material, for durability. (I'd also set up a hunt cam, so people could sign a PHOTO of "The Muggle", but that's just how I am).

Edited March 17, 2011 by kunarion