Copyright on Forum posts

2.1k · February 10, 2011

The topic description says it all: When I make a post on this forum, who owns the copyright? Me? Groundspeak?

4.2k · February 10, 2011

There is no copyright. At all. What-so-ever. There's nothing to be owned by you or Groundspeak.

2.1k · February 10, 2011

There is no copyright. At all. What-so-ever. There's nothing to be owned by you or Groundspeak.

Not true. Anything that I write, I can be presumed to own the copyright on. My question is, is there something in the TOS on this site that transfers that copyright to Groundspeak, or is it retained by me?

From the US Copyright Office FAQ:

What is copyright?

Copyright is a form of protection grounded in the U.S. Constitution and granted by law for original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Copyright covers both published and unpublished works.

What I write here is an original work of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. When I hit "post," it becomes a published work.

7k · February 10, 2011

Whoever writes the post owns the copyright.

1.5k · February 10, 2011

From the terms of use:

The Site and all content available on the Site are protected by applicable intellectual property laws, and are for personal and noncommercial use. All rights not expressly granted in this Agreement are reserved by Groundspeak or by the respective owners of the intellectual property rights. All materials available on or through the Site, other than Third Party Submissions (collectively, the "Site Materials") are the property of Groundspeak or of its licensors and are protected by copyright, trademark, and other intellectual property laws. Groundspeak reserves the right to impose additional terms and conditions upon Your use and viewing of particular Site Materials, and any such terms and conditions may be posted on the Site in connection with those Site Materials. You may not reproduce or retransmit the Site Materials, in whole or in part, in any manner, without the prior written consent of the owner of such materials, except as follows: You may make a single copy of the Site Materials solely for Your personal, noncommercial use, but such copying must be consistent with any applicable additional terms and conditions and You must preserve any copyright, trademark, or other notices contained in or associated with such Site Materials. You may not distribute such copies to others, whether or not in electronic form and whether or not for a charge or other consideration, without prior written consent of the owner of such materials. If you have any questions, contact us at contact@Groundspeak.com.

3.8k · February 10, 2011

"Not true. Anything that I write, I can be presumed to own the copyright on. My question is, is there something in the TOS on this site that transfers that copyright to Groundspeak, or is it retained by me?"

:laughing:

4.2k · February 10, 2011

There is no copyright. At all. What-so-ever. There's nothing to be owned by you or Groundspeak.

Not true. Anything that I write, I can be presumed to own the copyright on. My question is, is there something in the TOS on this site that transfers that copyright to Groundspeak, or is it retained by me?

From the US Copyright Office FAQ:

What is copyright?

Copyright is a form of protection grounded in the U.S. Constitution and granted by law for original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Copyright covers both published and unpublished works.

What I write here is an original work of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. When I hit "post," it becomes a published work.

No seriously, the kind that holds up in court. It doesn't exist in a forum. Don't make me google for case examples cause I really very busy reading the thread on the ET power trail.

It's all public domain on a forum or similar electronic medium when you hit "post".

2.1k · February 10, 2011

Thank you all for the helpful answers.

The reason I'm asking is that I just now, for the first time, took a look at the forum on a certain other website which shall remain nameless. It appears that they not only import geocache listings from this site (presumably with the permission of the owners), they also are cutting and pasting entire forum posts from this site for discussion over there.

I was pretty sure that such use violated the TOS here.

7k · February 10, 2011

"Not true. Anything that I write, I can be presumed to own the copyright on. My question is, is there something in the TOS on this site that transfers that copyright to Groundspeak, or is it retained by me?"

Copyright © 2011 by bflentje

I know you're joking, but I still want to point out that this is not how it works. Copyright is a "natural" law, there's no need to declare anything as being copyrighted or to protect it. Whoever creates something new automatically owns the copyright.

Edited February 10, 2011 by dfx

22k · February 10, 2011

Apparently you haven't read a recent court ruling about Twitter. That is - when you post in public, accessible by the public, without a specific limitation of access you are, in short, talking to the world bub.

Try to only speak when your words are first under copyright. :rolleyes:

4.2k · February 10, 2011

"Not true. Anything that I write, I can be presumed to own the copyright on. My question is, is there something in the TOS on this site that transfers that copyright to Groundspeak, or is it retained by me?"

Copyright © 2011 by bflentje

Aw crud. I just reprinted your work without permission. Plz don't suez me kthxbye.

4.2k · February 10, 2011

Thank you all for the helpful answers.

The reason I'm asking is that I just now, for the first time, took a look at the forum on a certain other website which shall remain nameless. It appears that they not only import geocache listings from this site (presumably with the permission of the owners), they also are cutting and pasting entire forum posts from this site for discussion over there.

I was pretty sure that such use violated the TOS here.

Yeah, you can do that. I could take everything you just posted in paste it into my personal blog, Facebook, etc.

3.1k · February 10, 2011

When I make a post on this forum, who owns the copyright? Me? Groundspeak?

You retain the copyright but license Groundspeak to use it [your post] extensively.

From their "terms of use" agreement:

6. License to Use Submissions

All comments, articles, tutorials, screenshots, pictures, graphics, tools, downloads, and all other materials submitted to Groundspeak in connection with the Site or available through the Site (collectively, "Submissions") remain the property and copyright of the original author. If You submit Submissions to Groundspeak, You must adhere to any applicable submission guidelines that may be posted from time to time on the Site. By submitting any Submission to Groundspeak, You grant Groundspeak a worldwide, non-exclusive, transferable, perpetual, irrevocable, fully-paid royalty-free license and right to use, reproduce, distribute, import, broadcast, transmit, modify and create derivative works of, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease or lend copies of, publicly display and publicly perform that Submission for any purpose and without restriction or obligation to You.

The foregoing license rights are intended to provide to Groundspeak all rights under existing and future laws, including without limitation all rights under copyright and any other rights personal to You to publish the Submission on the Site, use the Submission in publicity and promotional materials for the Site and to create new Sites or derivative works (including without limitation by combining the Submission with other content) for public display or performance via any and all media or technology now known or later developed. The foregoing rights may be licensed and sublicensed through unlimited tiers of third parties.

Edited February 10, 2011 by CanadianRockies

22k · February 10, 2011

Apparently you haven't read a recent court ruling about Twitter. That is - when you post in public, accessible by the public, without a specific limitation of access you are, in short, talking to the world bub.

Try to only speak when your words are first under copyright.

Oh and before we get into it, The Off-topic forum is the only membership accessible non-public part of this site.

See you in the funny papers. :anibad:

20.7k · February 10, 2011

There is no copyright. At all. What-so-ever. There's nothing to be owned by you or Groundspeak.

1.8k · February 10, 2011

Apparently you haven't read a recent court ruling about Twitter. That is - when you post in public, accessible by the public, without a specific limitation of access you are, in short, talking to the world bub.

Try to only speak when your words are first under copyright.

This article suggests that courts believe "Twitter does not mean copyright free"... but maybe there are more recent rulings I'm not aware of.

http://techland.time.com/2010/12/30/twitter-does-not-mean-copyright-free-court-rules/

1.5k · February 10, 2011

Thank you all for the helpful answers.

The reason I'm asking is that I just now, for the first time, took a look at the forum on a certain other website which shall remain nameless. It appears that they not only import geocache listings from this site (presumably with the permission of the owners), they also are cutting and pasting entire forum posts from this site for discussion over there.

I was pretty sure that such use violated the TOS here.

It's how they roll.

I don't believe there are any provable damages so it's probably moot as to whether it is a copyright issue. Then there is the murky area of "fair use" which provides some protection.

I suppose Groundspeak could lock accounts that are copying forum messages, but I doubt it would be to Groundspeak's benefit to do so. Probably best to let sleeping dogs lie.

18.9k · February 10, 2011

Apparently you haven't read a recent court ruling about Twitter. That is - when you post in public, accessible by the public, without a specific limitation of access you are, in short, talking to the world bub.

Try to only speak when your words are first under copyright.

I think there is still an implied copyright. It just carries very little "rights" with it due to the public domain nature of forums.

Give credit where credit is due and do not plagerize and you do not generally run afowl of any copyright when quoting something.

2.1k · February 10, 2011

Thank you all for the helpful answers.

The reason I'm asking is that I just now, for the first time, took a look at the forum on a certain other website which shall remain nameless. It appears that they not only import geocache listings from this site (presumably with the permission of the owners), they also are cutting and pasting entire forum posts from this site for discussion over there.

I was pretty sure that such use violated the TOS here.

Yeah, you can do that. I could take everything you just posted in paste it into my personal blog, Facebook, etc.

You can do that, but you are violating this sites Terms of Use when you do.

See the bit the Eclyram quoted from the TOS above.

7k · February 10, 2011

However, in the case of forum posts, it should be noted that quotations often qualify as "fair use" and so there's no copyright claims against them, provided the sources are sufficiently specified.

7k · February 10, 2011

I think there is still an implied copyright. It just carries very little "rights" with it due to the public domain nature of forums.

Something being publicly viewable doesn't automatically put it in public domain. Quite the contrary.

2.1k · February 10, 2011

There is no copyright. At all. What-so-ever. There's nothing to be owned by you or Groundspeak.

Please see:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html

When is my work protected?

Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

My forum posts are my work. There is a copyright. I may not be willing to spend the attorney costs and filing fees to defend my copyright in court, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one.

9.4k · February 10, 2011

I suppose Groundspeak could lock accounts that are copying forum messages, but I doubt it would be to Groundspeak's benefit to do so. Probably best to let sleeping dogs lie.

A couple of problems with that: You don't have to be logged in to read the forums. Even if they use the same account name "over there" there's no way to verify if indeed it is the same person.

1.8k · February 10, 2011

However, in the case of forum posts, it should be noted that quotations often qualify as "fair use" and so there's no copyright claims against them, provided the sources are sufficiently specified.

Yes. As long as the information is sourced, and helped by no obvious and direct financial gain (i.e., selling photos to a wire service that someone else posted into a forum), you're not going to have many problems quoting posts here and there to make a point.

2.1k · February 10, 2011

However, in the case of forum posts, it should be noted that quotations often qualify as "fair use" and so there's no copyright claims against them, provided the sources are sufficiently specified.

Yes. As long as the information is sourced, and helped by no obvious and direct financial gain (i.e., selling photos to a wire service that someone else posted into a forum), you're not going to have many problems quoting posts here and there to make a point.

Quoting posts "here and there to make a point" is one thing... I was kind of surprised by how many posts "there" were lifted verbatim from "here." I think maybe Groundspeak could have a problem if a substantial part of this forum became a substantial part of that forum through click'n'paste.

7k · February 10, 2011

Quoting posts "here and there to make a point" is one thing... I was kind of surprised by how many posts "there" were lifted verbatim from "here." I think maybe Groundspeak could have a problem if a substantial part of this forum became a substantial part of that forum through click'n'paste.

Groundspeak doesn't own the copyright though. They only have a non-exclusive license to use the content and so it's none of their business if any posters' copyright gets violated.

19k · February 10, 2011

What if I went to "that" forum and copied one of the copied posts back over here? I think we just might have a divide-by-zero situation.

1.8k · February 10, 2011

However, in the case of forum posts, it should be noted that quotations often qualify as "fair use" and so there's no copyright claims against them, provided the sources are sufficiently specified.

Yes. As long as the information is sourced, and helped by no obvious and direct financial gain (i.e., selling photos to a wire service that someone else posted into a forum), you're not going to have many problems quoting posts here and there to make a point.

Quoting posts "here and there to make a point" is one thing... I was kind of surprised by how many posts "there" were lifted verbatim from "here." I think maybe Groundspeak could have a problem if a substantial part of this forum became a substantial part of that forum through click'n'paste.

How many is it? I noticed two, I could imagine there being a few more. Is it more widespread than that?

2.1k · February 10, 2011

However, in the case of forum posts, it should be noted that quotations often qualify as "fair use" and so there's no copyright claims against them, provided the sources are sufficiently specified.

Yes. As long as the information is sourced, and helped by no obvious and direct financial gain (i.e., selling photos to a wire service that someone else posted into a forum), you're not going to have many problems quoting posts here and there to make a point.

Quoting posts "here and there to make a point" is one thing... I was kind of surprised by how many posts "there" were lifted verbatim from "here." I think maybe Groundspeak could have a problem if a substantial part of this forum became a substantial part of that forum through click'n'paste.

How many is it? I noticed two, I could imagine there being a few more. Is it more widespread than that?

I saw at least six in my first five minutes of browsing over there. Then I came over here to ask about copyright, and haven't been back, but there are a lot.

20.7k · February 10, 2011

There is no copyright. At all. What-so-ever. There's nothing to be owned by you or Groundspeak.

Please see:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html

When is my work protected?

Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

My forum posts are my work. There is a copyright. I may not be willing to spend the attorney costs and filing fees to defend my copyright in court, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one.

Ummm, my post was a joke that you didn't get. CM probably did.

1.8k · February 10, 2011

I saw at least six in my first five minutes of browsing over there. Then I came over here to ask about copyright, and haven't been back, but there are a lot.

Something on the order of a half-dozen-ish doesn't get me too upset. I like the ability to copy and paste relevant info from other message boards into this one when relevant, so I'd hesitate to get too assertive in the other direction.

20.7k · February 10, 2011

I suppose Groundspeak could lock accounts that are copying forum messages, but I doubt it would be to Groundspeak's benefit to do so. Probably best to let sleeping dogs lie.

A couple of problems with that: You don't have to be logged in to read the forums. Even if they use the same account name "over there" there's no way to verify if indeed it is the same person.

Unless they own a cross-listed geocache.

Edited February 10, 2011 by sbell111

4.2k · February 10, 2011

There is no copyright. At all. What-so-ever. There's nothing to be owned by you or Groundspeak.

Please see:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html

When is my work protected?

Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

My forum posts are my work. There is a copyright. I may not be willing to spend the attorney costs and filing fees to defend my copyright in court, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one.

This is kind of a "tree falls in the forest" kind of thing. If a post is copied on the internet and nobody makes any money, who the heck cares?

Is it even your post? If it is then get out your Big Book of Legal Jargon and write them a cease and desist and be done with it. Good luck with that.

7k · February 10, 2011

I saw at least six in my first five minutes of browsing over there. Then I came over here to ask about copyright, and haven't been back, but there are a lot.

Something on the order of a half-dozen-ish doesn't get me too upset. I like the ability to copy and paste relevant info from other message boards into this one when relevant, so I'd hesitate to get too assertive in the other direction.

+1, but I do agree with the OP that links to the original posts should've been provided.

19k · February 10, 2011

Ummm, my post was a joke that you didn't get. CM probably did.

The Cooks Source Magazine blog gets it.

4.2k · February 10, 2011

However, in the case of forum posts, it should be noted that quotations often qualify as "fair use" and so there's no copyright claims against them, provided the sources are sufficiently specified.

I've removed the source from the above quote. Bring on your crack team of laywer ninjas and tell them to pack a lunch.

4.2k · February 10, 2011

Ummm, my post was a joke that you didn't get. CM probably did.

The Cooks Source Magazine blog gets it.

I didn't get it either, but for different reasons.

1.8k · February 10, 2011

The Cooks Source Magazine blog gets it.

But honestly knowschad...

7k · February 10, 2011

I've removed the source from the above quote. Bring on your crack team of laywer ninjas and tell them to pack a lunch.

You're epicly missing the point. "Nobody cares" is not an excuse for wrongdoing.

9.4k · February 10, 2011

What if I went to "that" forum and copied one of the copied posts back over here? I think we just might have a divide-by-zero situation.

9.4k · February 10, 2011

I suppose Groundspeak could lock accounts that are copying forum messages, but I doubt it would be to Groundspeak's benefit to do so. Probably best to let sleeping dogs lie.

A couple of problems with that: You don't have to be logged in to read the forums. Even if they use the same account name "over there" there's no way to verify if indeed it is the same person.

Unless they own a cross-listed geocache.

What if they copied the entire cache description from someone else's cache and posted it over there?

4.2k · February 10, 2011

I've removed the source from the above quote. Bring on your crack team of laywer ninjas and tell them to pack a lunch.

You're epicly missing the point. "Nobody cares" is not an excuse for wrongdoing.

Well call in the Justice League. Are we talking actual "I can sue you for damages" or are we talking "what evil lurks in the heart of men" wrong?

Do the words "victimless crime" ring a bell?

4.2k · February 10, 2011

I suppose Groundspeak could lock accounts that are copying forum messages, but I doubt it would be to Groundspeak's benefit to do so. Probably best to let sleeping dogs lie.

A couple of problems with that: You don't have to be logged in to read the forums. Even if they use the same account name "over there" there's no way to verify if indeed it is the same person.

Unless they own a cross-listed geocache.

What if they copied the entire cache description from someone else's cache and posted it over there?

Which has already happened at least once...

20.7k · February 10, 2011

Ummm, my post was a joke that you didn't get. CM probably did.

The Cooks Source Magazine blog gets it.

He should be happy that I used his words.

20.7k · February 10, 2011

Ummm, my post was a joke that you didn't get. CM probably did.

The Cooks Source Magazine blog gets it.

I didn't get it either, but for different reasons.

a.) Poor short term memory

or

b.) You've blocked my posts.

:yikes:

Edited February 10, 2011 by sbell111

1.7k · February 10, 2011

Most of their listed caches were taken from GC - so it makes a twisted kind of sense that they're starting to take forum posts over as well. Not saying it's right, but I'm not surprised either. The site's just a GC knockoff without forum moderators or real reviewers, aside from the "peer" variety.

7k · February 10, 2011

Do the words "victimless crime" ring a bell?

I think that's what I'm gonna tell the police officer the next time he stops me for speeding in the middle of the night.

7k · February 10, 2011

Most of their listed caches were taken from GC

The listings were crossposted by their respective owners, who have every right to do so.

20.7k · February 10, 2011

I've removed the source from the above quote. Bring on your crack team of laywer ninjas and tell them to pack a lunch.

You're epicly missing the point. "Nobody cares" is not an excuse for wrongdoing.

Well call in the Justice League. Are we talking actual "I can sue you for damages" or are we talking "what evil lurks in the heart of men" wrong?

Do the words "victimless crime" ring a bell?

Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

1.7k · February 10, 2011

Most of their listed caches were taken from GC

The listings were crossposted by their respective owners, who have every right to do so.

Agreed, I didn't specify who was taking them. Does the same apply to the forum posts? I haven't checked.

Copyright on Forum posts

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