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Dummy containers


Kyle891
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So a few weeks ago a cache was published and as it turns out it made clever use of a dummy container. Now I see the dummy has been removed so I contacted the cache owner to ask why. Apparently a few people failed to see the sense of humour behind the idea of putting this little spin on what is now an average traditional cache.

 

The hint was,"It's NOT under the rock." At GZ there was a suspicious looking rock so naturally you turn it over and sure enough there's a container. "That was easy..." Open it up to find a note saying something along the lines of,"Told you it's NOT under the rock... but you're close." A few meters away is where the true cache is hidden.

 

So now after a couple of silly comments in the logs the cache owner has removed the dummy in order to try keep everyone happy.

 

To me, I liked the idea and it put a new spin on things but at the same time it got me thinking. Are there any rules on "Dummy" containers and what are other people's opinions on them???

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I would have assumed [before looking] that it was double blind stuff and that it had to be under the fake rock :unsure: ... then would have felt like banging my head on the rock :mad:

 

I'm new at this so dont have any opinions based on tradition

I'd rather find a dummy container than a wet soggy useless unattended 'normal' cache.

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Are there any rules on "Dummy" containers and what are other people's opinions on them???

 

any rules

By rules in the Guidelines, I'd say no. At least not if those containers are effectively at the same coords.

Where a puzzle cache might have multiple solutions, and there are "not here" containers at some of them, those become part of the cache, and need to be reviewed for location.

 

other people's opinions

It depends. I'll start by saying that I adopted a dummy container cache, and recently archived it. When I archived it, there were 4 ammo cans on the ground, and the real cache suspended over head. I archived it because, in spite of notes in each can explaining that the ammo can was not the cache - people would find a can, and log a find. They'd remove the note, add a log, someone even swagged up a can. These cans were all burnt or rusted to the point that I couldn't use them for a cache. Anyway, I gave up.

I think that many owners will.

Another common variant on dummy containers is the large container filled with small containers (usually film cans, because they're free) and only one of them has the log. People simply add logs to a film can. Or leave them opened, taking lids, or cans (I consider this design really really tedious myself, but wouldn't sabotage it, I'd just open the big container and close it again, logging a DNF).

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Thats a shame that the cache has been removed... :mad: Some of our more memorable cache finds have been these "dummy" type of containers,or a similar theme. It is just the usual case of can't please everyone I guess. Always great to see someones level of creativity displayed,cool! and as for keeping everyone happy, bugger that! Its not possible..The disgruntled could always leave a PM for the CO of the offensive cache or start a forum of their own and attract similar like minded cachers. :blink:

So a few weeks ago a cache was published and as it turns out it made clever use of a dummy container. Now I see the dummy has been removed so I contacted the cache owner to ask why. Apparently a few people failed to see the sense of humour behind the idea of putting this little spin on what is now an average traditional cache.

 

The hint was,"It's NOT under the rock." At GZ there was a suspicious looking rock so naturally you turn it over and sure enough there's a container. "That was easy..." Open it up to find a note saying something along the lines of,"Told you it's NOT under the rock... but you're close." A few meters away is where the true cache is hidden.

 

So now after a couple of silly comments in the logs the cache owner has removed the dummy in order to try keep everyone happy.

 

To me, I liked the idea and it put a new spin on things but at the same time it got me thinking. Are there any rules on "Dummy" containers and what are other people's opinions on them???

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I personally think dummy containers add something different and break the sometimes monotony of finding normal trads. I dont think a cache should be removed just due to people not liking the idea. Everyone like different things and if your sense of humour doesnt match someone elses you shouldnt knock it! Just go find another cache! I would find not leaving a cache how you found it (leaving containers open, writing extra logs) to be sabotage of my cache. IMHO!

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So a few weeks ago a cache was published and as it turns out it made clever use of a dummy container. Now I see the dummy has been removed so I contacted the cache owner to ask why. Apparently a few people failed to see the sense of humour behind the idea of putting this little spin on what is now an average traditional cache.

 

The hint was,"It's NOT under the rock." At GZ there was a suspicious looking rock so naturally you turn it over and sure enough there's a container. "That was easy..." Open it up to find a note saying something along the lines of,"Told you it's NOT under the rock... but you're close." A few meters away is where the true cache is hidden.

 

So now after a couple of silly comments in the logs the cache owner has removed the dummy in order to try keep everyone happy.

 

To me, I liked the idea and it put a new spin on things but at the same time it got me thinking. Are there any rules on "Dummy" containers and what are other people's opinions on them???

 

we found this cache a few weeks ago. listed as a regular. the clue actually said 'dont let this one rock you' which made us think it was either under, or disguised as a rock. and sure enough, at the givne coordinates , under a rock we found an official geo cache container.inside was what seemed to be a muggle info sheet folded up and no log book. we signed the paper, and mentioned this in out log later. the owner then deleted our log, saying we hadnt found the real cache and the 'joke was on us'. sorry we didnt even notice there was a joke.(and neither did some other cachers) we were just out to find regular caches that day.

we wondered about cache saturation, as the 'real' cache was hidden just a few meters away apparantly?.

anyway- it wasnt clear to us at all that we hadnt found the real cache. maybe the owner should have written on it 'not an offcial geo cache' or made it clear on a tag inside that we had to find the next one. other decoy caches mention in the description 'make sure you sign the real log' etc..so the joke was lost on us Im afraid!

M&J

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any rules

By rules in the Guidelines, I'd say no. At least not if those containers are effectively at the same coords.

Where a puzzle cache might have multiple solutions, and there are "not here" containers at some of them, those become part of the cache, and need to be reviewed for location.

 

Do not agree with this assessment. Caches can be easily recognized as such and so can be dummy containers. The rules/guidelines do not prohibit multiple containers in close proximity to each other, they only prohibit containers from different caches (that are listed on the same site) in close proximity to each other. Within the same cache there is no such rule and it's up to the CO to make sure that the seekers know what's going on and when they've found the actual cache.

 

We've found similar hides a few times, the one that stuck most to my memory was a stage of a multi. The hint for the stage said "not magnetic" and there was a metal bridge at the coords. Sure enough there was a magnetic key holder (or something similar) on it, with a note saying "told you, it's not magnetic". The actual container was elsewhere on the bridge (and not magnetic). I thought it was quite clever.

Edited by dfx
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So a few weeks ago a cache was published and as it turns out it made clever use of a dummy container. Now I see the dummy has been removed so I contacted the cache owner to ask why. Apparently a few people failed to see the sense of humour behind the idea of putting this little spin on what is now an average traditional cache.

 

The hint was,"It's NOT under the rock." At GZ there was a suspicious looking rock so naturally you turn it over and sure enough there's a container. "That was easy..." Open it up to find a note saying something along the lines of,"Told you it's NOT under the rock... but you're close." A few meters away is where the true cache is hidden.

 

So now after a couple of silly comments in the logs the cache owner has removed the dummy in order to try keep everyone happy.

 

To me, I liked the idea and it put a new spin on things but at the same time it got me thinking. Are there any rules on "Dummy" containers and what are other people's opinions on them???

 

we found this cache a few weeks ago. listed as a regular. the clue actually said 'dont let this one rock you' which made us think it was either under, or disguised as a rock. and sure enough, at the givne coordinates , under a rock we found an official geo cache container.inside was what seemed to be a muggle info sheet folded up and no log book. we signed the paper, and mentioned this in out log later. the owner then deleted our log, saying we hadnt found the real cache and the 'joke was on us'. sorry we didnt even notice there was a joke.(and neither did some other cachers) we were just out to find regular caches that day.

we wondered about cache saturation, as the 'real' cache was hidden just a few meters away apparantly?.

anyway- it wasnt clear to us at all that we hadnt found the real cache. maybe the owner should have written on it 'not an offcial geo cache' or made it clear on a tag inside that we had to find the next one. other decoy caches mention in the description 'make sure you sign the real log' etc..so the joke was lost on us Im afraid!

M&J

 

Time to add my penny's worth as the cache owner. The cache was listed as regular. Which it was. The clue was "Don't let this one rock you." This was designed to guide you away from the rock, but I guessed that most searchers would look there first. About a metre away from GZ (who is that accurate anyway?) there was a rock. Under it was a cache container. Inside the container was a sheet, which M&J did not read, which stated

 

"Actually - I’m sorry - you haven’t found Gosford 01.

 

Remember the clue was:-

 

“Don’t be rocked by this one.”

 

But you are close!!! :)

 

Please put this back and cover it so the next geocacher can join in the fun."

 

This took up about one third of an A4 page. M&J signed the back of the sheet, as did one other Geocacher. I am completely mystified why / how they did not read / see my note.

 

Previous Geocachers did, and enjoyed my SOH.

 

Also, as a matter of interest, I don't think cache saturation comes in to it - what they found was not an official Geocache.

 

And, notwithstanding what M&J said above, I have not deleted their log - well not on here anyway. And I did not say the joke was on them - I did make a comment that they did not share my sense of humour. When I took the dummy cache away I took my note as well, which they had signed. I still have it if they want to see it : they could take up my offer I made some time ago to meet for a cup of coffee.

 

Keep on Caching On.

 

fotomacc

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So a few weeks ago a cache was published and as it turns out it made clever use of a dummy container. Now I see the dummy has been removed so I contacted the cache owner to ask why. Apparently a few people failed to see the sense of humour behind the idea of putting this little spin on what is now an average traditional cache.

 

The hint was,"It's NOT under the rock." At GZ there was a suspicious looking rock so naturally you turn it over and sure enough there's a container. "That was easy..." Open it up to find a note saying something along the lines of,"Told you it's NOT under the rock... but you're close." A few meters away is where the true cache is hidden.

 

So now after a couple of silly comments in the logs the cache owner has removed the dummy in order to try keep everyone happy.

 

To me, I liked the idea and it put a new spin on things but at the same time it got me thinking. Are there any rules on "Dummy" containers and what are other people's opinions on them???

 

we found this cache a few weeks ago. listed as a regular. the clue actually said 'dont let this one rock you' which made us think it was either under, or disguised as a rock. and sure enough, at the givne coordinates , under a rock we found an official geo cache container.inside was what seemed to be a muggle info sheet folded up and no log book. we signed the paper, and mentioned this in out log later. the owner then deleted our log, saying we hadnt found the real cache and the 'joke was on us'. sorry we didnt even notice there was a joke.(and neither did some other cachers) we were just out to find regular caches that day.

we wondered about cache saturation, as the 'real' cache was hidden just a few meters away apparantly?.

anyway- it wasnt clear to us at all that we hadnt found the real cache. maybe the owner should have written on it 'not an offcial geo cache' or made it clear on a tag inside that we had to find the next one. other decoy caches mention in the description 'make sure you sign the real log' etc..so the joke was lost on us Im afraid!

M&J

 

Time to add my penny's worth as the cache owner. The cache was listed as regular. Which it was. The clue was "Don't let this one rock you." This was designed to guide you away from the rock, but I guessed that most searchers would look there first. About a metre away from GZ (who is that accurate anyway?) there was a rock. Under it was a cache container. Inside the container was a sheet, which M&J did not read, which stated

 

"Actually - I’m sorry - you haven’t found Gosford 01.

 

Remember the clue was:-

 

“Don’t be rocked by this one.”

 

But you are close!!! :)

 

Please put this back and cover it so the next geocacher can join in the fun."

 

This took up about one third of an A4 page. M&J signed the back of the sheet, as did one other Geocacher. I am completely mystified why / how they did not read / see my note.

 

Previous Geocachers did, and enjoyed my SOH.

 

Also, as a matter of interest, I don't think cache saturation comes in to it - what they found was not an official Geocache.

 

And, notwithstanding what M&J said above, I have not deleted their log - well not on here anyway. And I did not say the joke was on them - I did make a comment that they did not share my sense of humour. When I took the dummy cache away I took my note as well, which they had signed. I still have it if they want to see it : they could take up my offer I made some time ago to meet for a cup of coffee.

 

Keep on Caching On.

 

fotomacc

 

just to clarify, for the record- we dont have problems with decoy caches, we just didnt realise this WAS one! it was listed as a traditional, 1.5 star difficulty,found at the given coords, under the hinted rock, in an official geocaching container, the large A4 sized paper was folded so that the only bit you could see said "Congratulations you have found it" followed by the normal muggle sheet spiel - why would you bother unfolding and reading the rest? Maybe it was the way someone else put it back but there was absolutely nothing to indicate that this wasn't the cache.

 

and YOU DID originally delete ours and another's log, and wrote your log explaining why you had done this. (these have now been reinstated since you removed your decoy). we then E mailed you asking for an explanation, and your reply ended (copy & pasted from your e mail)...

 

"As you will see from earlier posts other finders have appreciated my little joke. Sorry if it has backfired with you."

 

we were going to go back and complete the finding of the 'real cache',to get the smiley face, but then you reinstated our find, so was no need.

 

Decoy caches can be fun. we just missed that this was one. maybe if the container was marked 'NOT an official geo cache', and contained a small plain card (instead of a multi folded large piece of paper)saying so- and maybe if the clue had said 'NOT under a rock' and listed as a harder difficulty- etc..etc..we would have got the "joke".

 

At the end of the day we weren't that bothered, we certainly didn't ask for the dummy to be removed just suggested maybe it was made clearer that it wasn't actually the cache when found.

 

M&J

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With all due respect M&J I DID NOT remove your logs. Why would I?

 

Anyway, I think this matter has gone on long enough. Maybe one day we will meet and have a laugh over this storm in a geocache container.

 

Well our logged find did disappear for sometime, but hey-ho as we said we are not bothered by things like this and if you do come along to any of the social events we will buy you a beer!!

 

It's a great idea if done properly, why don't you put it back but make it clear that it is a dummy? maybe crank up the difficulty, change the hint to not under a rock and make a card that clearly says you haven't found it?

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if you do come along to any of the social events we will buy you a beer!!

 

 

Cool! I'm up for a beer. :) About time we had event out East. I'll spread the word. When's it happening?? :D

 

sounds a good idea. any idea for a venue? a pub meet? or a BBQ in the park type of event?

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I was also one who was (silly enough) to get the dummy cache first.....Remember the description and found the "real" cache.

 

I do encourage such a funny caches. It is what said before: it breaks the normal caching hunt.

Put the dummy back !! I love it :rolleyes:

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Are there any rules on "Dummy" containers and what are other people's opinions on them???

 

any rules

By rules in the Guidelines, I'd say no. At least not if those containers are effectively at the same coords.

Where a puzzle cache might have multiple solutions, and there are "not here" containers at some of them, those become part of the cache, and need to be reviewed for location.

 

other people's opinions

It depends. I'll start by saying that I adopted a dummy container cache, and recently archived it. When I archived it, there were 4 ammo cans on the ground, and the real cache suspended over head. I archived it because, in spite of notes in each can explaining that the ammo can was not the cache - people would find a can, and log a find. They'd remove the note, add a log, someone even swagged up a can. These cans were all burnt or rusted to the point that I couldn't use them for a cache. Anyway, I gave up.

I think that many owners will.

Another common variant on dummy containers is the large container filled with small containers (usually film cans, because they're free) and only one of them has the log. People simply add logs to a film can. Or leave them opened, taking lids, or cans (I consider this design really really tedious myself, but wouldn't sabotage it, I'd just open the big container and close it again, logging a DNF).

Dummy cache containers fall into the useless hints category- I hate them... especially the under rock one where there's a great pile of the darn things all at GZ!

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I'm pretty new to geocaching still but I like the idea of dummy containers. It adds an extra spin and can make things a little more challenging. I suppose not everyone is going to be pleased but it seems a shame to change a cache just to keep some happy when so many others love it!

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Just to add my 2-cents' worth... I havn't yet found a cache with a decoy/dummy container - but it does sound like a great twist, and IMHO there's no problem as long as the decoy is clearly labelled as such.

 

One cache I've found consists of a box within a box within a box within... you get the idea. In the teeny tiny box in the middle is a note saying that 'this is not the log book'. The real log book is cleverly concealed elsewhere within the cache. But if you read the online logs, it's amazing the number of people who say 'the log book was missing so I signed and left a new piece of paper'. I feel a bit miffed that I did find the real logbook and yet people who didn't find it, and didn't read the other note, still get a smiley! But then they did find the cache and it is just a game...

 

Happy geocaching everyone : )

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I'm pretty new to geocaching still but I like the idea of dummy containers. It adds an extra spin and can make things a little more challenging. I suppose not everyone is going to be pleased but it seems a shame to change a cache just to keep some happy when so many others love it!

 

I agree, I may be a new player too, but as the other cache was close by I think it would be interesting to find. It's like the multi-level puzzle caches, where there could be red herrings.

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I have a cache ( http://coord.info/GC2B3Y6 ) that has 30 Dummy containers all located in the typical place, while the real container is not. And it is my favorite caches to read logs from. yeah there have been some complaints in the past but most people love it.

I read through the logs and there was one grumpy person and a person beggining to get annoyed

I think if you make it fun like this less people will be annoyed

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On 2/7/2011 at 4:16 AM, Kyle891 said:

So a few weeks ago a cache was published and as it turns out it made clever use of a dummy container. Now I see the dummy has been removed so I contacted the cache owner to ask why. Apparently a few people failed to see the sense of humour behind the idea of putting this little spin on what is now an average traditional cache.

 

The hint was,"It's NOT under the rock." At GZ there was a suspicious looking rock so naturally you turn it over and sure enough there's a container. "That was easy..." Open it up to find a note saying something along the lines of,"Told you it's NOT under the rock... but you're close." A few meters away is where the true cache is hidden.

 

So now after a couple of silly comments in the logs the cache owner has removed the dummy in order to try keep everyone happy.

 

To me, I liked the idea and it put a new spin on things but at the same time it got me thinking. Are there any rules on "Dummy" containers and what are other people's opinions on them???

Hello from Massachusetts!     In my area in northeast U.S./New England its not at all uncommon to use what we call a "decoy".  We also may call them a "red herring" ,"dummy cache".,although "decoy" is most commonly used.  I have just under 300 caches hidden with more to come along - to give you an idea on my ratio of hidden caches vs. using "decoys"., i probably have 12 of them.  There isn't a set rule to my knowledge of the limit , but i wouldn't abuse it otherwise you'll get feed back in a hurray -- mostly on the negative side.  Personally , i think it's a fun idea!  Anything to add a little twist for fun!  What i have done is sprinkle the usage of decoys throughout my typical area.  Some people actually have a traditional cache with several decoys.  I have only one cache thats a traditional Easter egg cache ,surrounded by 12 identical color,size easter eggs ,all pink.  I only got 1 complaint for it ---most thought the twist was fun.  I hope that helps!?   QuietBear

  • Surprised 1
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There's a cache near me called "NotYour Average Guardrail Cache". It states it has numerous decoys. I have found two and some have found 5 but the cache is there and still being found.The page has a picture of a guardrail with a bovine stuck o oyt with an arrow stating "Not jte cache.":lol:  

The same COs have one  that the  log is in the container, but cleverly hidden.

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Guess it depends on your location...

I'm in the Northeast US also, and these "which one is it?" things usually end up canned quickly after newbs sign/add paper to every log but the one needed.

No offense to QuietBear, but these things are hardly "a twist".

We've found them steadily since starting,  often when a newb realizes it's "different" then they were finding, not realizing it's been done.

 - Sorta like lamp post hides...

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