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Who is FTF?


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My family is new to this. However, I went out just before midnight to find a Cache and be the FTF. By 1 A.M.; I had completed my task. A was very proud newbie and a bit nervous. I felt like I should not be out there in the dark prowling around. Anyway I opened the container. There was no signature. It was blank and I put my FTF and removed a string of purple beads and left a "Where's George" dollar bill.

 

A number of days later another member informed me he was the FTF. "Didn't I read the side of the container?" Well it was dark and I did not read or look at the side of the container which is quite large. He said he could not get the container open. This member has about 3000 finds compared to my 67 finds and this would be my 2nd FTF.

 

Please provide the RULING.

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

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A FTF and 2 quarters will buy you a can of pop at the local vending machine.

 

There are no "rules" to FTF on the site as it is a side game enjoyed by many but not officially sanctioned by the site.

 

......however --- if they didn't bother to open the cache and sign the log - I'd say it just doesn't count. I'd delete a log that claimed that if it was my cache.

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I swear this exact topic and story came up about 2 weeks ago.

 

Bottom line is first sig on the log is FTF. No log no FTF. There are many caches out there that part of the find is getting the cache open. But in the end anyone can claim FTF. No one is around to make the final ruling. Though in my opinion its the CO's option to award FTF recognition in the cache description. But i'm sure most CO's will recognize the first to sign the log as FTF.

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For the record, WHAT did the Cache Owner decide? Not that it matters much... it's really up to them, if anyone is worried about it.

 

I do agree that the normal thing is for the first name in the logbook to be FTF... never seen anything in the guidelines about signing a cache container. How long did the other cacher claim to have been ahead of you time wise? I'm thinking it can't have been too long if you were out at 0100 (local). What weather conditions were there... I mean that to be IF it was snowy did you see any tracks there?

 

Good luck with it!

 

Doug 7rxc

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Thank you to everyone that provided information. I can now go on and work on FTF's. My favorite part is going and finding places I haven't been or seen.

 

Sincerely,

 

United Network Command for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

 

"My favorite part is going and finding places I haven't been or seen. "

 

Then why on earth would you waste your time care about chasing FTFs?

 

You are new at this... did you realize that it is only a very small subset of geocaching that thinks that being FTF really means anything?

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For the record, WHAT did the Cache Owner decide? Not that it matters much... it's really up to them, if anyone is worried about it.

 

I do agree that the normal thing is for the first name in the logbook to be FTF... never seen anything in the guidelines about signing a cache container. How long did the other cacher claim to have been ahead of you time wise? I'm thinking it can't have been too long if you were out at 0100 (local). What weather conditions were there... I mean that to be IF it was snowy did you see any tracks there?

 

Good luck with it!

 

Doug 7rxc

 

The owner has not weighed in yet. I was communicating with the other possible FTF. Funny thing he actually did not computer log as such. I think he wants me to change mine. This is why I went to post this page. Especially since a I feel I am bit of a newbie still. By the way a few days ago was nice weather in Dallas and now snow. Which today there is snow and ice.

 

Thank you

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

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Thank you to everyone that provided information. I can now go on and work on FTF's. My favorite part is going and finding places I haven't been or seen.

 

Sincerely,

 

United Network Command for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

 

"My favorite part is going and finding places I haven't been or seen. "

 

Then why on earth would you waste your time care about chasing FTFs?

 

You are new at this... did you realize that it is only a very small subset of geocaching that thinks that being FTF really means anything?

You are correct. However, I completed one the day before that one and I wanted to do a few more. I see some Cachers; this is all they do is the FTF's. A few for me wasn't too bad; just experience.

 

Thank you,

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

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1) There's no official policy as Groundspeak stays out of the FTF controversies and doesn't not officially recognize the FTF subgame.

 

2) It's really up to the CO.

 

3) My opinion, which I think is shared with many others, is that if you didn't sign the log then you can't be FTF even if you found the container. I say this as someone who is not very strict otherwise about log signing (and definitely less strict that some other forum members). Couldn't get the PVC tub to open? Log was moldy or wet? Yeah, whatever. But no excuses if you want FTF credit.

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A number of days later another member informed me he was the FTF. "Didn't I read the side of the container?" Well it was dark and I did not read or look at the side of the container which is quite large. He said he could not get the container open. This member has about 3000 finds compared to my 67 finds and this would be my 2nd FTF.

 

I would have politely replied "Yes I checked the container and surrounding area for signatures, graffiti, and cave drawings and your signature, not any mark made by a man was nowhere to be found, you sure it was the actual cache you found? Maybe it was just a piece of trash, or maybe you just got there after me.... did you see my name on the log sheet when you looked at it?" Bonus points the more innocent yet sarcastic you sound while saying it.

 

P.S. If I was the CO I'd delete the finders log for "no matching name found in log book", then chew him out for damaging my container!

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A number of days later another member informed me he was the FTF. "Didn't I read the side of the container?" Well it was dark and I did not read or look at the side of the container which is quite large. He said he could not get the container open. This member has about 3000 finds compared to my 67 finds and this would be my 2nd FTF.

 

I would have politely replied "Yes I checked the container and surrounding area for signatures, graffiti, and cave drawings and your signature, not any mark made by a man was nowhere to be found, you sure it was the actual cache you found? Maybe it was just a piece of trash, or maybe you just got there after me.... did you see my name on the log sheet when you looked at it?" Bonus points the more innocent yet sarcastic you sound while saying it.

 

P.S. If I was the CO I'd delete the finders log for "no matching name found in log book", then chew him out for damaging my container!

 

Thanks for the reply. This sarcasm drives the point.

 

The Universal Ruling I will provide Enforcement for will be (FTF is the First to Sign).

 

Sincerely,

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

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just cause that guy has more caches than you, don't let him imtimidate you.

 

alot of caches i view give credit to the FTF... if the cache owner gives it to you this way, great.. but dont' lose any sleep over it. several FTF's we have were not noted in the cache descriptions.. we are bummed about it, but move on... i think the first written log with that big ol FTF in front of it is what counts anyway.. i even go so far as to note the time of day so that the second to find knows how much they missed it. makes it fun i think and adds a layer to it.

 

as a kid, did you ever play a game with other kids and get upset cause of someone not following the rules or making up a new rule? just move on.. you'll be happier.

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A number of days later another member informed me he was the FTF. "Didn't I read the side of the container?" Well it was dark and I did not read or look at the side of the container which is quite large. He said he could not get the container open. This member has about 3000 finds compared to my 67 finds and this would be my 2nd FTF.

 

I would have politely replied "Yes I checked the container and surrounding area for signatures, graffiti, and cave drawings and your signature, not any mark made by a man was nowhere to be found, you sure it was the actual cache you found? Maybe it was just a piece of trash, or maybe you just got there after me.... did you see my name on the log sheet when you looked at it?" Bonus points the more innocent yet sarcastic you sound while saying it.

 

P.S. If I was the CO I'd delete the finders log for "no matching name found in log book", then chew him out for damaging my container!

 

What he said.

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A number of days later another member informed me he was the FTF. "Didn't I read the side of the container?" Well it was dark and I did not read or look at the side of the container which is quite large. He said he could not get the container open. This member has about 3000 finds compared to my 67 finds and this would be my 2nd FTF.

 

Please provide the RULING.

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

Just curious. Did you have any issues opening the container? If it was a standard container that is simple to open then it sounds like this guy is being shady. If you too had a hard time opening it then maybe there is something to his claim. I still feel you are the FTF because signing the outside of a container is lame.

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A number of days later another member informed me he was the FTF. "Didn't I read the side of the container?" Well it was dark and I did not read or look at the side of the container which is quite large. He said he could not get the container open. This member has about 3000 finds compared to my 67 finds and this would be my 2nd FTF.

 

Please provide the RULING.

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

Just curious. Did you have any issues opening the container? If it was a standard container that is simple to open then it sounds like this guy is being shady. If you too had a hard time opening it then maybe there is something to his claim. I still feel you are the FTF because signing the outside of a container is lame.

The Cache looked like a 4 inch diameter green pipe bomb with a screw on end. It was very tight. I opened it though. I put this post up because of this Cachers vast experience. I have the answer now.

 

The FTF is the First to Sign.

 

Thanks

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

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If he couldn't get the container open, how does he know you hadn't already signed the log before he got there?

I will say this. When I logged the web page; I posted the time also.

 

Thank you

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

What... with that cheap old watch of yours? That never has kept the correct time. What makes you think it did that night? :ph34r:
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If he couldn't get the container open, how does he know you hadn't already signed the log before he got there?

I will say this. When I logged the web page; I posted the time also.

 

Thank you

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

What... with that cheap old watch of yours? That never has kept the correct time. What makes you think it did that night? :ph34r:

No watch here. Just the iphone 4 time along with my Garmin Oregon 450

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

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If he couldn't get the container open, how does he know you hadn't already signed the log before he got there?

I will say this. When I logged the web page; I posted the time also.

 

Thank you

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

What... with that cheap old watch of yours? That never has kept the correct time. What makes you think it did that night? :ph34r:

No watch here. Just the iphone 4 time along with my Garmin Oregon 450

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

Shush!!! I'm trying to help you out here!!
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Please provide the RULING.

There is no ruling. FTF is not an official part of geocaching.

 

If you want to be FTF, then call yourself FTF.

That's a bit inaccurate. FTF's are not recognized by GS, they are part of geocaching, however.

Nope. I don't think that was inaccurate in the least. FTF is not an official part of geocaching. It is, however, a part of a few geocacher's personal game, even if I can't really understand it.

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The Cache looked like a 4 inch diameter green pipe bomb with a screw on end.

 

I know it is off topic but since you are a new cacher I wanted to point out this is NOT a good idea to put out as a cache, last thing we need are MORE bomb scares caused by caches found by the public. Never put out a cache that can be easily mistaken for a bomb, and always mark them as geocache on the container.

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.....

Edited by KI4HLW
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For the record, WHAT did the Cache Owner decide? Not that it matters much... it's really up to them, if anyone is worried about it.

 

This I don't get. FTF is a statement of fact, it's not something to be awarded. There are two possibilities. You either found the cache first or you didn't. It doesn't matter what the cache owner or anybody else says.

Edited by briansnat
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My family is new to this. However, I went out just before midnight to find a Cache and be the FTF. By 1 A.M.; I had completed my task. A was very proud newbie and a bit nervous. I felt like I should not be out there in the dark prowling around. Anyway I opened the container. There was no signature. It was blank and I put my FTF and removed a string of purple beads and left a "Where's George" dollar bill.

 

A number of days later another member informed me he was the FTF. "Didn't I read the side of the container?" Well it was dark and I did not read or look at the side of the container which is quite large. He said he could not get the container open. This member has about 3000 finds compared to my 67 finds and this would be my 2nd FTF.

 

Please provide the RULING.

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

 

This is pretty much the same Thread I started a few weeks ago, same exact scenario

 

You R the FTF as said in this thread as it was in mine the overwhelming opinion is whoever signs the log first claims the FTF.

 

Scubasonic

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For the record, WHAT did the Cache Owner decide? Not that it matters much... it's really up to them, if anyone is worried about it.

 

This I don't get. FTF is a statement of fact, it's not something to be awarded. There are two possibilities. You either found the cache first or you didn't. It doesn't matter what the cache owner or anybody else says.

 

As the Moderator; do you suggest I remove my electronic log stating FTF? I can also go out and find the Cache and correct the paper log.

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

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For the record, WHAT did the Cache Owner decide? Not that it matters much... it's really up to them, if anyone is worried about it.

 

This I don't get. FTF is a statement of fact, it's not something to be awarded. There are two possibilities. You either found the cache first or you didn't. It doesn't matter what the cache owner or anybody else says.

 

Agreed, that the fact of FTF is a consequence of finding it first and signing first spot on the log. Aside from the times true FTF's are sometimes logged on the back of a middle page in the log to deceive others. Really, only the cache owner is in a position to examine the log to see which it is. I don't care which it is, like many aspects of Geocaching, I simply don't try hard to play.

Get one, fine, not get one also fine. I see that in the online logs... there are two cachers logged ahead of the high count cacher.

Both on the 29th and the h/c claims a find on the 30th but logged on the 1st. Middle of the night can confuse dates easily, so the accuracy isn't there either... wonder what the 2nd logger would say about the sequence?

 

Games with vague rules don't exactly turn me on. People can play or not... IF they can figure out what they are playing.

 

Doug 7rxc

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For the record, WHAT did the Cache Owner decide? Not that it matters much... it's really up to them, if anyone is worried about it.

 

This I don't get. FTF is a statement of fact, it's not something to be awarded. There are two possibilities. You either found the cache first or you didn't. It doesn't matter what the cache owner or anybody else says.

 

Agreed, that the fact of FTF is a consequence of finding it first and signing first spot on the log. Aside from the times true FTF's are sometimes logged on the back of a middle page in the log to deceive others. Really, only the cache owner is in a position to examine the log to see which it is. I don't care which it is, like many aspects of Geocaching, I simply don't try hard to play.

Get one, fine, not get one also fine. I see that in the online logs... there are two cachers logged ahead of the high count cacher.

Both on the 29th and the h/c claims a find on the 30th but logged on the 1st. Middle of the night can confuse dates easily, so the accuracy isn't there either... wonder what the 2nd logger would say about the sequence?

 

Games with vague rules don't exactly turn me on. People can play or not... IF they can figure out what they are playing.

 

Doug 7rxc

 

I will say this. Since it was so late at night; I reviewed the front and back of the strip of paper log because I was so excited about being first. No other log was entered but mine. I was really glad no one else had signed.

 

Thanks again everyone.

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

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I will say this. Since it was so late at night; I reviewed the front and back of the strip of paper log because I was so excited about being first. No other log was entered but mine. I was really glad no one else had signed.
That sounds like an FTF to me. Congratulations!
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Hi!

 

Please provide the RULING.

There is no ruling. FTF is not an official part of geocaching.

 

If you want to be FTF, then call yourself FTF.

That's a bit inaccurate. FTF's are not recognized by GS, they are part of geocaching, however.

Nope. I don't think that was inaccurate in the least. FTF is not an official part of geocaching. It is, however, a part of a few geocacher's personal game, even if I can't really understand it.

 

I'm in the FTF "business", too and I really like it!

 

Just one simple reason: You are the only one finding the cache as it was placed by the owner originally! And there usually are no traces, no aaditional clues from other's log and so on.

 

The negative aspect of FTF hunting is that you quite often are the Beta tester, too :-) Oh, cache not placed yet? Coords way off? Cache size wrong? D/T different from what you would think?

 

All in all the positive aspect for me is well worth it so I'm still trying if I'm able to find some time that for.

 

Bye,

Christian

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I'd say that FTF hunting is definitely an accepted part of the Geocaching game. Some aren't interested but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, and it seems to be well known all over the world.

 

There are some accepted rules, and IMO one of them is that the FTF is the first person to sign the log book.

Although there are a few excuses for not signing the book, these aren't allowed in FTF hunting. Signing the outside of the container is no good. It's supposed to be a little gentle fun competition, however, so I'd e-mail the complainant and say that they can claim the FTF if they like. At the same time, amend your log and change it to "first to sign the log". You COULD add a slightly snarky remark that the previous finder was unable to find the log book but is claiming it as a find anyway, but it's probably better not to give in to such temptation.

 

N.B. Do you get a lot of pipe bombs around there? I wouldn't know what one looks like. Sounds rather worrying!

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Don't remove or change your log.

 

For FTF hounds there's 2 ways to track their FTFs. 1) A bookmark list (2) Marking them on their stat program. Neither of these require anything special. I could be the 39th person to find and still mark it as a FTF. So if this one cacher feels he was first he can claim it on his stats while you claim it on yours. No one else will care.

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You have a stronger case since your name is in the actual log. Claim it as a FTF. The other cacher has no way of knowing if you signed it before him or not. If he is OK in his mind with claiming it as a FTF he can do so as well and it won't affect you in any way. Heck, the third to show up can say "Well, since you two can't sort it out I'll take it."

 

Anyone can claim FTF on any cache they want since there is no refereee and no official rules on the matter. I hope they never make it an official part of the game.

 

I used to chase FTFs now I don't bother. In fact, now I just don't get the appeal and I wonder what I was thinking at the time.

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For the record, WHAT did the Cache Owner decide? Not that it matters much... it's really up to them, if anyone is worried about it.

 

This I don't get. FTF is a statement of fact, it's not something to be awarded. There are two possibilities. You either found the cache first or you didn't. It doesn't matter what the cache owner or anybody else says.

 

As the Moderator; do you suggest I remove my electronic log stating FTF? I can also go out and find the Cache and correct the paper log.

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

Moderators are simply volunteers that moderate forum behavior. What Briansnat says regarding your post carries only the weight of his personal opinion. You signed the log first, and the other cacher obviously can't dispute this, since he never looked at the log. Besides, his job was to sign the log, not to deface the cache container.
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For the record, WHAT did the Cache Owner decide? Not that it matters much... it's really up to them, if anyone is worried about it.

 

This I don't get. FTF is a statement of fact, it's not something to be awarded. There are two possibilities. You either found the cache first or you didn't. It doesn't matter what the cache owner or anybody else says.

 

As the Moderator; do you suggest I remove my electronic log stating FTF? I can also go out and find the Cache and correct the paper log.

 

United Network for Cache Law and Enforcement

U.N.C.L.E.

Moderators are simply volunteers that moderate forum behavior. What Briansnat says regarding your post carries only the weight of his personal opinion. You signed the log first, and the other cacher obviously can't dispute this, since he never looked at the log. Besides, his job was to sign the log, not to deface the cache container.

 

Adding to this that even if Briansnat was a Reviewer (;) ;) nod nod) or a Groundspeak Lackey, or Jeremy Irish himself, they don't get involved in FTF on a guideline or "ruling" level. It's just a side game that only exists in the text of the logs or on the cache page. There could just as rationally be a "First to Wink" or "First to Trip" game going on.

 

And yes, defacing the container with your signature is being a dink.

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As A FTF player in the early days, it was always first to sign the log.

There was mainly myself and 1 other player that battled, and I really hated it when I'd open a cache and see that da.. Coronado bay bridge pass in the cache.

 

Hiya Mark if your out there :lol:

 

Don't mind the ramblings of an old man :lol:

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For the record, WHAT did the Cache Owner decide? Not that it matters much... it's really up to them, if anyone is worried about it.

 

It's not "up to" the cache owner, either. Groundspeak has no interest in getting involved in these sorts of disputes...why would a cache owner want to?

 

Some cache owners will edit the cache page to add the "congrats to" a FTF, or one of those annoying scrolling bars, but it's certainly not an obligation.

 

This is pretty much the same Thread I started a few weeks ago, same exact scenario

 

You R the FTF as said in this thread as it was in mine the overwhelming opinion is whoever signs the log first claims the FTF.

 

Scubasonic

 

It's so nice to finally have a functioning "search" feature:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=266634

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I pulled this from the FAQ section of geocaching.com:

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

Section "Finding your first geocache":

 

Step 4 – The Actual Find

Hurray! You found your first geocache. Congratulations! Now what?

1. Take note of the style and method of this hide. Where did this geocache bring you? Enjoy the location.

2. Sign the logbook with your name, the date, and a few words about your experience.

3. If you trade....

 

And of course the Geocaching Guidelines:

 

4.1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches

Physical geocaches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed. An exception is Challenge Caches, which may only be logged online after the challenge requirements have been met and documented to the cache owner's satisfaction.

 

So to be short: He didn't sign the logbook, so he does not even have a Found. So he cannot have a FTF. End of discussion.

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It's not "up to" the cache owner, either. Groundspeak has no interest in getting involved in these sorts of disputes...why would a cache owner want to?

 

Some cache owners will edit the cache page to add the "congrats to" a FTF, or one of those annoying scrolling bars, but it's certainly not an obligation.

 

 

Interesting... I constantly read here about the Cache owner has the say on allowing or disallowing online logs based on several criteria... and if they make a 'mistake' then an appeal process is available to restore a 'mistake'. We're not talking awarding an FTF here... just verifying the log... From what I see the matter has been settled. Lack of clear game objectives is why I don't play that game. Guess it depends on how the players feel from day to day doesn't it... they just change the game to suit the mood.

There should be one spot to sign (if any) for FTF... anywhere else is a big Sorry! That would be simple and clear. But then one could not wiggle it very much, so that would not be popular.

 

Doug 7rxc

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