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Logging a cache


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This is for the reviewers out there.

 

I'm in the process of developing a 'power trail' and realize you can't put stipulations for logging a find; i.e., no photos can be required, dressing up in some costume, etc. However, I've read the forums enough to know that a great many people believe it is perfectly fine to use rubber stamps and stickers (labels) to mark their presence at a cache site. Sicne the majority of 'power trail' caches are of the micro variety, that usually means a somewhat limited logging space and rubber stamps and stickers can take up as much as four or five signature lines; resulting, of course, in more frequent maintenance to replace logs. According to the Groundspeak guidelines:

Easy Steps to Geocaching

1. Register for a free Basic Membership.

2. Click "Hide & Seek a Cache."

3. Enter your postal code and click "search."

4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

It would seem to me that a CO should be able to require 'signing' the log and the option of deleting any log that uses a rubber stamp or sticker or otherwise abuses the logging space provided. If the CO(s) can take the time, expense and energy to put caches out for others to find it would seem to me that those finding those caches should have the respect to sign the log in a reasonable manner.

 

So, can a CO put a requirement that the log be signed or initialed with the option of deleting any logs that don't adhere to the requrirement w/o incuring the wrath of those in power?

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I'm not a reviewer but I know the answer.

 

NO - you can't stipulate that. They found the cache and signed it thier own way - they can log it online.

 

Cache owners may not delete the cache seeker's log based solely on optional tasks.

 

This guideline change applies immediately to all logs written from April 4, 2009 and going forward. Older caches with "additional logging requirements" (ALRs) are not grandfathered under the older guideline. If you own an existing cache with mandatory additional logging requirements, we request that you:

 

Cease deleting logs based on additional logging requirements.

Review your own cache listing to see if the ALR can be made into an optional and simple task, or whether it must be removed altogether.

Adjust your geocache listing by editing the text then contact a reviewer to change the cache type, if appropriate.

Edited by StarBrand
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If you make a power trail with micro containers along a road, with a container every 600 feet or so, you will have plenty of help. people will change the log, or throwdown a new container, you'll probably have 2 or more in many locations, Many won't sign at all. Preloaded containers will migrate along the trail. You will never be able to manage it anyway, so your question isn't really valid. There is almost a subculture mentality with these new powertrails. Good Luck!

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If your a rubber stamper the you either have a small stamp, use to having partial stamps or just avoid micros completely. Same with stickers. Micros and nanos are the only thing preventing me from have a stamp made or making one myself. It would be so much easier to sign that way. Especially in the cold weather months.

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If you make a power trail with micro containers along a road, with a container every 600 feet or so, you will have plenty of help. people will change the log, or throwdown a new container, you'll probably have 2 or more in many locations, Many won't sign at all. Preloaded containers will migrate along the trail. You will never be able to manage it anyway, so your question isn't really valid. There is almost a subculture mentality with these new powertrails. Good Luck!

 

The power trail I have in mind isn't readily accesible to your average family sedan and the caches won't be all that easy to find; i.e., no rocks piled alongside delineators and such. You will actually have to get out to look for the cache, so not your standard 'power trail'; not, I'm sure, that it would make any difference to the proponents of using stamps and stickers.

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NG. That looks to me to be an ALR. You're going to go out, check your caches, and delete the log of anyone who used a stamp or sticker? After the damage has already been done? (I've seen people take up half of a side on a nano log, with a signature.) How about if they sign, and then put six stickers on the log?

Nope. Ain't gonna fly.

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Due to the fact my cache was a nano at one point in its life, I asked finders to please sign with just their initials to conserve space. When I received a note in a log saying the sheet was full, we went to deal with it. The person said there was no space to sign. There was plenty of white space to be seen, only a couple of folks had signed with initials only. You can ask, but your request may not be seen/remembered. As far as stamps/stickers go, maybe it is the only way someone can "sign" the log. As long as there is some kind of mark, that's fine with me.

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If it's not readily assessable to the power cachers they more then likely will not be bothered doing them.

As for stickers think of a group of cachers that go out for a day of caching and if they all sign the log it would take up more room then using a sticker with a group name :)

 

They can sign a group name if they can use one on a sticker.

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I propose that you hide containers that are large enough to contain logs that will accomodate stamps and/or stickers

 

I propose you support the cause with the larger containers. Seems most, not all, responsed are from those who have very few, if any hides of their own so have no clue about the expense of maintaining caches, must less the cost of supplying 'larger' containers. Over 13,000 caches found and not one hide? And I should take your advice, why? Speak from experience and I just might change my views. However, the 'rules' of geocaching states "SIGN" the log. Try signing a check with a sticker and see how that floats.

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It's not a powertrail if you can't drive to each one. It's called a series. There's one in my area, 100 caches long, it's a walk/bike only trail. All hidden by the trail owners.

 

You'll be able to drive to each one, you'll just have to look to find it. There are roads throughout the area, just not all are passable by low-clearance passenger cars.

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If it's good enough for someone's legal signature, then it's good enough for geocaching. (Yes, I know people who use custom rubber stamps as their legal signature.) And as others have indicated, trying to specify how someone signs your logs probably violates the ban on Additional Logging Requirements in the guidelines.

 

But since you aren't creating a (modern) numbers run trail anyway, I doubt it will be an issue. Those who seek the caches on your (old-fashioned) power trail won't be using stamps and stickers to shave a few seconds off the time it takes to find and log each cache. Anyone who uses a stamp or sticker on your caches will probably be doing so because the stamp or sticker makes it easier for them to sign the log legibly, without taking up too much space on the log.

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You can respectfully ask on the cache page(s) that finders sign with initials only, or no stamps/no labels, but you cannot require it and you cannot delete logs for failure to sign the log in the manner you would prefer.

 

With that said, if it is a power trail, no one is going to read the cache pages anyway - they will just move from one to the other as quickly as possible to earn the group of smileys you have provided in the least amount of time.

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Anyone who uses a stamp or sticker on your caches will probably be doing so because the stamp or sticker makes it easier for them to sign the log legibly, without taking up too much space on the log.

 

I use a stamp most of the time. I also use a sticker when we use our team account. I use them because I like being creative. It actually takes me longer to use the stamp or sticker because I've got to fish the stamp and inkpad out of my backpack. I've got to peel the darn backing off the sticker which can be a pain. But just writing Lone R and the date is so boring and impersonal. When I use the stamp or sticker I also write a note plus sign the log.

 

I like using my personalized stamp and/or sticker. I like leaving a note. I appreciate it when people do the same in the caches we've hidden.

 

I'm not happy with micros especially those where the owner doesn't want you to take up more then a 1/8" x 1/4" of space. What peeves me even more is finding a small or regular size cache - that can easily contain a small or large notebook - and inside you find a 8.5x11" sheet of paper to sign.

 

One time I opened up the sandwich size container and couldn't find the logbook. The logs didn't mention anything about a missing logbook. So I opened up the baggie with the geo-instruction sheet. Unfolded the page and on the back was a printed table with 1/8"x1/4" cells. It just shouts..."I'm a CO that doesn't want to have to maintain this cache." They obviously hope the cache log will not have to be replaced for at least a couple years.

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I propose that you hide containers that are large enough to contain logs that will accomodate stamps and/or stickers

 

I propose you support the cause with the larger containers. Seems most, not all, responsed are from those who have very few, if any hides of their own so have no clue about the expense of maintaining caches, must less the cost of supplying 'larger' containers. Over 13,000 caches found and not one hide? And I should take your advice, why? Speak from experience and I just might change my views. However, the 'rules' of geocaching states "SIGN" the log. Try signing a check with a sticker and see how that floats.

 

That is a snotty response to the one idea that would solve your issue. If you don't like it, I think that you should resign yourself to the suggestion that everyone else has offered, which is basically to take a deep breath and deal.

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I propose that you hide containers that are large enough to contain logs that will accomodate stamps and/or stickers

 

I propose you support the cause with the larger containers. Seems most, not all, responsed are from those who have very few, if any hides of their own so have no clue about the expense of maintaining caches, must less the cost of supplying 'larger' containers. Over 13,000 caches found and not one hide? And I should take your advice, why? Speak from experience and I just might change my views. However, the 'rules' of geocaching states "SIGN" the log. Try signing a check with a sticker and see how that floats.

 

Harsh....

 

I have 160 hides and I'll give the same advice - using a decent sized container with larger logbook would solve the issue completely. If your throwing out a few dozen micros with scraps of paper to save money you aren't going to get sympathy from me.

 

Once again - you cannot make such a requirement and get your caches past review.

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I propose that you hide containers that are large enough to contain logs that will accomodate stamps and/or stickers

 

I propose you support the cause with the larger containers. Seems most, not all, responsed are from those who have very few, if any hides of their own so have no clue about the expense of maintaining caches, must less the cost of supplying 'larger' containers. Over 13,000 caches found and not one hide? And I should take your advice, why? Speak from experience and I just might change my views. However, the 'rules' of geocaching states "SIGN" the log. Try signing a check with a sticker and see how that floats.

 

I haven't seen a check signed with a sticker yet and doubt I will because it would be too slow. On the other hand I would bet that every week millions of checks get cashed that are signed with a rubber stamp.

 

You speak of expense and that is certainly a consideration. However, any cache I hide or adopt will be a larger container unless a micro is all that will work in that location. The only reason I have micros at all is because they were part of a package adoption and a larger container simply will not work in one location, probably not in the second but I'm not ready to give up on the idea just yet. If I can't afford to maintain them I won't place them.

 

To your original question, you can not require that. You can ask but that is as far as you can go.

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I'm not a reviewer but I know the answer.

 

NO - you can't stipulate that. They found the cache and signed it thier own way - they can log it online.

 

 

COOL! I just had a great and unique idea to sign logs that people would always know is me so I'm glad to know it is ok, I don't always have a pen but as a smoker I always carry a lighter, now I will just BURN the logs as my signature!

 

OK, I know that's over the top, but there IS a limit to how much leeway you have to give someone. Next people will just start wrapping their stickers around a nano container. Who cares if I ruin it for other people, long as I got MY smiley.

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This is for the reviewers out there.

 

I'm in the process of developing a 'power trail'

<snip>

resulting, of course, in more frequent maintenance to replace logs.

So, can a CO put a requirement that the log be signed or initialed with the option of deleting any logs that don't adhere to the requrirement w/o incuring the wrath of those in power?

 

Don't hide caches that are going to require more maintenance than you are willing to perform.

 

A series of micros is going to require frequent replacing of logs. If you aren't willing to do that, then don't hide them.

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And I should take your advice, why? Speak from experience and I just might change my views.

Wow. Such angst. Do you really check out a person's profile before weighing the quality of their statement? Personally, I would think that someone who has located thousands of caches might have some pretty valid opinions on the topic of hides. But apparently you think otherwise, so I'll walk away from that one. I have over 60 active hides. Does that qualify me to have an opinion? If so, here's mine:

 

It doesn't really matter what size container you use, though, in my opinion, bigger is usually better, everything else being equal. What does matter, to me, is what kind of container you use. There are containers of all size ranges that have proved themselves over time, to keep their contents dry in almost any environment. These include ammo cans, Lock & Locks, soda bottle preforms, match safes and real Bison Design tubes. There are also containers in all size ranges that have proven to be pretty crappy, failing to keep their contents dry in several different environments. These include Gladware, fake Lock & Locks, fake Bison Design tubes, black & grey film cans, prescription medicine bottles and Altoids tins. Yes, there are rare exceptions, but the point is that they usually suck, not that they always suck. With that in mind, my first bit of advice is to use a quality container, regardless of size. Match safes can be bought at Wally World for $0.88, preforms run about $0.60 each. Heck, even the venerable ammo can can be hidden for about $20, including the price of swag.

 

One thing that many folks complain about when the topic of power trails comes up is the copy/paste feel of the whole experience. By the time they get to the 4th or 5th one, they feel like they are immersed in mindless repetition because the cache pages are often identical except for the title. This can get boring very fast. By creating a unique cache page for each of your hides, you will strike a blow against banality. Another complaint that comes up is one you've already addressed, which is the mindless hide techniques so often utilized in creating power trails. Kudos to you, sir, for envisioning a power trail that takes actual searching to find. Lastly, one other complaint that comes up with regards to power trails is uninspired locations. Were I to create a power trail, I would make sure that each location was unique enough to justify, (to my own biased caching aesthetic), the existence of a cache. This would likely require that my hides often be farther than 529' apart, but I'm OK with that. To my quirky sense, a cache should bring someone to a place worth stopping at.

 

(please feel free to ignore this, or respond with overt hostility if 60 is not a sufficient number of hides for me to have an opinion)

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I, too, probably interpreted the sign the log literally. IMO, signing means using a writing utensil. Perhaps the guideline could be more specific or I guess you could burn your geonic into a log. I suppose you could make a stained glass windo of your name and glue it to the log.

 

Alos, replaced the cache in the original location. Almost impossible to be EXACT. Maybe it should read place it as close as possible to the original location.

 

We could go all day with semantics.

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