Death by GPS

6k · January 31, 2011

Article in Sacramento Bee today.

January 31, 2011

That's terrible

January 31, 2011

Don't always trust your GPS!

January 31, 2011

I've always said "Technology is a wonderful tool, until it breaks. The best GPS anyone will ever own is the one between their ears. It's just a shame that so many aren't willing to put out the extra effort to use it.

January 31, 2011

Article in Sacramento Bee today.

Death by GPS

Most definately a tragic story and unfortunately there are likely more to come because of the false sense of security surrounding a GPS, especially in a rental car.

It occurs to me that the most likely end to a story of this nature involves a legal suit, perhaps many legal suits that will eventually limit access of navigational GPS routes to urban areas and major highways. Which will be unfortunate for travelers not familiar with local roads. They will have to rely on the maps available at grocery stores and filling stations and by asking directions.

Unless GPS routes are somehow protected by law and therefore immune to the legal system in this country (and others) there will be changes coming.

Cheers,

Allen

2k · January 31, 2011

would have read the article but not going to register to do so. If you would be willing to cut and paste the salient parts, might be beneficial. Have certainly heard of folks taking roads their GPS pointed them but those roads were long out of commission.

Cant trust your City Navigator or GPS to be the most accurate, its a tool. Course, I have not read the article so cant respond specifically to what happened here.

2.4k · January 31, 2011

A sad tale... and increasingly more common. One reads about people driving into rivers trying to cross non existant bridges, over snow blocked pass roads and so on...

I see Geocaching as probably the best way to avoid these situations... cachers are learning the capabilities and limits of their GPS units. Granted we are having some fun there as well. More and more SAR units are using Geocaching to train up their people as well.

Which is useful, since many of the people who wander the wilds these days are also cachers... there have been incidents of cachers finding lost travelers as well...

Lets be careful out there!

Doug 7rxc

2.4k · January 31, 2011

would have read the article but not going to register to do so. If you would be willing to cut and paste the salient parts, might be beneficial. Have certainly heard of folks taking roads their GPS pointed them but those roads were long out of commission.

Cant trust your City Navigator or GPS to be the most accurate, its a tool. Course, I have not read the article so cant respond specifically to what happened here.

I just got off of the site... DID NOT require any log in, it's just an online article... commenting there would likely require signing up, but not reading... just click it and read.

I suppose it could be a local restriction on your computer or provider...

Doug 7rxc

Edited January 31, 2011 by 7rxc

4.3k · January 31, 2011

Death by GPS? Let's call it what it is: Death by misadventure. Death by poor planning. Death by stupidity.

Death Valley didn't get its name because tourists started flocking there in recent years with easy access to GPS. And for every ill-prepared, unwise person who has lost their way because they misread or naively trusted a GPS, I'd wager there have been many, many more trips enhanced and lives SAVED by the correct use of a GPS. In Death Valley and elsewhere.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Portland Cyclist

1.7k · January 31, 2011

Death by GPS? Let's call it what it is: Death by misadventure. Death by poor planning. Death by stupidity.

Exactly.

1.5k · January 31, 2011

Sadly, most people today don't take the time to learn how to read a map, or even buy one. There have been similar stories about people in OR following their GPS into the mountains, and tried to keep going even though the road was covered with snow and not plowed. Common sense seems to have disappeared.

1.7k · January 31, 2011

I got stopped by a huge puddle (mini-pond?) completely covering the road while I was out caching yesterday. I couldn't tell how deep it was, and I didn't want to risk driving through it. I also parked the car on a dirt minimum maintenance road, and walked .35 miles over the snowcovered part of it to find a cache, rather than risk getting stuck.

But then I own a little hondacar, and I've gotten more careful over the years (ever since I got onto some ATV trails in Vegas and nearly crashed the car) - fortunately, it didn't take anything fatal or near fatal to scare some sense into me. So even if I feel overcautious sometimes... yeah.

4.1k · January 31, 2011

We have a cache that is near a sinkhole that has vertical walls. The sinkhole is almost 300 feet deep. We have had a geocacher comment that he finally looked up from his GPSr when he was only about 30 feet from the edge of the sinkhole. He was hiking in from the back way instead of driving in as we had suggested. He was so intent on watching the GPSr he almost found the sinkhole the hard way.

The white spot in the picture is a different person, but it gives a good perspective of the sinkhole.

Eagle%20Sink.jpg

Do not use a GPSr as your primary means of navigation!

John

4.2k · January 31, 2011

It occurs to me that the most likely end to a story of this nature involves a legal suit, perhaps many legal suits that will eventually limit access of navigational GPS routes to urban areas and major highways.

really?...like the one that tried to sue the GPS maker because while in walking mode it told him to turn right, which happened to be on a busy road and he got hit by a car....i'm sorry but that is just plain wrong to sue someone for your own stupidity...i say get those Darwin Awards out

8.3k · January 31, 2011

Death by GPS? Let's call it what it is: Death by misadventure. Death by poor planning. Death by stupidity.

Exactly.

Yes, I have to agree. I've read several articles about folks that freeze to death by following the NFS roads because the GPS routed them that way. I really have to wonder about the thought process of plowing forward through unbroken snow just because the GPS said go this way. I have to even wonder about the thought process of turning on to such a road in the first place. Apparently common sense is not common.

9.3k · January 31, 2011

i'm sorry but that is just plain wrong to sue someone for your own stupidity

And yet it happens, every single day.

As a nation, we award stupidity monetarily.

6.7k · January 31, 2011

i'm sorry but that is just plain wrong to sue someone for your own stupidity

And yet it happens, every single day.

As a nation, we award stupidity monetarily.

Scary, ain't it?

14k · January 31, 2011

Sadly, most people today don't take the time to learn how to read a map, or even buy one. There have been similar stories about people in OR following their GPS into the mountains, and tried to keep going even though the road was covered with snow and not plowed. Common sense seems to have disappeared.

The way I look at it, this isn't a GPS problem. It's a map problem. The GPS is merely using satellites and it's internal receiver to determine ones location. IF a base map on a GPS can't distinguish between a 4 lane highway and a seasonal road the routing software is going to tell you to "turn left at the next intersection" even if that road might go through rugged terrain and cross a river where a bridge had been gone for several years.

I've been looking a lots of different maps for a trip I'm taking in a few weeks. The google maps I've looked at for determining the best route between two places I'll be visiting doesn't show several of the roads that have been recommended to me by someone that lives there. The Open Street Maps I've looked at do show them. Most of the maps that I've looked at don't show the new highway that was finished last year. If GPS base maps were more accurate and kept up to date to account for changes in infrastructure (man made and environmental) there would likely be far fewer problems with people getting lost.

6.7k · January 31, 2011

Sadly, most people today don't take the time to learn how to read a map, or even buy one. There have been similar stories about people in OR following their GPS into the mountains, and tried to keep going even though the road was covered with snow and not plowed. Common sense seems to have disappeared.

The way I look at it, this isn't a GPS problem. It's a map problem. The GPS is merely using satellites and it's internal receiver to determine ones location. IF a base map on a GPS can't distinguish between a 4 lane highway and a seasonal road the routing software is going to tell you to "turn left at the next intersection" even if that road might go through rugged terrain and cross a river where a bridge had been gone for several years.

I've been looking a lots of different maps for a trip I'm taking in a few weeks. The google maps I've looked at for determining the best route between two places I'll be visiting doesn't show several of the roads that have been recommended to me by someone that lives there. The Open Street Maps I've looked at do show them. Most of the maps that I've looked at don't show the new highway that was finished last year. If GPS base maps were more accurate and kept up to date to account for changes in infrastructure (man made and environmental) there would likely be far fewer problems with people getting lost.

Perhaps. But even when maps updates are available few people actually update their GPS. In the end this boils down to someone who entered an extreme environment unprepared and then failed to recognize that fact in time to correct the problem. Still, it is tragic.

January 31, 2011

Death by GPS? Let's call it what it is: Death by misadventure. Death by poor planning. Death by stupidity.

Death Valley didn't get its name because tourists started flocking there in recent years with easy access to GPS. And for every ill-prepared, unwise person who has lost their way because they misread or naively trusted a GPS, I'd wager there have been many, many more trips enhanced and lives SAVED by the correct use of a GPS. In Death Valley and elsewhere.

+1

3.1k · January 31, 2011

We geocachers can learn something from this tragedy. If you're doing a longer hiking cache (sometimes off-trail), it's possible to get lost.

Start by waypointing the place you parked your vehicle. But even if you know where you need to go, the direct route from Point A to Point B isn't always the best route. There often are topographic maps and trail routes you can either download for free or buy. These might help you figure out a good return route. Better yet, use your GPSr's tracking feature, if it has one. And carry extra batteries.

1.2k · January 31, 2011

Just because google maps says to kayak across the Pacific to get to Japan doesn't mean you should do it.

See step 15 and 30

1.1k · January 31, 2011

My mom always asked if "All of your walked off a cliff, would You?" I quess the answer is yes if following a GPSr. :unsure:

A GPS is a tool same as a hammer or gun both of which can hurt you if used wrong. Right now I am on my way to Death Valley, a place we visit every year or two. We sightsee, geocache and drive the back roads in our 4x4. We also NEVER go out in the back country by ourselves, always carry at least 5 gallons of water, take maps and guide books and at least 3 GPSr. I have been in the same area as the victim and it is easy to get lost but by being prepared the only thing lost is a little time.

January 31, 2011

Just because google maps says to kayak across the Pacific to get to Japan doesn't mean you should do it.

See step 15 and 30

Google maps is awesome for suggesting kayaking across the Pacific. I will trust them implicitly from here on.

2.1k · January 31, 2011

Funny, though. Every time I start up my Nuvi, it makes me click on a disclaimer. I guess most people click that thing every day without ever actually reading it, or thinking about it.

14k · January 31, 2011

Just because google maps says to kayak across the Pacific to get to Japan doesn't mean you should do it.

See step 15 and 30

Google maps is awesome for suggesting kayaking across the Pacific. I will trust them implicitly from here on.

I know that you're joking but, I wouldn't. In step 15, which indicates kayaking from Seattle to Hawaii it indicates that it will take 14 days. Ed Gillet paddled a kayak from Monterey, California to Hawaii (as far as I know, the only person to kayak from the U.S. mainland to Hawaii) and ran out of food on the 60th day, but arrived in Hawaii on the 63rd day at sea.

19k · January 31, 2011

Just because google maps says to kayak across the Pacific to get to Japan doesn't mean you should do it.

See step 15 and 30

Google maps is awesome for suggesting kayaking across the Pacific. I will trust them implicitly from here on.

I know that you're joking but, I wouldn't. In step 15, which indicates kayaking from Seattle to Hawaii it indicates that it will take 14 days. Ed Gillet paddled a kayak from Monterey, California to Hawaii (as far as I know, the only person to kayak from the U.S. mainland to Hawaii) and ran out of food on the 60th day, but arrived in Hawaii on the 63rd day at sea.

Boy, was HE slow!! :blink:

19k · January 31, 2011

Funny, though. Every time I start up my Nuvi, it makes me click on a disclaimer. I guess most people click that thing every day without ever actually reading it, or thinking about it.

Do you read it and think about it every time you start it up?

January 31, 2011

My wife and I were out in the middle of South Dakota on our way to Colorado. We were trying to get to a place in Winner (middle of NOWHERE) and my GPSr (lovingly named "Blinkie") said it would take 3 hours from where we were at even though the paper map clearly showed we were no more than 70 miles away. We were going down the highway and it was telling us to turn on what can only be described as a little used cow trail over some huge hills. We just laughed at Blinkie and kept rolling. After a few seconds it recalculated our route and gave us the correct directions and it took about an hour to get into town.

Common sense should be a heckuva lot more common.

6.7k · January 31, 2011

Funny, though. Every time I start up my Nuvi, it makes me click on a disclaimer. I guess most people click that thing every day without ever actually reading it, or thinking about it.

Do you read it and think about it every time you start it up?

I do. The first three words every time and then I think about how annoying the whole thing is.

6.7k · January 31, 2011

My wife and I were out in the middle of South Dakota on our way to Colorado. We were trying to get to a place in Winner (middle of NOWHERE) and my GPSr (lovingly named "Blinkie") said it would take 3 hours from where we were at even though the paper map clearly showed we were no more than 70 miles away. We were going down the highway and it was telling us to turn on what can only be described as a little used cow trail over some huge hills. We just laughed at Blinkie and kept rolling. After a few seconds it recalculated our route and gave us the correct directions and it took about an hour to get into town.

Common sense should be a heckuva lot more common.

I often override the nuvi. My wife gets annoyed when she hears "recalculating" for like the fifth or sixth time. "Why did you buy that thing if you aren't gonna listen to it?"

2.1k · January 31, 2011

Funny, though. Every time I start up my Nuvi, it makes me click on a disclaimer. I guess most people click that thing every day without ever actually reading it, or thinking about it.

Do you read it and think about it every time you start it up?

No. I read it and thought about it the first time I saw it. I'm reminded of it every time I start it up.

January 31, 2011

Sad story, poor kid.

I have a GPS on my phone that I never use. One day I decided that since I had it I might as well figure it out. I used it to navigate to a post office that I go to quite a bit but for fun was following the gps until it tried to get me to turn the wrong way on a one-way street. oops

sort of explains some odd driving I've seen in the area

Sort of off topic but on the subject of lawsuits, there was a 16 year old kid who stowed away on a plan bound for Boston. When the landing gear dropped his then lifeless body was dumped out into a residential area. Naturally his parents sued the airline, airport, and whomever else they could think of because it couldn't have been his own fault that he slipped through some fence and snuck into the landing gear of an airplane.

3.1k · January 31, 2011

We were trying to get to a place in Winner (middle of NOWHERE) and my GPSr...said it would take 3 hours

We were driving through southern Utah. We had just found a cache, and the next one was 7 miles down the highway but across a county line. Our Nuvi sometimes has problems with county lines. In this case, it suggested a detour that looped around 300 miles. No, thanks.

19k · January 31, 2011

I often override the nuvi. My wife gets annoyed when she hears "recalculating" for like the fifth or sixth time. "Why did you buy that thing if you aren't gonna listen to it?"

I override the Nuvi voice itself sometimes. Garmin offers a free utility called Garmin Voice that allows you to create your own voice files. It gives you the phrase, and you speak it into a microphone. But you don't NEED to use the suggested phrase. "Recalculating" is now, "What the &@*%! Where ARE we?"

While I was looking for that Garmin Voice link, I found something that our old friend, Pinehurst should get:

7k · January 31, 2011

I often override the nuvi. My wife gets annoyed when she hears "recalculating" for like the fifth or sixth time. "Why did you buy that thing if you aren't gonna listen to it?"

That's why we switched to a TomTom. No more annoying "recalculating"

19k · January 31, 2011

A sad tale... and increasingly more common. One reads about people driving into rivers trying to cross non existant bridges, over snow blocked pass roads and so on...

I believe some of the stories, like this one (and the snow-blocked pass one of a few years back), but I suspect there are a lot more urban legends than true stories.

6.7k · January 31, 2011

I often override the nuvi. My wife gets annoyed when she hears "recalculating" for like the fifth or sixth time. "Why did you buy that thing if you aren't gonna listen to it?"

That's why we switched to a TomTom. No more annoying "recalculating"

If and when the nuvi dies I will consider another. Bought a couple of TomToms for Christmas presents this year.

1.2k · January 31, 2011

I often override the nuvi. My wife gets annoyed when she hears "recalculating" for like the fifth or sixth time. "Why did you buy that thing if you aren't gonna listen to it?"

I muted the Nuvi within a month. Driving is a lot less stressful without that thing yelling at me when I decide the route it says is not great. I always try to look at the overhead view to see what it's doing. Mine usually does something weird at the end.

19k · January 31, 2011

I often override the nuvi. My wife gets annoyed when she hears "recalculating" for like the fifth or sixth time. "Why did you buy that thing if you aren't gonna listen to it?"

I muted the Nuvi within a month. Driving is a lot less stressful without that thing yelling at me when I decide the route it says is not great. I always try to look at the overhead view to see what it's doing. Mine usually does something weird at the end.

You should consider recording your own voice track.

I love it when "she" announces that you have arrived at the cache and attempts to pronounce not only the GC number, but the name of the cache and the difficulty and terrain rating all as one word!

1.2k · January 31, 2011

The 200 (AFAIK) only says distance and left or right, and I'm thankfull for that. I've ridden with other cachers whose nuvi reads everything. While occasionally funny it's more often annoying.

2.1k · January 31, 2011

38.2k · January 31, 2011

I can see how it can happen, particularly to those who think GPS units are foolproof. I'm fully aware of the limitations and still almost got stuck in the middle of nowhere.

I was driving in Vermont trying to return from geocaching around Bennington to my brother's house near Mt Snow in the winter. Taking the back roads cuts the trip nearly in half.

Thing is that some of these back roads are plowed, some aren't and some are just plain closed. Some are partially plowed. You can drive for 3-4 miles and all of sudden the plowing ends (probably the town border or something) but you will often see tire tracks continue through the unplowed snow. Most of these roads are dirt.

The GPS took us on one of the plowed dirt roads which we followed for several miles, then road conditions deteriorated, slowly enough to be almost imperceptible, but soon we're driving in hub deep snow but there are other tire tracks in it so we figure we'd be able to get through.

Then it started getting even worse. There was ice under the snow and it took all of my concentration to keep the car on the road and moving. The GPS showed a main road not far ahead, maybe a mile and a half (well we were hoping it was a plowed main road). Turning around was not an option. Even if we could find a section of the road wide enough to turn around, stopping to make a turn would have guaranteed we'd get stuck. So we had to keep moving forward. So we continued - and got stuck.

It was getting dark. Temps were in single digits and dropping. Luckily I had a shovel and the car has manual transmission so I was able to dig,then rock the car enough to get it going. Took about a half hour though. But we continued. About a half mile later we found another vehicle stuck. We stopped briefly to see if we could help but they said a tow truck was on the way and they were fine. They confirmed that the road ahead was plowed because they had come from that direction. And we got stuck again because I had stopped, but with their help we were on our way in a couple of minutes.

Getting our wheels back on a a plowed road was quite a relief.

When I mentioned our ordeal to my brother he said, no way you should have gone that way this time of year.

1.7k · January 31, 2011

My wife and I were out in the middle of South Dakota on our way to Colorado. We were trying to get to a place in Winner (middle of NOWHERE) and my GPSr (lovingly named "Blinkie") said it would take 3 hours from where we were at even though the paper map clearly showed we were no more than 70 miles away. We were going down the highway and it was telling us to turn on what can only be described as a little used cow trail over some huge hills. We just laughed at Blinkie and kept rolling. After a few seconds it recalculated our route and gave us the correct directions and it took about an hour to get into town.

Common sense should be a heckuva lot more common.

My nuvi, Claire (she has an Australian accent), tends to get confused a lot up around Valentine, NE. Like the time she told me "Turn right on road." Since I was in the middle of an overpass bridge, I courteously declined her advice.

Or her constant "turn right on Cowboy Trail". I would have been happy to, but I doubt the bikers on that particular hike-bike rails-to-trail path would have been as happy.

19k · January 31, 2011

I can see how it can happen, particularly to those who think GPS units are foolproof. I'm fully aware of the limitations and still almost got stuck in the middle of nowhere.

I was driving in Vermont trying to return from geocaching around Bennington to my brother's house near Mt Snow in the winter. Taking the back roads cuts the trip nearly in half.

Thing is that some of these back roads are plowed, some aren't and some are just plain closed. Some are partially plowed. You can drive for 3-4 miles and all of sudden the plowing ends (probably the town border or something) but you will often see tire tracks continue through the unplowed snow. Most of these roads are dirt.

The GPS took us on one of the plowed dirt roads which we followed for several miles, then road conditions deteriorated, slowly enough to be almost imperceptible, but soon we're driving in hub deep snow but there are other tire tracks in it so we figure we'd be able to get through.

Then it started getting even worse. There was ice under the snow and it took all of my concentration to keep the car on the road and moving. The GPS showed a main road not far ahead, maybe a mile and a half (well we were hoping it was a plowed main road). Turning around was not an option. Even if we could find a section of the road wide enough to turn around, stopping to make a turn would have guaranteed we'd get stuck. So we had to keep moving forward. So we continued - and got stuck.

It was getting dark. Temps were in single digits and dropping. Luckily I had a shovel and the car has manual transmission so I was able to dig,then rock the car enough to get it going. Took about a half hour though. But we continued. About a half mile later we found another vehicle stuck. We stopped briefly to see if we could help but they said a tow truck was on the way and they were fine. They confirmed that the road ahead was plowed because they had come from that direction. And we got stuck again because I had stopped, but with their help we were on our way in a couple of minutes.

Getting our wheels back on a a plowed road was quite a relief.

When I mentioned our ordeal to my brother he said, no way you should have gone that way this time of year.

Maps have done the same thing to me, though.

38.2k · January 31, 2011

I can see how it can happen, particularly to those who think GPS units are foolproof. I'm fully aware of the limitations and still almost got stuck in the middle of nowhere...When I mentioned our ordeal to my brother he said, no way you should have gone that way this time of year.

Maps have done the same thing to me, though.

True.

38.2k · January 31, 2011

I'm just waiting for a GPS that comes out using Google map data. That will be a disaster. I've found dozens of errors near where I live. Powerline cuts, hiking trails and dirt roads that haven't seen vehicular traffic in 50 years being listed as roads. Often these Google "roads" provide connections between major real roads, or at least appear to.

6.7k · January 31, 2011

I often override the nuvi. My wife gets annoyed when she hears "recalculating" for like the fifth or sixth time. "Why did you buy that thing if you aren't gonna listen to it?"

I muted the Nuvi within a month. Driving is a lot less stressful without that thing yelling at me when I decide the route it says is not great. I always try to look at the overhead view to see what it's doing. Mine usually does something weird at the end.

I probably shouldn't admit this but I once drove the opposite way at every turn just to make her say it. Hey, I'm comfortable in my insanity.

2.1k · January 31, 2011

I'm just waiting for a GPS that comes out using Google map data. That will be a disaster. I've found dozens of errors near where I live. Powerline cuts, hiking trails and dirt roads that haven't seen vehicular traffic in 50 years being listed as roads. Often these Google "roads" provide connections between major real roads, or at least appear to.

I see a lot of those around here, too. The funny thing is, that if you look at the county GIS system, you see those same "roads." I think that's where Google is getting their data, since it would also be the source for property lines that show on the Google maps. They appear to be rights-of-way for roads that were never actually built.

15.3k · January 31, 2011

Yeah, searching Google Images for "your gps is wrong" returns interesting results...

Death by GPS

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