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Totally Blank online log Support


StarBrand

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Like I said before, I think totally blank logs are great as long as they don't show up in my PQs. Because they impart almost zero information.

With respect, you'll probably have to keep on saying that, because it's nonsense. A "found" log might have blank text, but it records that the cache was found, along with the date. Pretty important information, at the side of which a few lines thanking you for providing cache #7 of 16 seems rather trivial.

 

But can someone explain why I can't simply record a find if I want to?

 

I've set over 100 caches and I'm perfectly content for people to write their logs in whatever way they see fit. As long as they're accurate, who cares what comments people write in their logs? The comments are primarily for the finders. Perhaps they just want a note that they found a cache. So why not let them?

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As long as they're accurate, who cares what comments people write in their logs? The comments are primarily for the finders. Perhaps they just want a note that they found a cache. So why not let them?

 

I'm a bit torn on this. I agree that no finder should be forced to write more than they want. But also, I think in general, writing logs is a good thing, and makes the game better. Not only for the finder to have a record, but to share more details of their experience with others.

 

These getting started finding tips Finding agrees with this, stating:

 

"When you get home, log your experience online by going back to that cache page and using the links provided. The cache owner is automatically notified of your log and is always happy to know about your adventure, the condition of their cache, and any environmental factors. Upload photos to share your experience visually with other geocachers."

 

As I said previously, there is no real difference in value between a blank log and one which says "TFTC" or similar. And the change is unlikely to have any large immediate effect, experienced caches who like to write logs will continue to write them; those who don't may decide to submit a blank log rather than "TFTC" or ".".

 

But I think it sends the wrong message to new cachers. Forcing you to put something in the box sends the message that you should write something if you can. Allowing blank logs sends the message that writing any comments is optional. To me. it makes comments seem to be considered less important.

 

I prefer the old way, and I think over time this change may result in more people not writing any text, and I don't think that overall that's good for the game.

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...

The comments are primarily for the finders. Perhaps they just want a note that they found a cache. So why not let them?

I strongly disagree. As a cache owner, I gain lots of valuable information from the logs. This includes cache condition, condtion of the area, contents of the cache, hide style changed, needs maintenance, might be missing, might need moved a bit, Things I can do to make future hides more enjoyable, etc...

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A recent Gallup poll showed these reasons for blank logs

 

16.13% new/misuse app

18.27% It means they didn't like the hide for some reason bad coords/wet log/bad area/lame etc...

.83% can't write a log

64.77% Lazy/leaches

 

Not my numbers, I'm just reporting the facts

 

edit: I actually meant to put the / between lazy and leaches. I mean the Gallup Poll did.

Edited by M 5
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From http://www.geocaching.com/about/default.aspx :

 

Easy Steps to Geocaching

  1. Register for a free Basic Membership.
  2. Click "Hide & Seek a Cache."
  3. Enter your postal code and click "search."
  4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.
  5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.
  6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.
  7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.
  8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

I'm trying to comprehend how leaving an empty log fits into #8.

Edited by dakboy
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From http://www.geocaching.com/about/default.aspx :

 

Easy Steps to Geocaching

  1. Register for a free Basic Membership.
  2. Click "Hide & Seek a Cache."
  3. Enter your postal code and click "search."
  4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.
  5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.
  6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.
  7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.
  8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

I'm trying to comprehend how leaving an empty log fits into #8.

Apparently, those aren't hard and fast rules, which is not a surprise to many of us. I've been violating #1 for quite a while. In fact, I've violated every one of those at least once.

Edited by Dinoprophet
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From http://www.geocaching.com/about/default.aspx :

 

Easy Steps to Geocaching

  1. Register for a free Basic Membership.
  2. Click "Hide & Seek a Cache."
  3. Enter your postal code and click "search."
  4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.
  5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.
  6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.
  7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.
  8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

I'm trying to comprehend how leaving an empty log fits into #8.

Apparently, those aren't hard and fast rules, which is not a surprise to many of us. I've been violating #1 for quite a while. In fact, I've violated every one of those at least once.

 

I never presented them as rules, or even guidelines. My point is that if Groundspeak is describing writing logs as part of the geocaching experience, shouldn't they promote the idea of writing logs throughout the site?

 

Otherwise, #8 is really "log your find online", not "share stories."

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It just struck me that the 2nd 10 years of Geocaching might have some difficulty with the "lost & found" stories of geocaching if blank logs really catch on.

My hope is that the people who have stories to tell will keep telling those stories.

 

My fear is that the people who are good at telling stories will stop caching (and/or logging) altogether.

Edited by dakboy
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From http://www.geocaching.com/about/default.aspx :

 

Easy Steps to Geocaching

  1. Register for a free Basic Membership.
  2. Click "Hide & Seek a Cache."
  3. Enter your postal code and click "search."
  4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.
  5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.
  6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.
  7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.
  8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

I'm trying to comprehend how leaving an empty log fits into #8.

Apparently, those aren't hard and fast rules, which is not a surprise to many of us. I've been violating #1 for quite a while. In fact, I've violated every one of those at least once.

 

I never presented them as rules, or even guidelines. My point is that if Groundspeak is describing writing logs as part of the geocaching experience, shouldn't they promote the idea of writing logs throughout the site?

 

Otherwise, #8 is really "log your find online", not "share stories."

Sorry. Usually when people pull those out they're arguing what the Rules are.

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From http://www.geocaching.com/about/default.aspx :

 

Easy Steps to Geocaching

  1. Register for a free Basic Membership.
  2. Click "Hide & Seek a Cache."
  3. Enter your postal code and click "search."
  4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.
  5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.
  6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.
  7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.
  8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

I'm trying to comprehend how leaving an empty log fits into #8.

Apparently, those aren't hard and fast rules, which is not a surprise to many of us. I've been violating #1 for quite a while. In fact, I've violated every one of those at least once.

 

I never presented them as rules, or even guidelines. My point is that if Groundspeak is describing writing logs as part of the geocaching experience, shouldn't they promote the idea of writing logs throughout the site?

 

Otherwise, #8 is really "log your find online", not "share stories."

Sorry. Usually when people pull those out they're arguing what the Rules are.

I'm arguing Groundspeak's consistency. In "getting started" they tell people to share stories online. I think a lot of people here agree that this is good.

 

Elsewhere (as demonstrated in this thread), Groundspeak is saying "forget it, go ahead and write nothing, we don't care anymore and neither should any of you."

 

So which is it? Are we sharing experiences, or are we getting smileys? For all the noise about it not being a competition and not being about the numbers, Groundspeak's position on empty logs sure seems to encourage logging for numbers.

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...

The comments are primarily for the finders. Perhaps they just want a note that they found a cache. So why not let them?

I strongly disagree. As a cache owner, I gain lots of valuable information from the logs. This includes cache condition, condtion of the area, contents of the cache, hide style changed, needs maintenance, might be missing, might need moved a bit, Things I can do to make future hides more enjoyable, etc...

You get all that from "TFTC"? ;)

 

Actually, the log is primarily for the cacher, but I omitted to say that it certainly has a use for people looking for the cache later. Even if it says, "Easy find"; at least if you see that when you're struggling with the find you can disregard climbing the tree, checking all the drainpipes out of reach or clambering over the wall.

 

If the cache owner also finds some comments useful then so much the better.

 

I still can't get my head around some of the grief on show here. So someone decides that they prefer just to log "Found" or "DNF". How is that worse than if they visit the cache area but record nothing? Why do we have artificial (and unwritten) rules that spoil the game the way some people prefer to play? Why should the cache owner's wishes trump the seeker's? Both are equally important.

 

Answers on a postcard, marked "Unecessary forum grief".

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It is amsuing to hear all the you should be understanding of how others prefer to play rhetoric , while at the same time the same bleeding hearts don't want to hear about an opposing way. Pretty contradicting to me.

Edited by M 5
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I think it is fine policy.

A cache owner can not delete my log for the words that I write as long as those words do don't violate any guidelines. So it seems only logical that a cache owner can not delete my log for words that I don't write.

 

Not everyone plays the game the same way or for the same reasons. Some people like writing logs, some people don't. It is not practical to force one way to enjoy the game over another.

 

If you enjoy getting longer logs, treasure the long logs you will still receive and don't worry about the empty ones. If your cache is of high quality some people will still write nice logs.

 

Well, I'm commenting on post #2 before reading the other 100 or so ahead of it, but I have to say, as uninspired as a cache may be, I will at least write the word, "Thanks...". It may have been a carpy cache, but at least they are trying. I don't agree with blank logs, but I have learned through my last job that everything usually falls to the lowest common denominator. If people are posting a single "." for their logs, we may as well just them leave 'em blank. BTW, I've used "." on logs. Lofs for my own coins that I'm taking back from an event.

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Makes me want to archive any of my caches that are so blessed.

If it's not worthy of SOME SORT of comment, then what's the point?

 

So why don't you archive them then?

 

Seriously, if for you personally the fun in hiding caches is reading the resulting log messages, and those log messages aren't living up to your expectations, why *wouldn't* you archive them?

 

If, on the other hand, you hide caches for other reasons (for example, simply because you like the idea of others finding something you've hidden, or because you enjoy finding caches and this is a way of giving back), then I suggest taking the advice of some other posters to enjoy the good logs and simply ignore the rest.

 

Other people aren't responsible for your happiness.

 

** Comments here are directed as much at the general audience as at AZcachemeister; please don't think they are personal.

 

EVERY DAY I have to decide whether to keep each of the caches I've hidden, or perhaps let them go.

I hide caches that others will hopefully enjoy. If they're not enjoying them, why should I put out the effort to maintain them?

 

Caches that 'attract' blank logs will indeed move up on my 'to be archived' list.

 

I had a cache once that was entirely about outlandish/impossible trades, I'll Trade Ya!.

It got archived when the 'funny factor' started waning...people just didn't get it.

 

P.S. It reads like an ALR, but I NEVER deleted any logs that didn't measure up to my excessive and overbearing standards.

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If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

Only the sound of EvilTree sobbing. :)

 

And by the way this tree did fell yeterday down a hill side while caching and It did made a sound...sobbing... No... but there where other sounds I cant repeat here....wasnt pretty...

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I recently archived a 9 year old cache that still had the original logbook. It is very interesting how much that has changed. The early hand written logs fill up entire pages in some instances and nearly always at least a half page. The logs generally got shorter and shorter, but it wasn't until about 2009 where the single line logs started.

 

 

Speaking as a new cacher, honestly, it never occurred to me to write anything more than name and date in the physical logbook. Because that's all I've seen, really. It seems like the single line physical log is standard procedure, while the online log is the place to put something more detailed.

 

Part of the problem, I think, is cache sizes. I only have around 80 finds so far, but I'll bet I can count the ammo cans or other "regular" sized caches on one hand. Most have been micros, a few smalls thrown in for good measure. Who wants to write a thoughtful paragraph and take up valuable space on a tiny slip of paper to be stuffed in a magnetic key holder? A simple name and date, then, on the paper log, and write something more substantial in the online log where everyone can see it.

 

Related to the proliferation of micros is the locations where they are usually found. Urban or suburban hides, mostly, at least around here. If you're out in the middle of the woods you might have the privacy and time to sit down and write a few well thought out lines in the log book. But if you're having to use some stealth and try not to attract too much attention, and the log looks like something that came out of a fortune cookie :rolleyes: , you're going to be expedient in signing the log and replacing the cache.

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. . . and write something more substantial in the online log where everyone can see it.

I would rather have the log online where it can be downloaded and read anywhere by anyone.

 

The paper log may be lost or ruined, but the online log will last as long as the site does, or longer if someone keeps a digital copy.

 

So, even if there is a huge book of blank pages, I will not write more than a line or two in there. Sometimes I will add a photograph or two to the online log, but I cannot draw very well, so the paper log will go without pictures. Sorry if you were hoping for a nice physical log book, with neat handwriting from my fountain pen and a wax seal with my family crest.

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I recently archived a 9 year old cache that still had the original logbook. It is very interesting how much that has changed. The early hand written logs fill up entire pages in some instances and nearly always at least a half page. The logs generally got shorter and shorter, but it wasn't until about 2009 where the single line logs started.

 

 

Speaking as a new cacher, honestly, it never occurred to me to write anything more than name and date in the physical logbook. Because that's all I've seen, really. It seems like the single line physical log is standard procedure, while the online log is the place to put something more detailed.

 

I only put my name and date in the physical log. I share my experiences online.

 

And remember in the early days cachers would drive across state (country) to find that one new cache that was placed. That was the only one around so they probably took a lot more time at that one cache.

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I recently archived a 9 year old cache that still had the original logbook. It is very interesting how much that has changed. The early hand written logs fill up entire pages in some instances and nearly always at least a half page. The logs generally got shorter and shorter, but it wasn't until about 2009 where the single line logs started.

 

 

Speaking as a new cacher, honestly, it never occurred to me to write anything more than name and date in the physical logbook. Because that's all I've seen, really. It seems like the single line physical log is standard procedure, while the online log is the place to put something more detailed.

 

I only put my name and date in the physical log. I share my experiences online.

 

And remember in the early days cachers would drive across state (country) to find that one new cache that was placed. That was the only one around so they probably took a lot more time at that one cache.

 

Even in the day when people wrote longer paper logs, mine were somewhat brief. No more that 4-5 sentences. I shared my experiences in a more lengthy manner in my online logs. I still write 4-5 sentence paper logs (micros excepted of course), but at one time my logs stuck out because they were the shorter ones in the log book. Now they stick out as the longer logs.

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Walking out into the woods to find a cache in a lonely site I used to very much enjoy reading the log book. It was a part of what was fun about caching. Now days all you see is a few hurried scribbles or a sticker. Even the online logs are lacking today. People seem to be in such a hurry that we get lots of acronyms and cut and paste copies of the days score. "14 of 45 while numbers caching the area with So&SoWhat" Yeah, I know. You said the same thing on four of my other caches today. Did you happen to see that historic marker or notice the sunset over the lake? No, probably not. You were too busy rushing from cache to cache. Seems we can spot the nano from fifty feet away but can't see the world as we're passing by, noses stuck to the compass screen of our GPS. ".1 miles that way"

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Walking out into the woods to find a cache in a lonely site I used to very much enjoy reading the log book. It was a part of what was fun about caching. Now days all you see is a few hurried scribbles or a sticker. Even the online logs are lacking today. People seem to be in such a hurry that we get lots of acronyms and cut and paste copies of the days score. "14 of 45 while numbers caching the area with So&SoWhat" Yeah, I know. You said the same thing on four of my other caches today. Did you happen to see that historic marker or notice the sunset over the lake? No, probably not. You were too busy rushing from cache to cache. Seems we can spot the nano from fifty feet away but can't see the world as we're passing by, noses stuck to the compass screen of our GPS. ".1 miles that way"

 

Wow - I couldn't have said it better.......

 

My wife and I used to sit down and browse through the logs and read where people were from and who traded what and how much fun the short walk was and just look at the view. All the while, our young ones careful browsed through the swag. We would take few minutes to place the cache back with care and stroll back to the car. Not much to read for a couple of year's now. No matter where the cache is - unless the logbook and cache is older.

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While browsing in a anarchist bookstore recently, I noticed a magazine called "Found". It has a collection of random odd notes and pictures that people find during the course of the day on the street, subway, at work, or anywhere, and send in. In one magazine, there was someone that purchased some old furniture from the OSC (Office of Special Councel, I believe) and they discovered a magnetized box stuck underneath. Inside were notes and messages dated from 1981-1988 from random people that happened to discover the "secret" box. It was fairly interesting. A few people just signed and dated when they found it, but most left detailed messages for whoever discovered the box in the future. I suppose that if everyone just signed and dated it, it would be a bit boring and strange, as mostly everyone would not know who the person was, much like some weird hidden grafitti. :lol:

 

When I open a cache and see just a list of names, its like "so what"? The cache owner is likely never going to audit, or verify whoever found it, and others may only recognise just a few "tags". :rolleyes:

 

If there is plenty of room in the logbook, write something, even if it's just a sentence. Draw a picture if you can. :P

 

iamagigglebug.jpg

 

bobtheexternalorgan.gif

 

eatresponsibly.jpg

 

joey.jpg

 

wedreallyliketokeepnancy.jpg

 

benefits.jpg

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While browsing in a anarchist bookstore recently, I noticed a magazine called "Found". It has a collection of random odd notes and pictures that people find during the course of the day on the street, subway, at work, or anywhere, and send in. In one magazine, there was someone that purchased some old furniture from the OSC (Office of Special Councel, I believe) and they discovered a magnetized box stuck underneath. Inside were notes and messages dated from 1981-1988 from random people that happened to discover the "secret" box. It was fairly interesting. A few people just signed and dated when they found it, but most left detailed messages for whoever discovered the box in the future. I suppose that if everyone just signed and dated it, it would be a bit boring and strange, as mostly everyone would not know who the person was, much like some weird hidden grafitti. :lol:

 

When I open a cache and see just a list of names, its like "so what"? The cache owner is likely never going to audit, or verify whoever found it, and others may only recognise just a few "tags". :rolleyes:

 

If there is plenty of room in the logbook, write something, even if it's just a sentence. Draw a picture if you can. :P

 

iamagigglebug.jpg

 

bobtheexternalorgan.gif

 

eatresponsibly.jpg

 

joey.jpg

 

wedreallyliketokeepnancy.jpg

 

benefits.jpg

 

Super interesting. Thre is something so intriguing about this form of human connection. It reminds me of our Arboretum Letterbox hide. It was hidden in a large hollow tree, on the trail, in a forest rhododendrum area. Lasted for years until the tree collapsed. During that time, because of it's close proximity to the trail, it was stumbled upon by a few muggles. They left notes:

 

34arboretum.jpg

 

37arboretum.jpg

 

22arboretum.jpg

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While browsing in a anarchist bookstore recently, I noticed a magazine called "Found". It has a collection of random odd notes and pictures that people find during the course of the day on the street, subway, at work, or anywhere, and send in. In one magazine, there was someone that purchased some old furniture from the OSC (Office of Special Councel, I believe) and they discovered a magnetized box stuck underneath. Inside were notes and messages dated from 1981-1988 from random people that happened to discover the "secret" box. It was fairly interesting. A few people just signed and dated when they found it, but most left detailed messages for whoever discovered the box in the future. I suppose that if everyone just signed and dated it, it would be a bit boring and strange, as mostly everyone would not know who the person was, much like some weird hidden grafitti. :lol:

 

When I open a cache and see just a list of names, its like "so what"? The cache owner is likely never going to audit, or verify whoever found it, and others may only recognise just a few "tags". :rolleyes:

 

If there is plenty of room in the logbook, write something, even if it's just a sentence. Draw a picture if you can. :P

 

 

Super interesting. Thre is something so intriguing about this form of human connection. It reminds me of our Arboretum Letterbox hide. It was hidden in a large hollow tree, on the trail, in a forest rhododendrum area. Lasted for years until the tree collapsed. During that time, because of it's close proximity to the trail, it was stumbled upon by a few muggles. They left notes:

 

 

Yes, sometimes the notes written by muggles who find a cache accidentally are the most interesting. I wonder what they think if there is no stash note? - Who are these secret graffiti artists? - Why doesnt anyone sign their actual name? :D

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I am a libertarian by nature. I do not believe we should force anyone to do anything. If you don't want to post a log, don't.

 

However as a cache owner, I encourage you to leave me a wonderful story about your adventures. I love to write long logs. Really Geocaching is more of a journal of my travels than anything else. I like to write long logs and I love to read long logs.

 

So I encourage new cachers from my region to do more than TFTC. Only through gentle persuasion will you turn others around. Forcing them to make a log doesn't sound like fun to me and sounds like quite a bit of work. Let people do their own thing. I just lead by example.

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16.13% new/misuse app

64.77% Lazy leaches

TPTB have made it clear that blank logs are fully supported. As such, leaving a blank log is neither a misuse of the app nor are these people 'leaches'.

TPTB do not define our opinions. As is constantly stated here, Groundspeak is just a listing service. If some of us wish to consider those that post blank logs to be leaches, it is going to happen, regardless of your protests against it.

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I am a libertarian by nature. I do not believe we should force anyone to do anything. If you don't want to post a log, don't.

 

However as a cache owner, I encourage you to leave me a wonderful story about your adventures. I love to write long logs. Really Geocaching is more of a journal of my travels than anything else. I like to write long logs and I love to read long logs.

 

So I encourage new cachers from my region to do more than TFTC. Only through gentle persuasion will you turn others around. Forcing them to make a log doesn't sound like fun to me and sounds like quite a bit of work. Let people do their own thing. I just lead by example.

 

Im not a libertarian, but I agree completely.

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16.13% new/misuse app

64.77% Lazy leaches

TPTB have made it clear that blank logs are fully supported. As such, leaving a blank log is neither a misuse of the app nor are these people 'leaches'.

TPTB do not define our opinions. As is constantly stated here, Groundspeak is just a listing service. If some of us wish to consider those that post blank logs to be leaches, it is going to happen, regardless of your protests against it.

 

The app makes it easy to post blank logs, as the log button is not an extention of the field notes, but appears underneath of it and appears to be a second option. The blank loggers are nearly all new cachers who have never used a GPS. Calling them leeches only sucks the enthusiam out of the game and only encourages new cachers to muggle caches.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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16.13% new/misuse app

64.77% Lazy leaches

TPTB have made it clear that blank logs are fully supported. As such, leaving a blank log is neither a misuse of the app nor are these people 'leaches'.

TPTB do not define our opinions. As is constantly stated here, Groundspeak is just a listing service. If some of us wish to consider those that post blank logs to be leaches, it is going to happen, regardless of your protests against it.

 

The app makes it easy to post blank logs, as the log button is not an extention of the field notes, but appears underneath of it and appears to be a second option. The blank loggers are nearly all new cachers who have never used a GPS. Calling them leeches only sucks the enthusiam out of the game and only encourages new cachers to muggle caches.

Just in case you missed it - the "App" is not really the subject of this thread - rather the acceptance of blank logs from any source whatsoever by TPTB.

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Just in case you missed it - the "App" is not really the subject of this thread - rather the acceptance of blank logs from any source whatsoever by TPTB.

 

But, in reality, it is about the app.

I just tried posting a blank log from my PC, and I wasn't surprised that the log was rejected due to no text in the comment field.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, but it's another case of inequality if you ask me.

IPhone users are 'allowed' to post blank logs, but I am FORCED to enter 'some text' when logging from my PC?

 

It's outrageous I tell you, and I hereby demand MY JEREMY-GIVEN RIGHT to post a blank log if I want!

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Come on folks. Play the game the way you like and let others play their way. Shucks, I like my fish deep fried but won't get peeved if you like yours broiled. Live and let live. :D

 

Yeah, yeah, I've heard it before. :anibad: But I see you joined in 2003, a few weeks after me. You know darn well no one was logging online with blank logs or acronym only logs back then. Not until the last year and a half, actually.

 

I'm kind of partial to "I will get you. You will pay I hope you know. I am a vampire to you. I will sneak up to you." I'm using it. :D

 

Go ahead. :D

There is plenty of strange messages out there. This was found in a bottle floating off of Montauk, NY:

 

messageinabottle.gif

 

:blink:

 

Oh, sorry, that was a few weeks ago, and I didn't see you replied to me. Lovely about the anthrax. Oh, and the Vampire stuff, if you Google it, is song lyrics by some obscure band.

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