Etiquette For Soliciting Favorite Votes

1.5k · January 21, 2011

There is nothing in the guidelines preventing the solicitation of 'Favorite' votes. But, it's possible to do something that is allowed but isn't good caching etiquette.

Now that we can vote for our 'Favorite' caches, many cache owners will want finders to give their caches 'Favorite' votes, that's human nature. However, it's also human nature to 'forget' to favorite a cache so a CO might want to want to remind the finder in some way that a favorite would be appreciated.

Here are the actions a Cache Owner might take to ensure their share of Favorite votes:

A) Do nothing. All Favorite votes received without any prompting.

B ) Include a note in the cache description thanking finders for their Favorite votes.

C) Include a note in the actual cache thanking finders for their Favorite votes.

D) Include a note in the cache description urging finders to cast a Favorite vote for the cache.

E) Include a note in the actual cache urging finders to cast a Favorite vote for the cache.

F) Send emails to previous finders asking them to cast a Favorite vote for the cache.

G) Post messages on Geocaching boards asking for Favorite votes.

H) Offering a reward of some sort for anyone who casts a Favorite vote.

As for myself, I've taken no action at this time, but have considered placing a 'thank you' in a description of a cache that had received a few votes. In the social media its common to request 'Friend' or 'Like' votes and not much is thought of the practice. However, Geocaching has it's own culture and what might be approved of in other circles, may not meet with approval here.

Without singling out individuals, what is your opinion of appropriate Cache Owner etiquette in regards to Favorite vote solicitation?

Edited January 21, 2011 by Ecylram

18.9k · January 21, 2011

Yikes.

The idea of soliciting a vote for doing anything other than placing a cache that I liked and decide to vote on by myself is simply repulsive!!

I hope it never happens.

1.2k · January 21, 2011

Answer "A" all the way. The cache should stand on its own merits, not any politicking by the owner.

Edited January 21, 2011 by cheech gang

2.9k · January 21, 2011

I think it should be left up to the cacher completely and I do not feel there should be any mention of it from a cache owner.

People are quite capable of voting for their favorites on their own.

2k · January 21, 2011

"A" is best. I could tolerate anything from A-E. F, G, and H seem horribly wrong.

January 21, 2011

I have 70 favorite points for sale.

1.5k · January 21, 2011

I have 70 favorite points for sale.

I'll put you down as a vote for 'H' then.

January 21, 2011

A for sure. B sounds reasonable.

Anything else and I would probably make a point of not favouriting that cache.

2.8k · January 21, 2011

A. Anything else is tacky.

3k · January 21, 2011

A.

And if I saw or received D to H it would more than likely persuade me to NOT add a cache to my favourites, or remove any by that CO I'd already added.

But that's just me

38.2k · January 21, 2011

And to think I was considering bribing people to favorite my caches. After reading the responses here I'm starting to think that I may be perceived as somewhat tacky if I do that.

18.9k · January 21, 2011

And to think I was considering bribing people to favorite my caches. After reading the responses here I'm starting to think that I may be perceived as somewhat tacky if I do that.

Maybe - just maybe if you handed over your 2007 Geocacher of the year title. Maybe.....

1.5k · January 21, 2011

And to think I was considering bribing people to favorite my caches. After reading the responses here I'm starting to think that I may be perceived as somewhat tacky if I do that.

It's only tacky if it's a small bribe...

or its to someone else.

3.3k · January 21, 2011

For the record, if a CO solicites me for a favorite vote, the cache will go on my black list. Even if it was the best cache on earth, it would not get a vote from me.

3.6k · January 21, 2011

I am going with "A" all the way. If you do anything else, you will get a "TFTH" log. Dont push it.

2.6k · January 21, 2011

So far I've been solicited once for a favorite vote and 3 times for Feedback votes. I find both practices distasteful.

7.4k · January 21, 2011

Anything beyond A is tacky and deserving of public scorn.

January 21, 2011

I was just about to add a note to all my cache pages saying "Vote this cache as a favourite or I'll delete your log" :laughing: :anibad:

8.6k · January 21, 2011

At an event, somewhere, sometime, someplace...

"Hi there, nice to see you again. You did our cache recently - thanks for the Favourite vote."

"Uhh. Hi. I don't think I did mark it as a Favourite... No, I didn't." :unsure:

"Oh. I thought you did. My mistake then... errr... was there anything wrong with it?"

"No. It was fine. It was...OK" :blink:

"It's just that... you know, if we can make it better so it becomes a favourite..."

"No! I mean, no... it's just... well... Oh look - I've just seen RandomCacher over there... Must just have a word with him..."

*Sidles off quickly to the other end of the room*

Please, please, may this scenario remain in my imagination and not be played out in Reality anytime soon. <_<

MrsB

7.3k · January 21, 2011

And to think I was considering bribing people to favorite my caches. After reading the responses here I'm starting to think that I may be perceived as somewhat tacky if I do that.

ahh, I think a doorway for negotiation over US Geocacher of the Year 2003 may have *finally* opened....I'll PM you...

2.1k · January 21, 2011

A for me as well.

It's not unlike the surveys I get after service at car dealerships. If they "encourage" me to respond in a particular way, that just gives me incentive to downgrade their rating.

IOW, if feel that you have to tell me that my experience was exceptionally good, you probably know that it wasn't.

January 21, 2011

I personally won't be swayed either way. While I would privately snicker and mention it to close friends. I would still vote it a favorite, if indeed it was a favorite. It probably won't make me dislike/hate the CO either. Heck, if I held everyone up to such a high standard, I'd have no friends, and if they held friends in a super high standard, I wouldn't be their friend either. I can understand it leaving a bad taste, but it doesn't change the experience of the cache itself after the fact. If it was solicited before you find it, I can see that it may help shape the experience in a negative way, but if it does to you, why would you go find it anyway.

Edited January 21, 2011 by M 5

January 21, 2011

A cache should stand on its own merits, not as the result of solicitations, however well intentioned.

6.7k · January 21, 2011

Any solicitation for favorites votes is tacky.

7.2k · January 21, 2011

I'm going to pile on to "A."

Unfortunately, even with community pressure to not solicit, folks will. Relatively few ever visit the forums, so they won't know it's frowned upon. I've already seen solicits from from the owner of a very average cache and then watched as its ranking moved up above caches that were a lot better. Needless to say I declined to provide a vote, not only because of the solicit, but also it simply wasn't near a Top 10% cache.

I'll stick with A, but I think what's going to come is all of the above.

3.8k · January 21, 2011

A cache should stand on its own merit. If I am solicited, I will for sure NOT give it my Favorite. But I also think Blacklisting the cache is extreme. Blacklisting speaks as much about you as it does about the cache owner asking for votes.

6.7k · January 21, 2011

A cache should stand on its own merit. If I am solicited, I will for sure NOT give it my Favorite. But I also think Blacklisting the cache is extreme. Blacklisting speaks as much about you as it does about the cache owner asking for votes.

I may be missing a meaning here. I would think that in the context of this conversation that "I will for sure NOT give it my Favorite" would constitute a so called black listing of a cache. What did you think it meant.

3.8k · January 21, 2011

A cache should stand on its own merit. If I am solicited, I will for sure NOT give it my Favorite. But I also think Blacklisting the cache is extreme. Blacklisting speaks as much about you as it does about the cache owner asking for votes.

I may be missing a meaning here. I would think that in the context of this conversation that "I will for sure NOT give it my Favorite" would constitute a so called black listing of a cache. What did you think it meant.

Using the language "Blacklisting" in place of "Not my favorite" to me have to different meanings. The latter indicates not favoriting and moving on. Blacklisting indicates some call to action to make sure it gets no votes. One in the same, but one is more extreme.

So your blurrying of meanings is just subtle forum tactic used to call someone to the carpet. Bottom line is, I don't care what you do. I fundamentally agree with you and it is my opinion that use of the term Blacklist is extreme.

15.3k · January 21, 2011

I haven't received solicitations for favorites votes yet, but I know people who have.

If I were to receive a solicitation, my first thought would be to revoke any votes for the CO's caches, and to never vote for any of the CO's caches in the future.

However, on second thought, I think that's unfair to cache seekers who might enjoy the CO's caches, and who use favorites votes to find caches they may enjoy. But at that point, the solicitation becomes part of the cache experience, so I wouldn't vote for the CO's caches unless they were still favorites of mine despite the solicitation.

January 21, 2011

As for myself, I've taken no action at this time, but have considered placing a 'thank you' in a description of a cache that had received a few votes.

I also prefer that the owner does nothing to "influence" me. At the very least, please do not send me a message or offer prizes.

That said, I think it would be fine if your cache already has some favorite votes, then you may express gratitude on the cache page. That is polite behavior.

The best and simplest way to get a lot of favorite votes is to create a cache that people really love!

Edited January 21, 2011 by kpanko

7.2k · January 21, 2011

I think one thing that can be done on Groundspeak's part is to encourage the use of the Favorite Vote. Not to vote willy-nilly, but to go back and vote for the caches they've really enjoyed. This would help the system provide seekers lists of caches that others have enjoyed. It's not about the cache owner so much as the seeking population. Otherwise, why even have it?

I guess I could use my own advise and spread out the remaining 70-odd votes...

Edited January 21, 2011 by CoyoteRed

6.7k · January 21, 2011

A cache should stand on its own merit. If I am solicited, I will for sure NOT give it my Favorite. But I also think Blacklisting the cache is extreme. Blacklisting speaks as much about you as it does about the cache owner asking for votes.

I may be missing a meaning here. I would think that in the context of this conversation that "I will for sure NOT give it my Favorite" would constitute a so called black listing of a cache. What did you think it meant.

Using the language "Blacklisting" in place of "Not my favorite" to me have to different meanings. The latter indicates not favoriting and moving on. Blacklisting indicates some call to action to make sure it gets no votes. One in the same, but one is more extreme.

So your blurrying of meanings is just subtle forum tactic used to call someone to the carpet. Bottom line is, I don't care what you do. I fundamentally agree with you and it is my opinion that use of the term Blacklist is extreme.

Why is asking a question for clarification a tactic? Sheesh, relax man.

On the topic I don't recall anyone saying they would launch a campaign against a cache or cache owner. You really think someone is going to go out of their way to keep others from favoring a cache? I would bet some of those who would withhold a vote for a soliciting CO would vote for a cache someone told them not to.

7.3k · January 21, 2011

There is nothing in the guidelines preventing the solicitation of 'Favorite' votes. But, it's possible to do something that is allowed but isn't good caching etiquette.

Now that we Premium Members can vote for our 'Favorite' caches, many cache owners will want the Premium Member finders to give their caches 'Favorite' votes, that's human nature. However, it's also human nature to 'forget' to favorite a cache so a CO might want to want to remind the Premium Member finder in some way that a favorite would be appreciated.

Here are the actions a Cache Owner might take to ensure their share of Favorite votes:

A) Do nothing. All Favorite votes received without any prompting.

B ) Include a note in the cache description thanking Premium Member finders for their Favorite votes.

C) Include a note in the actual cache thanking Premium Member finders for their Favorite votes.

D) Include a note in the cache description urging Premium Member finders to cast a Favorite vote for the cache.

E) Include a note in the actual cache urging Premium Member finders to cast a Favorite vote for the cache.

F) Send emails to previous Premium Member finders asking them to cast a Favorite vote for the cache.

G) Post messages on Geocaching boards directed to Premium Members asking for Favorite votes.

H) Offering a reward of some sort for anyone a Premium Member who casts a Favorite vote.

As for myself, I've taken no action at this time, but have considered placing a 'thank you' in a description of a cache that had received a few votes. In the social media its common to request 'Friend' or 'Like' votes and not much is thought of the practice. However, Geocaching has it's own culture and what might be approved of in other circles, may not meet with approval here.

Without singling out individuals, what is your opinion of appropriate Cache Owner etiquette in regards to Favorite vote solicitation?

Here's another tacky idea:

I) "Encourage" people to pay for Premium Membership status, so there would be even more people to harass solicit.

Here are the actions a Cache Owner might take to ensure their share of Favorite votes:

Sounds a little like me-me-me, look at me-me-me!

I think one thing that can be done on Groundspeak's part is to encourage the use of the Favorite Vote. Not to vote willy-nilly, but to go back and vote for the caches they've really enjoyed. This would help the system provide seekers lists of caches that others have enjoyed. It's not about the cache owner so much as the seeking population. Otherwise, why even have it?

I guess I could use my own advise and spread out the remaining 70-odd votes...

I'm guessing that you are in actuality a Premium Member, despite what it says under your username?

7.4k · January 21, 2011

After giving it some thought, I'm okay with B, as long as it's worded in a way that is thanking those who have already given the votes, and isn't a solicitation for more votes. It's okay to be pleased that others are enjoying your cache.

1.2k · January 21, 2011

I guess I could use my own advise and spread out the remaining 70-odd votes...

I'm saving mine. Now that I have a way to seek out good caches (especially on trips) I've already had days where I've favorited 5 or 6 caches, and I don't want to run out.

I have been solicited and I don't like it. A-C are okay in my book.

2.8k · January 21, 2011

And to think I was considering bribing people to favorite my caches. After reading the responses here I'm starting to think that I may be perceived as somewhat tacky if I do that.

You definitely wouldn't get my vote for Geocacher of the Year, 2011. :lol:

1.5k · January 21, 2011

Part II

The response so far has been overwhelmingly in favor of no solicitation, which brings up a follow-up question...

There was a popular and very well done traditional cache with several favorite votes. Approximately one out of every five or six visitors gave the cache a "Favorite" vote. That is a particularly impressive accomplishment considering the number of people who made the find a long time ago and were no longer active cachers when the Favorites feature when live.

Then the CO put out a plea for those who had not Favorited the cache, to please 'Favorite' it. In short order, almost 1 out of every four or five people who had not yet Favorited the cache, went back and added the cache to their favorites. Again, considering many of those who did not favorite are no longer around to participate, that is a very good response rate.

The response to the original question in this thread has been overwhelming negative on the idea of asking for Favorite votes. However, in this one specific example, one out of 4 or 5 cachers responded with a Favorite vote. This would indicate to me that a number of cachers are not significantly bothered by the request, just as people gloss over requests for 'Friend' and 'Like' votes on social networking sights.

Are the people who support the concept of lobbying for Favorites afraid to speak up? Or, are the participants in this thread not representative of the total active geocaching population? Or, something else?

My initial take-away is that the number of cachers soliciting for Favorite votes will increase significantly as it appears that it 'works' (in the sense of producing more votes). It also appears that it will not go over well with many of the cachers here, and perhaps with most of the cachers who don't visit these forums.

Speaking for myself, I know I will be suspicious of a cache owner that actively solicits for 'Favorite' votes and I will mentally discount the value of that cacher's 'Favorite' ratings. There'll always be that "asterisk" attached to that number in my mind.

11.2k · January 21, 2011

Soliciting favorite points for your cache is just bad. Period.

9.3k · January 21, 2011

There was a popular and very well done traditional cache with several favorite votes. Approximately one out of every five or six visitors gave the cache a "Favorite" vote. That is a particularly impressive accomplishment considering the number of people who made the find a long time ago and were no longer active cachers when the Favorites feature when live.

Then the CO put out a plea for those who had not Favorited the cache, to please 'Favorite' it. In short order, almost 1 out of every four or five people who had not yet Favorited the cache, went back and added the cache to their favorites.

what is the GC number?

2.9k · January 21, 2011

There was a popular and very well done traditional cache with several favorite votes. Approximately one out of every five or six visitors gave the cache a "Favorite" vote. That is a particularly impressive accomplishment considering the number of people who made the find a long time ago and were no longer active cachers when the Favorites feature when live.

Then the CO put out a plea for those who had not Favorited the cache, to please 'Favorite' it. In short order, almost 1 out of every four or five people who had not yet Favorited the cache, went back and added the cache to their favorites.

what is the GC number?

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=267009

2k · January 21, 2011

unless I am talking about favorite caches with my friends in real life, I wont try to get any. Sometimes I talk about my personal owned favorites with friends when we get together and vice versa...but thats it.

January 21, 2011

Are the people who support the concept of lobbying for Favorites afraid to speak up? Or, are the participants in this thread not representative of the total active geocaching population? Or, something else?

Most of them probably are not in the forums at all.

I imagine that the people who voted after being asked, probably thought the cache was pretty good, and they probably had votes to spare. I think many people have a lot of spare votes right now, so they can toss one out when asked nicely.

I used up all my votes (only 22 votes) so I would have to remove one to vote for a new one right now. I would only do that if the cache was more my favorite than the one I have to remove from my list. So I have to think carefully about giving a vote out.

My initial take-away is that the number of cachers soliciting for Favorite votes will increase significantly as it appears that it 'works' (in the sense of producing more votes).

That could happen, especially if there is no downside for the cache owner. Advertising, spam, and junk mail also "work" even though everybody hates that stuff. 99.99% of people will delete spam, but it only takes 0.01% to buy the product, and the spammer makes a profit because it costs almost nothing to send out the spam. If it cost even 1 penny to send an e-mail, it would no longer be worth sending spam.

If this does become an issue, we could discourage cache owners from spamming people by threatening to remove the favorite votes if they do not stop doing it. Or turn off their ability to send messages. Or poke them with sharpened sticks.

Edited January 21, 2011 by kpanko

1.5k · January 21, 2011

what is the GC number?

It's probably best we avoid specific cachers and caches while discussing this topic. Based on the rather strong opinions, I'd imagine the conversation would go downhill pretty quick.

9.3k · January 21, 2011

what is the GC number?

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=267009

Wow...

38.2k · January 21, 2011

Of course I was joking with my response above. I was joking because I thought it would be obvious to everybody that anything other than A would be beyond cheesy. The initial posts seemed to back that up, but I guess I learned something thanks to some of the subsequent posts.

Edited January 21, 2011 by briansnat

4.2k · January 21, 2011

Uber-mega-platnium-super-Godzilla-cheeeeeeeeeeeeesy.

But I don't believe for a second that this instance or the threat of this scenario playing out in the future completely invalidates the usefulness of Favorites for those of us willing to use them for what they are- another piece of data in the overall picture.

January 21, 2011

After giving it some thought, I'm okay with B, as long as it's worded in a way that is thanking those who have already given the votes, and isn't a solicitation for more votes. It's okay to be pleased that others are enjoying your cache.

I tend to agree with this. Something like "To all who have chosen to add this cache to your favorites list, Thank you for the encouragement. It makes us want to make more good hides for you to enjoy" wouldn't bother me. Any type of direct solicitation would.

2.8k · January 21, 2011

A all the way.

About 90% of all caches are mediocre at best. Besides we don't get unlimited favor points to pass out.

7.4k · January 21, 2011

Part II

The response so far has been overwhelmingly in favor of no solicitation, which brings up a follow-up question...

There was a popular and very well done traditional cache with several favorite votes. Approximately one out of every five or six visitors gave the cache a "Favorite" vote. That is a particularly impressive accomplishment considering the number of people who made the find a long time ago and were no longer active cachers when the Favorites feature when live.

Then the CO put out a plea for those who had not Favorited the cache, to please 'Favorite' it. In short order, almost 1 out of every four or five people who had not yet Favorited the cache, went back and added the cache to their favorites. Again, considering many of those who did not favorite are no longer around to participate, that is a very good response rate.

The response to the original question in this thread has been overwhelming negative on the idea of asking for Favorite votes. However, in this one specific example, one out of 4 or 5 cachers responded with a Favorite vote. This would indicate to me that a number of cachers are not significantly bothered by the request, just as people gloss over requests for 'Friend' and 'Like' votes on social networking sights.

Are the people who support the concept of lobbying for Favorites afraid to speak up? Or, are the participants in this thread not representative of the total active geocaching population? Or, something else?

My initial take-away is that the number of cachers soliciting for Favorite votes will increase significantly as it appears that it 'works' (in the sense of producing more votes). It also appears that it will not go over well with many of the cachers here, and perhaps with most of the cachers who don't visit these forums.

Speaking for myself, I know I will be suspicious of a cache owner that actively solicits for 'Favorite' votes and I will mentally discount the value of that cacher's 'Favorite' ratings. There'll always be that "asterisk" attached to that number in my mind.

I have two theories:

1. The cache is just so spectacularly awesome that previous finders didn't mind being asked.

2. The forum is an inaccurate sample of the geocaching population.

5.3k · January 21, 2011

If I had favorited a cache and I heard the owner was soliciting for favorites I would remove my favorite.

If it were really egregious, I might encourage my friends to do likewise, but I doubt it would ever come to that.

I would certainly avoid any such cache like the plague.

Etiquette For Soliciting Favorite Votes

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