Need Input on Cache Maintenance

[+hawkeyetob]

A bit long, so I apologize in advance.

 

Went to find a nearby cache rated 1/1.5.

The description was well done complete with a good hint and pictures.

There was only one logical place for the cache.

It appeared it was being found fairly easily and quickly.

 

When my family went to the cache area, it was clear a massive amount of dirt work had been done in the area.

The cache location was in a rural gravel road ditch near a sign with recent bull-dozing for at least one hundred feet.

 

No big surprise but we did not find the cache.

When we returned home, I reviewed the description and double checked the coordinates.

Everything looked fine.

We discussed a DNF or a Needs Maintenance.

Another would-be finder posted before us a DNF noting the bulldozing work.

 

We decided a NM describing the situation as I have done above would be useful for the CO.

This was posted back in July.

Although I do not personally know the CO, his information indicates he lives a number of hours away.

 

We first looked for the cache and posted the NM in July.

We have stopped by a number of times over the fall to see if anything has happened with this cache.

As late as the end of November, no cache.

 

The only change we saw was on the description now is soliciting assistance to maintain the cache.

Our post was the last activity for this cache since July.

 

It seems apparent the CO has not replaced the cache.

On a regular basis we have no problem assisting with drying out caches, adding log pages etc...you know, basic maintenance.

Recently, we worked with a CO to adopt a cache since we were nearby and he was having difficulty maintaining it...again standard stuff.

The ISSUE where I am requesting input:

The CO by his request for maintenance assistance seems to acknowledge the issue and at the same time seems to indicate he wants to keep the cache in place. To my eyes, it appears to be more than maintenance but cache replacement.

Is this typical for this kind of situation? Thoughts? Guidance? Input?

 

Thanks in advance.

Happy Geocaching! - hawkeyetob

[+fizzymagic]

Why is it that you need to find this cache so badly? Is there something fantastic about it that makes it so unique that it MUST be found?

 

If so, I would replace the container. If not, I would just ignore it.

 

Either way, I would avoid being a caching busybody. There are lots of caches available. We don't have to find them all.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Clearly the owner is unable/unwilling to maintain this cache. I'd post a needs archived and see if the reviewer agrees.

[+StarBrand]

I would have posted a DNF. I think you gotta actually find the cache to post a NM log.

 

If the cache situation bothers you that much - post a NA log, It is a violation of the guidelines technically. If not, ignore the thing and move on with life. I would just offer to help the guy out myself.

[+L0ne.R]

I would contact the reviewer. Let him/her deal with it.

[+Scenic_Rhodes]

Clearly the owner is unable/unwilling to maintain this cache. I'd post a needs archived and see if the reviewer agrees.

 

This

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I think you gotta actually find the cache to post a NM log.

Even better, I think you should have to have found it before you should even think about replacing it for the CO.

[+hawkeyetob]

Looks like I should have done a poll instead!

 

Thus far with 4 replies:

Caching Busybody - 1

Post NA - 1

DNF - 1

Contact Reviewer - 1

 

Hmmm, not really bothered by the cache or really the situation.

As I mentioned, just looking for some input...winter here...just looking for folks thoughts.

Clearly, given the wide variety of responses, not as cut and dried as some would suggest.

 

Thanks for the input thus far!

 

Happy Geocaching! -hawkeyetob

[+Max and 99]

I would post a NA log and let the reviewer deal with it.

[+Ecylram]

I was in your exact situation with a roadside cache that was destroyed by roadwork. I Helene I posted a DNF witha detailed explanation, but an NM sounds just as appropriate in your case.

 

I'd post an NA at this point. Cache is missing and the CO is unable to replace it and hasn't disabled it. Time to open it up for someone else to place a maintained cache.

[+briansnat]

No response to a NM for over 6 months? I'd post a NA and put it in the hands of the reviewer.

[+kpanko]

The guidelines are being violated here:

 

As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive the listing.

 

A problem has been reported. It has been more than a few weeks. The owner is responsible for checking on it. The listing should at least be disabled so that others will know not to search for it. But it should be checked on within a couple of months after that.

 

Although I do not personally know the CO, his information indicates he lives a number of hours away.

 

That brings us to the next paragraph of the guidelines:

 

It may be difficult to fulfill your maintenance obligations if you place a cache while traveling on vacation or otherwise outside of your normal caching area. These caches may not be published unless you are able to demonstrate an acceptable maintenance plan.

 

Living too far away is not an acceptable reason to ignore a cache for more than a few weeks.

 

What you want to do about this is entirely up to you. Log a needs archived, or send a note to your reviewer (either way, it basically does the same thing). The reviewer knows the rules and will give the cache owner a fair chance to replace it before archiving the cache. Volunteer to help take of the cache if you want.

Edited January 20, 2011 by kpanko

[+Harry Dolphin]

Add another vote for Cache Busybody (though I'd use Cache Police.)

But, sometimes, the undead that refuse to die need to be beaten soundly with a shovel, and shot with a silver bullet. Die! Die!

Is your story is valid, this sounds like a perfect example of a cache that refuses to die, and you have my permission to NA it.

[+Walts Hunting]

I would have posted a NA log the first time. The previous logs indicate the CO has been unable to care for it. His comment asking for help in maintenance is also a problem since each CO is responsible for maintaining his caches and if he is over extended then as the caches go bad they should be dumped.

[+wiseye]

Write the CO and ask if you can adopt it. All other answers are just going around the CO.

[+Smurf]

Clearly the owner is unable/unwilling to maintain this cache. I'd post a needs archived and see if the reviewer agrees.

 

This is exactly what I would do

[+GeoGeeBee]

I would have posted a DNF. I think you gotta actually find the cache to post a NM log.

 

 

I would normally agree with you. But I think in this case, I'd make an exception. Given that:

It's supposed to be an easy find,

It's had a string of DNF's,

Bulldozers have been at work at GZ,

I'd say in this case the NM log was quite appropriate. And given that the NM log was posted a while ago, and the needed maintenance has not been done, it's time to get a reviewer involved. Hit the NA button.

[+MontyFam]

Yup - NM and then 6 months later NA. Easy. Done.

[+Ecylram]

Write the CO and ask if you can adopt it. All other answers are just going around the CO.

 

I believe the "going around the CO" is the point. An NM was placed sometime before and the CO did not disable or repair the cache. When an NM isn't addressed, then it is time to "[go] around the CO" and post the NA. IMO.

[+hawkeyetob]

Wow, thanks for all of the replies.

 

One reply made me re-consider this issue a bit.

The fact that the CO did not disable at a minimum after this length of time is a good point.

 

As a CO myself, I make an attempt to address issues ASAP.

However, I also know things come up as well.

If something came up, a temporary disabled would make sense.

 

Note to self: Next time do a poll.

It appears thus far is to lean towards the NA to allow the reviewer to address the issue.

The caveat appears to be unless I want to step in to adopt.

 

Still open to additional weigh-ins or input...still winter...this morning it was -20F!

 

Thanks everyone!

Happy Geocaching! - hawkeyetob

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Wow, thanks for all of the replies.

 

One reply made me re-consider this issue a bit.

The fact that the CO did not disable at a minimum after this length of time is a good point.

 

As a CO myself, I make an attempt to address issues ASAP.

However, I also know things come up as well.

If something came up, a temporary disabled would make sense.

 

Note to self: Next time do a poll.

It appears thus far is to lean towards the NA to allow the reviewer to address the issue.

The caveat appears to be unless I want to step in to adopt.

 

Still open to additional weigh-ins or input...still winter...this morning it was -20F!

 

Thanks everyone!

Happy Geocaching! - hawkeyetob

What is it you would be adopting? The cache is gone, according to your first post. Let it be archived and place your own there if you really want.

[Dj Storm]

In your situation I would have done the following:

 

Back in July I would have logged both a DNF and a NM, notifying the owner that the area changed dramatically.

Now, when the owner asks for help, since I haven't found the cache yet, I would do nothing.

 

I changed out containers or logbooks when owners asked for help with maintenance. I will replace a cache altogether if it's missing, I had found it before, the hiding place is in the same condition and the owner asks for help. However, if the hiding place is no longer viable (like in your example), I wouldn't replace the cache.

[hoosier guy]

Write the CO and ask if you can adopt it. All other answers are just going around the CO.

 

A wise and kind answer! I salute you!