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Favoriting an archived cache.


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We went back and forth with this one in the Canada forum, for a while.

 

Personally, it's "Your Favourites", so yup a cache that's been archived is still one of my favourite finds. The "it's a system to recommend caches to others" is sorta implied by cachers if you think about it - otherwise the feature would be called "Recommended caches"

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I see the favorites as a way to say "I think you will enjoy this cache". But if the cache is archived the favorite vote isn't going to help anyone. What do you think about it?

I share your view, and I haven't awarded any favorite points to archived caches. I've certainly enjoyed many archived caches and some of them are among my favorite finds, but I used my logs to express those sentiments. I try to use my points in a way that might help others find fun caches.

 

That said, I don't there's anything wrong with awarding points to archived caches, especially if you have more points than you know what to do with. It's just not as useful to other geocachers as awarding points to active caches, IMHO.

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I think I've got several hundred unused fav-0-rite points (or whatever they're called). I am using them on archived when it's cache I remember.

I expect a lot of archived caches will have favorites on them in the future, as caches currently active get archived. There may be cachers who go back over that list and "take back" the point to use elsewhere. But mostly I think the points will stay where they were put.

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I see the favorites as a way to say "I think you will enjoy this cache".

 

But it is your favourite list, and not mine or that of anyone else.

 

In my case, there is often no correlation at all between caches that I enjoyed very much for particular reasons and

caches that I would recommend to others because I think that they might enjoy the cache.

 

But if the cache is archived the favorite vote isn't going to help anyone. What do you think about it?

 

For me viewing the favourite list of cacher X mainly is a tool for trying to understand which caches he/she likes the most. So the inclusion of archived caches is

fundamental.

 

Cezanne

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It may not be useful when looking at caches, but it can be when looking at cachers. I can look at someone's profile and see that they've Favorited a lot of the same caches I have, archived or not. Thus, I'd probably like others on their Favorite list. In some ways, this is probably more helpful than just the number of Favorites on a cache, especially when looking for great caches that few people have found.

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I see the favorites as a way to say "I think you will enjoy this cache".

 

But it is your favourite list, and not mine or that of anyone else.

 

In my case, there is often no correlation at all between caches that I enjoyed very much for particular reasons and

caches that I would recommend to others because I think that they might enjoy the cache.

 

But if the cache is archived the favorite vote isn't going to help anyone. What do you think about it?

 

For me viewing the favourite list of cacher X mainly is a tool for trying to understand which caches he/she likes the most. So the inclusion of archived caches is

fundamental.

 

Cezanne

 

It may not be useful when looking at caches, but it can be when looking at cachers. I can look at someone's profile and see that they've Favorited a lot of the same caches I have, archived or not. Thus, I'd probably like others on their Favorite list. In some ways, this is probably more helpful than just the number of Favorites on a cache, especially when looking for great caches that few people have found.

 

So you guys are using it more like the bookmark lists? Hmmn.

 

I know this has been discussed elsewhere but I really didn't give it much thought until a few minutes ago when I looked at my caches and noticed that some had been favorited. One of them has been archived. I guess I just hadn't given this aspect any serious thought.

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I see the favorites as a way to say "I think you will enjoy this cache".

 

But it is your favourite list, and not mine or that of anyone else.

 

In my case, there is often no correlation at all between caches that I enjoyed very much for particular reasons and

caches that I would recommend to others because I think that they might enjoy the cache.

 

But if the cache is archived the favorite vote isn't going to help anyone. What do you think about it?

 

For me viewing the favourite list of cacher X mainly is a tool for trying to understand which caches he/she likes the most. So the inclusion of archived caches is

fundamental.

 

Cezanne

 

It may not be useful when looking at caches, but it can be when looking at cachers. I can look at someone's profile and see that they've Favorited a lot of the same caches I have, archived or not. Thus, I'd probably like others on their Favorite list. In some ways, this is probably more helpful than just the number of Favorites on a cache, especially when looking for great caches that few people have found.

 

So you guys are using it more like the bookmark lists? Hmmn.

 

I know this has been discussed elsewhere but I really didn't give it much thought until a few minutes ago when I looked at my caches and noticed that some had been favorited. One of them has been archived. I guess I just hadn't given this aspect any serious thought.

Sort of, I guess. I haven't cached in a few months due to a busted GPS, but once it's replaced and I'm back, the first place I'll look is a particular cacher's Favorites, because he's marked a lot of the same archived ones as I did (most of mine are archived, in fact).

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One of my locs was favorited. :P

 

I haven't totally decided what to do. On one hand, I feel like I should favorite some of my archived cache finds, if they really are my favorites. But I have done so many great caches, that I want to use my favorites on active ones, because I don't have enough.

Edited by Ambrosia
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I've pondered this one too.

 

I decided against marking archived caches as "Favourite" because I feel that, even if I enjoyed them at the time, those caches are now deceased as far as the current caching scene goes. As they were particularly enjoyable caches when we did them I will have given them good logs at that time to let the owners know we appreciated them.

 

MrsB

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well, I personally have marked some archived caches as favorites. Its supposed to be 10% of your cache finds and they were favorites of mine at the time I found them. I have only logged about 6% of my finds as favorites though....I cant justify 10% for whatever reason, that and I cant remember a lot of them.

 

If a cache got archived tomorrow that was one of your favorites, would you remove the favorite? No? Well, then archived caches should get favorites in my book, but thats just me.

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I don't see the downside of marking archived caches as faves.

 

When we see caches marked as faves, we understand that those caches were among that finder's top ten caches that he has found. They are the best of the best. If we weren't using faves on archived caches, then this percentage increases and the information becomes less and less usable.

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I don't see the downside of marking archived caches as faves.

 

When we see caches marked as faves, we understand that those caches were among that finder's top ten caches that he has found. They are the best of the best. If we weren't using faves on archived caches, then this percentage increases and the information becomes less and less usable.

 

I get your point. I don't think the math works though. Few people I know of have used all of their available votes so the number is something less than ten percent anyway. Either way if the idea is to find better than average caches it doesn't matter if they are the top ten percent or the top 25 percent.

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I think I've got several hundred unused fav-0-rite points (or whatever they're called). I am using them on archived when it's cache I remember.

I expect a lot of archived caches will have favorites on them in the future, as caches currently active get archived. There may be cachers who go back over that list and "take back" the point to use elsewhere. But mostly I think the points will stay where they were put.

You can "take back" a favorite vote? (not a premium member so wouldn't know)

Hmm ...if so then can you change them all around at whim? Hmm

If that's the case then you should be able to remove the favorite from a cache when it is archived and give it to another still active cache- or just leave it as a tribute to a great cache.

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yes, you can remove a favorite point. I have done so, but rarely, it was because I changed my mind or did the wrong one. I imagine folks who really hug the 10% line could remove one to make another one included instead. As one said, if you only favorite active caches and you are the type to use up all your favorite points, then you are effectively making 10% to 25% of your actives favorites which seems really high to me because obviously archived finds take up a significant percentage of anyone's finds if you have been around a while. 6-7% is all I can muster that stand out.

 

I cant imagine saying 25% of my actives are my favorites but its "your" favorites so how you play is up to you.

Edited by lamoracke
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Either way if the idea is to find better than average caches it doesn't matter if they are the top ten percent or the top 25 percent.

As we increase the percentage, the odds of that cache being universally enjoyed reduces, making the use of faves as a way to find good caches less effective. Edited by sbell111
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I've got well over 200 favorites we still haven't used. I haven't added any archived caches to our favorites list, or at least I don't think I have, for the reason the OP mentioned. But I'm not going to bother going back through my list and weeding out favorites that become archived.

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I didn't put any archived caches on my favorites list (see how I didn't say "favorited" there?) because personally I see it as recommendations to other cachers. As such, recommending archived caches doesn't make sense.

This was my attitude as well. But several post in this thread make me realize that favoriting archived caches can serve a purpose. One obvious one it to "reward" caches that that were among the best I've found both to thank the cache owners and to encourage others to hide more caches like these. But the better rationale is for others who liked these caches to see that I liked them as well. They can use this information when they look at what non-archived caches I've favorited and decide that they might be more likely to like these as well based on our similar likes.

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Currently, in our state:

 

21% of the caches have at least one vote

9% of the caches have at least two votes

5% of the caches have at least three votes

2.8% of the caches have at least four votes

1.6% of the caches have at least five votes

0.2% of the caches have at least 10 votes

0.05% of the caches have at least 20 votes

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It's a very subjective guide at best anyway and probably should be viewed in that light, especially since there is no way to give the reason why I thought it should be a favorite unless I mention it in my log. A cache I particularly enjoyed and put on my favorites list may only rise to mundane for you. And there are so many caches out there , good and bad.. no,strike that.. there are only good and gooder.. :) .. that I really don't think we have to worry about the diluting the effectiveness of our favorites list. If it feels good to 'favorite' an archived cache, do it.

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Favoriting an archived cache is like placing flowers at a tombstone. The more flowers, the bigger the mess is. <_<

Not saying that your analogy doesn't work, but would you mind explaining how my favoriting an archived cache (or 100 people doing so) makes a mess? Edited by sbell111
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If I were able to use the "Favourites" feature, it would be to point out that the location of a cache is darned nice.

 

I can't really remember the cache itself, but the location of this archived cache was spectacular. We spent a lot of time exploring the area, taking photos, before remembering that the reason we were there is because someone placed a cache nearby:

 

6c185b7c-c6a6-4ed8-9cc9-d6e215155e23.jpg

 

Archived caches are still there to find out about, so why not put them on your "favourites" list, if they meet your criteria?

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Favoriting an archived cache is like placing flowers at a tombstone. The more flowers, the bigger the mess is. <_<

Not saying that your analogy doesn't work, but would you mind explaining how my favoriting an archived cache (or 100 people doing so) makes a mess?

 

Its call moving on, hanging on to the past isnt healthy and it doesnt do any good when someone see an archived cache with high favorites and cant do anything about it. When I am searching around on geocaching.com, I am looking for a cache I can find, not a cache page to look at. Save your favorites points for caches I can find.

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Favoriting an archived cache is like placing flowers at a tombstone. The more flowers, the bigger the mess is. <_<

 

An apt analogy.

 

To this point I don't believe I've favorited an already-archived cache, but for a special-to-me cache I'd be willing. Guess I'm just sentimental. smile.gif

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Favoriting an archived cache is like placing flowers at a tombstone. The more flowers, the bigger the mess is. <_<
Not saying that your analogy doesn't work, but would you mind explaining how my favoriting an archived cache (or 100 people doing so) makes a mess?
Its call moving on, hanging on to the past isnt healthy and it doesnt do any good when someone see an archived cache with high favorites and cant do anything about it.
If we only wanted to look forward in this game, no one would identify any caches as their faves. Those were all found in the past, after all.
When I am searching around on geocaching.com, I am looking for a cache I can find, not a cache page to look at. Save your favorites points for caches I can find.

While it is true that you may find faves helpful while looking for caches to find, that is not my goal when I identify caches as favorites. My job is to merely identify those caches that amused me the most. If you like what I like, you might find this info helpful, but I don't (and shouldn't) consider your desires when identifying the caches that I liked best.

 

(Thanks for explaining your analogy better. Now I am much more confident when I tell you that it isn't apt. Given that faves on archived caches will not show on your searches for caches to find, I fail to see how they are making a mess for you.)

Edited by sbell111
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I have favorited 16 archived caches. They were some of the best caches I've ever found, and I want to commemorate them on my Favorites list (which is for my use as well as others). And if someone chooses to look at my Favorites, it gives them a fuller sense of what I consider great caches. I'm clearly not alone in this approach - one of the archived caches has 14 Favorite votes (and it's been archived for years). I've not been stingy with my Favorites votes, yet I still have 366 of 714 votes remaining, so I'm not depriving other good caches of votes. (If I only had a few votes, then I would focus on active caches to recommend to others, but that's not the case.) That's how I'm rolling with the faves.

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I didn't put any archived caches on my favorites list (see how I didn't say "favorited" there?) because personally I see it as recommendations to other cachers. As such, recommending archived caches doesn't make sense.

I used to think like this. Hey, I've been the one holding up the flag to have this happen for some time. But I've taken more of a stance (gasp!) like sbell111...

I don't see the downside of marking archived caches as faves. When we see caches marked as faves, we understand that those caches were among that finder's top ten caches that he has found. They are the best of the best.

However, I don't agree with this...

If we weren't using faves on archived caches, then this percentage increases and the information becomes less and less usable.

I don't see only marking non-archived caches as favorites as an issue. Sure, right now over 50% of the caches I've found are currently archived. And yea, I've marked 41 caches as favorites - so it's really more like 26% of the caches I've found, but I don't necessarily HAVE to use all 41 favorites (just like the argument that people that have thousands of finds don't HAVE to use theirs). It just means that those who have found more archived caches, and that subscribe to this idea get a little bonus of their finds to favorite ratio.

 

But here's the whole point:

 

If people mark archived caches as favorites, it is stating the truth. The archived cache is one of their favorites, and I place no blame to that. It's a "favorite." It holds a memory and gives kudos to placers.

 

However, marking a favorite on an archived cache does not help cache seekers if they are looking for recommendation for caches in a search. As a seeker, favorite points act as recommendations of caches that I might take a second or third look at when I've exhausted all other narrowing criteria. This will be especially true when the favorite points are integrated into GPX files and Pocket Queries.

 

While I would hope that people would use their favorite points to recommend caches to others as an act of altruism, I won't fault cachers for being wrong if they choose to use their favorite points to denote caches that were of a particularly nifty experience for them.

 

I guess the real difference is if you're marking caches as your favorites to keep a list for yourself, or if your making a list of caches you'd recommend to others. And the great thing is that either way does not grossly affect the other.

Edited by Markwell
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Favoriting an archived cache is like placing flowers at a tombstone. The more flowers, the bigger the mess is. <_<

Not saying that your analogy doesn't work, but would you mind explaining how my favoriting an archived cache (or 100 people doing so) makes a mess?

 

Its call moving on, hanging on to the past isnt healthy and it doesnt do any good when someone see an archived cache with high favorites and cant do anything about it. When I am searching around on geocaching.com, I am looking for a cache I can find, not a cache page to look at. Save your favorites points for caches I can find.

My favorites will have nothing to do with you

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If I see that an archived cache has a lot of favorite points, I may want to go to that location and see about placing a new one in that area, if able. Also, if a lot of people favorite an archived cache, maybe the C/O will think about putting it back out. I have and will continue to favorite archived caches, if they are my favorites.

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My favorite votes go to my favorite caches. Think that's what the concept is all about? Though I will admit that it takes an exceptional cache for me to award a favorite on an archived cache. Crab Creek. The main object of a week's vacation. Great cache. Definitely one of my favorites. Central Park Decathlon. Evil multi stage. Took several months to finish. Definitely in my top ten caches! It has my favorite vote!

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A few other points in favor, some touched on already:

 

It is an additional thank you to the cache hider, no matter how far back it was

 

It provides another way to discover and look over archived caches (useful as long as there is no archived cache search)

 

Then there's the question of whether people will really maintain their list and reassign points whenever a favorite gets archived. I don't see it happening, and so the lists are going to fill up with archived caches anyway. Might as well keep the list honest.

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A large portion of my favorites I have given to archived caches because, well, they were my favorites.

 

MY favorites.

 

I've given away about 120 points, and have about 130 left, though none of those 130 will get used unless I find a great one tomorrow. So there is no shortage of favorites. I will probably only ever give out 5-6 percent as favorites, so I see no reason to save them for active caches.

 

Also, since they are MY favorites I give a point away to a cache that has a special meaning for me. A month or so ago I gave a favorite point to an average hide in an average area. But the area was one I spent many hours in my youth playing in, so I loved returning there and it had a special meaning to me. But nobody else will care.

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Either way if the idea is to find better than average caches it doesn't matter if they are the top ten percent or the top 25 percent.

As we increase the percentage, the odds of that cache being universally enjoyed reduces, making the use of faves as a way to find good caches less effective.

 

Agree. I would have been happy with 5% I have gone though all my active cache finds and basically used half of my favorites. I'm afraid if I tried to dump the rest, I'd just be diluting the pool. I see no point in awarding them to archived caches. If it was a great cache, I'm sure that I left a great log.

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A large portion of my favorites I have given to archived caches because, well, they were my favorites.

 

MY favorites.

 

I've given away about 120 points, and have about 130 left, though none of those 130 will get used unless I find a great one tomorrow. So there is no shortage of favorites. I will probably only ever give out 5-6 percent as favorites, so I see no reason to save them for active caches.

 

Also, since they are MY favorites I give a point away to a cache that has a special meaning for me. A month or so ago I gave a favorite point to an average hide in an average area. But the area was one I spent many hours in my youth playing in, so I loved returning there and it had a special meaning to me. But nobody else will care.

 

Reading the rest of this thread has actually changed my point of view. I have a 192 that I simply will not assign to the mundane LPCs or other uninspired caches. I may as well award them to the archived caches that were special to me, (when I have time).

 

I also see a trend. Of the people that are actually participating with this system, and seriously going through all their finds, they seem to end up with about half their points remaining. It seem that 5% may have been a better plan, but you can't put the horse back in the barn when he's ten mile down the road.

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When I am searching around on geocaching.com, I am looking for a cache I can find, not a cache page to look at. Save your favorites points for caches I can find.

 

To me, favorites are not meant to be recommendations. I feel that way because of the way it is layed out on the cache page. If a cache gets 100 favorite tallys, you can click on the ribbon and see who favorited it and have a link right to their log so you can read about the find. It gives you a barometer of why these people liked it, archived or not.

 

If it was meant for recommending caches, I think you'd see something more generic like "100 cachers recommend this cache" without a list of who recommended it. It'd be more of a pure voting system and in that sense, recommending archived caches wouldn't make any sense (and probably wouldn't be allowed).

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I don't see anything anything wrong with adding archived caches to my favourites - and I have.

 

They're my favourite points, and I've chosen to add them to my favourite finds. I really couldn't care less if anybody else wants to use them as recommendations, or as a way to filter caches - but if they do, they might be disappointed to find that some of them aren't particularly spectacular but were added because they were memorable for whatever reason to me - and that reason could be more to do with the experience I had at that time than the cache alone!

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I didn't put any archived caches on my favorites list (see how I didn't say "favorited" there?) because personally I see it as recommendations to other cachers. As such, recommending archived caches doesn't make sense.

I used to think like this. Hey, I've been the one holding up the flag to have this happen for some time. But I've taken more of a stance (gasp!) like sbell111...

I don't see the downside of marking archived caches as faves. When we see caches marked as faves, we understand that those caches were among that finder's top ten caches that he has found. They are the best of the best.

However, I don't agree with this...

If we weren't using faves on archived caches, then this percentage increases and the information becomes less and less usable.

I don't see only marking non-archived caches as favorites as an issue. Sure, right now over 50% of the caches I've found are currently archived. And yea, I've marked 41 caches as favorites - so it's really more like 26% of the caches I've found, but I don't necessarily HAVE to use all 41 favorites (just like the argument that people that have thousands of finds don't HAVE to use theirs). It just means that those who have found more archived caches, and that subscribe to this idea get a little bonus of their finds to favorite ratio.

I'm a little surprised that someone would agree with that first statement and not with the second.

 

As I understand it, the way the fave system works is that we all mark our 'top ten percent' finds as faves. Other people see this information and use it to identify caches that they might like. The theory being that if 10 people thought this cache was a top ten percenter, then the next guy is probably going to like it. However, if people increase the fave percentage as you suggest, the odds that the next guy is going to like that cache decreases. This becomes real obvious as that percentage increase gets larger.

Edited by sbell111
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Another possible benefit of voting for a particularly remarkable yet archived cache is that the CO, or other cacher, could be encouraged to replace/recreate/relist that cache and bring it back to the game. Of course there could be many factors that led to the archiving in the first place, but all things being equal, maybe some good ones could be brought back. Just mentioning a possibility.

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While I don't much care how anyone doles out their favorite votes, a few thoughts come to mind.

 

Regarding the idea that a cache having more favorites will reduce the percentage of people who enjoy it, that won't hold true for me. I do not look at a cache with favorite votes and automatically think "wow I'm going to have the time of my life here!". I will see the favorite votes on the cache and take comfort in knowing that this most likely isn't a crappy container hidden behind a dumpster that smells of rotting fish in the nether regions of an armpit of a plaza. But in the end, whether or not I enjoy a cache is my responsibility alone.

 

About sbell111's idea that favoriting active caches only will water down the field (and I think he does a good job of arguing it), I kind of disagree. Thing is, if alllllll votes were only given to active caches, the percentage would be ten percent. That won't change. The net result of assigning votes to archived caches (or not assigning votes) is to reduce that percentage on active caches below ten percent. But nothing will increase that percentage on active caches above ten.

 

I like the 'flowers on a tombstone' analogy. It isn't so much about creation of a mess, but that it is by and large an empty tribute that impacts on very few. For those who placed the flowers, it means something, for the rest of the world, not so much. And very soon, flowers are gone and the tribute is mostly hidden.

 

As a tool (which is what I get the impression it was meant to be), favoriting would be most effective if a majority of the votes go to active caches. Life is for the living and a dead cache, however great it may have been, is dead. It won't happen that way, but if it gets to a point where more favorite votes are going to archived caches than active, it'll be time to yank the plug on the favorites feature.

 

In the end, the most telling thing is that Groundspeak chose to allow favoriting of archived caches. If they wanted favorites to go only to active caches, that's how it would work. So, while everyone can favorite as they please, I personally will try using the system as a tool to find above average caches until I find that it no longer works. But it will absolutely not be the only thing I judge a cache on.

 

An afterthought -- I really do wonder how much of this whole issue boils down to the cachers who have more votes than they can shake a stick at? Will those with fewer votes see it the same way, or assign more votes to active caches instead? Just wondering, because its a common thing I've seen in a few discussions on this subject, where someone says I have xxx votes and have only used yyy of them. I haven't really seen someone say, for example, I've only used 30 of my 50 votes and at the same time come down on the side of voting for archived caches.

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About sbell111's idea that favoriting active caches only will water down the field (and I think he does a good job of arguing it), I kind of disagree. Thing is, if alllllll votes were only given to active caches, the percentage would be ten percent. That won't change. The net result of assigning votes to archived caches (or not assigning votes) is to reduce that percentage on active caches below ten percent. But nothing will increase that percentage on active caches above ten.

Imagine that you are a cacher who finds 1000 caches. You assign your fave points to the 100 best caches based on your enjoyment of the find. Now imagine that half of your found caches are archived (with an even distribution throughout the 'like' continuum.) You then allocate your fave points to the best of all active caches. Doing this, you have increased the percentage of caches that you are telling the world that are among the top ten percent of all the caches that you have found (the basis of the 'fave' system) to something like 15%.

 

I like the 'flowers on a tombstone' analogy. It isn't so much about creation of a mess, but that it is by and large an empty tribute that impacts on very few. For those who placed the flowers, it means something, for the rest of the world, not so much. And very soon, flowers are gone and the tribute is mostly hidden.

In this scenario, however, the owner of the tombstone isn't deceased. The tribute to that cache affects the finder of the cache and the owner of the cache (and anyone who may consider hiding a similar cache). The fact that this fave point is not available for use when deciding to find a cache is moot. It is no different than if a person faved a scuba cache, but you don't go after those caches. Edited by sbell111
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I am with the group that does think one out of every ten caches should be a favorite. I would like to give more pooints to certain caches. If we only want to make one out of every 100 cahces our favorites why cant we give that cache 10 points?

 

I also dont see how this helps people pick higher quality caches to search for. My favorite caches are ones that seldome get found, so even if everyone that found it gave it one favorite point the stupid micro under that lampskirt that 200 people have found will still end up with a higher favorite rating.

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Its call moving on, hanging on to the past isnt healthy and it doesnt do any good when someone see an archived cache with high favorites and cant do anything about it. When I am searching around on geocaching.com, I am looking for a cache I can find, not a cache page to look at. Save your favorites points for caches I can find.

 

Really? Some people learn from the past. If a large percentage of your true favorite caches are now archived, and the newer caches are not worthy of your favorite list perhaps it shows that more hiders need to return to the standards of a few years back and slow the growth of uninspired hides in undesirable locations. If the system is used this way perhaps you'll have more high quality caches from which to make your future selections.

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