Geocaches are starting to get banned locally.

[+Coldgears]

http://www.towamencin.org/parkandrec.htm

 

A township in my area called Towamencin Township, which has a lot of really nice and beautiful parks has banned geocaching.

 

I can't grasp why they would do this. Why would they ban geocaching?

[+mpilchfamily]

Maybe a group of cachers needs to sit down with the town council and try to organize an CITO event. At the very least it demonstrates the good Geocaching can do for an area. The town leaders may only be aware of the bad press that Geocaching has.

[+Chief301]

http://www.towamencin.org/parkandrec.htm

 

A township in my area called Towamencin Township, which has a lot of really nice and beautiful parks has banned geocaching.

 

I can't grasp why they would do this. Why would they ban geocaching?

 

The answer may be right in front of you. On their site they are looking for volunteers for various commitees. One of them is the "Opens Spaces and Parks Advisory Commitee". Sounds like your forum to get involved and change some minds. In any case you may be able to find out why the ban. Are they acting on actual negative experiences (bomb scare, digging holes, property damage) or just a general "We heard a negative story about it in the news, we don't want it" kind of misinformation? Maybe you could be the one to educate them.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Chief301

[+johnsingleton1974]

Hahahahaha I blame Opencaching.

 

Seriously, this might become more of a common occurrence, with the explosion of the game, and people leaving, and retrieving "caches" all over the place in large numbers more and more people are becoming aware of the "treasure boxes" being left all over the place, which resemble trash, and are a nuisance to communities which would rather not have children, and adults alike "snooping around in the bushes at all hours of the day and night".

 

Course it could be just powertrails that are irking people.

 

If you stop to think about this "problem" a little, from the veiwpoint of the muggle it can be very peculiar, heck even some of your sig others have problems with the game, due in part by your addictions to it, and in part by how ridiculous finding a box of used golf balls, and gum wrappers in the parking lot of wally world with a billion dollar satellite system really is.

 

Therefore can you really blame small town usa for wanting to get rid of such an activity?

Edited January 16, 2011 by johnsingleton1974

[+dbrierley]

http://www.towamencin.org/parkandrec.htm

 

A township in my area called Towamencin Township, which has a lot of really nice and beautiful parks has banned geocaching.

 

I can't grasp why they would do this. Why would they ban geocaching?

 

It looks like the cause was a bomb scare:

 

http://www.thereporteronline.com/articles/2010/12/10/news/srv0000010183929.txt?viewmode=4

[+narcissa]

This is going to become more and more common as Groundspeak continues to turn a blind eye to power trails, caches on private property without permission, and other careless cache practices.

[+Chokecherry]

I was getting permission to place some caches last summer. I gave examples of caches already placed on the property only to find those caches did not have permission. They were not too thrilled about the placement of one of the existing caches.

 

Fortunately caching is still allowed on these properties but it took some discussion and apologizing a lot for people I don't know and it also took me having an existing relationship with the people granting permission. If more cachers would spend less time trying to skirt around the guidelines to serve themselves and look at how their actions affect the larger community this probably wouldn't be a big issue.

[Keystone]

This policy has been in place for more than two years. I wouldn't look at more recent events when searching for causes or predicting effects.

 

There are certainly older and newer policies that are equally restrictive. There's also examples of restrictive policies that have been modified through the hard work of geocachers.

[+Manville Possum]

http://www.towamencin.org/parkandrec.htm

 

A township in my area called Towamencin Township, which has a lot of really nice and beautiful parks has banned geocaching.

 

I can't grasp why they would do this. Why would they ban geocaching?

 

I have worked with Parks in the Commonwealth of Virginia, Kentucky, and the State of Tennessee. New cache placements are banned in all State Parks in Tennessee, and must be reapproved every 12 months. Virtual caches and waymarks are the ONLY types of non-caches that are allowed in many Parks. I lobbyed to have geocaches in Parks in Virginia. My point is that all Rangers need to be able to operate a GPS unit, cell phones lose service, but the location of the last transmission is recorded. This can aid a Ranger in finding a lost hiker. Myself and others also spoke with our local Sheriffs and explained geocaching to them. Our County hosts geocaching events during our Clinch Mountain Music festival as a means of promoting geotourism, and geocaching. Myself, DBWT, Scott County Tourism, and Clinch_Mtn_Cachers and others have worked hard to promote geocaching and Groundspeak. I have almost given up geocaching because I enjoy the Waymarking site, and I am able to better contribute to Waymarking to take users to historical sites that are interesting. Most of my historical geocaches are water proof match boxes that are easy park and grabs with good coordinates and no PMO caches. My historical caches have related web sites, and are placed in historically accurate locations. I won't waste my time to waste your time, I enjoy developing caches for you to enjoy.

 

I should avoid these forums, I know that many of my posts disagree with the site moderators and sometimes the guidelines. So feel free to make personal attacks on this account, you don't have to worry about a moderator stepping in to defend me. It is OpenSeason on Possums year round. But do remember that I support geocaching and Groundspeak. I am still a PM on this site, until I am banned for my opinion being different than a site moderators. I don't kick dogs, delete logs, but I do enjoy gigging frogs for food. They taste like chicken wings.

[+simpjkee]

They were upset when they found out why their sprinklerheads kept breaking.

[+John in Valley Forge]

This policy has been in place for more than two years.

 

Yes, some people do not worry about the accuracy or timeliness of their information when they cry wolf.

[+TerraViators]

This is going to become more and more common as Groundspeak continues to turn a blind eye to power trails, caches on private property without permission, and other careless cache practices.

But they don't. Haven't you heard?

[+Coldgears]

This policy has been in place for more than two years.

 

Yes, some people do not worry about the accuracy or timeliness of their information when they cry wolf.

 

There you go again with the insults. I didn't cry wolf. I asked why they banned it.

 

http://coord.info/GC2MCE0

 

Hidden 2 days ago suggest they just started banning

[+John in Valley Forge]

This policy has been in place for more than two years.

 

Yes, some people do not worry about the accuracy or timeliness of their information when they cry wolf.

 

There you go again with the insults. I didn't cry wolf. I asked why they banned it.

 

http://coord.info/GC2MCE0

 

Hidden 2 days ago suggest they just started banning

That cache is not hidden in the park so it says nothing of the timing of the ban. Keystone indicates that it has been that way for quite some time.

Asking someone at the park might give you good information.

Making the blanket statement that "Geocaches are starting to get banned locally" is in my opinion, crying wolf.

Towamencin parks consist of what, 300ish acres in 10 sites?

Is this really a global issue? I'm only 10 miles away and I don't consider this local to me.

[+Coldgears]

I'm only 10 miles away and I don't consider this local to me.

Seriously? It takes like 20 minutes to go 10 miles. That's literally no time at all.

 

EDIT: That's with lights. On an interstate you can do it in less then 10 minutes.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Coldgears

[+John in Valley Forge]

I'm only 10 miles away and I don't consider this local to me.

Seriously? It takes like 20 minutes to go 10 miles. That's literally no time at all.

 

EDIT: That's with lights. On an interstate you can do it in less then 10 minutes.

Apparently you don't drive around here too much around here. Pedestrians should be thankful.

[jholly]

This is going to become more and more common as Groundspeak continues to turn a blind eye to power trails, caches on private property without permission, and other careless cache practices.

Definitely. As power trails become more prevalent the number of bomb scares will grow exponentially. What use to be a isolated case of a film canister placed in a light pole will now become a major disaster as the bomb squad will have to shut down miles and miles of highway to properly investigate and dispose of all the film canisters with paper in them. It will take them days and countless hours of overtime.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I can't grasp why they would do this. Why would they ban geocaching?

 

The only way to find out is to ask them!

 

It's not like this is the first time caches have been banned from an area.

[Keystone]

The only way to find out is to ask them!

Here is the original communication issued by the Township in winter 2008:

 

The Township first learned of the hobby of geocaching this past summer. While we can appreciate the enthusiasm of those who participate in the activity, we must balance that with the concern for public safety and the efficient use of our limited staff and police resources. Within the last two months an individual was observed abandoning an ammunition box in one of our parks that is adjacent to a bridge over the turnpike. Although it was subsequently learned that it was a geocacher, this generated an emergency police response and investigation. Additionally, current park and recreation programs have priority demands on our limited staff time which preclude the research and preparation that would be necessary for the development of any geocaching policy. Consequently, Towamencin does not permit the placement of geocaches on Township property.

[+johnsingleton1974]

JMO, wouldnt an ammo can make a terrible bomb? Its pretty sealed shut, but what do I know about bombs. Except those things are made to hold ammo, which contains gun powder, explosives in large quantities, they are made to restrict the damage to the ammo. This leads me to believe they are relitivley resistant to things that would ignite, they are water tight, it just seems silly to think an ammo can could possibly be a bomb out in the middle of the woods, if it were really going to terrorise someone, wouldnt it do more damage mentally and psychologically in the middle of a downtown area?

[+Manville Possum]

JMO, wouldnt an ammo can make a terrible bomb? Its pretty sealed shut, but what do I know about bombs. Except those things are made to hold ammo, which contains gun powder, explosives in large quantities, they are made to restrict the damage to the ammo. This leads me to believe they are relitivley resistant to things that would ignite, they are water tight, it just seems silly to think an ammo can could possibly be a bomb out in the middle of the woods, if it were really going to terrorise someone, wouldnt it do more damage mentally and psychologically in the middle of a downtown area?

Yes, ammo cans are quite destructive IED's. They are banned in most Parks just like PVC pipe hides.

Please read the giudelines.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Manville Possum Hunters

[+texasgrillchef]

My wife has family in the PA area.

 

We travel over 15,000 miles or more a year in travel.

 

I just shot off an email as listed on their website to the City council, letting them know how important GEOCACHING is for TOURISM AND TOURISTS.

 

I simply informed them, that when I am in the area, that I will simply make sure I bypass their town & thus they won't get any of my tourist dollars. Hotel, food, gas etc... I will simply process to the next town so that I don't spend any of my money in their town.

 

If they get enough out of town tourists telling them that they will simply bypass their town. They may think otherwise. Then again... Who knows.

 

Remember this country is a capatalistic society. We get to VOTE with HOW we spend our dollars.

 

TGC

[+Scooter Rider]

http://www.towamencin.org/parkandrec.htm

 

A township in my area called Towamencin Township, which has a lot of really nice and beautiful parks has banned geocaching.

 

I can't grasp why they would do this. Why would they ban geocaching?

 

Its a case of we have met the enemy and he is us.

 

All it took was one person saying.

I got mine and the heck with any one else.

There just guidelines not rules after all.

And I will play it any way I want to.

To ruin things for every one.

 

We need to remember that.

Are individual actions can have a negative impact on the whole community.

 

Trust is hard earned and easily lost

Edited January 17, 2011 by Scooter Rider

[Mr.Yuck]

Fahget about it. We're fine. We need to find ways to grow Geocaching, and integrate it with Foursquare. Sorry, just kidding. If this is really a two year old policy as stated by Keystone, I don't see the point of this thread. Most especially the title of it.

[+johnsingleton1974]

JMO, wouldnt an ammo can make a terrible bomb? Its pretty sealed shut, but what do I know about bombs. Except those things are made to hold ammo, which contains gun powder, explosives in large quantities, they are made to restrict the damage to the ammo. This leads me to believe they are relitivley resistant to things that would ignite, they are water tight, it just seems silly to think an ammo can could possibly be a bomb out in the middle of the woods, if it were really going to terrorise someone, wouldnt it do more damage mentally and psychologically in the middle of a downtown area?

Yes, ammo cans are quite destructive IED's. They are banned in most Parks just like PVC pipe hides.

Please read the giudelines.

 

Oh, oops. Thank for the correction.

[+Castle Mischief]

JMO, wouldnt an ammo can make a terrible bomb? Its pretty sealed shut, but what do I know about bombs. Except those things are made to hold ammo, which contains gun powder, explosives in large quantities, they are made to restrict the damage to the ammo. This leads me to believe they are relitivley resistant to things that would ignite, they are water tight, it just seems silly to think an ammo can could possibly be a bomb out in the middle of the woods, if it were really going to terrorise someone, wouldnt it do more damage mentally and psychologically in the middle of a downtown area?

Yes, ammo cans are quite destructive IED's. They are banned in most Parks just like PVC pipe hides.

Please read the giudelines.

 

Which part of the guidelines covers ammo cans and their similarities to PVC pipe hides?

 

While I wouldn't go so far as to cover my ammo can with circuit boards, or paint a big red "BOMB" on it and attached a digital clock to the outside, I think it's safe to say, considering the variety of objects that have been rendered safe, that anything at any time can be considered a possible bomb. I don't think the story would have been any different if it had been a film can.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Castle Mischief

[Keystone]

Which part of the guidelines covers ammo cans and their similarities to PVC pipe hides?

This part, in the first long paragraph.

 

That addresses the use of an ammo can at an inappropriate location. That's in addition to the highway bridges guideline. I think I'll start using this example when people tell me that there's a park underneath the interstate bridge, so the cache is OK. That happens a lot.

[+Castle Mischief]

Which part of the guidelines covers ammo cans and their similarities to PVC pipe hides?

This part, in the first long paragraph.

 

That addresses the use of an ammo can at an inappropriate location. That's in addition to the highway bridges guideline. I think I'll start using this example when people tell me that there's a park underneath the interstate bridge, so the cache is OK. That happens a lot.

 

Huh. I sit corrected. I wonder what the ratio of ammo cans to "clear plastic container(s) or a microcache(s)" is in the history of caches that have been removed by bomb squads...

Edited January 17, 2011 by Castle Mischief

[+joranda]

That is why most state parks that allow caches in their parks tell you that they have to be clear cache containers. Which in turn you have to hide it a bit better so it does not get muggled. A clear container stands to stick out a bit more. Always ask if you can place it, it saves headaches on down the road.

[+Manville Possum]

Which part of the guidelines covers ammo cans and their similarities to PVC pipe hides?

This part, in the first long paragraph.

 

That addresses the use of an ammo can at an inappropriate location. That's in addition to the highway bridges guideline. I think I'll start using this example when people tell me that there's a park underneath the interstate bridge, so the cache is OK. That happens a lot.

Guidelines about ammo cans and PVC pipe caches can also be found in our State Parks guidelines on geocaching.

http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/geocache.shtml

Edited January 17, 2011 by Manville Possum Hunters

[+Manville Possum]

That is why most state parks that allow caches in their parks tell you that they have to be clear cache containers. Which in turn you have to hide it a bit better so it does not get muggled. A clear container stands to stick out a bit more. Always ask if you can place it, it saves headaches on down the road.

Our Parks in Virginia also require a VSP approved geocache sticker to be placed on the container, which they supply.

[AZcachemeister]

This is going to become more and more common as Groundspeak continues to turn a blind eye to power trails, caches on private property without permission, and other careless cache practices.

 

WORD

 

[Mr.Yuck]

This policy has been in place for more than two years.

 

Yes, some people do not worry about the accuracy or timeliness of their information when they cry wolf.

 

There you go again with the insults. I didn't cry wolf. I asked why they banned it.

 

http://coord.info/GC2MCE0

 

Hidden 2 days ago suggest they just started banning

That cache is not hidden in the park so it says nothing of the timing of the ban. Keystone indicates that it has been that way for quite some time.

Asking someone at the park might give you good information.

Making the blanket statement that "Geocaches are starting to get banned locally" is in my opinion, crying wolf.

Towamencin parks consist of what, 300ish acres in 10 sites?

Is this really a global issue? I'm only 10 miles away and I don't consider this local to me.

 

I've posted to this thread, but I just noticed that link. So if a Town bans Geocaching, it results in a series of parking lot micros? dadgum you Towamencin Township, dadgum you. In all seriousness though, it almost sounds as if this Cache Owner thinks he can't place Geocaches anywhere in Towamencin Township. But it sounds to me like just Town property, as in Town Parks. He could go to Town, no pun intended, with his parking lot micros. Unless the Pa. reviewers have decided not to publish any caches in that Town, in wake of the ban.

[+hzoi]

JMO, wouldnt an ammo can make a terrible bomb? Its pretty sealed shut, but what do I know about bombs. Except those things are made to hold ammo, which contains gun powder, explosives in large quantities, they are made to restrict the damage to the ammo. This leads me to believe they are relitivley resistant to things that would ignite, they are water tight...

 

As someone with a rough familiarity with explosives, I'd argue you want bombs to be relatively sealed -- that's generally how they generate explosive pressure. Bullets are sealed, with a lesser seal around the projectile round itself so that it will be propelled out of the casing. Hand grenades are sealed, but scored around the inside of the grenade so that the casing fragments into shrapnel. If you try lighting a black powder charge without a good seal to it, you end up with a flare, not an explosion.

 

Ammo cans are designed to shield bullets from dents and debris, keep them dry and free from corrosion, not to keep them from exploding.

 

That said...

 

...it just seems silly to think an ammo can could possibly be a bomb out in the middle of the woods, if it were really going to terrorise someone, wouldnt it do more damage mentally and psychologically in the middle of a downtown area?

 

yes, you are correct, an ammo can in the woods would not be a very efficient improvised explosive device (IED).