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Coupons as swag...


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I predict an early demise for this thread.

 

Coupons do not make a cache commercial. In the long run they only offer the cacher the option to use them. They don't force a cacher to go to a business and they don't use a cache page as an advertisement. However, if you stuff a cache to overflowing with coupons for a buddies sandwich shop you aren't going to make any friends.

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Swag and trackables aren't covered by the "commercial" guidelines, if I understand correctly.

 

Lots of people put "FTF prizes" in their caches, very often coupons for local eateries or in the case of those of us up here, Tim Hortons coupons.

 

Only the cache listing itself is covered by the "commercial" guidelines, no?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.

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Swag and trackables aren't covered by the "commercial" guidelines, if I understand correctly.

 

Lots of people put "FTF prizes" in their caches, very often coupons for local eateries or in the case of those of us up here, Tim Hortons coupons.

 

Only the cache listing itself is covered by the "commercial" guidelines, no?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.

Uh oh! No more peanut butter jars. All those cachers in the peanut butter industry are sneaky.

 

Seriously, IMO you could argue that a PB jar or an Altoids® tin is a commercial cache container. I know intent would have to be proven, but if the creator(s) of Altoids® hides caches in an Altoids® tin to promote the product, how would we know? These tins are as much as an advertisement as an ad at a sporting event.

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However, if you stuff a cache to overflowing with coupons for a buddies sandwich shop you aren't going to make any friends.

You'd make at least one friend - I'd love to get a free sandwich for finding a cache!

 

:laughing: Most of the free sandwiches in the world are worth what you paid for 'em. A pack of coupons that would fill a cache are either gonna all go to the next finder or they will end up a soggy, messy, lump in the bottom of the cache.

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The cache container itself and/or the listing page contents can make a cache commercial. Trade items generally shouldn't so long as they are not mentioned on the cache listing page.

I disagree that the cache container itself makes a cache commercial. Otherwise you couldn't use anything that had a product or company name stamp on it, or any containers that would easily recognized as once holding a specific product. There's an awful lot of Altoids tin caches that would have to be archived if this were the case (not to mention Tuperware).

 

The commercial guideline generally prevents the cache listing from being used as an advertisement. The other issue is a cache that requires the finder to make a purchase. This was later expanded to include caches where the finder must go inside a business and/or interact with employees. The feeling was this could cause a undo level of pressure on cachers to purchase something - even if the cache page clearly indicated that no purchase is necessary to log the cache. I think we miss out on some very fun caches this way, but it also prevents the ones where the business owner or employee didn't get the idea of caching being non-commercial and pressured you to buy something anyhow.

 

As far as swag, there are very few rules as to what swag you can put in a cache. Some cachers routinely leave pre-paid cards or coupons for free items in caches. As long as you don't use the cache page as advertisement - "Visit Joe's and use the coupons in thc cache for 15% off" - you're OK.

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The guideline about commercial caches doesn't apply to swag (unless you make a big fuss about the swag on the cache page). It certainly doesn't apply to swag that other people put into the cache after the fact.

 

That being said, if you're thinking about putting coupons into a cache as swag, there are ethics and taste considerations to take into account. Is the coupon for something really cool, or is it something that nobody is likely to want - 15% off a hot tub installation comes to mind (yes, I saw this in a cache once)? Are you putting the coupons in the cache because you think people will want them, or because you're trying to get people out to your friend's new business? It may not be against the guidelines to use geocaches to exploit people in such a manner, but it's in poor taste.

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Seriously, IMO you could argue that a PB jar or an Altoids® tin is a commercial cache container. I know intent would have to be proven, but if the creator(s) of Altoids® hides caches in an Altoids® tin to promote the product, how would we know? These tins are as much as an advertisement as an ad at a sporting event.

 

So ammo cans are just a subliminal advertisement for your local Army recruiter?

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Seriously, IMO you could argue that a PB jar or an Altoids® tin is a commercial cache container. I know intent would have to be proven, but if the creator(s) of Altoids® hides caches in an Altoids® tin to promote the product, how would we know? These tins are as much as an advertisement as an ad at a sporting event.

 

:wacko:

 

Good grief, no.

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Do coupons create a commercial cache?

 

If someone drops a coupon into a cache as swag, that does not make the cache a commercial cache.

 

However, if a cache is placed with a container full of coupons for a particular business then it would fall under the commercial cache rule. (We had a somewhat similar situation come up in our area a while back.)

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An additional comment...

 

As you may have noticed by the comments, if you are asking because you want to place coupons in caches then you might want to rethink that plan. The coupons have a short shelf life before moisture and handling destroys them in the caches, leaving a mess. Those that survive often get CITO'd and, as was also pointed out, it creates a negative impression with many cachers. It's a REALLY bad way to advertise.

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I personally wouldn't want coupons in a cache. It's still just an advertisement for a good or service. Plus, it's been brought up that they will just end up as soggy trash in the bottom of the container. I don't think I'd put them in a cache, and I have definitely removed some and took them with me in a CITO bag.

 

I don't think I'd remove a couple of coupons from a cache because they are commercial in nature. If they had reached the soggy mess stage or had expired yes, they are trash in need of removal.

 

There is a subtle difference between me sharing a coupon with you, my geocaching friend, and the owner of the sub shop using geocaches as a distribution network for his latest ad campaign.

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Do coupons create a commercial cache?

 

If someone drops a coupon into a cache as swag, that does not make the cache a commercial cache.

 

However, if a cache is placed with a container full of coupons for a particular business then it would fall under the commercial cache rule. (We had a somewhat similar situation come up in our area a while back.)

I disagree. If someone put coupons in their cache it would not be a commercial cache. A commercial cache is on that uses the cache page in a way that can be seen advertising or that requires a cacher to enter a business or interact with employees to log the cache. The cache owner can put what every they want in the cache for trade items so long as it complies with the contents section of the guidelines. If you actually had a situation a while back in your area where a cache was archived solely because it had coupons in it, I would like to know about it.
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The cache owner can put what every they want in the cache for trade items so long as it complies with the contents section of the guidelines. If you actually had a situation a while back in your area where a cache was archived solely because it had coupons in it, I would like to know about it.

 

Three caches were archived because the nature of the caches was commercial. Each cache was filled with items advertising for that business. The CO had an agreement with the associated businesses in an effort to promote their businesses. It all boils down to intent and this was a case where the intent was very clearly commercial. The contents of the container were an integral part of the promotion. I'm NOT saying that a cache owner throwing in a coupon book is making a cache commercial, that isn't the case.

 

I thought GOF perfectly stated it:

There is a subtle difference between me sharing a coupon with you, my geocaching friend, and the owner of the sub shop using geocaches as a distribution network for his latest ad campaign.

 

The caches I was referring to were part of an organized campaign.

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However, if you stuff a cache to overflowing with coupons for a buddies sandwich shop you aren't going to make any friends.

You'd make at least one friend - I'd love to get a free sandwich for finding a cache!

 

:laughing: Most of the free sandwiches in the world are worth what you paid for 'em. A pack of coupons that would fill a cache are either gonna all go to the next finder or they will end up a soggy, messy, lump in the bottom of the cache.

 

Sounds more like a case for a bad container that shouldn't even have a logbook in it.

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The part from the previous thread that seemed to be completely overlooked by those who wanted to take issue with it was the fact the CO contacted Groundspeak first and received the okay to do it. He even posted the response he received from Groundspeak.

 

Having a cache outside the restaurant and putting coupons in the cache is fine. You will want to make sure that the cache name and cache description do not refer to the cafe. The cache itself can not be commercial. Your reviewer should be able to help you with any small issues you might run into such as distance from another cache and they will double check the description and name to make sure it is not commercial.

Best Regards,

Jessica

 

The bolded emphasis was mine. That to me seems to answer the question right there.

 

On a personal note, if I found a coupon in a cache for a free sandwich... Alright! Free Sandwich!!! Honestly though 95% of the time I don't even notice the swag in the cache at all. I may take a quick glance for coins or bugs and then just sign the logbook. If some coupons sitting in a cache somewhere really upset you that much, I would venture to guess there is not enough stress in your life. ;):D

Cheers! B)

Edited by ace862
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However, if you stuff a cache to overflowing with coupons for a buddies sandwich shop you aren't going to make any friends.

You'd make at least one friend - I'd love to get a free sandwich for finding a cache!

 

:laughing: Most of the free sandwiches in the world are worth what you paid for 'em. A pack of coupons that would fill a cache are either gonna all go to the next finder or they will end up a soggy, messy, lump in the bottom of the cache.

 

Sounds more like a case for a bad container that shouldn't even have a logbook in it.

 

Perhaps, but that is another topic. My point was that they usually end up as trash. They get mangled, torn, and expire in the bottom of even the best containers.

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Surprised to see the response from GS. I've seen countless caches with a business name in the title or description.

 

You would need to look at the time frame involved. Frequently, when GC makes a guideline cache, it does not filter back through all caches to require a change. That is called grandfathering. "Not naming the business" is a fairly new change. (Maybe two/three years?) Ones hidden before the change were permitted to continue without having to make a change. New ones are not permitted.

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Surprised to see the response from GS. I've seen countless caches with a business name in the title or description.

 

You would need to look at the time frame involved. Frequently, when GC makes a guideline cache, it does not filter back through all caches to require a change. That is called grandfathering. "Not naming the business" is a fairly new change. (Maybe two/three years?) Ones hidden before the change were permitted to continue without having to make a change. New ones are not permitted.

Right. Alos, how is the reviewer going to know if the cache title is a business title unless it's something ubiquitous like Wal-mart or Burger King, etc. Tri-County Plumbing Supply may or may not be the title of a business.

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