I found a cache, but my pen isn't working ... :)

January 15, 2011

Hi all,

In the name of honesty, would you say that it's better to find a cache twice, knowing that you were able to sign it the second time if you weren't able to the first time?

I'm all for supporting honesty etc and was wondering what others' opinions are. I've had two finds in the past where my pen hasn't worked (same day and yes, I should be using a pencil hehe) but I went back later and signed with a working pen.

Thoughts?

1.4k · January 15, 2011

Find = Signed log. That's my opinion with a few exceptions. Not that my opinion matters....

8.6k · January 15, 2011

We expect cachers to sign the log but if someone sent a note saying, "Found the cache. Sorry, my pen didn't work but I've taken a photo of the cache to prove I found it and will send it to you if you want - is that OK?" then we'd happily let them log it.

Some cachers have been known to leave a muddy thumbprint instead!

MrsB

1.4k · January 15, 2011

Maybe carry two pens?

13.7k · January 15, 2011

A "cacher" in our area was notorious for "Found the cache. Forgot my pen. I'll be back to sign later." - followed by a found smiley.

Some are over two years now, with no sig in log.

Once he even claimed a FTF while "forgetting his pen" ( we were the first to sign the log.)

So like FOG said ... Find = signed log.

9.3k · January 15, 2011

In the name of honesty...

I don't think honesty has much to do with this, on an individual level. Failing to sign a log has little to do with morals or scruples. For instance, if I go out in the swamp hunting an ammo can, and I locate it, trade swag and return it without ever signing the log, then I post something to the cache page stating I had located it, traded swag and returned it without signing the log, whether my post is in the form of a Note, a DNF or a Found It, have I not been perfectly honest in describing what I did? In my opinion, morality doesn't come into play unless I am attempting to deceive someone. For instance, if I sat on my couch and posted something to a cache page claiming that I hunted the cache, located it, but couldn't sign because I forgot my pen, that would be dishonest.

On a similar note; I have two entirely contradictory standards as regards to log signing.

1 ) For caches I hunt, I will not post a Found It unless my name is in the log. No exceptions.

2 ) For caches I own, I am perfectly willing to accept your word that you located my cache. If you can't sign the log, I'm OK with that.

7.3k · January 15, 2011

I've had two finds in the past where my pen hasn't worked ...if you weren't able to the first time?

dude, that's what blood is for....

January 15, 2011

I have only had something similar happen once, with a Nano. I found the cache, had my pen, but couldn't get the stupid log out. I think there is a good exception there.

38.2k · January 15, 2011

I've found caches and had no pen or pencil. In one case I used the ashes from the lit end of a cigar to sign. On several other instances I used the end of a twig dipped in mud to sign. In another I used a rolled up green leaf to do it. I recall one cacher who said he used his blood. I wouldn't recommend that because of the yuk factor, but the point is there is nearly always something you can use to sign.

5.3k · January 15, 2011

Yep, blood, dirt, grass, sticks .... lots of things can be used to sign the log.

19k · January 15, 2011

I have only had something similar happen once, with a Nano. I found the cache, had my pen, but couldn't get the stupid log out. I think there is a good exception there.

Forgot your tweezers, huh? :huh:

January 15, 2011

I just love those logs (wet) that fall apart while trying to sign with the Write-in-the-Rain pen I count those as finds and make a note about the wet log so that the CO can do some maintenance.

2.2k · January 15, 2011

I am totally OK with logging a Find when I forget to bring a pen. On occassion if I am passing the cache again I stop in and properly sign, other times I never bother.

If I have my phone I'll take a spoiler picture and offer to send it to the owner if they would like further proof. Or, I'll offer to provide more specific detail to the owner if they would like. Never had anyone ask for either of those yet.

I think a lot of it has to do with reputation in your community. Many people in our caching community know me and know where I stand on these things. Other cachers have a reputation for "if they think they saw the rock where the cache is hidden beside as they drive by they can call it a Find" and might not get that sort of reaction.

I'm sure if I were traveling in a different city and started logging caches with no signature I might see a different reaction as well.

As a note for those who sign with blood, grass, mud, etc -- please don't do that in my caches. :lol: To me that's just making a mess of the logbook. I'd rather you just explain the situation to me if I question that validity of your Find.

January 15, 2011

It is ultimately up to the cache owner to decide IMO. I believe that if your pen failed, then you still found the cache, and can log it online if the cache owner doesn't object. However, if you simply saw the cache from the car while driving by, that is not quite a "find" in my book.

6.7k · January 15, 2011

I am not that big a stickler on logging. Unless it is a part of the challenge to get to the log. A monkey puzzle or climb or some such requires proof. That is what the signature is. But don't post a spoiler picture.

11.6k · January 15, 2011

Maybe carry two pens?

Yes. And test them. If a pen's broken, it's likely to still not work when you arrive at the cache.

If you're going through life with a broken pen, you've got more than a Geocaching issue.

Edited January 15, 2011 by kunarion

2.2k · January 15, 2011

i used my metal key chain to sign a couple of logs once. there is always a way to sign the log.

January 15, 2011

I need some sort of evidence (to be shown in or of my caches and provided in others caches). If I don't have a pen and don't feel like messing up someone's log-book with icor, I'll take a picture with my crummy camera phone or scratch something down with a key. I am rarely pen-less, but never key AND phone-less.

I guess my need for proof comes from my work with children. Some are angels and take to geocaching as if it were cooler than Star Wars (I know... crazy, right?), but some are pretty shady about it. In my experience, children are just smaller adults.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Suzalynn

January 15, 2011

My caches go with the theory of if your name isn't in the logbook, it isn't on the webpage. If for whatever reason you can't sign it (despite the pencil in the cache, etc), I'd accept if they took a picture of them with the cache and posted it on the site. Otherwise, unless they have some direct physical evidence of locating the cache, then their name isn't staying on the website.

On a related note, when I happened to be caching at a time when it just happened to be convenient, but didn't have a pen, I coincidentally had a fork with me, and scratched in my initials as best I could. Course, having unique signature items, where I have various sizes to fit in any cache size, also helped. The next cacher found my sig item and filled in my name with ink instead of just the indent in the paper

Edited January 15, 2011 by Kabuthunk

January 15, 2011

Geocaching is a game I play with my children. I thank the others out there for hiding these wonderful caches and I too have hidden a few myself.

In my opinion for me and my children, I don't care if someone logs a find online but doesn't sing the log. I don't even care if they never found it and logged it. What I really enjoy about hiding is the stories that I read about a cacher finding my cache. If someone logs online without ever really finding it I think it's their loss.

As for my pen not working when I'm signing a log, I always carry a lighter as part of my caching equipment. I live in Montana and the fear of being lost in the mountains and needing to start a fire has led me to this decision. I have found myself running out of ink and finding a stick on the ground and burning it to use it to write with. If all else fails I still log that I found it online because it's MY game and if I signed untruthfully I'm only lying to myself.

I'm addicted to having fun with my kids Geocaching.

4.2k · January 15, 2011

I recently bent my personal "sign=found" rule. I couldn't get the container out of its hiding spot and further attempts wold have resulted in a container that nobody would have been able to retrieve so I logged a find on it and made it clear what the problem was. The difficulty and description did not lead me to believe that getting the container out was part of the "concept" of the cache. If it had been something like a locked cache with clues to the combination that would have been different.

Short version- there can be exceptions. It's really up to you and the cache owner.

7.3k · January 15, 2011

I've only had that happen a couple times. The reason for the logbook is to prove that you found the cache. So I think that taking a photo of the logbook and the cache is proof enough. I always have my camera with me, so that's no problem.

4.3k · January 15, 2011

I log a find ONCE, no matter how many times I visit. As others also mentioned, if I can't sign on my first visit I'll email the cache owner a photo as proof of find, and come back later with a working pen.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Portland Cyclist

1.8k · January 15, 2011

I once saw a PBS documentary about geocaching where a cacher bragged about not having a pen so he cut himself and bled on the logbook to prove he was there.

I'd rather take your word for it.

5.2k · January 15, 2011

There have been 3 times when I was unable to sign the log due to a missing/malfunctional pen. The first time, I had a travel bug with me so I left it in the cache as proof I was there. The other 2 times I returned the next day to ink my name properly.

Now there have also been a few times when I was unable to sign a micro or nano logsheet because it was beyond full, and I didn't have a replacement. My comment to the cache owner in those cases is "try to prove I didn't sign the log!" :lol:

January 15, 2011

I just love those logs (wet) that fall apart while trying to sign with the Write-in-the-Rain pen I count those as finds and make a note about the wet log so that the CO can do some maintenance.

I just love it when folks log one of my caches by saying, "The log was soaked so we replaced it for you. Thanks for the cache."

15.3k · January 15, 2011

Yep, blood, dirt, grass, sticks .... lots of things can be used to sign the log.

Yep. I've always signed with a pen or pencil (usually one of my own, but occasionally one found in the cache), but I've seen several logs with "creative" signatures using improvised materials.

January 16, 2011

I've had to do it a couple of times with a burnt twig. I think signing in blood is gross. That's like leaving a hair sample or something. What am I going to do, DNA test it?

On my caches, if you forget your pen or the one in the cache doesn't work then as long as you can sign it somehow legibly (burnt match, leaves, etc) then it's cool with me.

1.1k · January 16, 2011

I carry a pencil and a felt tip. Plus a digital camera, if nothing else works I email the owner a photo. But if you do that be sure to email it, not post it ono the log.

January 16, 2011

I'm fairly lenient with my caches, but I don't like online logs that blatantly state that they didn't sign the log, unless it is a real maint. issue. I've had monkey see, monkey do actions on my caches before. One in particular had very little action in a normally popular area of town. I had one or two dnfs and a few, found it logs admitting that it took more than one visit, plus some emails, asking for help. Then a cacher posted that he found it, but it needed some maint. and didn't elaborate. He then emailed me in private and told me one of the fasteners was loose. Not a big problem, since the other was fine for the moment. I then had several found it claims over the next two days, but they couldn't sign the log for various maint. related reasons. NONE of which were true. Cache was fine, even the loose fastener, wasn't going anywhere. I'm still more of the sign it to equal a find, but it's not generally worth the hassle to question it, but I do ask them to modify their online log, to curb the issue.

5.7k · January 16, 2011

I've only had that happen a couple times. The reason for the logbook is to prove that you found the cache. So I think that taking a photo of the logbook and the cache is proof enough. I always have my camera with me, so that's no problem.

I do the same thing, I like photos. But we both are known Waymarkers..........

3.3k · January 16, 2011

Mud, blood, dandelion juice. All work in a pinch or a cut. Anything unique to verify the visit. :lol:

7.3k · January 16, 2011

I've only had that happen a couple times. The reason for the logbook is to prove that you found the cache. So I think that taking a photo of the logbook and the cache is proof enough. I always have my camera with me, so that's no problem.

I do the same thing, I like photos. But we both are known Waymarkers..........

This is true. My camera is practically a part of my body. :laughing:

January 16, 2011

For myself, if I find the cache but I can't sign the log AND it's my fault (i.e. no pen, pen won't work, etc.) I go back later and sign. Won't log the find until I do. Won't log a DNF either, after all I did find it. On the other side of the equation, if I find the cache but can't sign the log and it's NOT my fault (i.e. log full, wet sodden mess that is impossible to sign, etc.)I'll take a picture and claim the find. And log a needs maintenance. I hope people will treat our caches the same but don't expect it because I know how people are.

3.3k · January 16, 2011

I've only had that happen a couple times. The reason for the logbook is to prove that you found the cache. So I think that taking a photo of the logbook and the cache is proof enough. I always have my camera with me, so that's no problem.

I do the same thing, I like photos. But we both are known Waymarkers..........

This is true. My camera is practically a part of my body.

The Ambrosia Cam. The possibilities are endless!

Edit: speeling

Edited January 16, 2011 by WRASTRO

1.4k · January 16, 2011

I'm going to add on a bit to my previous post. I'm with Riffster. I really don't care about you signing my log. I won't log a find unless I sign yours (with very few exceptions). If I have reason to believe you didn't sign my log, I'll exhaust every possibility before deleting a log.

January 16, 2011

Lol wow, I had no idea the question would start a thread this long. Some of the answers are funny as anything. :-D

Thanks to everyone that responded - you've confirmed my suspicions beyond anything I'd expected, i.e. most prefer for a find to only be valid if there's proof of some sort. The idea of taking a photo then having it available as proof is a good one.

I'm new-ish to geocaching (in terms of finds, mostly) and it's great to get all these responses.

Thanks! :-D

7.3k · January 16, 2011

I've only had that happen a couple times. The reason for the logbook is to prove that you found the cache. So I think that taking a photo of the logbook and the cache is proof enough. I always have my camera with me, so that's no problem.

I do the same thing, I like photos. But we both are known Waymarkers..........

This is true. My camera is practically a part of my body.

The Ambrosia Cam. The possibilities are endless!

Edit: speeling

:laughing: I could waymark myself.

7.3k · January 16, 2011

Lol wow, I had no idea the question would start a thread this long. Some of the answers are funny as anything. :-D

Thanks to everyone that responded - you've confirmed my suspicions beyond anything I'd expected, i.e. most prefer for a find to only be valid if there's proof of some sort. The idea of taking a photo then having it available as proof is a good one.

I'm new-ish to geocaching (in terms of finds, mostly) and it's great to get all these responses.

Thanks! :-D

As people have mentioned, it ultimately up to the cache owner, but I think that most reasonable owners will understand the principle and be fine with a picture.

January 16, 2011

I've found caches and had no pen or pencil. In one case I used the ashes from the lit end of a cigar to sign. On several other instances I used the end of a twig dipped in mud to sign. In another I used a rolled up green leaf to do it. I recall one cacher who said he used his blood. I wouldn't recommend that because of the yuk factor, but the point is there is nearly always something you can use to sign.

I have my trusty Fisher Space Pen, tethered to the GPS'r lanyard, check let's cache then! Well it broke my home made tether one day, and I had trekked to a cache was about to SL, when I realized the afore mentioned was no longer. I searched my bag and amazingly all my back up instruments were AWOL.

This was just a one time deal,I have read logs, pen lost, pen not working, wrote in mud, etc, well that will never ever happen, I mean how hard is it to keep a pen pencil? Well here I am in that very situation, what to do, tried the mud, nope that just would not work , thought about blood, but that seemed well icky at least. Well thought back to McGyver, what would he do, thinking back it was more fun figuring out how to SL than finding the CC, but a solution did come, sooner than later, with a BIC/Match or twig.

Like the cigar, I smoke, and carry matches, and a BIC lighter, armed with them, and a very thin twig, I sharpened the end like a pencil with the ol pocket knife, burnt it, put it out, and used the reserve charcoal as "ink", also had to pre-carved my initials ever so slightly with the PK, just to help make the coal pencil take hold, and make sig more readable, and hopefully last till confirmation by CO! (LOL).

Today, I have a new Fisher, all is well, and have replenished the lost collection of writing instruments! But sure it will happen again, and well I am not as concerned as I once was.Unless it happens at a Nano,LOL then what?

1.7k · January 16, 2011

Signing the log isn't very important to me. I rarely bring a pen with me, I want to find the cache, trade swag and be done. If there's a pen in it, I'll sign it. If not, oh well. I still log it anyway.

1.3k · January 16, 2011

I always carry a backup quill and ink bottle in case my ball-point doesn't work. Sometimes, in a crunch, I carry my portable printer, print my signature with my USB sig pad, print the text, cut it to size, grab my bottle of glue or tape and add my sig to the the log...but I'm a stickler for the rules, I guess.

January 16, 2011

I always carry a backup quill and ink bottle in case my ball-point doesn't work. Sometimes, in a crunch, I carry my portable printer, print my signature with my USB sig pad, print the text, cut it to size, grab my bottle of glue or tape and add my sig to the the log...but I'm a stickler for the rules, I guess.

Now you're talkin'. Personally I'd prefer to take a photo of the log, fire up Photoshop on my laptop, 'retouch' the photo so that my signature is clearly visible, recreate all previous entries in the log with the USB designers' tablet that I always carry then log a find.

Nobody would even know ..................................................... :-P

1.4k · January 16, 2011

As has often been said on these forums, this is a game. like most games rules and play vary from place to place. With Geocaching it often varies from player to player.

I go out of my way to try to have something to sign with. If I cannot sign the log, there would have to be good reason to log on line. Otherwise, for me I would have to wait until I returned to log it.

That being said, if you are comfortable with logging it on line, without a signature in the cache, go for it. Some COs might delete the log most wouldn't. I know I wouldn't.

January 17, 2011

If my pen isn't working I still use it to score my initials into the logbook. If I've forgotten my pen I either make use of what I can to make my mark (mud is good), or leave something in the cache to prove I was there.

9.3k · January 17, 2011

I always carry a backup quill and ink bottle in case my ball-point doesn't work. Sometimes, in a crunch, I carry my portable printer, print my signature with my USB sig pad, print the text, cut it to size, grab my bottle of glue or tape and add my sig to the the log...but I'm a stickler for the rules, I guess.

That's so 90's. Man, you gotta upgrade!

Whip out your iPad, hack into NORAD, manipulate the track of the nearest spy satellite and get a pic of you holding the cache!

14k · January 17, 2011

I always try to have at least a couple of pens with me. My son has a a bunch of gel pens in a wide assortment of colors and like using one that is sea green (it relates to my handle). Unless, of course, I'm signing a log on a puzzle cache then I use invisible ink. I did forget a pen/pencil once for a cache that was fortunately near a small pond so I was able to sign NYPC in mud. I noted that I had signed in mud in my online log and the next person to find the cache wrote that they traced over my initials with a pencil. Before they faded. In that case, I could have gone back and signed the log in pen or pencil because it was only about 4 miles away but for a lot of caches I've found it would be impractical to go back and find the cache again if I had forgotten a pen. About 20% of my finds are over 100 miles away and many in places that I will likely never visit again.

January 17, 2011

I keep 2 pens with me, and I have some signature swag pencils I had made. So, there is never a reason to not sign the log other than a DNF. If the log is soaking wet, I typically have a couple of spare ones with me just in case some on the spot repair needs to be done.

January 17, 2011

I have a custom made self inking stamp attached to my Garmin and a variety of writing instruments in my bag. Pens, pencils, even fine line sharpies, I never leave home without them. I guess it's because I'm kind of hung up on signing the log. I will not log it as a find when I get home if I did not sign my name.

3.3k · January 17, 2011

FFunny this topic should come up. I found a cache just the other day that was frozen shut. I didn't want to break the lock-n-lock container (it was about -25C), so didn't sign the log. But I did manage to slip a signature wooden nickle into the container. Good enough.

Edit to add: That was my first find on a buisness trip. The rest of the finds had pens that were frozen solid. Good thing I had a pencil in my pack.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Andronicus

I found a cache, but my pen isn't working ... :)

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