Publication times

[+FireRef]

I am trying to hide a cache a week for the year, since I haven't hidden many since 3-4 years ago when I put out several series's. I remember having some difficulties with reviewers in my area, making the hides in some cases more hassles than they were worth to put out, be told you can't put it there, and then have to go back and move it.

 

This specific thread is in response to a special request. I asked that a cache I placed for this cache-a-week series would be published today at 7:30 am. The reason for this is simple. I have a number of students at my school who geocache, and I wanted some of them to have the opportunity for a FTF. Not that it means anything except to some people, but it was a simple request. The cache was placed, moved, replaced, etc until the reviewer was happy with it. Originally, it was too close to the school. Then she was concerned it was on a fire hydrant (which I don't understand why people have a problem with this, being a volunteer fireman, but was told some places you can't do it so the reviewers don't let anyone do it without explicit permission). Finally, a week before I asked to have it published, I was told she was fine with the location, it was ready to be published today, and she would do her best to honor the time request.

 

That time came and went. Not published.

 

It is now an hour and a half later, the kids are in school and will be for the next 6-7 hours, and maybe it will be published while they are in, maybe not. I don't know.

 

I made the request for the time and date several times in the reviewer notes.

 

I know that for events, a number of caches can be released at a specific time. I know they generally honor requests such as this. I am very disappointed in the lack of attention to this detail by this reviewer, as all the other details in the publication seemed to be of paramount importance - the one I considered the most important was blown off. I understand they're volunteers. However, as a volunteer fireman, I understand very clearly the importance of being available when needed. If I decide to respond to a call an hour after it went out, in most cases, it just wouldn't work. Yes, that and this are two different things, but both are time dependent, depending on the circumstances.

 

Can't these be set to auto-publish at a specific time?

 

How would an event work if all the caches for it were just not published when they were supposed to be, if there were caches that were supposed to get published during the event, or at a specific point in the event?

 

I am very unhappy with the way this was handled. What can be done?

Edited January 14, 2011 by FireRef

[+Touchstone]

I believe the Volunteers do their best to honor such requests, but I think it is foolish to expect it.

 

I am very unhappy with the way this was handled. What can be done?

 

Changing your expectation might be the easiest/best solution.

 

The other obvious solution, is to do what many Host(esses)do at Events, and print out the Listings and distribute the information to your target population. After they have had a chance to find the cache, submit the Listing for Publication.

 

Best of luck with the series. I hope it works out better in the future. I think it's pretty nice of you to try and include the kids

[+rawkhopper]

Finally, a week before I asked to have it published, I was told she was fine with the location, it was ready to be published today, and she would do her best to honor the time request.

What if the reviewer was in the hospital right now? What if someone they cared about had died? What if they simply got busy with real life? The reviewer is a volunteer. Please don't get upset by something so trivial.

[+rawkhopper]

How would an event work if all the caches for it were just not published when they were supposed to be, if there were caches that were supposed to get published during the event, or at a specific point in the event?

 

The event I went to the caches were published, purposefully, after the event was rolling to give the people at the event a chance at first to find.

 

There is nothing stopping you from printing out the cache page and handing it to people before it is actually published. You might want to say that on the cache page though so that you don't have FTF hounds upset with you when they go for FTF and find it already signed the day before.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I understand they're volunteers. However, as a volunteer fireman, I understand very clearly the importance of being available when needed. If I decide to respond to a call an hour after it went out, in most cases, it just wouldn't work. Yes, that and this are two different things, but both are time dependent, depending on the circumstances.

 

Apples and oranges. It's silly to make a comparison. In one case, people could die, and in the other some kids don't get FTF.

 

How would an event work if all the caches for it were just not published when they were supposed to be, if there were caches that were supposed to get published during the event, or at a specific point in the event?

 

I have held many events, at which I would release new caches. Since I know I cannot rely 100% on the local review to publishes caches at a set time, I bring printouts of the caches, and release them on-site. They were usually "live" by the time people got home to log them.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

You might want to say that on the cache page though so that you don't have FTF hounds upset with you when they go for FTF and find it already signed the day before.

 

When I do this, whoever signs the log first is FTF, even if it is pre-"official" publication. It went live at the event. If the hounds aren't at the event, too bad.

[+rawkhopper]

You might want to say that on the cache page though so that you don't have FTF hounds upset with you when they go for FTF and find it already signed the day before.

 

When I do this, whoever signs the log first is FTF, even if it is pre-"official" publication. It went live at the event. If the hounds aren't at the event, too bad.

Sorry I meant if it was not at an event. But I agree first to sign is first to find even if it was not published yet.

[+Jenischmeni]

To the OP: Wow, that's kind of harsh. You're angry because a reviewer asked that your cache adhere to the guidelines? (Which is how the rest of us have to do it.) Then, you're angry because a reviewer couldn't be present at their computer at exactly 7:30 a.m. to publish your caches. Comparing a geocaching.com VOLUNTEER to being a volunteer fire fighter is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

How many fires do you get in a typical week? In my state about 150 caches publish a week. That's a lot of "fires" for one volunteer.

 

And....I will add this because I think it's worth mentioning: Are you sure that the reviewer didn't try to publish the cache this morning? I submitted a Pocket Query very late last night (early this morning, actually) and it still has not run. Maybe your cache is stuck in the system and it's not even the reviewer's fault at all?

[+addisonbr]

I'm not sure that I would compare a volunteer firefighter's duties to those of a volunteer geocache reviewer.

 

It was nice of your reviewer to try to work with you on the publication time. I can understand being disappointed that it didn't go off without a hitch. If it had been me, I would probably have written a private not to the reviewer asking if there was anything that had prevented it from happening at 7:30, and if any of it had been in my control. Then I'd have worked from there.

 

It might have been more productive than calling things out in the forums will likely be.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Sometimes things come up that get in the way of what you had planned to do. Remember the reviewers are volunteers, not paid employees. This reviewer told you she'd do her best, but that isn't a guarantee or a contract.

 

It would be great if the system let the reviewers schedule caches to be published at a specific time after they hit the publish button. Caches placed for an event could all be published at the start time, or an hour before/after. Reviewers could mask what time they're online by having caches scheduled to be published once an hour all day long instead of having a bunch of caches come out at 10:30pm. This is something we were talking about 2-3 years ago. Too bad it never happened.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Team GPSaxophone

[Mr.Yuck]

So now we've had a thread about the first one, the micro on the speed limit sign that was too close to RR tracks, and this one. That's 2 out of 3. I hope we're not going to have 34 out of 52.

[+addisonbr]

It would be great if the system let the reviewers schedule caches to be published at a specific time after they hit the publish button. Caches placed for an event could all be published at the start time, or an hour before/after. Reviewers could mask what time they're online by having caches scheduled to be published once an hour all day long instead of having a bunch of caches come out at 10:30pm. This is something we were talking about 3 years ago. Too bad it never happened.

There's blog software that will do that. You can queue up posts for scheduled release times in the future. That could be pretty handy for reviewers who might have free time in the evenings but don't necessarily want to kick off FTF frenzies in parks that are closed after dusk.

[+Ike 13]

There is no auto publish for caches, they have to be manually published. I'm sure the reviewers would love that option. But a reviewer has no control over the tech team.

 

You ask for my opinion so here it is: Sounds like you have unrealistic expectations. Sure if they were paid and this was a full or even part time job I could see your point. A volunteer reviewer and a volunteer fireman are apples and cats.

 

You also need to remember that you are just one Geocacher. The reviewer probably has to deal with 100's of other people. They volunteer their time and do the best they can to honor such requests. Sometimes life gets in the way.

 

As others have said if you're planning an event and caches to be published for that event it is best to have a print off of coords to hand out just in case.

 

Edit to add: As a teacher and one who occasianlly goes for FTF I accept that I will not be eligable for any FTF published during a work day. It's nice you tried to give your student's a chance, but I'm sure if they chase FTFs they too have a similar expectation,

Edited January 14, 2011 by IkeHurley13

[+FireRef]

Thanks for the info. I was concerned people would whine if someone got the FTF before the publication. If it is considered acceptable to hand out coords before official publication, then we're find. I do feel I can compare any volunteer opportunities - it makes sense that if you volunteer for something, you will be available to do something a reasonable amount of the time, or have someone else handle it. We have 3 reviewers I am aware of around here.

 

Mr Yuck, if you don't like me asking questions, ignore me.

[+briansnat]

The reviewer said she would do her best. Maybe she was called into work earlier than usual. Maybe her kid was sick. Maybe her furnace wasn't working and her pipes broke. Maybe she just plain forgot. Maybe satisfying your demand was not the most important thing going on in her life at the moment. Hard to imagine I'm sure.

[+FireRef]

There is no auto publish for caches, they have to be manually published. I'm sure the reviewers would love that option. But a reviewer has no control over the tech team.

 

You ask for my opinion so here it is: Sounds like you have unrealistic expectations. Sure if they were paid and this was a full or even part time job I could see your point. A volunteer reviewer and a volunteer fireman are apples and cats.

 

You also need to remember that you are just one Geocacher. The reviewer probably has to deal with 100's of other people. They volunteer their time and do the best they can to honor such requests. Sometimes life gets in the way.

 

As others have said if you're planning an event and caches to be published for that event it is best to have a print off of coords to hand out just in case.

 

Edit to add: As a teacher and one who occasianlly goes for FTF I accept that I will not be eligable for any FTF published during a work day. It's nice you tried to give your student's a chance, but I'm sure if they chase FTFs they too have a similar expectation,

 

I know there is a difference between being a volunteer fireman and this. However, when you volunteer for something, you make a committment. This is why there is such a problem with volunteers being said to be "just a volunteer". I've been a fireman for 20+ years, and I certainly consider myself a professional in every aspect, except being paid. If I did my work as a firefighter or as an EMT at a lower quality than those who are paid, that would be a serious problem.

 

Again, I know some don't like the comparison. But when you volunteer for something, do the job and do it well. Life happens - that's why we either need more reviewers, or just get rid of them since some competing websites seem to thing they're not necessary (and I agree).

[+mtn-man]

OK, and now for the facts.

 

The cache was entered into the system on January 3. That's eleven days. On January 7 the reviewer posted that they had indeed been sick with a high fever and had taken time off from review to get better. This was posted a week before requested publication. Having just had a serious health issue myself, I understand this totally. The only thing I could think of was pain, pain, ouch, ouch.

 

There were exchanges on January 7th regarding the placement. It required that the cache be moved from the original location. On January 9 the cache owner responded that the cache was in place and ready to be published. This isn't two weeks before, but rather just five days.

 

The following day on January 10, the reviewer posted the following note:

Hello,

 

This cache submission is ready for publication on Friday, Jan. 14.

 

I will try to honor your specific time request as best I can.

 

I am sure your cache will be published sometime soon. I am glad that people in my area are nice and understand that we as reviewers have personal lives, and sometimes we can be stressed in a big way.

 

Comparing a volunteer cache reviewer to a volunteer fireman is absurd. Your comparison is more insulting to volunteer fireman than it is to volunteer cache reviewers. It is pitiful that you cheapen the work of these people. They volunteer their services to save people's lives and to save their property. I think you need to apologize to volunteer firemen frankly.

[+addisonbr]

I don't think all commitments are created equally.

 

I'm guessing that if a firefighter and a cache reviewer were the same person, there would be little question which is the right course of action given a temporary conflict between the two commitments.

[+hukilaulau]

I don't think all commitments are created equally.

 

I'm guessing that if a firefighter and a cache reviewer were the same person, there would be little question which is the right course of action given a temporary conflict between the two commitments.

 

Exactly. To put it a different way, it depends on what you actually agree to do. Volunteer fire fighters agree to be available during very specific times. I'm assuming volunteer geocache reviewers agree to, among other things, process cache submissions as expediently as they can, without any specific times involved in the agreement.

[Keystone]

I see that GC2M01P has since been published by my colleague skeetsurfer. I did not know she had been ill. I'm now doubly grateful to skeetsurfer for helping to cover my workload above and beyond her own, while I dealt with a family tragedy earlier this month, and I wanted to thank her publicly.

 

To the OP, please do enjoy the logs on what you called "just another micro to pass the time." I hope you gain happiness from your cache placements.

[Mr.Yuck]

Thanks for the info. I was concerned people would whine if someone got the FTF before the publication. If it is considered acceptable to hand out coords before official publication, then we're find. I do feel I can compare any volunteer opportunities - it makes sense that if you volunteer for something, you will be available to do something a reasonable amount of the time, or have someone else handle it. We have 3 reviewers I am aware of around here.

 

Mr Yuck, if you don't like me asking questions, ignore me.

 

And miss a speed limit sign and/or fire hydrant micro a week? Not a chance.

[+Ike 13]

There is no auto publish for caches, they have to be manually published. I'm sure the reviewers would love that option. But a reviewer has no control over the tech team.

 

You ask for my opinion so here it is: Sounds like you have unrealistic expectations. Sure if they were paid and this was a full or even part time job I could see your point. A volunteer reviewer and a volunteer fireman are apples and cats.

 

You also need to remember that you are just one Geocacher. The reviewer probably has to deal with 100's of other people. They volunteer their time and do the best they can to honor such requests. Sometimes life gets in the way.

 

As others have said if you're planning an event and caches to be published for that event it is best to have a print off of coords to hand out just in case.

 

Edit to add: As a teacher and one who occasianlly goes for FTF I accept that I will not be eligable for any FTF published during a work day. It's nice you tried to give your student's a chance, but I'm sure if they chase FTFs they too have a similar expectation,

 

I know there is a difference between being a volunteer fireman and this. However, when you volunteer for something, you make a committment. This is why there is such a problem with volunteers being said to be "just a volunteer". I've been a fireman for 20+ years, and I certainly consider myself a professional in every aspect, except being paid. If I did my work as a firefighter or as an EMT at a lower quality than those who are paid, that would be a serious problem.

 

Again, I know some don't like the comparison. But when you volunteer for something, do the job and do it well. Life happens - that's why we either need more reviewers, or just get rid of them since some competing websites seem to thing they're not necessary (and I agree).

 

Yes she agreed to volunteer her time. Reviewers are expected to review caches within 72 hours. She did that. She also published your cache on the day you asked. So she meet the requirments she agreed upon when becoming a reviewer.

 

I also disagree that reviewers aren't necessary, but that's a complete different thread.

 

As far as handing out the coordinates before publication: there is no rule against it. It happens a good bit (a cacher wants to honor a friend hitting a certain milestone so they get prepublication FTF rights). Some FTF Hounds will call fowl, but there's nothing stopping them from still claiming an FTF (post publication). As all FTF hunters know there are no rules and FTF is a mostly a personal distinction.

[+FireRef]

OK, and now for the facts.

 

The cache was entered into the system on January 3. That's eleven days. On January 7 the reviewer posted that they had indeed been sick with a high fever and had taken time off from review to get better. This was posted a week before requested publication. Having just had a serious health issue myself, I understand this totally. The only thing I could think of was pain, pain, ouch, ouch.

 

There were exchanges on January 7th regarding the placement. It required that the cache be moved from the original location. On January 9 the cache owner responded that the cache was in place and ready to be published. This isn't two weeks before, but rather just five days.

 

The following day on January 10, the reviewer posted the following note:

Hello,

 

This cache submission is ready for publication on Friday, Jan. 14.

 

I will try to honor your specific time request as best I can.

 

I am sure your cache will be published sometime soon. I am glad that people in my area are nice and understand that we as reviewers have personal lives, and sometimes we can be stressed in a big way.

 

Comparing a volunteer cache reviewer to a volunteer fireman is absurd. Your comparison is more insulting to volunteer fireman than it is to volunteer cache reviewers. It is pitiful that you cheapen the work of these people. They volunteer their services to save people's lives and to save their property. I think you need to apologize to volunteer firemen frankly.

 

Unless I missed something, I believe the story I told was correct. I may have been off a day.

 

I understand she was sick. If she was unavailable, there are, as I stated, 2 other reviewers in our area that could have handled it. One chimed in on this discussion.

 

As for insulting to volunteer fireman, I am one. My comparison is based on my experience.

[sdarken]

I am very unhappy with the way this was handled. What can be done?

 

I asked Santa for a pony and I didn't get one. What can be done about that?

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I understand she was sick. If she was unavailable, there are, as I stated, 2 other reviewers in our area that could have handled it. One chimed in on this discussion.

When one reviewer places a cache on hold, the other reviewers would assume it's being handled and not do anything to it unless asked. If the first reviewer got sick, they wouldn't necessarily be able to contact the other reviewers to take care of it.

[+GeoGeeBee]

Entitlement.

 

There, I said it.

[+MissJenn]

The original questions have been answered more than adequately: thanks to those who provided facts and helpful context .

People are starting to get snippy so let's walk away.