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Novel series idea


Smith0

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I need to get a sense from the geocaching community. You find a new series posted in your area. It involves 5 caches that contain clues to obtain a semi-final cache. These five caches include 2 puzzle caches and 3 traditional caches. There is also a bonus puzzle cache with no clues. The series is within a 5 kilometer radius and includes a short drive and a 30-40 minute walk on level trails. Once you find the semi-final there are specific details on how to find the grand finale. The grand finale is hidden in a store that is open 7 days a week with fairly generous business hours. The grand finale is a reverse geocache modeled after mikal harts reverse geocache. It has a random location generator so it will open in a different location (of six locations) each time it is used. The final takes about one hour. I need opinions as the geocaching officials are considering it right now as it pushes the limits. Please post questions if anything is not clear.

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The grand finale is hidden in a store that is open 7 days a week with fairly generous business hours.

 

In reviewer mode, I respond. This is a complete stopper.

 

I do think that you might be able to get permission from Groundspeak for this, it's incumbent upon you to pursue that permission FIRST.

Relevant guideline linked and quoted below:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#commercial

 

"Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak.... The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business..."

 

As a cacher, I'd say the set-up is excessively complex, which makes it fragile, and mostly the succeeding caches in the chain, will be largely unfound.

 

As a reviewer, the specifics matter, and aren't clear enough for comment.

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There was someone here a while back that wanted to place a multi-state multi cache, and when people told her it wouldn't get very many finders she kindof flipped out, got all upset. The relevence here is, your cache is a little too complex. I wouldn;t know where to start. I would get defeated, and want to just go out and look for a regular instead. I am not saying if it gets published people wouldn't come, but I am saying, not that many people would come. Especially once they find out they have to GO INSIDE a store to find one of the caches.

 

Wait, I just read it will be a series, forget what I said.

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I do think that you might be able to get permission from Groundspeak for this, it's incumbent upon you to pursue that permission FIRST.

 

That would be my take on it as well. I don't think there's any harm in submitting a Listing to the Local Reviewer first for comments, but I suspect you'll end up at Appeals with this concept.

 

All the same, nice to see some very creative ideas out there :)

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Hello

 

To clarify

 

This is a series of five cache each of which contains a piece of the coordinates for the location of the semi-final.

 

Two of these are medium difficulty puzzle caches that can be solved at home prior to setting out for the hunt. There is a sixth "bonus" puzzle cache which need not be found for pieces of the coordinates. All three are within a short distance of each other. All of the "clues" are written on the cache lid and logbook.

 

Three of these are traditional caches hidden along a flat gravel trail between cranberry fields. The walk is about 700 meters. The semi-final is hidden nearby. This is a similar series http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=81d423e7-b4c5-47b5-98eb-13dcedd18766

 

It would take about one hour to complete all five including driving (this is a generous estimate).

 

Once all five caches are found and the "clues" collected the coordinates for the semi-final can be quickly assembled and you find the semi-final nearby. In this cache is specific instruction on how to find the final. It provides the location of the store in which the cache is locate.

 

I realize the issue with the perception of a commercial cache. The bookstore in which it is kept is not affiliated with me in any way. The purpose of hiding the cache indoors is for longevity. It is not weatherproof and as such cannot be left in the rain. The West Coast of British Columbia is very wet. The staff at the store a gracious enough to provide some shelf space for it to rest. There is no commercial intent. This store was chosen because it is a quaint little store which adds to the flavor of the cache series theme. The staff is not expected to be involved with the cache. I will attend regularly to ensure it is maintained. The final cache would require at most, one hour to complete.

 

There are a number of published series caches in the area that have been well received by the local community. I believe this one would be equally well received.

 

There are a number of electronic geocaches published worldwide. This is almost identical to what I wish to put out: http://arduiniana.org/projects/the-reverse-geo-cache-puzzle/

 

Would cachers be interested in such a series?

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I think it sounds like fun; but then, I like puzzles.

 

Making any cache a Mystery type reduces the number of finders. With each additional level of complexity, the number of finders drops further. I own one very difficult puzzle, it's only been found twice.

 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it; you should just be aware that there are a lot of people who will choose not to look for it. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

I would suggest perhaps using a library instead of a bookstore in order to avoid possibly having it rejected for being "commercial." I know of several caches where the final is inside a library and it seems to work well.

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I say go for it, work with your reviewer to work out any kinks, but have at it.

 

I like it when people find our caches, I wish more would go for our puzzle caches than for our easy park and grabs, but find count definitely does NOT equal cache quality. My favorite caches are the ones that have taken the most work.

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I believe this is not publishable by a reviewer. It requires entering a commercial location, This would require permission from Groundspeak. I think you need to contact them, It sounds like it might be fun but it does appear to me to require an exemption from the guidelines prohibiting commercial caches. Those come from the company, not the volunteers.

Team Taran

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This is a series of five cache each of which contains a piece of the coordinates for the location of the semi-final.
So caches A, B, C, D, and E contain information that will be used to find cache F. Right? So far, so good.

 

Two of these are medium difficulty puzzle caches that can be solved at home prior to setting out for the hunt. There is a sixth "bonus" puzzle cache which need not be found for pieces of the coordinates. All three are within a short distance of each other. All of the "clues" are written on the cache lid and logbook.

 

Three of these are traditional caches hidden along a flat gravel trail between cranberry fields. The walk is about 700 meters. The semi-final is hidden nearby.

So caches A and B are puzzle caches, with puzzles that yield the coordinates of the containers. And caches C, D, and E are traditional caches. Cache G (the "bonus" cache) is an additional puzzle cache that you consider part of the series, but which isn't needed to get the coordinates of cache F. Right? So far, so good.

 

Once all five caches are found and the "clues" collected the coordinates for the semi-final can be quickly assembled and you find the semi-final nearby. In this cache is specific instruction on how to find the final.
So inside cache F is the location and instructions for cache H, the final cache. Right? So far, so good.

 

And for what it's worth, I think the overall idea sounds like a lot of fun. I wish I lived closer to you so I could do the series when you get it published.

 

It provides the location of the store in which the cache is locate.
As palmetto explained, placing any cache in a store violates the guidelines. To get an exception approved, you'll need to contact Groundspeak. Not your local reviewer, not those of us who frequent the forums, but Groundspeak.

 

I realize the issue with the perception of a commercial cache. The bookstore in which it is kept is not affiliated with me in any way.
Affiliation with the business isn't the issue. The issue is that cache seekers would need to go inside a business to retrieve the cache.

 

The purpose of hiding the cache indoors is for longevity. It is not weatherproof and as such cannot be left in the rain.
I have found caches that were located indoors, and I am aware of others that are located indoors. However, they are located in public spaces, not in private commercial spaces. GeoGeeBee's suggestion of using a library or similar public space is a good one.

 

Alternatively, you can contact Groundspeak and arrange an exception to the guidelines.

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Everyone seems to be stuck on the commercial aspect. I'm wondering what happens if he allowed to use the business. The OP states that the final cache is a "Reverse" cache. Does that mean that the container has to brought to a different physical location before it will open? Is this allowed?

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The result..............

 

You need to solve two puzzles to get the first two caches of five. Once you have taken the clue from each of the five you get to the semi-final. The semi-final contains the information necessary to get to the final cache which I have hidden in the local leisure center to get around the commercial thing. I tried the library but the manager was a bit uppity and wanted to make an appointment next year(ha ha). The final is an electronic GPS based cache that requires you to go to a certain location for it to open. Groundspeak has approved this as a test case and will determine if it is ok. Check The Reverse Series by Wozzlewig.

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I would do the cache except for one thing - the final being in a commercial business. That is a cache killer for me. Even if I don't have to interact with the staff or pay anything. I don't like caches inside of commercial locations.

 

Put your final in a waterproof container and hide it somewhere outside the business and I'd support your idea.

Reluctance to take the final outside of a business establishment may be perceived as a commercial agenda. In other words, if the cache can't work without the business, then it's a not a viable cache on it's own.

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The result..............

 

You need to solve two puzzles to get the first two caches of five. Once you have taken the clue from each of the five you get to the semi-final. The semi-final contains the information necessary to get to the final cache which I have hidden in the local leisure center to get around the commercial thing. I tried the library but the manager was a bit uppity and wanted to make an appointment next year(ha ha). The final is an electronic GPS based cache that requires you to go to a certain location for it to open. Groundspeak has approved this as a test case and will determine if it is ok. Check The Reverse Series by Wozzlewig.

 

According to your profile you don't have any hides. Are you sure that it's been published? What's the GC code.

 

I have a couple of reservations about the cache.

 

I've done a couple of different caches which require you to find 6 caches to obtain clues to find a final. In both cases, one or more of the caches with the required clues went missing before I could find all the prerequisites. When creating a series like this you really want to stay on top of maintaining all of the prerequisite caches because if one goes missing the final can't be found.

 

I'm not clear about the electronic GPS based cache and how far one has to go in order to open it. In an earlier post you indicated that it several possible locations. It seems to me that someone might find all the prerequisites, solve for the location of the semi final and find that, and then go to the leisure center only to discover that someone else got there five minute earlier and took the electronic GPS cache to the place where it could be opened. Wouldn't they have to wait until the previous geocacher returned the cache?

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I'm not clear about the electronic GPS based cache and how far one has to go in order to open it. In an earlier post you indicated that it several possible locations. It seems to me that someone might find all the prerequisites, solve for the location of the semi final and find that, and then go to the leisure center only to discover that someone else got there five minute earlier and took the electronic GPS cache to the place where it could be opened. Wouldn't they have to wait until the previous geocacher returned the cache?

 

As someone that has hiked 2 miles uphill to grab a cache, only to find that the newbe that found it the day before though he was supposed to take it home with him, this can be VERY frustrating.

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Hi

 

It is published and receiving rave reviews.

 

My original point to this post was to see if there was some interest in so called "reverse" caches.

 

Thank you to those who provided insight into their thoughts about the concept.

 

Thank you to those for the schooling in the guidelines.

 

 

Happy Caching.

Edited by Wozzlewig
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