Golden Ammo Can

January 13, 2011

Following lively forum discussion a couple of months ago, the Mega Wales committee has endeavoured to chart a course through the conflicting views expressed. The conclusion is that:

(a) While the Golden Ammo Can is held by this committee, it will not make appearances at ordinary events during the year.

( With due regard to the security of the Can and its contents, every effort will be made to feature the appearance of the Can at Mega Wales. It will be readily available for attendees at the event to see both it and its contents and log any or all of the trackable items, if they wish.

It is emphasized that the policy adopted by the Mega Wales committee relates only to its period of tenure of the Can and its successors are free to make their own decisions on this matter.

For those that don't know, the UK Mega Event Ammo Can (to give it its correct name) was born at the Weston Mega in 2009 with the goal of “To travel from one UK Mega Event to the next collecting a mega coin from each one ...” The Can is officially a Travel Bug, carrying the usual dog tag for tracking, and, as the name implies, is an ammo box. As well as passing through Mega Scotland in 2010, it has retrospectively gained coins from Harrogate (2008). So it already has seven trackable geocoins inside it and this will be supplemented by the time it appears in Swansea. It also carries other memorabilia from the Mega events.

January 13, 2011

Sounds as though was thought about, and it will make it a special find for those that seek it.

January 13, 2011

Very glad this issue has finally been decided and the committee has taken on board the constructive advice of both the creators of the ammo can and fellow cachers

Tony

January 13, 2011

Very glad this issue has finally been decided and the committee has taken on board the constructive advice of both the creators of the ammo can and fellow cachers

Tony

Some fellow cachers did support wider dissemination of this trackable and it's contents but we have gone with the majority view although consensus was not reached.

January 13, 2011

Well guess we should agree to disagree on that one Simon, but I'm glad common sense prevailed and the original Golden Ammo Box creators had thier wishes followed

Tony

January 13, 2011

Well done.. It's sorted out. :lol:

To be honest I think this is the best result.

3.3k · January 13, 2011

Well guess we should agree to disagree on that one Simon, but I'm glad common sense prevailed and the original Golden Ammo Box creators had thier wishes followed

Tony

Thanks for that :rolleyes:

January 14, 2011

Well guess we should agree to disagree on that one Simon, but I'm glad common sense prevailed and the original Golden Ammo Box creators had thier wishes followed

Tony

Thanks for that

As another member of the committee that came up with the original idea ..... I am glad to hear this news. Thanks.

I just hope that members of the UK Mega Event committees in the future continue to respect our orginal intentions for the 'Golden Ammo Can'.

August 17, 2011

Well guess we should agree to disagree on that one Simon, but I'm glad common sense prevailed and the original Golden Ammo Box creators had thier wishes followed

Tony

Thanks for that

As another member of the committee that came up with the original idea ..... I am glad to hear this news. Thanks.

I just hope that members of the UK Mega Event committees in the future continue to respect our orginal intentions for the 'Golden Ammo Can'.

It looks as if that is not the case!

"Its been publicly stated on Facebook that the Golden Ammo Can (which has now even been given its own Facebook page) is going to

be touring a lot of events over the next year to promote the Mega North West event. I wish them every success of course - but I await

with interest to see if they get the same response that MEGA Wales got when we suggested we were going to do exactly the same last year"

3.3k · August 17, 2011

"Its been publicly stated on Facebook that the Golden Ammo Can (which has now even been given its own Facebook page) is going to

be touring a lot of events over the next year to promote the Mega North West event. I wish them every success of course - but I await

with interest to see if they get the same response that MEGA Wales got when we suggested we were going to do exactly the same last year"

Oh well... someone was bound to go against the original intentions of those who created it at some point.

August 17, 2011

Well Simon I guess that my reply is not really what you expect but after the disgraceful intentions of the Mega Wales Committee to go against not only the Golden Ammo Cans Mission but against the very people who created it, this is hardly surprising revelation what does annoy me is the way that cachers’ wishes are being ignored yet again and these people have not been consulted regarding any change of mission.

My question is to anyone who sets something off with a mission, would they like their travel bug’s mission changed without notification or consultation?

It really comes down to respect and it seems that as soon as people acquire the Official Mega Status these days they lose respect for others.. A sad thing but I have decided not to follow or entertain the Official Mega and concentrate on things and events with more integrity and honesty

Regards

Tony

1.4k · August 17, 2011

have to agree with Mollyjaks on this one, if it is taken to all and sundrie caching events it will simply spoil the ethos of having a Mega Golden Ammo Can TB.

3k · August 17, 2011

... this is hardly surprising revelation what does annoy me is the way that cachers’ wishes are being ignored yet again and these people have not been consulted regarding any change of mission.

have to agree with Mollyjaks on this one, if it is taken to all and sundrie caching events it will simply spoil the ethos of having a Mega Golden Ammo Can TB.

I agree.

6.1k · August 17, 2011

You could always obscure the TB number and take it along for pulicity purposes, then once the interest is piqued they'd have to come to the Mega to log it.

8.6k · August 17, 2011

I've just had a look at The UK Mega Event Ammo Can.

Its mission states, "To travel from one UK Mega Event to the next collecting a mega coin from each one."

I have TBs with missions to get to specific caches - That doesn't mean I expect them to go straight there and not call at other caches on the way.

If it was the intention of the original Mega Committee that the GAC was to appear only at UK Mega events then it's a pity that these very specific restrictions were not spelled out clearly on the TB page. I wonder if there are minutes of previous mega meetings anywhere in somebody's archives which could be quoted? If it's been written in stone somewhere then perhaps the current Mega Committe would consider editing the TB's mission so that this whole debate does not arise every year.

MrsB

August 17, 2011

Ok, there is a lot of assumption going on here.

We took the can to our launch event last week, and there was practically no interest in it from our attendees.

After the event someone, who's assisted all Annual Mega Events so far, came to us with the suggestion to get the can out there as a promotion tool for our, and future events. We were happily going to leave it in a cupboard after the launch event until next year.

As with any committee, there is a bit of internal discussion going on between us, and a few members have posted some ideas under the Golden Ammo Can account on facebook, but these shouldn't be viewed as "official announcements".

When we have come to a concencous (and obscuring the tracking number is an idea that has already been part of our discussions), we will let you know through our chosen communication channels; but probably not in this thread, as it has turned rather negative.

At the end of the day, it is just a regular tb, with no special icon. The contents are special, and again, that is forming part of our discussions.

1.7k · August 17, 2011

As the person referred to, I made the suggestion because someone who had actually attended the Welsh Mega Event, so had a opportunity to see the G.A.C. live in person. Stated that he/she thought it was a Raffle Prize. :yikes:

Also as stated no one at the NW Mega Event Launch event, even showed any interest in it :yikes: , not all of them actually attended the Welsh Mega, some have never attended any Mega event before.

The G.A.C meant absolutely nothing to them, when you consider is carries the fruits of all the previous Annual UK Mega Event Committees, in that it contains the Geocoins produced specifically for each event. Then that is a total shame, because it does not express the Hard work put in by each Committee, because no one is even aware of it :yikes:

By using it to promote the NW Mega Event, by taking it to "local" events. The NW Mega Event Committee, are not only promoting the hard work put in by the Harrogate/Weston/Perth/Swansea Mega Event Committees. They are also promoting the Mega Events proposed for 2013 & 2014. It's interesting to note that the NW Committee, shared the proceeds from several Raffles that they ran with Event owners permission held in North Wales with the Swansea Committee, but also a couple events that took place at the Cheshire Cat in Cheshire. One of the NW Committee has permission off the Event owner in the Midlands to hold a fund raising Raffle. The proceeds being split with the Committee currently forming with a aim of Organising the Annual UK Mega Event in the Midlands in 2013.

Will someone please explain to me, using a clear unemotional explanation, as to why it is wrong to use the G.A.C. to actively promote the Hard Work put in by Previous Mega Committees, The Current Committee Holding the Annual UK Mega Event Account, and future UK Mega Events. And why it should sit in a dark closet for 364 days of the year, on a perpeptual basis?

Dave-Mancunian Pyrocacher

Please Note! Posts made under this account, are my own personal oppinion only. They have no conection to, nor do they represent any view or oppinion held by Groundspeak, or any Site Volunteer for Groundspeak.

August 17, 2011

Dave thank you for your post and you make some very good points. I'm not going to get involved in this too much but my points are this.

Why is it assumed that we can do what we like with this TB without the courtesy of asking the people who set it up and paid for it? This is a matter of respect and simple courtesy.

My very first post if you read it again on this subject was simply informing people of the intentions of the Welsh Committee and I felt very strongly that cachers should be given a voice in such matters and I did not express my own opinion at that time.

The ammo can is a unique feature and needs publicity, but this can be done without the risk of taking it around different events. The Facebook page is an excellent start in doing this the NW web page is another. Considering the relatively small numbers at normal events compared to a Mega is there such a benefit in showing it at small events?

All of this can be argued for the next year or so but my original point stands people who have invested time and money into this TB should have the respect and decency to be consulted as they finally were last year after my post, and if you read the post through again the large majority had their voice heard..

Regards

Tony

1.7k · August 17, 2011

All of this can be argued for the next year or so but my original point stands people who have invested time and money into this TB should have the respect and decency to be consulted as they finally were last year after my post, and if you read the post through again the large majority had their voice heard..
Regards

Tony

Tony that statment only covers those who have expressed a oppinion on this forum. This forum represents a very tiny number of the UK Community, at a guess less than 1%, of that 1%, what is the actual percentage who have even commented about the plans for the G.A.C. on this forum.

On it's Facebook page, 56 people have stated they like it.

If there is a issue about the fact that a group have paid for the ammo can and TB tag, then I'm quite happy to personally refund them. And leave all decisions made about the G.A.C. to the account that currently holds the Annual UK Mega Account, at that point.

If the Group who created it, wished to control how the G.A.C. travels from Annual Mega Event to Annual Mega Event. Then they should have created a specific account for it and not listed it under the Annual UK Mega Event Account, knowing that it's handed from committee to committee once a year. In fact it was created with the following on the page

Current GOAL

To travel from one UK Mega Event to the next collecting a mega coin from each one.....

The Harrogate Committee created the Annual UK Mega Event Account, with the aim of it being handed from Committee to Committee. With no strings attached. Why is the G.A.C any different?

To remove the arguments, so that how the G.A.C. is moved from one Mega to the next is decided soley by the Cuurent Holder of the Annual UK Mega Account, if the Weston Committee, will please advice me the total cost of the Ammo can, TB Tag and Paint. I will refund them. That way there will be no issues involved anymore.

Another option would be to return the Ammo Can and the Weston Geocoins to that Committee, and the Goecoins of the other committees to their respective committees. And leave the Weston Committee to soley decide what to do with it. Because currently the G.A.C is just a normal TB that no one at all apart from 5 or 10 UK cachers having any interest in it. At least the NW Committee are trying to rectify that, and get a larger % of the community interested in it.

So I personally challange all of the Weston Committee, to publicly state, whether they wish the G.A.C is brought to the Attention of a higher % of the community. Or do they just wish 5-10 UK cachers to have a interest in it! Sorry please do not fall back on the it should only go to the Annual UK Mega Event, please express a specific opinion. Higher % of the Community, or just 5-10 UK cachers.

Dave-Mancunian Pyrocacher

Please Note! Posts made under this account, are my own personal oppinion only. They have no conection to, nor do they represent any view or oppinion held by Groundspeak, or any Site Volunteer for Groundspeak.

August 17, 2011

Some 26 discovered logs prior to MEGA Wales (and many of those were at the Meet the Dragons side Event in Perth).

Some 204 logs from one day's exposure at MEGA Wales.

Glad that the Golden Ammo Can (and its associated coins) are now getting logged now by the wider caching community.

Whatever the outcome of discussions over the next few weeks - just make it prominent and visible to all in Cartmel.

August 17, 2011

I think the Ammo can is the UK Geocaching history developing over the years. The contents are unique and irreplaceable - I know replacement coins could possibly be recommissioned if any were stolen, but would not be the same. I would not like to take on the responsibility of hawking it from event to event.

Plus to be pedantic the mission is to go to megas so perhaps it should be in the hands of Pop Up Pirate, Mega Piratemania will be before Cartmel and has a proven record.

On it's Facebook page, 56 people have stated they like it. - I had to 'like' it to allow me to add a post to the thread

Lilian

The cacher of Mollyjak

August 17, 2011

Dave can I just point out one or two things and then I promise I will go away and let you all get on with it..

Firstly nobody has ever made an issue out of the money paid but it would have been respectful to ask the people who set the mission for their opinions for it regardless.

Secondly there is a whole page dedicated to the G.A.C in the very nice program provided by the Welsh Committee at the last Mega in the supporters pack. Are you now telling me they only sold 5 or 10 (only kidding) but I guess that’s a few hundred people who are now aware of it, so perhaps a little more than 1%. Also the Mega Wales did a splendid job of displaying the G.A.C at both the Mega and on the Mega Wales Web page and a jolly good number have visited that I’m sure.

Well at last you have now asked the correct persons involved to give an opinion so its now over to them and I personally don’t really care if someone turns it into a hat and wears it to events but I am now glad that someone has finally asked the right questions.

Kind regards as I leave the room

Tony

2.2k · August 18, 2011

Can someone please check. I could've sworn this was just meant to be a fun pointless hobby.

August 18, 2011

The GAC is "owned" acording to it's TB page by "UK Mega Event Committee"

Surely any mission change is up to that committee (the current one - NOT previos ones)

1.3k · August 18, 2011

The GAC is "owned" acording to it's TB page by "UK Mega Event Committee"

Surely any mission change is up to that committee (the current one - NOT previos ones)

I'd agree with that... it's owned by the account and the account has changed owners. Which leads me to ponder if its even possible to adopt a TB, would there been a way to prevent this?

Of course the account also owns a couple of physical caches... I want a Mega Shetlands... and I want to see the committee maintaining "their" caches is South Wales... I'll even remove the pens regularly to keep them on their toes

Edited August 18, 2011 by NattyBooshka

3.7k · August 18, 2011

Can someone please check. I could've sworn this was just meant to be a fun pointless hobby.

I've just checked, and you're correct.

Can someone please lob the GAC into the nearest river and push all the committees and officials in after it?

1.3k · August 18, 2011

Can someone please check. I could've sworn this was just meant to be a fun pointless hobby.

I've just checked, and you're correct.

Can someone please lob the GAC into the nearest river and push all the committees and officials in after it?

By your command.

3.7k · August 18, 2011

I'm not entirely unfeeling. Throw them a lifebelt to fight over as well.

1.3k · August 18, 2011

I'm not entirely unfeeling. Throw them a lifebelt to fight over as well.

Got it... The one with the puncture and broken strap?

6.1k · August 18, 2011

...Throw them a lifebelt to fight over as well.

But what if the original lifebelt owners don't want it to get wet? They'll have to be consulted first.

1.3k · August 18, 2011

...Throw them a lifebelt to fight over as well.

But what if the original lifebelt owners don't want it to get wet? They'll have to be consulted first.

lmao.

Ok... We need to form some sort of committee to sort such issues out...

August 18, 2011

Can i be vice chairwomen as i have completly NO IDEA what is going on....I just wanna no if im gonna see the gold ammo can next year at MEGA NW ??!?!?!?! :unsure:

6.1k · August 18, 2011

Can i be vice chairwomen as i have completly NO IDEA what is going on....I just wanna no if im gonna see the gold ammo can next year at MEGA NW ??!?!?!?!

Well someone suggested turning the ammo can into a hat, so you could turn it into a miners hat and wear it down t' pit (that is a pit head gear behind you in your piccy isn't it???)

August 18, 2011

Can i be vice chairwomen as i have completly NO IDEA what is going on....I just wanna no if im gonna see the gold ammo can next year at MEGA NW ??!?!?!?!

Well someone suggested turning the ammo can into a hat, so you could turn it into a miners hat and wear it down t' pit (that is a pit head gear behind you in your piccy isn't it???)

But can I only wear it on my head once a year or on Tuesdays??

6.2k · August 18, 2011

As a promotional tool, the 'special' nature of the GAC is self-defeating.

If it goes to standard events, it stops being an exclusive feature of Annual UK Megas (as that's how the TB page is being interpreted, I think) and therefor would no longer be special. It's just a gold box. It's not intrinsically special. It's where it can be seen which makes it special.
If it goes to all and sundry events and - heaven forbid - something was to happen to it or its contents then the caching community would be rightly angry.
It was mostly ignored at the 'Press the Button' event, suggesting it's not a great promotional tool anyway.
Offering to buy it is no solution to the issue; the people who intended it to go from UK Mega to UK Mega are the rightful owners of the box and everyone who put contents in to travel with it should have a say on its future too. If a committee decided to raffle it and its contents, would that be fair? No, because that wouldn't reflect the wishes of the people who created and stocked it either.

My advice, for what it's worth: Get a Geolympix Geoff. Signal worked for Groundspeak...

3.3k · August 18, 2011

To remove the arguments, so that how the G.A.C. is moved from one Mega to the next is decided soley by the Cuurent Holder of the Annual UK Mega Account, if the Weston Committee, will please advice me the total cost of the Ammo can, TB Tag and Paint. I will refund them. That way there will be no issues involved anymore.

So I personally challange all of the Weston Committee, to publicly state, whether they wish the G.A.C is brought to the Attention of a higher % of the community. Or do they just wish 5-10 UK cachers to have a interest in it! Sorry please do not fall back on the it should only go to the Annual UK Mega Event, please express a specific opinion. Higher % of the Community, or just 5-10 UK cachers.

I was at the committee meeting where the Golden Ammo Can was decided. There might be minutes somewhere, but I'm sure we're capable of commenting here and now.

Firstly, I don't think this is a financial issue. Secondly, I disagree with your limiting of the options. The Golden Ammo Can was created to go to Mega Events. It didn't go to any events prior to Weston, Perth respected our wishes on this. I didn't take an interest in Mega Wales so lost track of it, but I think the golden can was also kept pretty much for the Mega. 3 out of 3 event committees went with our intentions, it would be a shame if the next committee decided to cheapen the exclusivity of the golden ammo can and let it out more often.

August 18, 2011

the G.A.C clearly states "to travel to megas" not to "travel to megas...oh and stop at every show along the way"

i agree, if the comittee cannot uphold the GAC's mission it should be handed back to its owners.

Molyjak said it very succinctly, its about respect.

"pimping" the Golden Ammo Can about is wrong, it shouldn't be used as a publicity tool, because thats not why it was created, give it back and stop making a sows ear out of something special.

August 18, 2011

Hows about keeping the original GAC and its contents as an item which only appears at Megas and is thus safe from getting lost/stolen/contents lost/stolen and having a lookalike without contents and without a tracking number on it purely for publicity purposes at events selected by the current committee. Just a thought but it's probably no good.

Or even put a tracking number on the lookalike but state clearly in the description that it is a replica and that to discover the original you have to attend a Mega. Some sport trophies have replicas for use in less than secure environments where the original is very valuable. Thus the original is more secure and its concept if I read it correctly is maintained, that is to travel from Mega to Mega.

Edited August 18, 2011 by C0lin

1.3k · August 18, 2011

It's NOT about the golden ammo can, it's about the eggy bread!

August 19, 2011

To remove the arguments, so that how the G.A.C. is moved from one Mega to the next is decided soley by the Cuurent Holder of the Annual UK Mega Account, if the Weston Committee, will please advice me the total cost of the Ammo can, TB Tag and Paint. I will refund them. That way there will be no issues involved anymore.

So I personally challange all of the Weston Committee, to publicly state, whether they wish the G.A.C is brought to the Attention of a higher % of the community. Or do they just wish 5-10 UK cachers to have a interest in it! Sorry please do not fall back on the it should only go to the Annual UK Mega Event, please express a specific opinion. Higher % of the Community, or just 5-10 UK cachers.

I was also on the Weston 2009 committee and have a copy of our committee meeting dialogue when the initial idea was discussed. Seven of the eight committee members were present for the discussion.

We wanted to do a handover/welcome to Mega Scotland at the close of the Weston-super-Mega and felt that by actually passing something symbolic over it would form a bit of history of the UK Mega Events. Also, as the coins were limited (especially the 'volunteer/helper ones') we felt it would be a nice idea that they were available for people to see in the future. Several ideas were discussed, before we came up with the idea of the Golden Ammo Can which was also an obvious receptacle to hold the items.

As we wanted this to become part of the UK Mega Event's history we contacted the Harrogate committee who donated a pair of the 1st Mega coins and an item from their supporters pack. We then decided to make it trackable so that it could be registered against the UK Mega Event Committee account.

The ammo can was donated by a member of the Weston 2009 committee. The cost of the Travel Bug and the paint came out of the Mega funds.

My personal feelings on the Golden Ammo can:

1) To stay secure (and intact)

2) Be available at all future UK Mega Events (i.e. those under the UK Mega account)

3) Collect the 'official' coins for each UK Mega Events.

4) Only available to discover at UK Mega Events.

I agree with the posts that say it is going to lose its exclusivity if it is taken to lots of events and therefore would prefer to just see it at the actual Mega Event itself (and possibly the 'launch' party)

August 19, 2011

What a lot of fuss about not much.

Simple - make it only discoverable at the Mega, before hand use it for publicity at any pre-events.

"Lose it's exclusivity" - please, don't make me laugh! Seriously, are people going to travel hundreds of miles just to see "the fabled Gold can"? If that's the best reason for holding a Mega, better think again. If it only ever appears at the Mega, most people probably won't even see it. If it's used as publicity beforehand, it may build up some fantasy mythical status. Otherwise, hardly anyone knows about it or cares.

I really can't see how using it (or a replica) to promote the Mega is in anyway dissing the original concept. As long as it can only be logged at the Mega, it's done it's job. Otherwise, what's the point?

My 2p.

August 19, 2011

Marty travelling to that Earthcache ended in tonsilitus cause of the pouring rain....and to top if off i couldnt even get inside the place to have a look around :mad:

Im not down with mining but i suppose it could be made into a cool cap (maybe even with a Leeds united badge on the front :lol: )

August 19, 2011

Maple Leaf, thank you very much on your reply.

Please don't see our silence so far on this matter as defiance, our committee has a policy of trying to avoid getting led into "heated debates" in this forum.

We will have our own sub forum on the Groundspeak servers soon though.

We have been listening, and most of the suggestions made here have already been considered by us before they were made.

I'm confident we are close to a solution that will suit all those interested.

Jamie (2008 and 2012)

Golden Ammo Can

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