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what did I find?


DukeOfURL01

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I was out benchmarking today, and one of the ones I was looking for was KS1007. I found a mark nearby, and it had the proper inscriptions, but doesn't match the description in the datasheet, and it's not like any benchmark I've ever seen before. Please, tell me what you think.

 

Does this match? If not, what did I find? I don't even know what agency it might be.

 

IMG_0429.jpg

 

IMG_0431.jpg

 

IMG_0430.jpg

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The agency of that disk is United States (Army) Engineering Department which is now COE or Corps Of Engineers (US Army). That disk doesn't appear to be iron or in a headwall of a culvert.

 

I would tend to agree. I wonder why it's got the same marking of 743, but without the 'R though.

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I think that you found this one:

 

KS1006''THE FOUR LEGS OF THE TOWER. A CORPS OF ENGINEERS, U.S. ARMY,

KS1006''STANDARD CAP, STAMPED Q 743 AND SCREWED ON THE TOP OF A 3-INCH

KS1006''IRON PIPE REINFORCED WITH CONCRETE AND PROJECTING 1 FOOT ABOVE

KS1006''GROUND.

 

The ? 743 was likely stamped on in 1944 when the other nearby '743' points set.

 

kayakbird

Edited by kayakbird
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I can't seem to find any indication that it has been archived, it's just not there. Or at least, it doesn't show up on the scaredycat map.

 

Below is a portion of the current NGS file for Butte County, California. Note that Quebec & Romeo have the same L/L. Can you delete the top map pin from whatever map program that you are using? MEL

 

|....|KS1003|. 1|88/ADJUSTED|N392952......|W1213447......|D...|B 146

 

|....|KS1004|. 1|88/ADJUSTED|N392953......|W1213604......|C...|S 743

 

|....|KS1005|. 1|88/ADJUSTED|N392954......|W1213650......|C...|P 743

 

|....|KS1006|. 1|88/ADJUSTED|N392944......|W1213650......|D...|Q 743

 

|....|KS1007|. 1|88/ADJUSTED|N392944......|W1213650......|C...|R 743

 

|....|KS1008|. 1|88/ADJUSTED|N392952......|W1213710......|C...|C 146

 

|....|KS1010|. 1|88/ADJUSTED|N392954......|W1213811......|C...|N 847 RESET

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The 1998 overhead photo of the airport looks pretty much the same as the current satellite view. If I picked the right bldg for the "... Main Airport Office and Hanger ..." then I put KS1007 here: 39.494967°, -121.615801° on Google Earth.

 

That doesn't really look like it's a taxiway separate from the tie down area but there is an intriguing shadow and possible alluvial deposit right at that shadow.

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I think what happened here is a carry over of the L/L from Q 743 onto R 743, causing a 0.11 mile error; but the calls

in the STATION DESCRIPTION'S seem to be right on. Hopefully you can get permission to check out

billwallace's L/L and find KS1007 there; or at least evidence of a culvert headwall.

 

Above measurement is from Google Earth - which I seldom use - and I believe that I can also see a lot of newer tiedown pavement and a replacement strip of a different texture running at right angle across the original taxiway.

 

kayakbird

Edited by kayakbird
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Hard for me to tell from the photo, but that first character looks more like an O (oh) than a Q. There is no O 743 in the NGS database, but it seems likely, or at least plausible, that a mark with that designation was set.

I have no idea where I got this thought from, but didn't they NOT use the 'O' in order to avoid confusion with a '0'? Or did I just pull that out of could-stand-to-lose-a-few-pounds air?

 

--Me.

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Hard for me to tell from the photo, but that first character looks more like an O (oh) than a Q. There is no O 743 in the NGS database, but it seems likely, or at least plausible, that a mark with that designation was set.

I have no idea where I got this thought from, but didn't they NOT use the 'O' in order to avoid confusion with a '0'? Or did I just pull that out of could-stand-to-lose-a-few-pounds air?

 

--Me.

That sounded right when I read it ... until I searched for some O-something designations. There are many, such as MY0338 (O 1) in Massachusetts, AH0720 (O 46) in Texas, GV2454(O 17) in Virginia, and many other variations.

 

-ArtMan-

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Yes, a lot of people get confused by Oh's and Zeros. Generally, an Oh will be almost perfectly round, while a Zero will will be more oblong shaped, wider top-to-bottom than left-to-right. Many places don't use the letter Oh in their serials, to avoid this kind of confusion. One of them is VIN numbers on cars I think. Generally, a good way to go when in doubt is if the character in question has a number to the left, and/or right of it, it is probably a Zero, where if there is a letter left, and/or right of it, it is probably an Oh. Spaces count.

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Hard for me to tell from the photo, but that first character looks more like an O (oh) than a Q. There is no O 743 in the NGS database, but it seems likely, or at least plausible, that a mark with that designation was set.

 

Maybe wishful thinking, but I think that I can see the tail of the Quebec, maybe added to an Oscar with the corner of a chisel, in the closeup of the pipe cap. Maybe another shot will be posted?? kayakbird

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Hard for me to tell from the photo, but that first character looks more like an O (oh) than a Q. There is no O 743 in the NGS database, but it seems likely, or at least plausible, that a mark with that designation was set.

 

Maybe wishful thinking, but I think that I can see the tail of the Quebec, maybe added to an Oscar with the corner of a chisel, in the closeup of the pipe cap. Maybe another shot will be posted?? kayakbird

You may also find confusion between the number "1" and the letter "I".

 

Two points to remember:

1) the permanent part of the disk is engraved, not stamped so comparisons of fonts, serifs, etc. will not be helpful.

2) it helps to compare the questionable stamped character with another on the disk or on another disk set at the same time and place (such as reference marks).

 

I also find a curious confusion of the number "3" with the number "5" when they used a highly serifed font popular at one point.

I'll look for some examples and post them here when I find them.

 

Here's one:

 

1fd7a88e-1e98-4ed8-a4c9-f236f81c508b.jpg

 

Tell me, does that say 1938 or 1958?

 

Answer Here

 

There are worse ones out there using that stamping set with the flat topped 3 with the down serif.

Edited by Papa-Bear-NYC
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All to often these disk were stamped and set by people who might have been on the job for the first day. In 1985 we were working in area that NGS was leveling and we found mistakes in stampings on their marks and some that were out of sequence weather intentional or just mistakenly used the wrong disk. We even found one that was not stamped and when we contacted them about it they asked us to go out and stamp it. They had a bunch of college interns doing most of the work and only 2 experienced techs in the field.

 

To provide the additional staff needed, and to replace employees who joined the armed forces, many changes in personnel were made during the war. Since very few experienced persons were available for employment, considerable effort was made to formulate a program of training and in so arranging duties that a new employee could begin productive work with a minimum amount of training. In most cases new employees were persons not subject to induction. These were women, physically handicapped men, married men with families, and personnel made available through the Civilian Public Service Camps, commonly known as conscientious objectors. The latter were employed on geodetic control surveys in the field."

Edited by Z15
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